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Franco Lolan
05 Nov 04,, 12:23
will F-35 have a laser? I think it was being developed by a British company; however, will they incorporate it or is it just on the drawing board.
The f-35 has gotten a bad rap, but won't a laser that can intercept incoming missiles make it incredibly awesome?
any details on laser, the project, f-35 etc.:

Injecteer
05 Nov 04,, 12:56
will F-35 have a laser?

would be nice, of course to see such a plane.
But the smallest airborne laser emitter I heard of needed a Boeing747 as a platform. :biggrin:

So, I seriously doubt, that the plane, which is under development now, would be designed for the technology of 2030

Terran empire
05 Nov 04,, 21:03
would be nice, of course to see such a plane.
But the smallest airborne laser emitter I heard of needed a Boeing747 as a platform. :biggrin:

So, I seriously doubt, that the plane, which is under development now, would be designed for the technology of 2030 the smallest projection i heard for the size of an ABL is that we might be able to fit it on a osprey in a decade or two

Horrido
05 Nov 04,, 22:15
There is research being conducted to eventually fit a laser to the F/A-22 and F-35, planned for around 2015. The laser on the YAL-1 is a large and very powerful chemical laser for long-range shots described as being in the "megawatt" class. The laser on the F-35 would be an electrically-powered infra-red laser of 100 kw range.

Here's a link:

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992585

http://www.you.com.au/news/1275.htm

Kozzy
06 Nov 04,, 02:39
If it does incorporate a laser. It will probably be a "dazzler" that blinds the missile's seeker head.

Franco Lolan
06 Nov 04,, 04:41
that would be nice. it would make missiles lose electronics and go ballistic, correct?

Horrido
06 Nov 04,, 22:10
No, these are lasers capable of destroying other aircraft and soft-skinned vehicles.

Franco Lolan
07 Nov 04,, 15:50
nice! so they could completely waste any incoming missiles?

The Chap
08 Nov 04,, 05:40
No. There are by all accounts several varient options being considered by the USAF:
First being a modified cannon shell which will fit existing guns, mounts etc. but with (one imagines) a non-imaging "opticalbarrell" utillising a disposable cham. shell, with most prob HF/?
Next is a dedicated system integrated into the turbines via an intermediate gen. This would almost certainly involve either a free-electron or more probably "pumped" solid state laser.

Skin effects are what will do the dammage in the above cases (see other posts) :) Personally my cash is on guided shells or electromangnetically accelerated ord.

-{SpoonmaN}-
08 Nov 04,, 07:04
Honestly, I doubt that we'll be seeing any laser-armed fighters in the field for quite a while yet.

Injecteer
08 Nov 04,, 08:51
If it does incorporate a laser. It will probably be a "dazzler" that blinds the missile's seeker head.

I don't think, so...

First of all, the links posted by Horrido imform, that
- the laser is IR, which means, it's Maser
- one of the main problems is heat dissipation. (about 1 MW for 1 kW emitter, or even more, as the efficiency can be less than 10%)
- the power to supply the l/m-aser. U must have at least 1 MW generator

plus, the recoil time... U need to fill the capacitors with the energy, u need to dissipate the vast amount of heat, maybe some sort of re-calibration is also needed...

the lasers, which the existing technologies allow to build, are used only for range measurments (usually IR) and in some cases for blinding, which is not "officialy" permitted by all organizations, but who cares? :cool:

so, I'd say, that the combat laser, which could be installed on a fighter plane till 2020, is just a dummy or it has more "peacefull" application

Terran empire
08 Nov 04,, 09:09
i am with him on this my money says 2030 but by 2020 i think osprey size will be in the field

Franco Lolan
08 Nov 04,, 23:17
even if only a skin melting laser, it would make missiles go ballistic. that would negate the superiority of fighters such as su30 to the f35 most likely

The Chap
09 Nov 04,, 04:02
Apart from the unfortunate fact that the prototype is due to be tested within three years. And I do not mean the Jumbo-jet version. :)

The Chap
09 Nov 04,, 04:06
Now all of you go and find the bloody book that I mentioned elsewhere. If indeed you are interested in DEW's. Hurumph! :)

Injecteer
11 Nov 04,, 09:00
even if only a skin melting laser, it would make missiles go ballistic.

who told U that? U think, the missiles' heads are made of paper? :biggrin:
I seriously doubt, that any skin-melting laser/maser might burn thru missiles coating and preserve enuff power to damage the homing head, which in turn has a sort of back-up circuits :cool:

ok, therer's a way of the use of a maser, where in front of an airborn object a cloud of ionized air (or plazma) is created, and the object gets destroyed by the flatter.

Originally, that was USSR's (or Russia's) project, which needed alot of single microwave emitters to form a GRID. Thier beams were meant to concentrate in the same point of airspace, thus a plazma cloud is created.

So, given, then each of those emitters can have reasonable size, they can be installed on fighter planes instead of their radars, and then a dozen or more of them can create a needed cloud...

tried to find some info on that in google, but failed :frown:

intelgurl
11 Nov 04,, 19:02
Gentlemen, if you don't mind a lady chiming in, I would like to contribute to this discussion.

It is absolutely true that Lockheed has been considering the possibility of employing a solid state 100 kw laser on the F-35. (100kw is the minimum threshold to be a weapon according to sources at Lockheed).

This solid state laser would be housed directly behind the cockpit in the bay where the lift fan would be on the F-35B (STOVL) version.
The area where the STOVL lift fan resides will not only provide adequate room for the laser unit but it's positioning allows the laser to utilize the lift fan's drive shaft which produces over 27,000 horsepower, providing more than adequate power for the 100kw solid state laser.

The laser's purpose if it is indeed employed will initially be defensive, destroying any incoming surface to air or air to air munitions as much as 2-3 kilometers away before reaching the DEW armed F-35. It would eventually be able to offensively engage aerial targets such as cruise missiles and enemy aircraft, as well as ground targets like anti-aircraft missile sites and ground vehicles.

Lockheed has looked at concepts of these lasers from TRW, Boeing, Textron and Raytheon. Raytheon's solid state laser program seems to be the best bet for this application due to it's superior optics (beam quality), compact size and Raytheon's advances in cooling technologies.

Current development has this solid state laser program at around the 50 kw range, with cooling and maximization of power to the laser diodes providing a simultaneous hurdle.
It seems that the weapons grade diodes can only operate at approx 10% efficiency due to cooling issues. When the cooling issues are overcome then the diodes will be able to operate at optimum performance.

As a side note, Raytheon can certainly make a solid state laser right now that is 100kw, the problem is that you would have to have 10 times the diodes operating at 10% power to generate a 100 kw beam. This would of course mean a much larger, heavier unit that costs nearly 10 times as much - not the sort of thing you could put onboard an aircraft that's already on an Uncle Sam imposed diet.

I hope this answers more questions than it generates...

Franco Lolan
11 Nov 04,, 23:21
nice post man

Bill
12 Nov 04,, 06:37
"nice post man"

That would be Ma'am.

BTW, excellent post m'lady.

Franco Lolan
12 Nov 04,, 12:32
good call.
nice post ma'm