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smilingassassin
05 Nov 04,, 08:36
What do you all think of these various quotes?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3978191.stm


Tony Blair, British Prime Minister


Tony Blair: "We must be relentless against terror"
The election of President Bush is an event of genuine significance right around the world. It is of special significance for Britain. America and the UK have a unique bond through our shared history and tradition.

President Bush's re-election comes at a critical time. A world that is fractured and uncertain must be brought together.

The need to revitalise the Middle East peace process is the single most pressing political challenge in our world today.

Jacques Chirac, French President

In the name of France and for my own personal part, I would like to express my heartiest congratulations for your re-election.

It is in a spirit of dialogue, esteem and mutual respect that our co-operation must continue to evolve, our common fight against terrorism and the joint actions which we are engaged in to promote liberty and democracy must continue to develop.

We can only find satisfactory solutions to the numerous challenges with which we are confronted today through a close transatlantic partnership.

Hu Jintao, Chinese President

Both China and the United States are great countries and share a wide range of common interests and basis for co-operation.

I look forward to continuing to work together with you to further promote the development of the constructive co-operative relations between China and the United States.

Gerhard Schroeder, German Chancellor

The world stands before great challenges at the beginning of your second term: international terrorism, the danger of weapons of mass destruction, regional crises - but also poverty, climate change and epidemics threaten our security and stability.

These challenges can only be mastered together.

I will continue the good and close co-operation that we have. This is in the interests of the United States as well as those of Germany and Europe.

Javier Solana, EU foreign affairs chief

Together, Europe and the United States face many critical challenges in the years ahead. As in the past, our best hope for success lies in common action.

Jan Peter Balkenende, Dutch Prime Minister and EU President

The United States and the European Union are linked by strong cultural, economic and political ties, and by our shared values. This makes us each other's natural and indispensable partners.

Vladimir Putin, Russian President


Putin: "Right decision"

I've known Mr Bush for four years as a rational and persistent man.

I think international terrorism had a goal of frustrating Mr Bush's victory in the election, and Bin Laden's statement in the final phase of the US presidential race showed it in bold relief.

I can only feel joy that the American people did not allow ithemelves to be intimidated, and made the most sensible decision.

Hosni Mubarak, Egyptian President

I am pleased to congratulate you on your re-election as US president for a second term.

We hope that Mr Bush's new administration, together with the European Union, can bring influence to bear to arrive at a peaceful development in the [Middle East] region.

Mohammed Rashid, aide to Yasser Arafat

President Arafat welcomed Bush's victory and voiced the hope that his new mandate and the confidence placed in him by the American people will give new momentum to the Middle East peace process.

Romano Prodi, European Commission President

My warm congratulations to President Bush on his re-election after a difficult ballot, whose outcome was far from sure.

As the country's leader in the most dramatic time of its history, he has had to deal with the horrifying onslaught of terrorism.

I hope his second term will see the United States and the whole world enjoy the political stabilisation and the guarantee of collective security we have all done our utmost to ensure.

Vaclav Klaus, Czech President

He symbolises America's best traditions: the love of freedom, optimism, individualism, a liberal economic environment and conservative values that are also close to my heart.

Iyad Allawi, interim Prime Minister of Iraq

Whoever wins will be our friend. The United States liberated us from a dictator from a very long period of war and agony. We will always be grateful to America for what it has done and continues to do.

Silvio Berlusconi, Italian Prime Minister

The continuation of Bush in American politics makes things easier for us.

As for international policy, Bush will continue with the policy that assigns the United States the role of defender and promoter of freedom and democracy.

Ehud Olmert, Israeli Deputy Prime Minister

Mr Kerry would have been a very friendly president to Israel as he proved to be for a long time in the Senate. Now that Mr Bush is elected, we are very happy and we congratulate the American people for their choice.

Alexander Downer, Australian Foreign Minister

From our point of view, the Bush administration is a known quantity.


Australians watched in Sydney as results came in

We've had a very good relationship with them the last four years. I'm sure we'll be able to keep building on that over the next four.

But, look, frankly, if Senator Kerry somehow miraculously comes through here or if in any case he had been elected, we would have worked pretty well with them as well.

Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, Spanish Prime Minister

I would like to express the desire of the Spanish government to contribute to a relationship based on efficient and constructive co-operation with the government of the United States, with President Bush.

Moody Awori, Kenyan Vice-President

I am a little bit apprehensive because the first term of Bush, he had come in as a lame duck.

Now it appears as if he is winning very convincingly. To me, I think we are going to see more dictatorship on an international scale. We are going to see more extremism come out of there.

We are going to see even more isolationism where America will not bother about the United Nations. To me that is a very sad affair.

Aleksander Kwasniewski, Polish President

From the point of view of Poland's interests, further co-operation with George W Bush is good news. I hope that this will also mean increased activity in bilateral affairs, as they lacked sufficient engagement.

Jesus Perez, Venezuelan Foreign Minister

We will hope that in this second mandate we can improve our relations.

We are dancing the tango. When you are dancing the tango and your toe is stepped on, hurting your toe, you complain. If it is stepped on harder, you complain again. There's a whole game, but we are prepared to continue dancing the tango.

Confed999
05 Nov 04,, 23:58
The Spanish Prime Minister can kiss my fuzzy white ***.

Leader
06 Nov 04,, 07:12
Vaclav Klaus, Czech President

He symbolises America's best traditions: the love of freedom, optimism, individualism, a liberal economic environment and conservative values that are also close to my heart.

I could not have stated it better.

smilingassassin
06 Nov 04,, 07:20
I could not have stated it better.

How about Moody Awori the Kenyan Vice-President's comments?! Talk about a sour puss!

Leader
06 Nov 04,, 07:28
How about Moody Awori the Kenyan Vice-President's comments?! Talk about a sour puss!

He doesn't even make any sense. We bypassed the UN because it was useless not because of isolationism or "global dictatorship." :rolleyes:

Leader
06 Nov 04,, 07:31
Jesus Perez, Venezuelan Foreign Minister

We will hope that in this second mandate we can improve our relations.

We are dancing the tango. When you are dancing the tango and your toe is stepped on, hurting your toe, you complain. If it is stepped on harder, you complain again. There's a whole game, but we are prepared to continue dancing the tango.

What the hell is he talking about?

smilingassassin
07 Nov 04,, 00:46
I think he's trying to say he's willing to improve relations, wipe the slate clean as it were with America.

Leader
07 Nov 04,, 02:48
I think he's trying to say he's willing to improve relations, wipe the slate clean as it were with America.

Yeah I got that part, and then he went off in the deep waters of analogy.

Gio
07 Nov 04,, 03:16
Maybe it doesn't translate well into English?

Julie
07 Nov 04,, 03:39
sounds like to me he doesn't know how to dance the tango. :biggrin:

Ray
07 Nov 04,, 03:56
It takes two to tango. :)

Kipruss
07 Nov 04,, 08:14
Those quotes are mainly diplomatic speak. When someone wins you congratulate them whether you like them or (in many of those cases) you don't like them. The proof will be when the next time Bush does something else stupid and violent the leaders don't give him any support.

smilingassassin
07 Nov 04,, 08:17
Heres a challenge for you Kipruss, try useing either Bush or stupid in a post but not both, otherwise do us a favor and stop posting this kinda crap.

Kipruss
07 Nov 04,, 08:25
I'm not inclined to do you any favours.

smilingassassin
07 Nov 04,, 09:17
So your not up to the challenge either?

porsteamboy
07 Nov 04,, 09:29
What the hell is he talking about?He is talking about the CIA trying to over throw his Government. Bush knows what he is talking about, maybe he don't, since he gets bad intelligence!

Fonnicker
07 Nov 04,, 17:21
Heres a challenge for you Kipruss, try useing either Bush or stupid in a post but not both, otherwise do us a favor and stop posting this kinda crap.


Why don't you apply the same rule to yourself and stop degrading those who voted for Kerry.

Ray
07 Nov 04,, 18:20
Smiling,

Bush's intelligence quotient is not very remarkable. He had nothing to say excepting that inane and imbecelic statement of 'it is hard work'. He was an ambarrassment to all Bush supporters including me. Damn it, everything in life is hard work. Only a rich man;'s son or an English Lord can have a ball. Or even Aga Khan with his followers' money.

Bush messed up the first debate and came out 'even' in the next two.

His first debate permitted Kerry to look as a contender even though Kerry had no reason to appear so.

Unless Bush is surrounded or prompted by his 'advisors', he is a babe in the woods.

Many will not agree with me, but heart searching will reveal the truth.

Bush was such a disppointment in the first debate that I thought he gave Kerry a chance and Kerry was a vacillator!

There is no exit policy from Iraq. Neither Bush nor Kerry can organise one. Idiots in the media are unnecessarily rasing the bogey of 'Christians vs Islam' with all that crap of 3 Gs and Born Agains. This is scary.

All I can say since in India we are affected by the Islamic terrorists and pinkos, we are up a gum tree; because of the silly media, the mullahmen will have a ball and justify their relgious war against all and sundry.

Like Europe, Indian can't go gung ho as we have a large Moslem population who are restive and who want to maintain their religious identity and their customs and brazenly flaunt it like provocation.

This has also allowed religious fundamentalism of all hues to show their ugly side in India.

Such a sad state of affairs.

tarek
07 Nov 04,, 19:09
Ray

PLease do not give Mullahmen and the "restive" Muslims so much credit it reeks of making excuses.

In mullahistan (Pakistan) we have a generation of making such excuses and look at what it has done to us, we hang by a thread. God forbid, Musharraf is assasinated, you can kiss Pakistan goodbye.

Instead of making excuses and empowering the mullahmen, they ought to be confronted, I don't mean genocide or something like that, but where they present idiot ideas, well, those ideas need to be confronted, regardless of whether they from the mad mullah or the mad pundits or the mad bishops. Lets not lose ourselves making excuses for our own comfortable inaction.

Ray
07 Nov 04,, 19:18
Ray

PLease do not give Mullahmen and the "restive" Muslims so much credit it reeks of making excuses.

In mullahistan (Pakistan) we have a generation of making such excuses and look at what it has done to us, we hang by a thread. God forbid, Musharraf is assasinated, you can kiss Pakistan goodbye.

Instead of making excuses and empowering the mullahmen, they ought to be confronted, I don't mean genocide or something like that, but where they present idiot ideas, well, those ideas need to be confronted, regardless of whether they from the mad mullah or the mad pundits or the mad bishops. Lets not lose ourselves making excuses for our own comfortable inaction.

Isn't religion in governace showing the world over?

Why blame anyone?

Fortunately, religion lost out in India.

Leader
07 Nov 04,, 19:55
He is talking about the CIA trying to over throw his Government. Bush knows what he is talking about, maybe he don't, since he gets bad intelligence!

Maybe you could provide proof, and a reason Venezuela’s quasi-dictatorship shouldn't be overthrown.

Confed999
07 Nov 04,, 21:24
Bush's intelligence quotient is not very remarkable.
If it's not, the rest of us are doing pretty bad. After all, he is the President.

Maybe you could provide proof, and a reason Venezuela’s quasi-dictatorship shouldn't be overthrown.
Amen...

smilingassassin
07 Nov 04,, 22:00
Why don't you apply the same rule to yourself and stop degrading those who voted for Kerry.

..and where in this post did I do that? If I sneeze in your general dirrection its degrading. Get a grip. If Bush truely is as stupid as you say, it says alot about the rest of the country dosn't it? I for one don't think the U.S. is full of idiots and i certainly don't think any President is an idiot.

If you don't want a flame responce, come up with an intellegent reason why Bush is the wrong guy, leave the "stupid Bush" comments for the 5 year olds.

Fonnicker
08 Nov 04,, 01:11
..and where in this post did I do that? If I sneeze in your general dirrection its degrading. Get a grip. If Bush truely is as stupid as you say, it says alot about the rest of the country dosn't it? I for one don't think the U.S. is full of idiots and i certainly don't think any President is an idiot.

If you don't want a flame responce, come up with an intellegent reason why Bush is the wrong guy, leave the "stupid Bush" comments for the 5 year olds.


I'm just saying that you continue to lump all those who voted for Kerry into one group and you do not paint that group pleasantly. You comments are very "in your face". You should not be surprised that people like myself have a hard time communicating with you when you make it perfectly clear that we are wrong in our opinions, uneducated in our statements and to use your favorite term, "arrogant." I have read many threads where people that differ in opinion give at least some credit to opposing viewpoints; that give a little leeway. You do not. It is clear to me that you are right and there is no other way to look at the world.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 04:56
I wonder why is Venezuela a quasi dictatorship.

Leader
08 Nov 04,, 05:33
I wonder why is Venezuela a quasi dictatorship.

:redface: Upon farther review, Venezuela's government is a republic, a rather unpopular one at that. The president, Chávez, seems to be in some trouble because the economy is in the crapper. There is a recall drive going on to kick Chavez out of office.

smilingassassin
08 Nov 04,, 06:50
I'm just saying that you continue to lump all those who voted for Kerry into one group and you do not paint that group pleasantly. You comments are very "in your face". You should not be surprised that people like myself have a hard time communicating with you when you make it perfectly clear that we are wrong in our opinions, uneducated in our statements and to use your favorite term, "arrogant." I have read many threads where people that differ in opinion give at least some credit to opposing viewpoints; that give a little leeway. You do not. It is clear to me that you are right and there is no other way to look at the world.


Most who voted for Kerry voted against Bush simply for change, not because Kerry had an outstanding platform, but for change. Ironically that vote to change leaders is the only change Liberals are content with. That fear mongering Bush gets accused of, would have been nice before 9/11, but now when men like Bush tell it like it is, its fear mongering. Liberals always state that we can expect another attack, but when Bush states it, its fear mongering.

Liberals would like to continue to cozy up with the currupt elements in the UN. They would like to continue to egnore dictators like Saddam. Liberals would like to egnore history and continue to appease dictators to prevent war. Bush refuses to do all of the this and yet ironically we need a change.

Lets talk about Saddam, the efforts involving peacefull efforts to disarm him involved:

1700 inspectors conducting 1200 inspections in 18 months.

UNSCUM conducting 250 inspection in 7 years

UNMOVIC and IAEA conducting 0 inspections in 4 years.

Invading was the only way to verify that Saddam was disarming, UNMOVIC and the IAEA would have been playing cat and mouse for another ten years which is fine with Liberals, but not fine to those who take the threat seriously, however when those on the right state this they are labeled "war mongers".
France, Germany and Russia all had oil deals via the UN with Saddam. A UN that was supposed to DISARM Saddam not make deals with him.

Add that in with public statements that we are loosing the war on Terrorism and yes I do have a hard time comunicateing with people considered to be liberals, people who do not take a look at the big picture.

As for whos right or wrong I think you suffer from mirror image thinking, I state your wrong therefore to you I think I'm right. I've never claimed that I alone am right.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 07:41
Leader and Smiling,

I know Smiling you are a Canadian. But, notwithstanding.

Since the 'fear' aspect has been brought in I am joining issues. It is jsut for debate because it matter not how any other country runs its affairs or how its citizens think. It is their right and prerogative.

The US is brought up with the shining examples of Superman, Batman. Mr America, Wonder Woman, Spiderman etc etc. All fighting evil. All keeping the US safe since everyone seems to be targetting the US ion the comic books including folks from outer space!

Therefore, the psyche is built on fear but a resolute 'warrior in shining armour' like Superman (only Red Kryption can make him weak) always lurking around to save the world!

Therefore, there is a constant search to find the 'evil guys'. First it was the Soviet Bloc, then it was China, now it is Islam. What's new? I just hope Islam nuts don't crumble, lest the new evil turns out be others and closer home (Tarek, music to your ears?).

Forget it. Nobody is evil. It is all in the mind. Osama is evil because he attacked the WTC for no good logical reason. Go kill that man.

If Saddam is evil. Let the Iraqis suffer. He is their boss. If they are chumps, bad luck.

If Iran and North Korea are making nukes and delivery systems which can target the US, do sic them.

But cut out the rhetoric of this evil jazz. It is too evangalistic and embarrasssing to the secular friends of the US.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 07:43
Upon farther review, Venezuela's government is a republic, a rather unpopular one at that. The president, Chávez, seems to be in some trouble because the economy is in the crapper. There is a recall drive going on to kick Chavez out of office.

Sorry old chap.

Carter gave him a clean chit.

Now Carter is a fundoo is it?

Gio
08 Nov 04,, 08:01
I suppose you didn't read the Wall Street Journal's analysis on the election then. Besides, you're asking the wrong people. I don't think Leader is very fond of Jimmy Carter.

smilingassassin
08 Nov 04,, 08:12
Sorry old chap.

Carter gave him a clean chit.

Now Carter is a fundoo is it?

Yes the same Carter who harboured the shaw of Iran when ailing with cancer, knowing full well he was not well liked by his people, and as a result we had the Iran hostage affair. Ironically enough Canada aided the escape of 6 embasy workers.

"The US is brought up with the shining examples of Superman, Batman. Mr America, Wonder Woman, Spiderman etc etc. All fighting evil. All keeping the US safe since everyone seems to be targetting the US ion the comic books including folks from outer space!"

You do realise that many of these "superhero's" were created as a propoganda tool?

"But cut out the rhetoric of this evil jazz. It is too evangalistic and embarrasssing to the secular friends of the US."

If that wasn't so Hollywoodistic I'd be laughing right now. Evil retorical Jazz? calling your enemy an enemy is not evil retorical Jazz, its the truth.

Leader
08 Nov 04,, 08:21
Sorry old chap.

Carter gave him a clean chit.

Now Carter is a fundoo is it?

Again with the incredibly sly posts that go way over my head.

Leader
08 Nov 04,, 08:22
I suppose you didn't read the Wall Street Journal's analysis on the election then. Besides, you're asking the wrong people. I don't think Leader is very fond of Jimmy Carter.

Worst President of the last fifty years by a mile.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 08:24
Yes the same Carter who harboured the shaw of Iran when ailing with cancer, knowing full well he was not well liked by his people, and as a result we had the Iran hostage affair. Ironically enough Canada aided the escape of 6 embasy workers.

"The US is brought up with the shining examples of Superman, Batman. Mr America, Wonder Woman, Spiderman etc etc. All fighting evil. All keeping the US safe since everyone seems to be targetting the US ion the comic books including folks from outer space!"

You do realise that many of these "superhero's" were created as a propoganda tool?

"But cut out the rhetoric of this evil jazz. It is too evangalistic and embarrasssing to the secular friends of the US."

If that wasn't so Hollywoodistic I'd be laughing right now. Evil retorical Jazz? calling your enemy an enemy is not evil retorical Jazz, its the truth.

Are you suggesting that the Aemricans are idiotic to elect idiots? Carter is an idiot?

I don't thinks so.

Jimmy Carter aspired to make Government "competent and compassionate," responsive to the American people and their expectations. His achievements were notable, but in an era of rising energy costs, mounting inflation, and continuing tensions, it was impossible for his administration to meet these high expectations.

Carter, who has rarely used his full name--James Earl Carter, Jr.--was born October 1, 1924, in Plains, Georgia. Peanut farming, talk of politics, and devotion to the Baptist faith were mainstays of his upbringing. Upon graduation in 1946 from the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, Carter married Rosalynn Smith. The Carters have three sons, John William (Jack), James Earl III (Chip), Donnel Jeffrey (Jeff), and a daughter, Amy Lynn.

After seven years' service as a naval officer, Carter returned to Plains. In 1962 he entered state politics, and eight years later he was elected Governor of Georgia. Among the new young southern governors, he attracted attention by emphasizing ecology, efficiency in government, and the removal of racial barriers.

Carter announced his candidacy for President in December 1974 and began a two-year campaign that gradually gained momentum. At the Democratic Convention, he was nominated on the first ballot. He chose Senator Walter F. Mondale of Minnesota as his running mate. Carter campaigned hard against President Gerald R. Ford, debating with him three times. Carter won by 297 electoral votes to 241 for Ford.

Carter worked hard to combat the continuing economic woes of inflation and unemployment. By the end of his administration, he could claim an increase of nearly eight million jobs and a decrease in the budget deficit, measured in percentage of the gross national product. Unfortunately, inflation and interest rates were at near record highs, and efforts to reduce them caused a short recession.

Carter could point to a number of achievements in domestic affairs. He dealt with the energy shortage by establishing a national energy policy and by decontrolling domestic petroleum prices to stimulate production. He prompted Government efficiency through civil service reform and proceeded with deregulation of the trucking and airline industries. He sought to improve the environment. His expansion of the national park system included protection of 103 million acres of Alaskan lands. To increase human and social services, he created the Department of Education, bolstered the Social Security system, and appointed record numbers of women, blacks, and Hispanics to Government jobs.

In foreign affairs, Carter set his own style. His championing of human rights was coldly received by the Soviet Union and some other nations. In the Middle East, through the Camp David agreement of 1978, he helped bring amity between Egypt and Israel. He succeeded in obtaining ratification of the Panama Canal treaties. Building upon the work of predecessors, he established full diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China and completed negotiation of the SALT II nuclear limitation treaty with the Soviet Union.

There were serious setbacks, however. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan caused the suspension of plans for ratification of the SALT II pact. The seizure as hostages of the U. S. embassy staff in Iran dominated the news during the last 14 months of the administration. The consequences of Iran's holding Americans captive, together with continuing inflation at home, contributed to Carter's defeat in 1980. Even then, he continued the difficult negotiations over the hostages. Iran finally released the 52 Americans the same day Carter left office.

Now that surely is not a biography of an imbecile! Or is it?

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 08:25
How come you are forgetting your favourite whpping boy? Remember Clinton?

Gio
08 Nov 04,, 08:26
And what was his economic record? 12% Inflation 9% Unemployment? That puts the misery level at 21.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 08:31
And of the other Presidents, irrespective of party affiliations?

Leader
08 Nov 04,, 08:33
How come you are forgetting your favourite whpping boy? Remember Clinton?

No I haven't. That would make Clinton a better president then Carter by exactly one mile. :biggrin:

Gio
08 Nov 04,, 08:35
And of the other Presidents, irrespective of party affiliations?
Nothing to rival Carter's mismanagement of the economy in post-war history.

porsteamboy
08 Nov 04,, 10:56
Maybe you could provide proof, and a reason Venezuela’s quasi-dictatorship shouldn't be overthrown.You asked a question, I provided, in my opinion, an ansewer. I don' have a firm opinion either way or care, the US Government is going to do what ever Oil Corp. dictate!Venezuela (www.csmonitor.com/2004/0308/po7sol-woam.htm)

porsteamboy
08 Nov 04,, 10:59
You asked a question, I provided, in my opinion, an ansewer. I don' have a firm opinion either way or care, the US Government is going to do what ever Oil Corp. dictate!Venezuela (www.csmonitor.com/2004/0308/po7sol-woam.htm) This link isn't working, i will send one later, sorry!

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 12:29
Leader,

So I write sly posts?

That's rich.

They go over your head?

Too bad.

Just give facts. Not your "Just believe me" type of one liners.

Give facts and I sure will change my opinion. In fact, that will educate me rather than my believing Sir Oraclish one liners.

Ray
08 Nov 04,, 12:33
Venezuela's Referendum Should Be a Wake-Up Call for the United States
by Mark Weisbrot


On a TV show in Caracas last week, supporters of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez picked up a six foot long baseball bat, taking up their baseball-loving leader's metaphor for the "home run" he would hit in the country's recall referendum. And on Sunday the ball was indeed knocked out of the park, with voters choosing to keep their president by 58 to 42 percent. It's the third time that Chavez has won the popular vote by a large margin, and it is time for the U.S. foreign policy establishment -- including the media -- to take another look at their scorecards.

The result has implications not only for Venezuela, but for the entire region. First, it shows that an anti-poverty agenda can be an electoral success in a country where the majority of people are poor -- as is true for most of Latin America. Millions of Venezuelans now have access for the first time to medical and dental care, education, literacy programs, microcredit loans, and even some land that has been redistributed in rural areas.

There is no doubt that these programs, as well as a sense of political inclusion that the country's impoverished majority did not have prior to Chavez' first election in 1998, were a huge factor in this election. It is true that recent oil price increases have made it easier for the Venezuelan government to keep its promises to share the country's oil wealth with the poor. But there are many Latin American countries that could afford similar improvements in the lives of poor people, if they were willing to make it a priority.

Of course social programs for the poor are not sustainable if the economy does not grow, and that has been the number one economic problem in Latin America for the past quarter-century. That is why Venezuela is just one of several countries where left-wing or populist candidates have won elections (Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador) or come very close (Bolivia) in the last few years. A long-term, unprecedented economic failure is driving these political developments.

From 1960-79 the region grew by 80 percent per capita, allowing for considerable improvement in overall living standards despite the worst income inequality in the world. From 1980-99, it grew by only 11 percent, or hardly at all; and for the first half of the current decade, an abysmal one percent for the whole five years. It is hard to comprehend the magnitude of this failure, which is worse than any comparable period, even including the Great Depression.

And since most of the post-1980s economic reforms -- liberalization of trade and investment flows, privatization, high interest rates and tight fiscal policies, even during recessions -- have carried "made in the USA" label, it is not surprising that the political revolt in Latin America has been against Washington's influence and the economic policies that are called "neo-liberalism" there.

So it is a mistake to try and demonize or isolate Chavez. He is only the most vocal representative of a broad swath of political leaders and social movements with the same view. Indeed, President Lula's Workers Party of Brazil, along with their largest trade union confederation and leading intellectuals and artists, took the unusual step of publicly expressing support for Chavez in the referendum.

And despite the disingenuous efforts of U.S. officials such as Roger Noriega and Otto Reich to paint Venezuela as another Cuba, the country is as free and democratic as any in Latin America -- as the world witnessed once again in this latest vote. Despite political polarization and class conflict, no reputable international human rights organization would argue that political rights or freedoms have deteriorated under the Chavez government, as compared with either previous governments or others in the Americas.

The Bush team supported a military coup against Chavez in 2002 as well as the recall effort -- which also received U.S. taxpayer dollars from the Congressionally-funded National Endowment for Democracy. But they were unusually quiet as the vote drew near. They do not want to promote any instability that might raise the price of gasoline between now and November 2. But whatever happens in our own election, we are going to need a new foreign policy towards Venezuela -- and the rest of Latin America.

Mark Weisbrot is co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, in Washington, DC

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0818-08.htm

I am sure the Director of Centre for Economic and Policy Reserach in Washington DC would be more knowledgable than you all; as also will have greater research facilties and staff.

Confed999
09 Nov 04,, 00:44
First it was the Soviet Bloc, then it was China, now it is Islam. What's new?
Those are just locations, bad is bad wherever it occurs.

But cut out the rhetoric of this evil jazz.
I can't. I will point it out everytime I see it, because that's the only way to get it stopped. Just letting evil fester, generally only makes thing worse.

Leader
09 Nov 04,, 03:23
You want to pick a fight. Fine, bring it on!


So I write sly posts?

Because they have nothing to do topic or if they do, I don’t know WTF it is.


They go over your head?

Too bad.

And I don't care either. And why should I?


Just give facts. Not your "Just believe me" type of one liners.

As I have said to others, you can refute what I post or ignore it, but complaining is not productive.


Give facts and I sure will change my opinion. In fact, that will educate me rather than my believing Sir Oraclish one liners.

Why would I bother trying? As far as I can tell, you’re some kind of Relativist. So, trying to convince you of anything would be a completely pointless exercise.

Ray
09 Nov 04,, 07:57
Leader,

You are welcome.

Confed,

Fight evil.

Don't invent it.

In psyops, there is a chapter on the same of how to galvanise the public opinion by inventing a fear. Fear and hate are two very strong binding factor.

Just speaking from an academic standpoint. Nothing personal.

smilingassassin
09 Nov 04,, 08:48
Leader,

You are welcome.

Confed,

Fight evil.

Don't invent it.

In psyops, there is a chapter on the same of how to galvanise the public opinion by inventing a fear. Fear and hate are two very strong binding factor.

Just speaking from an academic standpoint. Nothing personal.

I don't think they invented the fear of being beheaded or blown to bits, thats the terrorists own form of Psyops, no inventing nessassary on the part of the U.S.

I thought to you "evil" was just rhetorical anyway?

porsteamboy
09 Nov 04,, 11:07
Maybe you could provide proof, and a reason Venezuela’s quasi-dictatorship shouldn't be overthrown.National Endowment for Democracy ( Its obvious the people who elected him, don't want him over thrown. What the hell do they know, we need oil!

Confed999
09 Nov 04,, 23:15
Confed,

Fight evil.

Don't invent it.
Respectfully Sir, I don't believe Saddam's evil, for example, is an invention.

Ray
10 Nov 04,, 05:09
Confed,

Saddam was a tyrant. You know my views.

You also know the priority of tackling evil.

That is all what I was implying. Maybe I wasn't very articulate.

Julie
11 Nov 04,, 02:20
Getting back to topic here is an interesting article:

http://www.modbee.com/24hour/politics/story/1813001p-9693332c.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House has put out word daily of calls flooding in from around the world to congratulate President Bush on his re-election victory. But somehow, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero just hasn't been able to get his call past the switchboard. Zapatero phoned Bush not long after his Nov. 2 win, but wasn't put through to the president. Now, more than a week after the voting, the two leaders still have not hooked up.

The White House explanation signaled something of a cold shoulder toward the Spanish leader, who angered the administration by withdrawing troops from Iraq just after taking office in April.

"I think that may be the case, that he has tried to reach out," Bush press secretary Scott McClellan said Wednesday. "Calls are scheduled at times that are mutually convenient. Some calls are able to be scheduled quicker than others."

Meanwhile, Bush met privately on Tuesday at the White House with Spain's former prime minister, Jose Maria Aznar, who was a chief Bush ally in the war in Iraq.

Confed999
11 Nov 04,, 02:28
Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero just hasn't been able to get his call past the switchboard. Zapatero phoned Bush not long after his Nov. 2 win, but wasn't put through to the president.
He shouldn't have done what he did. Iraqis and Coalition forces were hurt because of his actions, and terrorists were emboldened.
"When you give your word and you keep it, that gives rise to trust. And that actually is what serious countries and serious governments must do." Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar