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Ironduke
14 Oct 04,, 05:23
As usual, I think Bush did the better job, but I suspect polls will show them about even.

turnagainarm
14 Oct 04,, 05:38
Kerry won without a doubt. Thus with this win, he won all three debates. Bush is done now!

Ironduke
14 Oct 04,, 05:42
Kerry won without a doubt. Thus with this win, he won all three debates. Bush is done now!
Even if Kerry did win all three (which I disagree with), Bush is still projected to win 301 electoral votes to Kerry's 237. Far from being finished, as you put it.

turnagainarm
14 Oct 04,, 06:06
Even if Kerry did win all three (which I disagree with), Bush is still projected to win 301 electoral votes to Kerry's 237. Far from being finished, as you put it.


Kerry won the debate according to all the polls. I don't remember even a single poll giving Bush the win in any of the debates.

Kerry has the momentum, hopefully today's performance will give him a bump by a couple of points in the poll which will translate into higher number of electoral votes.
No candidate have ever been elected president after losing all three debates.

Your count of 301 votes for Bush does not seem accurate since it appears that you are counting some of the toss up states in Bush column. In any case it is going to change in coming weeks.

Julie
14 Oct 04,, 12:37
It does seem the cowboy has taken a nasty fall from his horse. Whether he gets up and back into the race, remains to be seen. :biggrin:

Gio
14 Oct 04,, 12:37
Kerry won the debate according to all the polls. I don't remember even a single poll giving Bush the win in any of the debates.

Kerry has the momentum, hopefully today's performance will give him a bump by a couple of points in the poll which will translate into higher number of electoral votes.
No candidate have ever been elected president after losing all three debates.

Your count of 301 votes for Bush does not seem accurate since it appears that you are counting some of the toss up states in Bush column. In any case it is going to change in coming weeks.
That arogance hurts you, makes you over confident, come election day, lets see whos voters will show up.
I mean check it out:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Bush is ahead, but i agree its far from over. Penn and MN are still up for grabs in my opinion.

Gio
14 Oct 04,, 12:44
It does seem the cowboy has taken a nasty fall from his horse. Whether he gets up and back into the race, remains to be seen. :biggrin:
Too bad your delusions don't play out in state by state polls.

Is this like how the Democratic Party was going to punish Jeb Bush by beating him out of the FL's governors mansion but Jeb Bush ended up winning by like 9 points and the GOP increased its majorities in FL's state house?

Keep up the arogance, it makes the fall harder.

turnagainarm
14 Oct 04,, 12:48
Kerry wins in the 3 polls taken so far.


ABC POLL: Kerry Wins Narrowly
==================================
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=163784
Among registered voters who watched the debate, 42 percent called Kerry the winner, 41 percent said Bush won and 14 percent called it a tie. That's similar to the outcome of the second debate, while Kerry won the first among viewers by a nine-point margin.

(Given that 38% of the sample was Republican and only 30% was Democrat, it should be obvious that Kerry won the debate)

CBS POLL: Kerry Wins Comfortably
==================================
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/13/opinion/polls/main649227.shtml
Uncommitted Voters Pick Kerry
(CBS) Uncommitted voters who saw the third and final debate between President Bush and John Kerry gave the Democrat the edge over the president by a margin of 39-25 percent, according to a CBS News poll. Another 36 percent called it a draw.

CNN/USA Today POLL: Kerry Won Comfortably
==================================
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/14/snap.poll/index.html
Early poll gives Kerry the edge in final debate
TEMPE, Arizona (CNN) -- Sen. John Kerry appeared to gain more momentum heading toward November 2, easily beating President Bush in the third and final debate, a poll taken late Wednesday night suggests.

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup snap poll taken immediately after the presidential debate found that respondents gave a significant edge to Kerry over Bush, 52 percent to 39 percent.

Gio
14 Oct 04,, 12:50
Again with instant polls, you fail to look at the entire picture.

As Ralph Nader says:"Bush will win, John Kerry takes away more votes from himself then i ever could."

turnagainarm
14 Oct 04,, 13:03
That arogance hurts you, makes you over confident, come election day, lets see whos voters will show up.
I mean check it out:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Bush is ahead, but i agree its far from over. Penn and MN are still up for grabs in my opinion.

Check out the polls, Kerry won the debates, all 3 of them!


ON the CBS interactive, MN is titlting towards Kerry.
There are 8 states still up for grabs, NV, NM, IA, WI, OH, PA, FL, and NH.

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2004/09/27/in_depth_politics/map645854.shtml

turnagainarm
14 Oct 04,, 13:06
Again with instant polls, you fail to look at the entire picture.

As Ralph Nader says:"Bush will win, John Kerry takes away more votes from himself then i ever could."


These are not online polls, they are scientific polls.

Who do you think won the debate last night?

Fonnicker
14 Oct 04,, 14:24
Why is it that when those of us that support Kerry state our opinions about his winning the debates we are labeled as "arogant"? Kerry won the first two debates according to all the polls. Early indications are that he won the thrid debate as well.

This election will be very tight I'm sorry to say. It could go either way at this point.

tarek
14 Oct 04,, 17:09
It does not matter who wins at these debates between the two - kerry is more articulate and comes across as having a better grasp - but he doesn't say anything other than that he would do what Bush is doing, only better.

Anyway, these debates will not win any new voters for either candidate, because peole on both sides of the divide have already made up their mind - the only thing that will enable Kerry to win is the degree to which his campaign is successful in getting people to actually make the effort to go and cast votes -- the same applies for Bush, but less so.

People recognize Bush as inarticulate, lets face it, he's inarticulate, but most people also realize that in Bush they have someone who is correct in his diagnosis of the damger facing the US and the world and they trust Bush to take care of business -- Mr. Kerry's promises to do better than Bush, in particular his suggestion that without France and Germany that the US does not have allies, will not go done well with voters.

lets see who's machine can and can not get voters to actually go down to polling stations and cast votes.

Julie
15 Oct 04,, 02:01
Why is it that when those of us that support Kerry state our opinions about his winning the debates we are labeled as "arogant"? Kerry won the first two debates according to all the polls. Early indications are that he won the thrid debate as well.

This election will be very tight I'm sorry to say. It could go either way at this point.


I don't mind when I get called arrogant, because that just tells me that they know Bush is losing. :biggrin:

Kipruss
15 Oct 04,, 23:49
Iron, Fox is the most biased news agency in the US. They don't even try to ensure their presenters are fair to both sides.

Confed999
16 Oct 04,, 01:15
Iron, Fox is the most biased news agency in the US. They don't even try to ensure their presenters are fair to both sides.
Are you talking about the news, or the opinion shows? I haven't seen anymore bias on Fox news, than anywhere else. The oipinion shows are a different matter.

Kipruss
16 Oct 04,, 02:12
We get Fox news reports for 5 or 6 hours from about midnight our time. It starts with Steve, Edie and Bryan doing a morning show (where all three are obviously pro-Republican). The next two presenters in the hours that follow are also Republican in their questioning - as in they ask harder questions of the Democratic interviewees than the Republican interviewees.

The most blatant example of Bias was on the eve of the second debate when they kept showing a graphic with a picture of the President on one side and the Senator on the other and Bush looked determined and Kerry looked condesending (picture taken from below him with him looking down at the camera). Even Bryan (of Steveediebryan:) ) said that it was an old picture of the Senator and they would get a new one (but in the hours afterwards they still used the condesending picture). At that point I realised they just didn't care anymore.

Confed999
16 Oct 04,, 02:27
We get Fox news reports for 5 or 6 hours from about midnight our time. It starts with Steve, Edie and Bryan doing a morning show (where all three are obviously pro-Republican). The next two presenters in the hours that follow are also Republican in their questioning - as in they ask harder questions of the Democratic interviewees than the Republican interviewees.
Those are opinion shows.

when they kept showing a graphic
That's it? How does any of that prove they are more biased than anyone else?

Kipruss
16 Oct 04,, 02:33
The graphic was a clear example of bias but as I said in the first part of the post not the whole thing. Opinion shows on fox news are still on fox news. I didn't have to change the channel. You may not feel one sided "journalism" is wrong because you agree with the one sided "journalists".

Confed999
16 Oct 04,, 02:51
Opinion shows on fox news are still on fox news.
They aren't news. I can watch the 3 stooges right after the news on network TV, does that make the 3 stooges news? There is a difference between the news, and Larry King on CNN too. Opinions aren't news, no matter how much you want them to be. Everything is still biased, except math.

Kipruss
17 Oct 04,, 00:30
When the people discussing the news on Fox keep stating they are fair and balanced, yet keep showing by the way they present the issues in the news that they were hired because of their republican beliefs then that is bias.

The Three Stooges comment is a red herring. If you watch the movie and try to take a political view over who should be President then you have been drinking too much! Network TV news magazine shows are a better example of what you should look at for bias, not the movies that follow.

This morning we had their Fox and Friends show where they kept talking about Kerry's remarks on Lesbianism existing from birth. Even one of the three hosts said at one point, "Are we talking about this thing again?". He also said he was playing devil's advocate when he tried to put it in a pro-Kerry point of view (the only one expoused by the hosts and then just for two minutes).

BTW I realise continuing to put up the picture of John Kerry with what looks like a sneer (used again this morning) is "sneered at" by Confed but if you kept seeing a picture of someone looking like that and you believe Fox is fair and balanced it could affect your decision come Nov 2nd.

Confed999
17 Oct 04,, 00:36
you believe Fox is fair and balanced it could affect your decision come Nov 2nd.
I don't believe anything is unbiased, except math. I don't base my opinions on other people's opinions either though. (I haven't watched the Fox news channel on any regular basis, mostly because there is allways an opinion show on instead of news, just as I don't watch CNN regularly either.)

smilingassassin
22 Oct 04,, 21:35
I don't mind when I get called arrogant, because that just tells me that they know Bush is losing. :biggrin:

Acctually no, you are arrogant. I'm Canadian so I could really care less who wins the election, I just think Bush is less of a flake/fake than kerry.