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Ironduke
27 Dec 06,, 02:58
"Operation Unthinkable: 'Russia: Threat to Western Civilization,'" British War Cabinet, Joint Planning Staff [Draft and Final Reports: 22 May, 8 June, and 11 July 1945], Public Record Office, CAB 120/691/109040 / 001

http://www.history.neu.edu/PRO2/

Scanned photocopy, 37 pages.

From Wikipedia:

Operation Unthinkable was a plan ordered by British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and developed by the British Armed Forces at the end of World War II. The primary goal of the operation was declared as follows: "to impose upon Russia the will of the United States and the British Empire." [1] The word "Russia" is used heavily throughout the document, although no country by that name existed at the time.

The majority of the operation would have consisted of American and British forces, but would also would have entailed the use of up to 100,000 surrendered German soldiers. The plan was rejected by the British Chiefs of Staff Committee as militarily unfeasible and was never carried out.

Amled
27 Dec 06,, 16:29
Considering the recipients (the British War Cabinet) of this draft proposal, there is a curious discrepancy; namely Little Boy and Fat Man, the nukes destined for Japan.
While it’s true that once they had been used, no other devices would have been ready until late ’46 early ‘47.
Even taking into consideration that the report was completed on July 11, and the Trinity test was not carried out until July 16, the existence of the Manhattan Project must have been known to War Cabinet and their planning staff.
Therefore a weapon on the scale envisaged; even before Trinity, surely should have been part of the calculations that were made for “Operation Unthinkable”.

astralis
27 Dec 06,, 17:27
amled,


the existence of the Manhattan Project must have been known to War Cabinet and their planning staff.

while they might have known of its existence, i doubt they knew how far along it was. vice-president truman needed to be informed of the project and the status after his ascension to the presidency following FDR's death.

gunnut
27 Dec 06,, 21:13
vice-president truman needed to be informed of the project and the status after his ascension to the presidency following FDR's death.

That's because Truman was a nobody and Roosevelt never paid much attention to him.:biggrin:

After he became president, he's still a nobody.:eek:

glyn
27 Dec 06,, 22:01
gunnut;317649]That's because Truman was a nobody and Roosevelt never paid much attention to him.:biggrin:

After he became president, he's still a nobody.:eek:[/QUOTE]

I have never heard that view expressed before - certainly not that forcefully. How many Americans would agree with your assessment, I wonder? I thought he was a decent fellow who had the sense to remove General MacArthur, thus preventing the Korea war from spreading to include Russia.

Amled
28 Dec 06,, 16:15
...vice-president truman needed to be informed of the project and the status after his ascension to the presidency following FDR's death.
Alway thought that was a bit much. Tens of thousands of people working all across the US on the Project and they were in the loop, but the Vice wasn't on the need-to-know list.
That being said I've got to agree with Glyn in that Truman did a pretty good job considering that he was a hack machine politician, thrust unprepared into the most demanding job on the planet.

zraver
30 Dec 06,, 16:56
gunnut;317649]That's because Truman was a nobody and Roosevelt never paid much attention to him.:biggrin:

After he became president, he's still a nobody.:eek:

I have never heard that view expressed before - certainly not that forcefully. How many Americans would agree with your assessment, I wonder? I thought he was a decent fellow who had the sense to remove General MacArthur, thus preventing the Korea war from spreading to include Russia.[/QUOTE]

Truman was failure as a president. Removing MacArthur was not a good move, denying him support before hand, opting for a police action, giving the commies sanctuary in China ect were blunders. Ohh thats right he was worried about Stalin, to bad he wasn't worried about him in 46-47 when he gutted the worlds most powerful military.

Truman also stabbed Britian in the back on sharing atom bomb secrets

Bluesman
30 Dec 06,, 17:00
Furthermore, his administration was shot through with commies and their sympathizers. Harry Dexter White comes immediately to mind. There were others, and I'm not talking faceless bureaucrats, either.

He's the guy that started the tradition of committing American troops to battle with no intention of seeking victory.

Bad president. As are most Democrats.

astralis
30 Dec 06,, 18:30
zraver,


Removing MacArthur was not a good move, denying him support before hand, opting for a police action, giving the commies sanctuary in China ect were blunders.

removing mac was the best thing he did. the old general was becoming well-nigh dictatorial, at one point opting to SHAKE THE HAND of the commander-in-chief, like one sovereign to another, instead of saluting. and this was just over matters of protocol.

as for "giving the commies sanctuary" and "no intention of seeking victory", well, china was never america's to "lose", and as risking total war with both the soviets and the chinese 5-8 years after another total war that ruined all europe...thank god that didn't come about.

zraver
01 Jan 07,, 01:13
zraver,



removing mac was the best thing he did. the old general was becoming well-nigh dictatorial, at one point opting to SHAKE THE HAND of the commander-in-chief, like one sovereign to another, instead of saluting. and this was just over matters of protocol.

as for "giving the commies sanctuary" and "no intention of seeking victory", well, china was never america's to "lose", and as risking total war with both the soviets and the chinese 5-8 years after another total war that ruined all europe...thank god that didn't come about.

If he hadn't gutted the US Military, Stalin wouldn't have been so ballsy, and the US would not have been so limited in options.

Officer of Engineers
01 Jan 07,, 02:57
Stalin was bluffing. He would have been just as ballsy had Truman not gutted the military because Stalin never had any intentions of going to war. He was just pushing buttons to get the US and Allies to spend themselves in Korea.