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Ironduke
27 Dec 06,, 01:13
What film(s) do you think was the most inaccurate, laughable war movies ever made, whether its been pumping it up with unneeded drama and romance, inaccurate showing of military tactics, heavily clichéd, etc?

dalem
27 Dec 06,, 01:50
"Battle of the Bulge" and "Enemy at the Gates" both immediately spring to mind for me.

-dale

Rifleman
27 Dec 06,, 01:59
"Where Eagles Dare" with Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton. I loved it though! Loads of fun to watch!

astralis
27 Dec 06,, 02:23
"the green berets", by john wayne. and on the other side, "apocalypse now", although whether or not that counts as a war movie can be debated.

RustyBattleship
27 Dec 06,, 05:02
Most inaccurate: "Battle of the Bulge"
Most anti-war: "Apocolypse Now"
Most dumbest: "Pilot Number 5" with Van Johnson and Gene Kelly
Most hilarious as a combination of war and sci-fi: "Zone Troopers"
Most depressing: "The D.I." with Jack Webb as a Marine Drill Sergeant

Then there was one (I forgot the title) where in a flash back to WW II I play a German soldier beating a French Resistance fighter to death with my M-98 Mauser. Just HAD to be the worst ever because I don't think it was ever released.

sappersgt
27 Dec 06,, 05:50
Kelly's Heroes

Gaskin
27 Dec 06,, 10:29
Rambo 3, if you can count it as a war movie (CIA DID send operators to actively help the mujahids, didn't they :confused: )

TopHatter
27 Dec 06,, 10:44
What film(s) do you think was the most inaccurate, laughable war movies ever made, whether its been pumping it up with unneeded drama and romance, inaccurate showing of military tactics, heavily clichéd, etc?

By those standards...

Top Gun is right at the top of my list.

I especially love how a multi-billion dollar aircraft carrier with 5000+ sailors (valuable asset? Nah...:rolleyes: ) and 90+ aircraft on board is only capable of launching THREE fighter aircraft for it's defense, mainly because Cats 3 and 4 picked a really odd time to simultaneously go down and Cats 1 and 2 must have been on a coffee break or something...

glyn
27 Dec 06,, 14:11
What film(s) do you think was the most inaccurate, laughable war movies ever made, whether its been pumping it up with unneeded drama and romance, inaccurate showing of military tactics, heavily clichéd, etc?

Holy Moses, Ferrous One, I can see this thread running until doomsday. Virtually every war film I have ever seen has had its share of 'errors'. Perhaps the question to ask next is 'What was the most accurately portrayed war film'?

dalem
27 Dec 06,, 15:19
Holy Moses, Ferrous One, I can see this thread running until doomsday. Virtually every war film I have ever seen has had its share of 'errors'. Perhaps the question to ask next is 'What was the most accurately portrayed war film'?

Nahh. There's "inaccurate"; wrong gun for the era, wrong uniform patches, dressing up Shermans for Panzers, etc., and then there's "laughable"; i.e. they didn't even TRY to get accurate.

-dale

gilgamesh
27 Dec 06,, 15:24
Braveheart. Yeah, Wallace rebels against the King somewhere in Scotland and then boinks his woman(consenting) right under his heavily fortified nose! :rolleyes:

gilgamesh
27 Dec 06,, 15:29
Perhaps the question to ask next is 'What was the most accurately portrayed war film'?

'The Longest Day'(I can't comment on the hardware). 'Great Escape'.

Both don't have swear words in them. So not realistic in that sense.

Edit: Add 'A Bridge Too Far'.

Amled
27 Dec 06,, 15:54
1941 and Pearl Harbour

Gaskin
27 Dec 06,, 15:59
1941 and Pearl Harbour

Pearl Harbor indeed, it was a complete disgrace :mad:. Basically it was a love movie with cool spec. effects. I remember I looked soooooo forward to see it and was pretty disappointed. Tora Tora Tora is still the best PH movie around :cool:

Officer of Engineers
27 Dec 06,, 16:01
You guys watch communist propaganda films? Especially Chinese ones? The ones from the Korean War was hillarious.

astralis
27 Dec 06,, 17:32
at least they were hilarious.

i remember watching a commie propaganda film touting the superiority of chinese medicine over western medicine, and they involved poor SOBs undergoing MAJOR heart and brain surgery with no anesthesia...only acupuncture. and because they were being watched, the whole time they had the most ghastly, creepy forced smiles ever. now THAT was inaccurate, but it was neither laughable nor a war movie. :eek:

needless to say i prefer my western brainwashing over the commie one. ;)

gunnut
27 Dec 06,, 18:54
Pearl Harbor was the first thing that came to my mind. After some thought, Enemy at the Gates showed up, especially the end scene.

Top Gun has to be one of the worst film about military, ever!!! Although it was depicting a fictional conflict. I especially love how Goose died. :biggrin: And dressing up T-38 as Mig-28 (or some other weird even number for a Mig, which is just so wrong) was funny too.

glyn
27 Dec 06,, 18:58
You are wrong. Acupuncture has been successfully used for major operations, and without the side effects of the chemicals that would otherwise be needed. The patients feel no pain, and can converse normally with the medical staff during the procedure. We know it works, but we in the west cannot understand how it works, and being conservative in the ethics of the medical profession, are not likely to switch from current doctrines.

BFD15
27 Dec 06,, 19:11
"The Devil's Brigade" with William Holden. It was full of historical inaccuracy to give it more Hollywood appeal, but it was still enjoyable to watch.
Another very enjoyable movie was "Zulu" about the battle at Rourke's drift. I think it was fairly accurate though.

astralis
27 Dec 06,, 19:20
glyn,


You are wrong. Acupuncture has been successfully used for major operations, and without the side effects of the chemicals that would otherwise be needed. The patients feel no pain, and can converse normally with the medical staff during the procedure. We know it works, but we in the west cannot understand how it works, and being conservative in the ethics of the medical profession, are not likely to switch from current doctrines

it has been successfully used, but for major operations acupuncture is often used in conjunction with and not in place of anesthesia. there's a reason why even chinese hospitals no longer exclusively use acupuncture, and it's surely not because they have a blind faith in the superiority of western medicine. ;)

astralis
27 Dec 06,, 19:24
going back to the topic of this thread,

holy crap, i just remembered what has got to be the worst of all time, Behind Enemy Lines. a long movie about owen wilson running...and running...and running.

troung
27 Dec 06,, 19:43
"the green berets", by john wayne. and on the other side, "apocalypse now", although whether or not that counts as a war movie can be debated.

You communist!

The Duke was and will always be a legend!!!!

temujin77
28 Dec 06,, 15:56
This is not a war movie, but Gladiator bugs me sometimes with the thumb gestures. A thumb down is to let the downed gladiator live, and the movie conveyed the total opposite message.

War-wise, I'm surprised no one has picked up the inaccuracies of Midway. I don't want to go into all the details, but I recommend those who are interested in that battle to pick up the relatively new book, Shattered Sword, for that it reveals many inaccuracies about the battle that are commonly held as true in western books. A review of the book here:

http://ww2db.com/read.php?read_id=34

I agree that Tora Tora Tora is a great film both in terms of entertainment value and accuracy. I know, it's not perfectly accurate, but sometimes Hollywood needs to bend a few things to make a movie more entertaining. After all, Hollywood makes money more so by entertaining than educating.

Amled
28 Dec 06,, 16:04
You communist!

The Duke was and will always be a legend!!!!
A draft dodger, but you're right a legend!!!;) :)

ArmchairGeneral
28 Dec 06,, 17:19
'The Longest Day'(I can't comment on the hardware). 'Great Escape'.

Both don't have swear words in them. So not realistic in that sense.

Edit: Add 'A Bridge Too Far'.

While I'm sure there was plenty of swearing going on, e.g. FUBAR, etc, I think modern movies may err in the opposite direction. Both my grandfathers were in WWII; one of them always said there was much less swearing in the army than is portrayed in the movies, and neither of them was in the habit of swearing very much. Interestingly, I was reading a review of Windtalkers, the movie about the Navaho codespeakers. The reviewer talked to one of the surviving codespeakers, and one of his only problems with the film was that it had much more swearing than he remembered. I have a feeling such things depended in large part on the unit you were in. If you were in a unit with lots of southerners the amount of swear words would decrease greatly, for example.

ArmchairGeneral
28 Dec 06,, 17:21
going back to the topic of this thread,

holy crap, i just remembered what has got to be the worst of all time, Behind Enemy Lines. a long movie about owen wilson running...and running...and running.

Gotta agree with you there. That movie stands out in my mind as well.

astralis
28 Dec 06,, 17:33
troung,


You communist!

The Duke was and will always be a legend!!!!

hey...hey...i liked "sands of iwo jima"? :biggrin:

the green berets were NOT his best days. ;)

Tronic
28 Dec 06,, 17:57
And dressing up T-38 as Mig-28 (or some other weird even number for a Mig, which is just so wrong) was funny too.

yea.... lol, I believe they used "Mig-28"... :biggrin:

Tronic
28 Dec 06,, 18:00
how about the "Hot Shots" movies??? lol... simply amazing, especially when they bomb saddam... :biggrin:

MarquezRazor
28 Dec 06,, 18:12
1.Top Gun:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

2.Pearl Harbour.:rolleyes:


At the other end of the spectrum

Saving Private Ryan,Black Hawk Down and Band of Brothers series.:cool:


Btw...not a war movie...but have anyone of you seen the Lord of War starring Nicholas Cage?

I liked that dialogue..."Keeping track of nuclear arsenels - you'd thing that more critical to world security. But it's not. No, nine out of ten war victims today are killed with assault rifles and small arms - like yours. Those nuclear weapons sit in their silos. Your AK-47, that's the real weapon of mass destruction."

sappersgt
28 Dec 06,, 18:40
Btw...not a war movie...but have anyone of you seen the Lord of War starring Nicholas Cage?


Saw it when in first came out and really liked it. It's filmed on location and Cage does a good "War Lord". ;)

I still laugh thinking about the scene where he realizes he's about to get caught with a whole load of contraband cargo and so lands on a dirt road and dumps it out for all the locals to take. Sometimes you have to be able to think on your feet! :eek:

Him bribing the border guards replicated a personal incident I would just as soon forget.:rolleyes: :biggrin:

gunnut
28 Dec 06,, 18:47
A draft dodger, but you're right a legend!!!;) :)

I thought the Duke was too old to be drafted in WW2.

gunnut
28 Dec 06,, 18:48
I liked that dialogue..."Keeping track of nuclear arsenels - you'd thing that more critical to world security. But it's not. No, nine out of ten war victims today are killed with assault rifles and small arms - like yours. Those nuclear weapons sit in their silos. Your AK-47, that's the real weapon of mass destruction."

Interesting....Hollywood just justified the invasion of Iraq.

temujin77
28 Dec 06,, 18:54
Interesting....Hollywood just justified the invasion of Iraq.

A-ha! I knew there is a real why I sort of like Hollywood! :)

MarquezRazor
28 Dec 06,, 18:54
I still laugh thinking about the scene where he realizes he's about to get caught with a whole load of contraband cargo and so lands on a dirt road and dumps it out for all the locals to take. Sometimes you have to be able to think on your feet! :eek:


Yeah and the An-12 disappearing overnight..bit by bit...:eek:


Him bribing the border guards replicated a personal incident I would just as soon forget

If ya tell that to me...will ya have to kill me..?:biggrin:

MarquezRazor
28 Dec 06,, 18:57
Interesting....Hollywood just justified the invasion of Iraq.

Actually AFAIK the hollywood(I mean US) didnt back the movie..so it was produced by international producers.

They even informed NATO when they shot a scene with tanks lined up for sale..so that NATO didnt think a war is being planned for real. when they saw it on satellite pics.:eek:

sappersgt
28 Dec 06,, 19:20
Yeah and the An-12 disappearing overnight..bit by bit...:eek:


It is truly amazing how fast they took it apart with hand tools. I've seen unattended vehicles (big trucks) disappear over night in the same manner. You come back in the morning and it's just gone! :eek: :biggrin:


If ya tell that to me...will ya have to kill me..?:biggrin

Only if you're wearing shoes...;) :biggrin:

gunnut
28 Dec 06,, 19:40
Actually AFAIK the hollywood(I mean US) didnt back the movie..so it was produced by international producers.

They even informed NATO when they shot a scene with tanks lined up for sale..so that NATO didnt think a war is being planned for real. when they saw it on satellite pics.:eek:

I did not know that. I might have to watch that movie now.

Amled
28 Dec 06,, 22:47
I thought the Duke was too old to be drafted in WW2.
You're right at 34 he was probably too old for the draft in '41.
So more of a skulker, who refused to step up and "do the right thing" as he always epitomized in his films.
If you think I'm picking on him, I'm not, I was weaned on "The Duke" and his films, but it doesn't alter the fact of his less-then-honourable war service, even his best friends like John Ford used to rag him about it.

JBG
28 Dec 06,, 23:03
Going back to the topic, there are regrettably a huge number of worthy candidates, most of whom have been nominated here already.


For me it is "The Battle of the Bulge". It has all of the necessary inaccuracies but what clinches the nomination is the scene where panzers are one moment in a snow draped forest and the next moment are in the desert, and north american desert by the look of the tumble weed. True crap!!

Jonathan

MarquezRazor
29 Dec 06,, 06:09
Another one..not a war movie..but based on present day Afganistan....in-accurate but entertaining.Released just 2/3 weeks back.

MarquezRazor
29 Dec 06,, 06:22
In the above movie theres a scene where the characters come across a smoking truck on the roadside...whcih has been bombed by US planes..with liquid dripping from the sides.The two Indians find out that its a cola drink and they taste it and start arguing whether its coke or pepsi.Finally they invite the American(Linda Arsenio) to give the verdict..and she says she doesnt know cuz she doesnt drink either of them.The Indians are surprised and they ask..."what kind of American doesnt drink either coke or pepsi?"...to which Linda Arsenio replies..."The sensible kind...?":biggrin:

RustyBattleship
29 Dec 06,, 06:43
You're right at 34 he was probably too old for the draft in '41.
So more of a skulker, who refused to step up and "do the right thing" as he always epitomized in his films.
If you think I'm picking on him, I'm not, I was weaned on "The Duke" and his films, but it doesn't alter the fact of his less-then-honourable war service, even his best friends like John Ford used to rag him about it.

Have you guys ever watched the way John Wayne walked? Harry Carey taught him that style to cover his limp.

Broke a hip when a horse threw him so he was a 4-F.

Ronald Reagan would have been a 4-F also because of his nearsightedness and almost stone deaf in one ear (a blank from a revolver was fired too close to his ear - I think by Errol Flynn). But Ronnie was already an officer in the Reserves (Cavalry at that) and was able to serve active duty though at home. He retired as a Captain but was up for Major when the Army decided he was over aged. Besides Eisenhower, Reagan served more time in uniform than any other President.

neilmpenny
01 Jan 07,, 20:31
Pearl Harbour was a shocker.

There was a good one a few years ago about two guys in the balkans who were trying to kill each other and the UN ended up in the middle. That was a good one, will try to find out the name of it.

leib10
01 Jan 07,, 20:47
Pearl Harbor was the first thing that came to my mind. After some thought, Enemy at the Gates showed up, especially the end scene.

Top Gun has to be one of the worst film about military, ever!!! Although it was depicting a fictional conflict. I especially love how Goose died. :biggrin: And dressing up T-38 as Mig-28 (or some other weird even number for a Mig, which is just so wrong) was funny too.

Actually, it was an F-5. ;) The actual planes used in the film were later used by aggressor pilots at Top Gun, still in their black paint scheme.

But the worst have to be Pearl Harbor, Top Gun, Enemy At The Gates, and a few others that slipped my mind.

I still have a few bones to pick with SPR...

neilmpenny
01 Jan 07,, 20:48
Two good ones: Deer Hunter and Das Boot.

leib10
01 Jan 07,, 20:52
Saw it when in first came out and really liked it. It's filmed on location and Cage does a good "War Lord". ;)

I still laugh thinking about the scene where he realizes he's about to get caught with a whole load of contraband cargo and so lands on a dirt road and dumps it out for all the locals to take. Sometimes you have to be able to think on your feet! :eek:

Him bribing the border guards replicated a personal incident I would just as soon forget.:rolleyes: :biggrin:

Yeah, that scene was classic. :biggrin:

xerxes
24 Jan 07,, 03:32
the most inaccurate would be 300 ;)

the three most accurate IMHO would be

Japan's Longest Day
Tora, Tora, Tora
The Longest Day

pdf27
24 Jan 07,, 10:08
Longest Day was probably helped by the fact that a number of the cast had been in the same roles in the real one. Bill Millin, for instance, the piper who landed with 1 Commando Brigade on Sword Beach played himself in that film.
Same applies (probably to a greater extent) in A Bridge Too Far, although as that operation wasn't a success there was probably a bit of reputation-polishing going on there with people trying to airbrush out some of their less good decisions.

SnowLeopard
24 Jan 07,, 10:36
What I always remember as a great example of Hollywood inaccruacy was a seen from "Rat Patrol" where the hero for that episode approaches a German tank with a heck of a potato masher and blows it up.

Add to that the various sci-fi military shows that either cross terms right and left without regard, such as Jordi being the commanding officer of engineering in ST:TNG, CO's berating members of their crew as essentially lousy scum on a constant basis like it was accepted that it was just the way it is, or the star doing massive military mistakes that should get him relieved but the next show, they are still in charge. Granted, it is sci-fi, it is a different military, perhaps, system, but what is done for the story does stretch the creditbility of it.

And I HATE JAG with a passion.

That said, let's see, movie wise? Well, leaving out the movies that were horribly made to begin with such as "The Soldier",

Well, saw a lot of WWII movies when I was a child and they were fun ...... for a child. These days, however, they seem questionable such as

Mosquito Squadron (could one really have long hair like that)
The Last Escape (train pacificists as a commando unit, skills is one thing, but the spirit or the will?)

But these days, the ones I would put at the top (or is it the bottom) of the list are:

WarGames .... when the movie opens up with a missile silo officer openly talking about, essentially supporting, that his girlfriend (or former) grows weed with the other silo officer ...... you know the film was done by someone with a quite interesting view of the military.

AND

any military style movie with Michael Dudikoff in it. He's okay for a bouncy crime movie, but after seeing Crash Dive, I've learned to avoid any movie with his name on it like the Plague. Which, in a way, is unfortunate, because the secondary cast usually consists of familar, well liked faces. But with all the attention applied to him and things written so he comes out the hero regardless (which is often the story with a lot of movies), it becomes very painful to watch.
--------------------------------------------
("I find that (story) as difficult to swallow as this potage au gelee."--Hugh, (w,stte), "What's Up, Doc?")

TopHatter
24 Jan 07,, 12:57
WarGames .... when the movie opens up with a missile silo officer openly talking about, essentially supporting, that his girlfriend (or former) grows weed with the other silo officer ...... you know the film was done by someone with a quite interesting view of the military.If you should happen to watch that movie again, very carefully note the scene where David (Matthew Broderick) is locked in the NORAD dispensary and uses that tape recorder to mimic the door's keypad tone and escape.

When he first pulls the tape recorder out of the drawer, he clicks it on for a second or two and you hear what is apparently a physician (actually director John Badham) giving a medical report about somebody, either Air Force or civilian contractor (assuming that they have them at NORAD). The doctor is detailing symptoms that he says are consistant with heavier drugs than pot. (like PCP)



AND
any military style movie with Michael Dudikoff in it.Michael Dudikoff :rolleyes:

I envy the guy for making a steady career in film, but still...

soutie
24 Jan 07,, 14:29
yeah zulu was fairly accurate except that the zulu,s disputed one fact that it was the men with the white lines on their arms the NCO,S that organised the defence of rorkes drift,but i geuss we will never know.

soutie
24 Jan 07,, 14:33
i do not think this was a hollywood movie but after meeting someone who had survived a japanese prisoner of war campThe Most inaccurate was the bridge over the river kwai.

glyn
24 Jan 07,, 15:25
How about ANY film that shows artillery bursts to consist of huge orange balls of flame? Try doing an AOP where all you can see for those brief seconds you are exposed above the skyline is a briefer blur! Equally flames coming from the ground when only machine guns rifles or pistols are being fired! Why do so many cars and other road vehicles erupt in flames when it is such a rare event in real life? The amazing accuracy at extreme ranges of pistol shooters in some westerns is jaw dropping. Let's face it, film makers take little pains to get things right.They run the dream factories that pander to 'artistic' interpretation and the stars ego and know the paying public won't know or care in the majority of cases. They do know how to make money, however. Let's give them credit for that at least.

soutie
24 Jan 07,, 15:29
yeah i know ;) plus a six shooter that holds about 20 rounds ,plus you never see him reloading:biggrin:

glyn
24 Jan 07,, 15:32
i do not think this was a hollywood movie but after meeting someone who had survived a japanese prisoner of war campThe Most inaccurate was the bridge over the river kwai.

The real Lt Col portrayed in the film by Alec Guinness died only a few years ago. There was a TV production which interviewed ex-POWs and the guards. Those interviewed maintained the film was a travesty of the truth. Go to the cinema for entertainment. Do not expect to find accuracy or 'truth'.

T_igger_cs_30
24 Jan 07,, 15:38
a slightly different perspective ,my grandfather who was there ....RIP...told me after wacthing the film with him, I asked "is that how it was grandad"....he replied....."no son but I am glad they did not show you the truth and reality"...

tankie
24 Jan 07,, 16:14
The one where the Americans supposedly captured the Enigma Machine .

the great escape ,

and anything with John Wayne and James Cagney in em ;)

leib10
24 Jan 07,, 19:58
yeah i know ;) plus a six shooter that holds about 20 rounds ,plus you never see him reloading:biggrin:

There's a great one of those in Open Range; he fires his Colt SAA at least 10 times. :eek:

TopHatter
24 Jan 07,, 20:30
The one where the Americans supposedly captured the Enigma Machine.
Well, technically the Americans did capture an Enigma machine, one of many captured (by the RN) during the war. I've seen it in person and also "manned" the periscope of the U-Boat that it was captured off of.

But I know you mean, and don't worry, thanks to things like The History Channel, many Americans are aware of places like Bletchley Park ;)

Deioces
24 Jan 07,, 20:50
i say 300. herodotus was a chump if u ask me. lied about everything!!!

Parihaka
24 Jan 07,, 21:00
Anything that involves the US cavalry seeing off those dastardly Indians with a charge, bugler in full song.

oh and I know it's completely fictional but the Battle of the Pellenor fields, as done by Peter Jackson. A complete travesty.

SnowLeopard
24 Jan 07,, 21:38
Well, A and B and C.

A: I read the book "Wargames", so I know of the drug tape. The book was even more idealistic than the movie.

B: Be careful of the History Channel. Seen some glaring errors where the narrator is saying one thing and picture says another, such as Soviet nuclear submarines and shows a line of Foxtrots.

C: And, of course, there is the being knocked back a few feet when being shot.
------------------------------------------
("When the child said his friend flew back in the accidental shooting, I knew there was another part of the story. People shot usually just crumble; flying back is Hollywood stuff."--Investigator, (wtte), The New Detectives "Wasted Youth")

leib10
24 Jan 07,, 21:44
I have my reservations about the History Channel as well. A lot of presentations are obviously biased in one way or another.

TopHatter
24 Jan 07,, 22:21
B: Be careful of the History Channel. Seen some glaring errors where the narrator is saying one thing and picture says another, such as Soviet nuclear submarines and shows a line of Foxtrots.


I have my reservations about the History Channel as well. A lot of presentations are obviously biased in one way or another.
Oh I don't doubt that the History Channel has it's faults.

No Battle Of Midway documentary is complete without footage of Hellcats, Helldivers, Essex-class carriers etc in action.

But a lot of that no doubt stems from simple lack of footage about the subject at hand.

Admittedly, a lack of research and a "yeah that'll fit there OK, now hurry it up, we're on a tight timeline to finish this production" situation will result in Foxtrots substituting for nukes.

In addition, there will always be an element of bias, in one form or another.

That's why it's important to seek your information from a wide variety of sources.

Personally I'll put up with a little bias if the program that I'm watching is by and large honest about it's subject material.

glyn
24 Jan 07,, 22:25
[QUOTE=TopHatter;334398]Well, technically the Americans did capture an Enigma machine, one of many captured (by the RN) during the war. I've seen it in person and also "manned" the periscope of the U-Boat that it was captured off of.

'Off of'' from the erudite TH? I had better lie down for a while. (in a weak voice) From, dear boy, From......

TopHatter
24 Jan 07,, 22:27
'Off of'' from the erudite TH? I had better lie down for a while. (in a weak voice) From, dear boy, From......Sir? Sir? Are you feeling quite well? :confused:

SnowLeopard
25 Jan 07,, 08:09
I do use the History Channel and other education TV for a lot of research but often the main things I get out of it are the names of people. Then it is back to the databases to see if that person has written anything, especially if it was in a credible journal.

Once ran into a researcher who was on one of the presentations I had used for antiquity theft, recognized her from the tape. After brief introductions, she asked me what I thought about it and I replied that it was very informative ......... but I had to pause the tape about every 30 seconds to scribble something down.

That's the way a lot of my research goes. First I'm using some source that really isn't a source, as far as academics is concerned, at all. Then from there I usually have enough substance to ask the right questions to find the right sources.

One interesting little tidbit. As noted before, there is the narration about nukes but showing diesals. Well, in the book Rising Tide: The Untold Story of the Russian Submarines That Fought the Cold War, there is an extensive account of the diesals that were sent to Cuba during the missile crisis. Afterwards, an official in the Kremlin blasted the command for why their journey didn't go as well since they had their newest nuclear boat, which they didn't. It's an interesting coincidence, almost definetly not linked, but still very interesting.
--------------
("So how was it last night, your 'date' (being in bed) with Leo?"--Phoebe
"Well, it was okay, but I was nervous and so out of practice that ...."--Piper
"Oh, Piper, you didn't!"
"I froze him practically every 30 seconds!", (w,stte), Charmed "Wicca Envy"(?))

sparten
25 Jan 07,, 17:14
Oh I don't doubt that the History Channel has it's faults.

No Battle Of Midway documentary is complete without footage of Hellcats, Helldivers, Essex-class carriers etc in action.

But a lot of that no doubt stems from simple lack of footage about the subject at hand.

Admittedly, a lack of research and a "yeah that'll fit there OK, now hurry it up, we're on a tight timeline to finish this production" situation will result in Foxtrots substituting for nukes.

In addition, there will always be an element of bias, in one form or another.

That's why it's important to seek your information from a wide variety of sources.

Personally I'll put up with a little bias if the program that I'm watching is by and large honest about it's subject material.
There are a lot of shots of USS Enterprise in action. And it played a bit of a part at said battle. Honestly sometimes I think producers don't even try.

As for bias, there always is one. No matter how truthfully or in a detached way something is presented. So an Englishman will always see Yorktown as a tragerdy. And a yank a success.

Just look at the bios of Alexander the great over time. So much of the interpretation of his actions stem from contempory sensibilities.

As for bad war movies, anything the Indians make, with reference to us.

sparten
25 Jan 07,, 17:14
And oh yeah,
Errol Flynn, "They died with their boots on".

Shipwreck
25 Jan 07,, 17:44
oh and I know it's completely fictional but the Battle of the Pellenor fields, as done by Peter Jackson. A complete travesty.

LOL :biggrin:

neilmpenny
26 Jan 07,, 14:04
yeah i know ;) plus a six shooter that holds about 20 rounds ,plus you never see him reloading:biggrin:

Or when John Wayne fires his pistol and two or more drop, usually off of horses.

BudW
27 Feb 07,, 02:11
Mash
Top Gun
The last Samurai

Militarythinker
27 Feb 07,, 09:29
Hogan's Heroes

Love the series tho, very funny.

-M

SnowLeopard
27 Feb 07,, 09:41
>Hogan's Heros

Well, when it is comedy, it can be wide open to how inaccurate it can be without worry, right? Hence, tv's McHale's Navy ....... well...........

But, of course, movies are suppose to be entertaining and if they were anything like the reality, not only would people not watch them, but they would also probably be very depressed. Of course, when they watch the movie and then expect reality to be like that ............
-----------------------------------------
("He's having a heart attack, Doctor, but I knew what to do, what exactly to do, because I saw it on tv. I punched him in the chest."--bum about his friend he brought in
"You what? YOU IDIOT! You probably collapsed his rib cage!"--Dr. Brackett, (w,stte), "Emergency")

GVChamp
17 Mar 07,, 06:16
I don't think anything in the world was more unrealistic than "300."

sappersgt
17 Mar 07,, 06:30
yeah i know ;) plus a six shooter that holds about 20 rounds ,plus you never see him reloading:biggrin:

DTD3 played on SciFi night before last and it too had one of those famous twenty round revolvers.:rolleyes:

Bigfella
17 Mar 07,, 10:33
Lots of possibilities for bad films here, but a few do stand out:

Braveheart: The battle of Stirling bridge with no bridge? Wallace fathering a child MANY years after his execution.

The Green Berets: Who says American propaganda isn't just as crappy as the commies make? The Duke as the fattest Green Beret in history (gives a big fella some hope) and that magic final scene walking along a South Vietnamese beach as the sun sets behind the sea. Pick the mistake anyone?

neilmpenny
17 Mar 07,, 14:24
I don't know what it is, but in every movie where there is a clock in the background I make a note of the time.

Amled
17 Mar 07,, 15:41
And oh yeah,
Errol Flynn, "They died with their boots on".
Talking of Errol Flynn...Santa Fe, with a graduating class from West Point that included among others Custer, Jeb Stuart, Sheridan and Longstreet.

Yet when I can't help ruminating over the final scene where they hang John Brown, and the fact that a few years latter millions of men were going into battle singing his praise.
Todays villain/terrorist turned into tommorow's icon!

SnowLeopard
20 Mar 07,, 09:08
.......The Green Berets: Who says American propaganda isn't just as crappy as the commies make? The Duke as the fattest Green Beret in history (gives a big fella some hope) and that magic final scene walking along a South Vietnamese beach as the sun sets behind the sea. Pick the mistake anyone?

Something about the world not turning that way? If you watch a movie enough, one is bound to pick up mistakes. Such as those heavy ice cubes in their tea when they are having the covert discussion with the bait at the roadside cafe.

The biggest thing about that movie that bugs me is the commander abandoning his men when they kidnap the enemy general. The Duke puts the cargo into the trunk of the Citron, gets in himself, and takes off. His native irregulars try to grab a truck to get out of there and get shot dead. That irks the hell out of me when it is shown as the way things are suppose to be.

But, oh well, I guess someone as big as The Duke is like the carrier; never (well, hardly ever) gets hit.
-----------------------------------------------------
(After being relieved of command because he came off the ice, first. "They (Rome) think I abandoned my men? What do they think I have done?"--General Umberto Nobile
"They think you have done what it appears you have done."--Soviet Captain Samoilvich, (w,stte), "The Red Tent")

Bluesman
21 Mar 07,, 16:15
HATED 'Memphis Belle'.

Mostly because THAT piece of dreck was the only 'cover' the subject will ever get now.:mad:

Movie people should realize that they are taking the ONE SHOT they're going to get to get the details of the story right; they should TRY, dammit. There's never going to be another opportunity to tell that amazing story.

As much as I loathe Alan Alda, he made a forgettable movie long, long ago called 'Sweet Liberty', in which he played an American Revolutionary War historian that was hired as a technical adviser for the making of his own book into a movie. He gets more frustrated and fed up with the EXTREME artisitc license being taken with the storyline he told in his book, until finally, the movie bears no relation whatsoever to reality, and the amazing story that actually occurred is lost.

I feel the same way about 'Memphis Belle': what, WWII aerial warfare just isn't exciting enough for you without all the 'entertainment' aspects and added-on chrome?

The odd thing about 'Sweet Liberty' is the acknowledgement by Hollywood of this proclivity. The fact that this movie was made at all is an admission that, YEAH, we think you people are idiots that don't know the difference, or simply won't care.

For the most part, Hollywood is right, too.

But getting those great old warriors to pose in front of their airplane one more time in order to promote this travesty is not honoring them; it's mocking them, and I find it too sad to just let it go with a shrug.

Bluesman
21 Mar 07,, 16:23
Personally, I would like SCRUPULOUS accuracy, and where certain things cannot be known (unrecorded transcripts of dialog, for instance, or logically-made and plausible inferences in the absence of actual witnessed accounts), carefully-chosen and directed decisions may be taken to fill in those blanks. At those times, I would think it would be the supreme accomplishment of ANY writer and/or director to get his audience to suspend disbelief enough to NOT NOTICE the interruption in history's linear tale, and to accept as fact what they had seen in that writer/director's vision of what he thinks is possible.

THAT is the craft of historical storytelling, in my humble opinion, and it's what's missing in most of what we've been discussing: ahistorical, outrageous and careless trashing of historical fact.

Parihaka
21 Mar 07,, 22:31
The Dam Busters is undergoing pre-production here at the moment. Fortunately P Jackson is producing it, not directing it. While I still don't have high hopes, I am looking forward to Lancaster mock-ups around the place.

GSpot
29 Mar 07,, 02:06
While I have to admit that I enjoyed watching it, parts of 300 made me cringe. Apart from all of the glaring misrepresentations inflicted on the Persians (Im thinking they were mentioned in another thread?) the portrayal of the Greeks themselves was terrible. They tried to portray these guys as an unstoppable fighting force of well trained warriors, but what kind of campaign are they pursuing without supplies, food, water or armor?
And worst of all these Spartans were tossing around words like 'liberty' and 'freedom'. Why on earth would a director (or graphic novelist) pick some of the most accomplished oppressors in human history to be the defenders of liberty?

... but for all that, the stabbing was pretty exciting.

RustyBattleship
29 Mar 07,, 02:49
The Dam Busters is undergoing pre-production here at the moment. Fortunately P Jackson is producing it, not directing it. While I still don't have high hopes, I am looking forward to Lancaster mock-ups around the place.

Ooooh! That was a good one. Prior to the movie coming out, both the Saturday Evening Post and Reader's Digest had stories of that squadron but NEVER described the shape of the bomb. You had to see the movie. And it was very well done. The huge columns of water from the explosions were actually cutouts of Niagra Falls - upside down. I wonder what kind of special effects will be used this time.

There was no Hollywierdish love triangles mixed in. True to a British documentary it was cut to the chase and if don't like the facts - too bad.

But there WAS one funny part in the movie most people missed. It was when the group commander was finally informed that his targets would be the Ruhr River Damns. He said, "Thank God. I thought it was going to be the Tirpitz".

Guess what squadron WAS picked later to target Tirpitz?

JungleMike
30 Mar 07,, 21:18
Enemy at the Gates, Captain Correlli's Mandolin (not a war-movie) and the original 1966 Battle of Britain had really cheesy shots of Stukas bombing. didn't look at all like the dive profile I thought that they would use.

I know that BofB was made to be authentic and I really enjoy it but just don't like their Stukas!

gunnut
31 Mar 07,, 00:02
I know that BofB was made to be authentic and I really enjoy it but just don't like their Stukas!

Have you noticed something funny about those He-111s in the movie? Those were powered by Merlin engines...:biggrin:

Amled
01 Apr 07,, 17:18
A draft dodger, but you're right a legend!!!;) :)
Had a chance to renew acquaintance with Wayne’s flick “Sands of Iwo Jima” today. It’s been close to 40 years since I last saw it, and I must say that when Wayne as Sgt. Stryker leads his men onto the beaches of Tarawa, and up the slopes of Mt. Suribachi, it kind’ a makes you forget his less then enviable real war record.
He is Stryker!

sparten
08 Jul 07,, 14:29
Platoon. I go between loving it and thinking its ludicrous.

wabpilot
08 Jul 07,, 19:47
Have you noticed something funny about those He-111s in the movie? Those were powered by Merlin engines...:biggrin:They are the Spanish versions. Probably not any He-111's in flyable condition. Conversely the Spanish ones served well into the fifties.

Kansas Bear
08 Jul 07,, 20:47
I know Braveheart has already been mentioned, BUT...........

What they mention as Stirling was Battle of Stirling BRIDGE!!

Where's the damn bridge in the damn movie???

Bigfella
09 Jul 07,, 05:24
Kansas,

Braveheart could occupy a thread all of its own for inaccuracies & distortions. Among my favourites were:

* The battle you mentioned, minus the all-important bridge;
* The implication that Wallace fathered a royal child actually born something like a dozen years after he was executed (talk about your long pregnancies!);
* A depiction of the allegedly gay King Edward 2 that was lifted straight from a 70s British sitcom (all that was missing was a 'hello sailor');
* The crediting of a string of murders to Wallace that were almost certainly done by Bruce - thus making Bruce look better;
* The curious failure to mention the distinctly un-English & un-Scottish nature of the ruling classes in question. Nice Norman names like Balliol being a bit of a giveaway to the observant

No doubt there were more, but those are a good start.

Canmoore
09 Jul 07,, 06:18
"Behind Enemy Lines" and "Pearl Harbor" are major ones for me.

I really liked the "Longest Day", but I give it a thumbs down for not having a scene devoted to the Canadians who took Juno beach, and who pushed further inland than any other allied force on that day.

And my thumbs down also goes to all those World War Two documentaries and movies who say that the British took Juno Beach... Its enough to make my skin crawl.

taygone
12 Jul 07,, 02:10
Anyone watch Stargate: SG1 in the early going? I remember some scene they had a SMsgt guarding a door plus they still had the individual MAJCOM for the crest on the berets. They eventually got accuate, but I remember the door guards would be Msgts all the way up to Chiefs.

Besides Top Gun. What about Iron Eagle? Especially the third one with the aged pilots who were doing air shows and then go do some airstrike with old style planes that were upgraded. I miss 80's action films.

dalem
12 Jul 07,, 02:55
Well, if we're going to venture into the silly then Battlefield: Earth, with post-apocalyptic Cave Men flying F-18s that had been stored for hundreds of years has to take the cake.

And stab us in the eyes with it. ;)

-dale

taygone
12 Jul 07,, 04:17
Well, if we're going to venture into the silly then Battlefield: Earth, with post-apocalyptic Cave Men flying F-18s that had been stored for hundreds of years has to take the cake.

And stab us in the eyes with it. ;)

-dale

Silly? The movie or the religon? :eek: I wondered why Travolta did that movie until I heard about his religon.

I really didn't get The Thin Red Line I saw Saving Private Ryan first and The Thin Red Line had me falling asleep. But the gun fight on the hill with the tall grass (sorry for being so vague) seemed realistic. Like the bank robbery scene in HEAT. Talk about testosterone. HUA!

The most disappointing War movies that turned out to be chick flicks:

The Last Samurai & Pearl Harbor. wtf?

leib10
12 Jul 07,, 16:20
Anyone watch Stargate: SG1 in the early going? I remember some scene they had a SMsgt guarding a door plus they still had the individual MAJCOM for the crest on the berets. They eventually got accuate, but I remember the door guards would be Msgts all the way up to Chiefs.

Besides Top Gun. What about Iron Eagle? Especially the third one with the aged pilots who were doing air shows and then go do some airstrike with old style planes that were upgraded. I miss 80's action films.

Iron Eagle IV, I believe. LOL

taygone
12 Jul 07,, 21:32
Iron Eagle IV, I believe. LOL

You're right. Then what was part three about? I didn't think they made movies (especially bad ones) past three.

Best movie lines with fiction military characters.

"It's beatiful man. It's f**ing beautiful" -Tom Cruise in Taps.

"Game over man. Game over." -Bill Paxton in Aliens.
Ironically this made it to four movies, but you can't tell me Aliens didn't rock.

bugs
23 Jul 07,, 21:56
hunt for red october

Kansas Bear
23 Jul 07,, 22:03
The Last Samurai........... wtf?


Classic, how the Gatling guns were mowing down the samurai, yet leave Cruise virtually unscathed!!:eek: :rolleyes:

taygone
26 Jul 07,, 02:15
Classic, how the Gatling guns were mowing down the samurai, yet leave Cruise virtually unscathed!!:eek: :rolleyes:

You didn't know he could slow down time and dodge the bullets? Remember the scene with the instant replay of him taking on all those ronin? And with only a few months of training! Very cool:cool:

ghost88
28 Oct 07,, 10:58
In the TV show were the hero could go back in time by one week, I saw a very interesting thing. He was on a US Destroyer to stop a nuke exchange between the US Admiral and China, He and the ships Captian had locked the Admiral off the Bridge when the CO of the Marine detachment showed up to force his way onto the Bridge. The wierd thing was this Marine was assigned to the US Army's 9th Infrantry Division at least that was the shoulder patch on his uniform.

lwarmonger
09 Nov 07,, 04:12
A favorite of mine is "Buffalo Soldiers." Not a war movie per se, but funny as hell regardless.

RustyBattleship
09 Nov 07,, 19:50
"Behind Enemy Lines" and "Pearl Harbor" are major ones for me.

I really liked the "Longest Day", but I give it a thumbs down for not having a scene devoted to the Canadians who took Juno beach, and who pushed further inland than any other allied force on that day.

And my thumbs down also goes to all those World War Two documentaries and movies who say that the British took Juno Beach... Its enough to make my skin crawl.

I agree with you and I'm sure the late James Doohan (Scotty of Star Trek) would agree with you. He lost a finger in that landing. But when doing Star Trek (or other shows) he had a way of hiding it from the camera.

But Omaha and Utah were the bloodiest and most hard to take beach heads that cost the most lives on both sides. The British and Canadians had it relatively safer without those cliffs and bunkers.

That is if any part of the largest invasion of human history can be called "safe". Perhaps I should say Gold, Sword and Juno were less fortified and less opposed and not as action packed for a war movie. Though I certainly think somebody would make a movie dedicated to the Canadian and English attacks.

Probably would be too disheartening as they are looking over at the American landings and saying, "Those bloody crazy Yanks. No one in their right mind would be so suicidal".

Officer of Engineers
09 Nov 07,, 21:11
I really liked the "Longest Day", but I give it a thumbs down for not having a scene devoted to the Canadians who took Juno beach, and who pushed further inland than any other allied force on that day.

And my thumbs down also goes to all those World War Two documentaries and movies who say that the British took Juno Beach... Its enough to make my skin crawl.Almost as much as I detest seeing the red Maple Leaf representing the Canadians. It was not even our flag back then.

gunnut
09 Nov 07,, 21:25
I agree with you and I'm sure the late James Doohan (Scotty of Star Trek) would agree with you. He lost a finger in that landing. But when doing Star Trek (or other shows) he had a way of hiding it from the camera.

I heard there was a hand double for Scotty on the set. The close-up of Scotty's hand operating the transporter levers were not his hands.

tankie
10 Nov 07,, 06:56
And my thumbs down also goes to all those World War Two documentaries and movies who say that the British took Juno Beach... Its enough to make my skin crawl.

Thats hollywood for you ? And mine crawls as well when i see the movie which represented the capture of the enigma machine ,, by the , Yanks Dont think so :mad:

1ST by the Polish in 1929 , and then from U-110 by British Commando,s in May 1941 ,and sent to Bletchley park

Feanor
10 Nov 07,, 12:02
I don't know if it's been mentioned but, Enemy at the Gates.

gunnut
10 Nov 07,, 22:54
I don't know if it's been mentioned but, Enemy at the Gates.

It was mentioned in the 1st reply. The opening scene was good. The rest was drama.

RustyBattleship
11 Nov 07,, 01:02
Almost as much as I detest seeing the red Maple Leaf representing the Canadians. It was not even our flag back then.

Now THAT's one of the greatest technical errors of all.

Coming in a close second was the TV show Twelve O'Clock High about B-17 crews in WW II. The American Flag on their jackets had 50 stars.

RustyBattleship
11 Nov 07,, 01:57
Actually, perhaps the worst war movie ever made was so bad I even forgot the name of it. That's bad because I played a Nazi soldier in it.

tankie
11 Nov 07,, 06:44
Actually, perhaps the worst war movie ever made was so bad I even forgot the name of it. That's bad because I played a Nazi soldier in it.

A man of many talents huh ? :)

Low-tech
07 Dec 07,, 08:08
Apocalypse now was based on the book "Heart of Darkness".

Vietnam was just a modern context for the time.

I know alot of folks hate the movie, just an interesting note.



Ok, I don't know if this is hollywood hype about Dr. Strangelove.


Once they read the script, The Pentagon withheld any co-operation with the film so the set designers were forced to reconstruct the cockpit of the B52 bomber from one single photograph in their possession that had been carelessly printed in a British flying magazine and comparing it to the cockpit of the B29 Superfortress, and relating it to the geometry of the B52's fuselage. (In the early 60s, the B52 represented cutting edge technology and access to it was a matter of national security.) When some American Air Force personnel were invited to view the film's reconstruction of the B52 cockpit (which had cost $100,000 to construct), they were astounded to see that it was almost note perfect, so much so that Kubrick feared that Ken Adam's production design team had resorted to illegal moves and could be under investigation from the FBI.

Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) - Trivia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/trivia)

Internet movie database, the trivia section of the Dr. Strangelove page.

funny if true.

militarymafia
01 Jan 08,, 23:10
RED DAWN

The most biased movie ever. 10 collage kids from a small town take on the whole Russian and Cuban army and defeat them each time. :eek: :confused:

Srirangan
02 Jan 08,, 11:16
300 was fiction. It was based on a comic book series. I don't think it counts under "War Movies" even though it had a war which did take place in real life.

bolo121
02 Jan 08,, 17:20
Two good ones were Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan
Loved apocalypse now though just for that beach scene
The worst hollywood one was pearl harbour
and for us indians Border...simply awful

ace16807
04 Jan 08,, 04:58
Battle of the Bulge was pretty darn bad. Seriously, a desert???

Other end would probably be Band of Brothers.

temujin77
04 Jan 08,, 05:03
Other end would probably be Band of Brothers.

"Other end" meaning very accurate?

ghost88
11 Jan 08,, 00:21
Broken Bridges w/ Toby Kieth. This is not a "military movie" but has a back story involving the death of some soilders in a training exercise.
The funny part is is that the civilian home town of these soilders is in Montgomery County,Tennessee, The were in the 103rd Airbourne Division (it was a jump unit not Air Assault) that was home based at Fort Clarksville,Kentucky.
For those unfamilier with the US Army. the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) is stationed at Fort Campbell,Kentucky. Clarksville, Tennessee is right out side of the gates of the fort and is in Montgomery County,Tennessee.

When I saw this movie yesterday( Broken Bridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Bridges) ) I was reminded of this thread.
It also brought to mind two series of books. Colye's(sp) "Team Yankee" series were his US Army units were all units in the Army establishment,but not on the active roster and Ringo's "Posleen Invasion" series of SiFi books were the hero is assigned to the 555th Airborne Regiment " Black Panthers". Ringo's choice of the "Triple Nickle" as a tribute to the only "Negro" Airborne Regiment.

ace16807
11 Jan 08,, 01:15
"Other end" meaning very accurate?

As far as war movies go, yeah.

I just watched Windtalkers again, and the effects were pretty pathetic. Explosions looked like fireworks, the bazooka looked like it was compressed air launched, it all looked really corny.

svs
11 Jan 08,, 03:21
Have you guys ever watched the way John Wayne walked? Harry Carey taught him that style to cover his limp.

Broke a hip when a horse threw him so he was a 4-F.

Ronald Reagan would have been a 4-F also because of his nearsightedness and almost stone deaf in one ear (a blank from a revolver was fired too close to his ear - I think by Errol Flynn). But Ronnie was already an officer in the Reserves (Cavalry at that) and was able to serve active duty though at home. He retired as a Captain but was up for Major when the Army decided he was over aged. Besides Eisenhower, Reagan served more time in uniform than any other President.

Reagan served more time in the reserves? Probably Harry Truman was in the reserves longer (from WWI until 1945) I believe. And I am sure Zachary Taylor was in longer as well. But Reagan does get credit for making one of the most laughable war movies of all time Hellcats of the Navy also starring Nancy, the only movie the two made together. Politics gain was certainly not Hollywood's loss.

sparten
11 Jan 08,, 06:34
^
What about Grant?

rj1
19 Feb 08,, 15:54
Can't believe no one's mentioned any of the Pancho Villa movies as most accurate.

jetjat2000
27 Feb 08,, 03:47
1971 indo pak war Rajastan border Longewala post there was a battle betweem pakistan armour and indian infantry with RCL guns.Well guess what the commander stands up and calls the CO of Pakistan forces in bad words they exchange bad words.Well I have heard of duels but this is :P rediculous.The Hunter aircraft flying at more than 500Kmph saves the CO of indian forces in the nick of time.Well my father who is no more was a 1971 war vetern but in chamb in Kashmir sector .well he had told me about aderline providing a edge and extra sense in human body kicks in due the need to survive but a guy carrying a anti tank mine after being mortally wounded is some what indigestable.

sparten
28 May 08,, 21:08
I agree with you and I'm sure the late James Doohan (Scotty of Star Trek) would agree with you. He lost a finger in that landing. But when doing Star Trek (or other shows) he had a way of hiding it from the camera.

But Omaha and Utah were the bloodiest and most hard to take beach heads that cost the most lives on both sides. The British and Canadians had it relatively safer without those cliffs and bunkers.

That is if any part of the largest invasion of human history can be called "safe". Perhaps I should say Gold, Sword and Juno were less fortified and less opposed and not as action packed for a war movie. Though I certainly think somebody would make a movie dedicated to the Canadian and English attacks.

Probably would be too disheartening as they are looking over at the American landings and saying, "Those bloody crazy Yanks. No one in their right mind would be so suicidal".


Actually pre-landing the toughest beaches were estimated to be Sword, since it was gepgraphically seperated from the other beachs and had the most Germans in front of it and Utah; since it was also seperated. Both beaches were also on the flanks. The easiest were estimated to be Gold, Juno and Omaha. On June the 6th, Omaha was the bloodiest since the German commander unlike the other beaches managed to get his men ready in time, Omar Bradley ordered the naval bombardment to be cut short and the inexperienced 29th ID made a meal of the landing (the veteren first came through well).

In the days after the landing the quitest sector was Port en Bassin (Omaha) and the hottest was the area between Cabourg and Riva Bella (mainly Sword, with the 6th Airbournes landing area included), where the gentlemen of the 21st Panzer wished to reminise about old times in Africa with the Highlanders and the Desert rats. With similar results.

Equilibrium
29 May 08,, 16:04
A personal imperfect favorite was an HBO film called "By Dawn's Early Light".

A Soviet hardliner coup attempt results in a Soviet BOOB attack on the US. The film revolves around three groups of characters. The President, whose helicopter fails to make it out of DC in time before an SLBM warhead bats it out of the sky, James Earl Jones plays the Airborne Command Post CO, Powers Booth is a B52 pilot headed towards the USSR and Rip Torn plays a hard-line US Army battle staff officer aboard the E-4 which finds the Secretary of the Interior as the only surviving successor.

The part of the film that I found grossly inaccurate was when the B-52 crew fights among each other over the decision to continue into the USSR and one crewman pulls the ejection handles, sucking out 2 crewmen except for the pilit/co pilot. Booth and female co-pilot then turn to the PAcific, are intercepted by 2 F-18 tasks to shoot them down, but their carrier is torpedoed and they relent out of sympathy.

The movie's climax is great though. The President, blinded and suffering severe trauma is discovered and brought to the FEMA station at Olney Maryland, where he discovered that the S of I has authorized a full SLBM attack on the USSR after the ICBM's have already been exchanged. The Soviet premier has agreed to cease hostilities and the President contacts the S of I to get him to return command to him, but the S of I influenced by Torn's character believes that the Soviets have left themselves open to destruction and has transmitted a waening code to the TACAMO aircraft which are now awaiting confirmation for the strike order.

In the meantime, the Looking Glass, with James Earl Jones recognizing the command of the President strikes an intercept course with the E4 and collides with it as the S of I and Torn were about to transmit the launch order. Hostilities then end.

Innacurrate but dramatically effective.

Fiona Shrot
30 May 08,, 05:21
Pearl Harbor and some old Chinese ones...-_-|

TopHatter
30 May 08,, 18:48
A personal imperfect favorite was an HBO film called "By Dawn's Early Light".

I saw that once, many years ago.

You're right about the accuracy and dramatic effectiveness.

Was definitely a bang-up ending.

gunnut
30 May 08,, 19:39
RED DAWN

The most biased movie ever. 10 collage kids from a small town take on the whole Russian and Cuban army and defeat them each time. :eek: :confused:

That's because the number of Soviet and Cuban soldiers that can reach the US and fight are possible to defeat by 10 college kids. Of course they would have to be midwest kids. College students from UC Berzerkley and other fine coastal insitutions would probably join the fight against the proliteriat.

gunnut
30 May 08,, 19:43
Actually, perhaps the worst war movie ever made was so bad I even forgot the name of it. That's bad because I played a Nazi soldier in it.

Spock: sir, you make a convincing Nazi.

Kirk: ...

From Star Trek TOS: Patterns of Force

TopHatter
30 May 08,, 22:45
College students from UC Berzerkley and other fine coastal insitutions would probably join the fight against the proliteriat.

They'd be Fifth Columnists long before the fight even began.

Johnny W
12 Jun 08,, 16:03
This thread could have stopped when Pearl Harbor was mentioned. While the movie itself wasn't that terrible, Ben Afleck's character was ridiculous. And it seemed as if the whole battle was a backdrop for the love fued.

Knaur Amarsh
12 Jun 08,, 19:00
1971 indo pak war Rajastan border Longewala post there was a battle betweem pakistan armour and indian infantry with RCL guns.Well guess what the commander stands up and calls the CO of Pakistan forces in bad words they exchange bad words.Well I have heard of duels but this is :P rediculous.The Hunter aircraft flying at more than 500Kmph saves the CO of indian forces in the nick of time.Well my father who is no more was a 1971 war vetern but in chamb in Kashmir sector .well he had told me about aderline providing a edge and extra sense in human body kicks in due the need to survive but a guy carrying a anti tank mine after being mortally wounded is some what indigestable.

I agree:biggrin:Border's gotta take da cake

Blackleaf
03 Sep 08,, 20:00
The American movie U-571 is about the American military capturing the Enigma machine from the Nazis despite the fact that in real life it was the British who captured it.

Though Hollywood has a long history of giving America credit for things that other nations achieved.

BD1
03 Sep 08,, 20:10
Back in soviet days i saw a North Korean war movie once.
:))
Beat that, all of you...

ace16807
03 Sep 08,, 20:24
Back in soviet days i saw a North Korean war movie once.
:))
Beat that, all of you...

I dunno. Some of those early Egyptian war flicks about the 6 Day War and such had the Egyptians win in the end...

rj1
03 Sep 08,, 20:39
Back in soviet days i saw a North Korean war movie once.
:))
Beat that, all of you...

300?

Officer of Engineers
03 Sep 08,, 21:29
Back in soviet days i saw a North Korean war movie once.
:))
Beat that, all of you...Godzilla

troung
03 Sep 08,, 23:29
Though Hollywood has a long history of giving America credit for things that other nations achieved.

It is a movie, and an AMERICAN movie.

TopHatter
04 Sep 08,, 00:00
The American movie U-571 is about the American military capturing the Enigma machine from the Nazis despite the fact that in real life it was the British who captured it.

Though Hollywood has a long history of giving America credit for things that other nations achieved.

In fact, the US Navy did capture an Enigma machine (and oh yeah, the entire U-boat that was carrying it...she's quite lovely, you should visit her sometime in Chicago)

Tarek Morgen
04 Sep 08,, 02:01
In fact, the US Navy did capture an Enigma machine (and oh yeah, the entire U-boat that was carrying it...she's quite lovely, you should visit her sometime in Chicago)

And the captain was almost put before a court-martial for it.

TopHatter
04 Sep 08,, 03:21
And the captain was almost put before a court-martial for it.

Daniel V. Gallery, yes.

Triple C
04 Sep 08,, 11:42
Ever watched Russian WWII movies shot during the fifties? :eek: Combat is only slightly better.

VarSity
04 Sep 08,, 16:51
In fact, the US Navy did capture an Enigma machine (and oh yeah, the entire U-boat that was carrying it...she's quite lovely, you should visit her sometime in Chicago)

Yes, but they captured it around about the time the Nazi's started to sell enigma machines as garage sales.

GraniteForge
04 Sep 08,, 17:45
Ever watched Russian WWII movies shot during the fifties? :eek: Combat is only slightly better.

I watched some in the mid-1970s while in the USSR.

I vividly remember one climactic scene where partisans with bolt-action rifles ambushed an SS Panzer unit in a small valley, as the Germans approached a bridge. The partisans started working those bolts, and suddenly tanks are blowing up and tumbling into the river, and the accompanying German infantry is mowed down as if the partisans have miniguns. At the end of the film, the column of partisans turns their backs on the burning panzers and walks back into the forest as heroic music swells. The last man in line suddenly turns and looks back over his shoulder, giving a burning, level gaze into the camera. The frame freezes, the music swells, the end. Inaccurate, but Great stuff.

TopHatter
04 Sep 08,, 18:53
Yes, but they captured it around about the time the Nazi's started to sell enigma machines as garage sales.

British writer Hugh Sebag-Montefiore (http://www.amazon.com/Enigma-Battle-Code-Hugh-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/0471490350/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220550744&sr=1-2) disagrees with you ;)


The capture of codebooks on U-505 allowed Allied cryptanalysts to break the special "coordinate" code in enciphered German messages and determine more precise locations for U-boat operating areas.

In addition to directing hunter-killer task groups to these locations, these coordinates enabled Allied convoy commanders to route shipping away from known U-boat locations, greatly inhibiting the effectiveness of German submarine patrols.

The material captured from U-505 arrived at Bletchley Park on 20 June 1944, and, in addition to the coordinate code, included the regular and Offizier settings for June 1944, the current short weather codebook, and the short signal codebook and bigram tables due to come into effect in July and August respectively

BD1
04 Sep 08,, 21:31
I dunno. Some of those early Egyptian war flicks about the 6 Day War and such had the Egyptians win in the end...
i give you the benefit of doubt (?)

BD1
04 Sep 08,, 21:32
300?
less over-the-top and probably more accurate. Next!

BD1
04 Sep 08,, 21:34
Godzilla
It has Jean Reno, therefore automatically it is a good movie.

ace16807
04 Sep 08,, 22:51
i give you the benefit of doubt (?)

Well, they're about the same level, based off the few N. Korean propaganda films I've seen. 300 isn't nearly as bad. It's based off a true event, and the proper side won.

Triple C
05 Sep 08,, 06:00
I watched some in the mid-1970s while in the USSR.

I vividly remember one climactic scene where partisans with bolt-action rifles ambushed an SS Panzer unit in a small valley, as the Germans approached a bridge. The partisans started working those bolts, and suddenly tanks are blowing up and tumbling into the river, and the accompanying German infantry is mowed down as if the partisans have miniguns. At the end of the film, the column of partisans turns their backs on the burning panzers and walks back into the forest as heroic music swells. The last man in line suddenly turns and looks back over his shoulder, giving a burning, level gaze into the camera. The frame freezes, the music swells, the end. Inaccurate, but Great stuff.


Soviet war movies in the 70s are great movies from a technical perspective. The most brutal war movie I have ever seen, and I doubt anything could ever top it off counting any Hollyhood exploitation film, is Come and See, another one about partisan warfare. The protagonist is an underaged boy who tries to join the partisans and in consequence the his village razed by German retaliatory action. The most horrific segment of the film was when the boy was trapped with hapless farmers in a barn, and the Germans set fire to it. Not a film for kiddies, that's for sure!

GraniteForge
05 Sep 08,, 16:16
Soviet war movies in the 70s are great movies from a technical perspective. The most brutal war movie I have ever seen, and I doubt anything could ever top it off counting any Hollyhood exploitation film, is Come and See, another one about partisan warfare. The protagonist is an underaged boy who tries to join the partisans and in consequence the his village razed by German retaliatory action. The most horrific segment of the film was when the boy was trapped with hapless farmers in a barn, and the Germans set fire to it. Not a film for kiddies, that's for sure!

I hadn't heard of it, but the Russian movie vendor Ruscico sells a DVD of Come and See.

Have you ever see the Soviet version of War and Peace?

When TV stations in the market where I grew up first began broadcasting longer hours, one of the staions had a copy that they would put on. It ran all night, more than 6 hours without commercials. Surprisingly, that was an edited version, the full film running about 8 hours. It is far and away the most expensive movie ever made, over $100 million in 1968.
War and Peace (1968 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_and_Peace_(1968_film))

Triple C
09 Sep 08,, 20:36
I have not seen it, but allegedly, it was either war and peace or alexander nievskii in which the cavalry actually managed to rout the conscripts playing double for the battle scenes!

CGXC runner
10 Sep 08,, 01:58
I know that Pearl Harbor has been mentioned here numerous times, but I was watching the attack scene last night and noticed that when they didn't have a seen involving battleships the ships being attacked were MODERN destroyers/frigate. One even had a helo pad.:biggrin::biggrin::mad::(:confused:

Doomarias
06 Nov 08,, 08:07
Stealth---horrible

Big Red One----Luke Skywalker is a bad grunt

and even though i love it, its really inaccurate The devils brigade

NDNCABOOSE
28 Nov 08,, 17:45
the 1960s movie : 300 spartans
absolute inaccuracy
tried too hard to use Persians as soviet parallel
and spartans as American parallel
They went as far as saying Persia was a nation of slaves, when everyone should know Persia was relatively more free than Sparta

Officer of Engineers
28 Nov 08,, 17:49
You were looking for messages? The wooden acting alone was enough to make me want to stick pins in my eyes.

Shiny Capstar
28 Nov 08,, 23:39
You were looking for messages? The wooden acting alone was enough to make me want to stick pins in my eyes.

It made me want to stick pins in the actor's eyes, but each to their own.

Proyas
01 Dec 08,, 20:18
"Windtalkers" sucked. The whole "indestructible super-soldier accompanied by lesser expendable guys who get killed off" formula doesn't apply in real life.

RustyBattleship
01 Dec 08,, 22:59
I know that Pearl Harbor has been mentioned here numerous times, but I was watching the attack scene last night and noticed that when they didn't have a seen involving battleships the ships being attacked were MODERN destroyers/frigate. One even had a helo pad.:biggrin::biggrin::mad::(:confused:

The only Pearl Harbor movie made that had reasonably accurate vintage "ships" in it was Tora Tora Tora. The movie studio built 40 foot long models of the Battleships. Only the Nevada model survives today and is stored at the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station. Except for last month's Veteran's Day Parade in north Long Beach. I rode in the truck towing the model. Just can't get away from the Battleships.

For close ups on a "Battleship", two barges were welded together and had a lightweight superstructure built up on them. To simulate cone-headed rivets, they filled cut-off Dixie Cups with a putty and "plopped" them into place.

In "I Bombed Pearl Harbor", a Japanese made movie, smaller models were used. In the TV mini-series "War and Rememberence" (a sequel to "Winds of War"), starring Robert Mitchum, the attack scenes were staged at Port Hueneme, California and also using modern ships.

In the "Disney" movie "Pearl Harbor", a lot of CGI was used and was pretty effective. But the scene of the shells falling out of shelves and sounding like empty Oxygen bottles bouncing around really made me groan.

Kernow
01 Dec 08,, 23:09
Brave Heart.

Let's forget the fact that kilts weren't worn in Scotland until about 300 years after William Wallace's day and just do some simple math. According to the movie, Wallace's blue-eyed charm at the Battle of Falkirk was so overpowering, he seduced King Edward II's wife, Isabella of France, and the result of their affair was Edward III. But according to the history books, Isabella was three years old at the time of Falkirk, and Edward III was born seven years after Wallace died.

pate
02 Dec 08,, 10:24
Has anyone mentioned "Red Dawn?" I love that movie, and I hate communists, but come on? Really? Nuke the Midwest? The mountains survive? C'mon Colorado. Statewide public smoking ban? Is there a real man among you? Denver Broncos? Heh. Where are the Colorado 'Wolverines'? I still love the movie, horribly innaccurate as it is...

"WOLVERINES!!@!"

Ironduke
23 Dec 08,, 10:49
The only Pearl Harbor movie made that had reasonably accurate vintage "ships" in it was Tora Tora Tora. The movie studio built 40 foot long models of the Battleships. Only the Nevada model survives today and is stored at the Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station. Except for last month's Veteran's Day Parade in north Long Beach. I rode in the truck towing the model. Just can't get away from the Battleships.

For close ups on a "Battleship", two barges were welded together and had a lightweight superstructure built up on them. To simulate cone-headed rivets, they filled cut-off Dixie Cups with a putty and "plopped" them into place.

In "I Bombed Pearl Harbor", a Japanese made movie, smaller models were used. In the TV mini-series "War and Rememberence" (a sequel to "Winds of War"), starring Robert Mitchum, the attack scenes were staged at Port Hueneme, California and also using modern ships.

In the "Disney" movie "Pearl Harbor", a lot of CGI was used and was pretty effective. But the scene of the shells falling out of shelves and sounding like empty Oxygen bottles bouncing around really made me groan.
My grandpa insisted that I go to the theater and watch the movie with him -- he was 14 at the time of the attack and was to join the Navy in 1944. Afterwards he said he was disappointed... I think he really got his hopes up thinking it would be a truly great movie -- the bit about the love story interwoven into the movie turned him off.

xinhui
23 Dec 08,, 19:23
Pearl Harbor, two words -- Kate Beckinsale

Speaking of which, Underworld: Rise of the Lycans is going to suck and not in a vampire way

YoungIndia
06 Jan 09,, 08:17
Ever watched Russian WWII movies shot during the fifties? :eek: Combat is only slightly better.


There are two classics from the period- "the cranes are flying" and ballad of a soldier(where a soldier goes on leave but in the end could see his mother for only a few mins before returning!)...Usually u find these movies in the all time 100 great movie lists....neither concerned with combat....

i have seen more recent films like "last armored train","the star" as well

tankie
06 Jan 09,, 17:34
Battle of the Bulge ,

Where the US tanks took on the German tanks , all sides had Shermans and were all in positions a tank cmdr would never place his veh , imagine the scenario , right lads advance , all spread out in a straight close line , bunch up ,and engage the enemy when you see the whites of their eyes

Hollywood cheap budget shit :frown:

Shiny Capstar
06 Jan 09,, 18:54
Brave Heart.

Let's forget the fact that kilts weren't worn in Scotland until about 300 years after William Wallace's day and just do some simple math. According to the movie, Wallace's blue-eyed charm at the Battle of Falkirk was so overpowering, he seduced King Edward II's wife, Isabella of France, and the result of their affair was Edward III. But according to the history books, Isabella was three years old at the time of Falkirk, and Edward III was born seven years after Wallace died.

Don't forget the massive inaccuracies in the battles.

Bigred
28 Jan 09,, 19:48
I'll go with Fahrenheit 9/11.

HistoricalDavid
29 Jan 09,, 22:07
Battle of the Bulge ,

Where the US tanks took on the German tanks , all sides had Shermans and were all in positions a tank cmdr would never place his veh , imagine the scenario , right lads advance , all spread out in a straight close line , bunch up ,and engage the enemy when you see the whites of their eyes

Hollywood cheap budget shit :frown:

You saw it on TV recently too eh... I flick on the TV, see Shermans with crosses on them and think, "aw bless, budget constraints..." but then notice the wide open plain-like countryside and warm weather. The Battle of the Bulge was fought in the Ardennes in the snow/fogbound winter of 1944/5!!! AAAH!


I'll go with Fahrenheit 9/11.

Couldn't resist, could ya.

gunnut
29 Jan 09,, 22:26
I believe those were M-47 Pattons acting the part of the Tigers and M-24 Chaffees playing the part of Shermans.

It's not that bad. We have a bunch of actors playing the part of soldiers but we don't complain about that.

What's really bad is the horribly unrealistic engagement distance, especially A2G missions, and the giant fireballs from explosions. Most unforgiving of all is when a character literally outruns an explosion.:rolleyes:

Doomarias
29 Jan 09,, 22:30
I believe those were M-47 Pattons acting the part of the Tigers and M-24 Chaffees playing the part of Shermans.

It's not that bad. We have a bunch of actors playing the part of soldiers but we don't complain about that.

What's really bad is the horribly unrealistic engagement distance, especially A2G missions, and the giant fireballs from explosions. Most unforgiving of all is when a character literally outruns an explosion.:rolleyes:

You know shrapnel isnt that fast!

gunnut
29 Jan 09,, 22:52
You know shrapnel isnt that fast!

Faster than any humans on the run.

Doomarias
29 Jan 09,, 22:57
hope my sarcasm came through

Kernow
30 Jan 09,, 00:35
Apocolypse Now - Laughable.

tankie
30 Jan 09,, 11:19
You saw it on TV recently too eh... I flick on the TV, see Shermans with crosses on them and think, "aw bless, budget constraints..." but then notice the wide open plain-like countryside and warm weather. The Battle of the Bulge was fought in the Ardennes in the snow/fogbound winter of 1944/5!!! AAAH!

:biggrin:David , i only watched about 10 minutes of it ,after flicking through the channels, couldnt take anymore ,, a joke :biggrin:

Bigred
30 Jan 09,, 21:34
Couldn't resist, could ya.

Nope. It was just too easy.

Blue
31 Jan 09,, 02:41
For some reason:rolleyes: I tend to criticize sniper movies. I liked enemy at the gates, regardless, it was a good story and based on reality.

Sniper w/ Tom Berenger was awful but the most suck out loud of all time was Shooter w/that Wahlberg guy. Stunk so bad it took a week to get the smell out of my DVD player.

Doomarias
31 Jan 09,, 02:48
For some reason:rolleyes: I tend to criticize sniper movies. I liked enemy at the gates, regardless, it was a good story and based on reality.

Sniper w/ Tom Berenger was awful but the most suck out loud of all time was Shooter w/that Wahlberg guy. Stunk so bad it took a week to get the smell out of my DVD player.

dude dont diss the Berenger

Blue
31 Jan 09,, 02:58
dude dont diss the Berenger Oh I like Berenger OK. But an american sniper with a PSG 1 (Billy Zanes character) puhleeze!!!! If you EVER get the chance to just hold one, pick it up and tell me you are going to hump that pig over half of Colombia.:P

Doomarias
31 Jan 09,, 03:38
Oh I like Berenger OK. But an american sniper with a PSG 1 (Billy Zanes character) puhleeze!!!! If you EVER get the chance to just hold one, pick it up and tell me you are going to hump that pig over half of Colombia.:P

But the point was zane was completely unprepared for the mission, Berenger made fun of him for it. Zane was an Olympic shooter and FBI guy he was picked for his supposed ability to follow orders.

Sorry i liked that movie:) but yah wasnt best sniper docu

PatriotSon
12 Jul 09,, 07:46
I know this doesn't count but Transformers 2 has to be mentioned. When the line "fire at the top of the pyramid" is issued as a legitimate order than it has lost all credibility.

cirrrocco
13 Jul 09,, 22:30
Pearl Harbour was a shocker.

There was a good one a few years ago about two guys in the balkans who were trying to kill each other and the UN ended up in the middle. That was a good one, will try to find out the name of it.


No man's land. It was a great movie.

No Man's Land (2001) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0283509/)

DragoonGuard
14 Jul 09,, 22:17
They are the Spanish versions. Probably not any He-111's in flyable condition. Conversely the Spanish ones served well into the fifties.

Its a great movie, but its not just the bombers, you see lots of shots of the Spanish built 109's painted to look like Brit Hurricanes/Spits too.

DragoonGuard
14 Jul 09,, 22:30
Battle of the Bulge ,

Where the US tanks took on the German tanks , all sides had Shermans and were all in positions a tank cmdr would never place his veh , imagine the scenario , right lads advance , all spread out in a straight close line , bunch up ,and engage the enemy when you see the whites of their eyes

Hollywood cheap budget shit :frown:

Loved the bit where Telly Savalas' wagon gets hit, looses most of the turret, - And they are standing there with blackened faces like Wylie Coyotie when his dynamite goes off too soon!

LMAO!


'Beast of War' an eighties effort. A lone T-55 in Afghanistan being pursued by Mujaheddin, - Where The hell were they getting all their fuel from?

They were motorin for days & days with out a replen??

Proyas
21 Jul 09,, 03:32
Loved the bit where Telly Savalas' wagon gets hit, looses most of the turret, - And they are standing there with blackened faces like Wylie Coyotie when his dynamite goes off too soon!

LMAO!


'Beast of War' an eighties effort. A lone T-55 in Afghanistan being pursued by Mujaheddin, - Where The hell were they getting all their fuel from?

They were motorin for days & days with out a replen??
Nice M2 machine gun on top, too. You'd think the producers would have been able to scrape up a DshK or whatever. There have got to be a million of the things floating around.

BBwarrior
29 Jul 09,, 08:07
Most inaccurate? Any Iron Eagle movie - they're all horrible.
One of my favorites was the Bedford Incident.

Dreadnought
29 Jul 09,, 14:43
Hows about The Incredible Mr. Limpet with Don Knotts.:));)

tankie
01 Aug 09,, 11:58
Im watching 633 sqd , its about the mosquito sqd who bombed the German fuel depots , and it looks like the germans invented the saracen 6 wheeled vehicle which i was using in N/I , hahahahah cheapskate movie makers

kato
06 Aug 09,, 20:21
Ah, '64 West-German movie - no wonder. Interesting that he went for Rhine Army vehicles though, most producers back then got units from the German borderguard or Bundeswehr. Sure it didn't have a 76mm cannon?

The earlier 50s West-German WW2 movies occasionally have M8 Greyhounds, M47s and similar fighting on the German side ;-)

Skywatcher
06 Aug 09,, 23:17
Ah, '64 West-German movie - no wonder. Interesting that he went for Rhine Army vehicles though, most producers back then got units from the German borderguard or Bundeswehr. Sure it didn't have a 76mm cannon?

The earlier 50s West-German WW2 movies occasionally have M8 Greyhounds, M47s and similar fighting on the German side ;-)

So exactly how many movies did they make about Skorenzy's special unit? :))

kato
08 Aug 09,, 04:11
Well, there are four movies about it in the 60s and 70s... can't think of any movies about Skorzeny from Germany though.

Skorzeny was considered pretty much persona non grata in Germany postwar. Mostly because he was the one behind late-war plans for German kamikaze bombers and manned cruised missiles... and then there was the fact that he fled from prison in '48 of course and remained a fugitive criminal to West Germany until he died.

Skywatcher
08 Aug 09,, 07:36
Well, there are four movies about it in the 60s and 70s... can't think of any movies about Skorzeny from Germany though.

Skorzeny was considered pretty much persona non grata in Germany postwar. Mostly because he was the one behind late-war plans for German kamikaze bombers and manned cruised missiles... and then there was the fact that he fled from prison in '48 of course and remained a fugitive criminal to West Germany until he died.

I meant the unit in the Battle of the Bulge using captured American equipment and painted over Panthers.

Rumrunner
10 Aug 09,, 16:12
I'm gonna nominate Operation Valkerie - Never saw it, never will, but Tom Cruise being such a self-indulgent as$-clown and not attempting (thankfully?) a German accent sorta throws the whole movie off.

Gun Grape
15 Aug 09,, 20:34
Was watching Force 10 from Navarone Last night.

The German T-34/85s looked great.:rolleyes:

Skywatcher
16 Aug 09,, 01:06
I'm gonna nominate Operation Valkerie - Never saw it, never will, but Tom Cruise being such a self-indulgent as$-clown and not attempting (thankfully?) a German accent sorta throws the whole movie off.

Isn't he a little too short for the role (heck, even I am taller than Cruise).

clackers
16 Aug 09,, 13:30
I'm gonna nominate Operation Valkerie - Never saw it, never will, but Tom Cruise being such a self-indulgent as$-clown and not attempting (thankfully?) a German accent sorta throws the whole movie off.

Do any of the other actors in the film attempt Hogan's Heroes accents, though, Rumrunner?

Did it concern you that in the BBC series I, Claudius or the HBO series Rome the English cast weren't speaking Latin?

There was a quite enjoyable Austrian-German TV film which I saw called Stauffenberg covering the same events as Operation Valkyrie ... it's in German, so you'll have to read the subtitles if you really think the original language is a pre-requisite for a good film.

Rumrunner
17 Aug 09,, 21:34
Do any of the other actors in the film attempt Hogan's Heroes accents, though, Rumrunner?

Did it concern you that in the BBC series I, Claudius or the HBO series Rome the English cast weren't speaking Latin?

There was a quite enjoyable Austrian-German TV film which I saw called Stauffenberg covering the same events as Operation Valkyrie ... it's in German, so you'll have to read the subtitles if you really think the original language is a pre-requisite for a good film.

I think at least attempting a Col. Clink accent couldnt have hurt...or could it? This is Tom Cruise after all...:biggrin:

I agree with ya that the Rome series should have been in Latin to make it 100% accurate, but then ya run into the problem that the handful of people who speak and understand Latin (my father being one of them) wont cover the production costs, let alone marketing....

Personally I think it's a stupid and possibly only an American movie & TV practice that every dipiction of a historical people or figure has everybody speaking with an English accent. To a certain extent you have surrender to the movie's inaccuracies and just enjoy the film you paid $12 to see. But sorry, Cruise not even attempting a German accent while I assume everyone else was is nothing more that blatant self indulgency on his part and would have ruined the film for me, had I seen it.

RustyBattleship
18 Aug 09,, 07:27
I But sorry, Cruise not even attempting a German accent while I assume everyone else was is nothing more that blatant self indulgency on his part and would have ruined the film for me, had I seen it.

I have not seen the movie. I might when it comes out on disk and my daughter loans me her copy.

But I am forever thankful that Cruise did not attempt a German accent. He would have made it even more laughable than his Irish accent in "Far and Away".

That would have been a good movie hadn't been for his accent. I am a fan of Colm Meany but his accent is genuine (met him at a Star Trek con a few years ago).

There are some people who have an ear for accents. My youngest brother did and he played several characters with accents in a number of local stage shows.

Tankguy
21 Aug 09,, 04:15
Iron Eagle II. When the "BMPs" came rolling out, priceless. M113s with some horrible, obviously non-stabilized weapon system firing propane plumes. I was still in high school and didn't but any of it.

ace009
17 Aug 10,, 18:42
If you really want laughable War Movies, go watch Bollywood - LOC, Tiranga etc etc etc .... You cannot imagine how idiotic and comic they make war look like.

YellowFever
22 Aug 10,, 09:04
:mad:

bigross86
22 Aug 10,, 09:26
Never gets boring... :biggrin:

YellowFever
22 Aug 10,, 09:33
You realize we're actually posting without insulting each other???

Wow..so weird..

bigross86
22 Aug 10,, 10:11
We're insulting the poor schlub that decided to become a third party. Serves him right for not reading the Survival Thread...

Albany Rifles
24 Aug 10,, 20:46
You two knock off this conviviality....its given the WAB a bad smell!

YellowFever
24 Aug 10,, 21:04
I swear, it's gotta be grossie!

I showered recently!

It was one of the worse Independence Day ever. :mad:

USSWisconsin
24 Aug 10,, 21:48
a fun but rediculous film is "Raid on Rommel" with Richard Burton - his group of a half dozen misc. stranded cooks and supply soldiers fight their way across North Africa, capturing German tanks and artillery and using them with first shot kill effectiveness. They are captured, meet Rommel, beat him at chess, spit in his eye, escape and then defeat him and the Africa Corps.

Wayfarer
28 Aug 10,, 00:57
Enemy at the Gates... littered with stereotypes, and the addition of a love triangle.. jeez what were they thinking, no worse way to pay respects to the men who fought at Stalingrad.

Aussiegunner
30 Aug 10,, 14:04
By those standards...

Top Gun is right at the top of my list.

I especially love how a multi-billion dollar aircraft carrier with 5000+ sailors (valuable asset? Nah...:rolleyes: ) and 90+ aircraft on board is only capable of launching THREE fighter aircraft for it's defense, mainly because Cats 3 and 4 picked a really odd time to simultaneously go down and Cats 1 and 2 must have been on a coffee break or something...

Those are the only inaccuracies you noticed? What about the "Mig-28s" which were going to launch Exocet missiles with a 100 mile range at the carrier, and which had to be visually intercepted by BVR capable F-14's?

I also think it is inaccurate to portray Tom Cruise as being able to make Kelly McGillis c*m...

Aussiegunner
30 Aug 10,, 14:05
Braveheart. Yeah, Wallace rebels against the King somewhere in Scotland and then boinks his woman(consenting) right under his heavily fortified nose! :rolleyes:

Especially when the said woman was a French princess who was in real life a baby at the time that Wallace was waging his campaign.

USSWisconsin
30 Aug 10,, 15:07
Especially when the said woman was a French princess who was in real life a baby at the time that Wallace was waging his campaign.

Poor old Mell -- now child abuse? (baby boinkin) ;) We Were Soldier's Once -- Mell in frontal charge on a VC regiment with whats left of a platoon... His politics and wife beating activities really have taken a notch out of his acting credentials for me

bigross86
30 Aug 10,, 15:09
Politics? Oh, his antisemitism... Got it...

USSWisconsin
30 Aug 10,, 16:17
Politics? Oh, his antisemitism... Got it...

exactly - before he started talking about his antisemitic bigoted idea's -- I enjoyed his movies, now everytime I see him in a movie, his stupidity gets in the way of my enjoyment

xinhui
06 Sep 10,, 05:20
You can watch the new Korean Korea war movie "Into the Fire" from youtube in HD

71: Into the Fire (2010) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1587729/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUtLYZfIbfg&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUtLYZfIbfg&feature=related

YoungIndia
06 Sep 10,, 08:27
Into the Fire (2010)

is this good? i have watched brother hood and a few other movies. also "the foundation of a republic" glorifying you know how :)

xinhui
06 Sep 10,, 19:17
not really, that is why it is in this thread.

sappersgt
06 Sep 10,, 22:55
It reminded me of a play that had been moved outdoors for filming, special effects added.

Skywatcher
07 Sep 10,, 21:58
It reminded me of a play that had been moved outdoors for filming, special effects added.

You could partially blame that on the dubbing.

avon1944
13 Sep 10,, 05:45
My candidates for the most inaccurate movies are;
Dr Strangelove "How I Learn To Love and Not Fear The Bomb"

Midway!

bigross86
13 Sep 10,, 09:06
I think Dr. Strangelove was actually one of the most accurate war movies out there...

redco
21 Sep 10,, 23:40
I'm gonna nominate Operation Valkerie - Never saw it, never will, but Tom Cruise being such a self-indulgent as$-clown and not attempting (thankfully?) a German accent sorta throws the whole movie off.
Its not a bad movie, and oddly enough Tom Cruise is OK in the lead role.

jlvfr
29 Sep 10,, 18:06
Well, since someone rebooted the thread..

"Independence Day". Amongst the many stupid ideas of the movie, the worst (for me) is this: in the final attacj, when the ship's shields go down, the USAF (all of wich seem to fly F-18s?...) attach it with... AMRAAMs and Sidewinders?!

What the heck?! Something that big and slow?! Where are the Harpoon ASMs, the 2000 pound LGBs?

1979
29 Sep 10,, 18:11
I tended to agree with you, until i have read the last line ...
C`mon, they have the tehnology to travel light years away and dont even have a decent antivirus ?

YellowFever
01 Oct 10,, 03:36
Anybody see the movie, "The Final Countdown" with Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen made in 1980 or so?

The premise of the movie is that the USS Nimitz goes through some kind of a wormhole and travels back in time to December 6, 1941.

The captain (Douglas) weighs the "Should I stop the Japanese from bombing Pearl or should I just let history take it's course" dilemma and the movie pretty much sucks because all the extras are real sailors that can't act worth a damn but the flight sequences and the air combat scenes (Two Zero's get shot down by Tomcats) were some of the most realistic scenes I've seen in a movie.

One thing I really appreciated was that the canon sound of the F-14 (one short "bbbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr") as opposed to the bangbangbangbangbang sound you hear in Top Gun. :)

It's stupid but that canon shot in Top Gun really annoys the hell out of me.

USSWisconsin
01 Oct 10,, 05:45
I used to think it was laughable when the Japanese officer in a movie had a Luger, but now I understand that many of them did :redface:

redco
02 Oct 10,, 21:44
Anybody see the movie, "The Final Countdown" with Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen made in 1980 or so?.
I have....I'd managed to forget about it until you reminded me.....Thanks !!!!:hammer:

;)

YellowFever
04 Oct 10,, 21:43
I have....I'd managed to forget about it until you reminded me.....Thanks !!!!:hammer:

;)

Ah, quit yer whining.

To a snot nosed teenager, like I was at the time, that movie was awesome!

You're right though, the movie utterly sucked. But the flight scenes were still cool! :biggrin:

xinhui
16 Oct 10,, 07:19
"Top Gun" sequel in the works - Trending - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/news/trending/2010/10/15/top_gun_sequel)

Friday, Oct 15, 2010 15:16 ET
"Top Gun" sequel in the works
Take my breath away: Tom Cruise, Jerry Bruckheimer and director Tony Scott are offered to reprise the 1986 classic Video
By Chris Le

*

Tom Cruise in Top Gun
Paramount Pictures
Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

I don't know what's gotten into me but I suddenly feel the need … the need for speed!

Oh yeah! It's because Paramount Pictures has made offers to director Tony Scott and producer Jerry Bruckheimer, master of the gratuitous explosion scene himself, to follow up their 1986 classic "Top Gun." Furthermore, the rumor mill is whispering that Tom Cruise has agreed to reprise his role as Maverick, providing it's not too "obvious." Initial reports say a cameo as a flight instructor, a la Tom Skerritt as Viper, is a no-go. Let's just hope another homoerotic volleyball scene in skintight jeans isn't in the "too obvious" category.

Tabbed to pen the script is Oscar-winning screenwriter Christopher McQuarrie ("The Usual Suspects"), who recently impressed Hollywood fat cats with a screenplay for the "Wolverine" sequel.

McQuarrie, though, will have his work cut out for him. "The aviation community has completely changed since we made the movie a long time ago," Bruckheimer said last June at a press junket. The real life "Top Gun" programs of today are nothing like the ones in the movie. Modern pilots aren't so much trained in the graceful art of dog-fighting as they are in the explosive, if cinematically less-exciting, practice of bomb-dropping. So expect fewer high speed chases in the sky and more ho-hum target locations at low altitudes.

But why make yet another sequel?

Two reasons. First, the original was a monster hit, grossing $353 million worldwide, which translates to about $699 million in today's dollars. Secondly, David Ellison, a film producer with a passion for aerobatics. He's also the son of Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle and the sixth richest man in the world. My guess is that helps a bit, considering David is set to finance "Top Gun 2." Ellison is already buddy buddy with Paramount Pictures after he raised $350 million for the forthcoming "Mission: Impossible IV" … starring Tom Cruise. Ellison, even though he was 3 years old when "Top Gun" first hit theaters, definitely hasn't lost that loving feeling.

For kicks, here's a clip from "Sleep With Me," in which Quentin Tarantino explains how "Top Gun" is really a story about a man struggling with his own homosexuality.

xinhui
16 Oct 10,, 07:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzY9a-WmE6o&feature=player_embedded

Chogy
16 Oct 10,, 16:01
Lord no, not another TOP GUN... Please, let it die.

I was active duty when it was released, and any time I interacted with the general public, I spent probably 30% of it being forced to explain "No, there is no MiG-28, when aircraft are splashed, they don't simply stop in midair and become a fireball (ever hear of inertia?), the flying was all too close, we don't play volleyball and shower together, ad nauseum"

I doubt any movie could gather together more bad cliches and present them as reality.

There was one benefit from Top Gun... We'd do air shows on occasion. The Tomcat guys were swarmed with hordes of pimply teens, while we got all the attention of the cute and hot young things! ;)

tankie
16 Oct 10,, 16:50
Lord no, not another TOP GUN... Please, let it die.

I was active duty when it was released, and any time I interacted with the general public, I spent probably 30% of it being forced to explain "No, there is no MiG-28, when aircraft are splashed, they don't simply stop in midair and become a fireball (ever hear of inertia?), the flying was all too close, we don't play volleyball and shower together, ad nauseum"

I doubt any movie could gather together more bad cliches and present them as reality.

There was one benefit from Top Gun... We'd do air shows on occasion. The Tomcat guys were swarmed with hordes of pimply teens, while we got all the attention of the cute and hot young things! ;)


:biggrin::biggrin:

jlvfr
17 Oct 10,, 11:47
Last night, one of my fav "war" movies returned to TV: "Red October". Leaving aside the air part (everything on the carrier), what do you folks think of the movie?

bigross86
17 Oct 10,, 12:56
Hunt for Red October is one of my favorite movies. It introduced me to Tom Clancy, and Sean Connery going "One ping only, Vasily" is a classic line.

Granted, it strays immensely from the book (and leaves out the part with the Hawgs, which was an awesome part), but I still think it wasn't that bad. For a military movie, it got most of the facts right, which is more than can be said for other films, like Top Gun.

Tarek Morgen
17 Oct 10,, 13:03
not to forget one of the best soundtracks.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPsL2WVhFCc

jlvfr
17 Oct 10,, 14:36
Granted, it strays immensely from the book (and leaves out the part with the Hawgs, which was an awesome part), but I still think it wasn't that bad. For a military movie, it got most of the facts right, which is more than can be said for other films, like Top Gun.

Well, the book was huge (typical Tom Clancy), so cuts were inevitable. And yeah, the soundtrack was great.

USSWisconsin
17 Oct 10,, 16:35
Hunt for Red October is one of my favorite movies. It introduced me to Tom Clancy, and Sean Connery going "One ping only, Vasily" is a classic line.

Granted, it strays immensely from the book (and leaves out the part with the Hawgs, which was an awesome part), but I still think it wasn't that bad. For a military movie, it got most of the facts right, which is more than can be said for other films, like Top Gun.

I love the movie, whether it is accurate or not, it is a great movie

sappersgt
18 Nov 10,, 21:27
While house sitting I got to watch five back to back episodes of The Pacific. While not a movie it sure is long enough. Did anyone notice that all the Marines are too clean shaven and their hair's way too long? They all look like they haven't had a haircut in three months and have maybe two days beard. Besides the universally short military haircuts I know we always looked like a bunch of pirates after being in the field for any length of time. :rolleyes:

bigross86
18 Nov 10,, 21:45
Dunno bout that. I thought the Pacific was awesome. Not quite on the caliber of Band of Brothers, but still, awesome.

Damn, now I want to watch BoB again. I don't have time!!!

ShawnG
19 Nov 10,, 13:37
While house sitting I got to watch five back to back episodes of The Pacific. While not a movie it sure is long enough. Did anyone notice that all the Marines are too clean shaven and their hair's way too long? They all look like they haven't had a haircut in three months and have maybe two days beard. Besides the universally short military haircuts I know we always looked like a bunch of pirates after being in the field for any length of time. :rolleyes:

I thought the pacific was great myself. I watched the first 2 episodes, but they should still be on demand on Comcast so I'll be watching them here and there.

As far as the saving and hair deal, They probably didn't get much time to do it in Guadalcanal (Picture is from Okinawa)... other than times they were back at the TOC area (i.e. when the Army arrived and the marines stole all their shit in The Pacific: Episode 2

http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/Images8/Okinawa/MarineShaveOkinawa.jpg

2DREZQ
26 Dec 10,, 20:24
Read the whole thread from the beginning.

There is a secret formula out there: Any movie must contain no more than X quantity of good stuff. X is composed of
A=acting, A2=accuracy, and S=special effects. When you increase one factor, the others must be downgraded.

Good example: Think of Tora, Tora, Tora , but with the special effects from Pearl Harbor.

jackal
27 Dec 10,, 19:17
Pearl Harbour: One of the biggest load of shite I've ever seen. Over hyped, over dramatic and the acting...Trying too hard for an Oscar I think. Oh and Ben 'Fukwit' Afleck managed to win the Battle of Britian and the war against the Japanese, or so it seemed. Load of pish!

U-571: No comment...

Enemy At The Gate: Had the potential to be an amazing film. But sadly inaccurate. I still like it though.

xinhui
27 Dec 10,, 20:16
w.r.t Pearl Harbour.... It was Kate Beckinsale, baby.

superstar
02 Jan 11,, 08:33
this oen nicolas cage one. the windtalkers?
in true hollywood style, nicolas cage runs through the centre of a miniture valley, out in the open, shooting 50 japanese soldiers out of the tall grass on each side of the valley..

gunnut
04 Jan 11,, 01:23
For kicks, here's a clip from "Sleep With Me," in which Quentin Tarantino explains how "Top Gun" is really a story about a man struggling with his own homosexuality.

Ever heard of that song "Playing with the boys" in Top Gun?

If you haven't, listen to it. Pay close attention to the words. Dirty mind is a must. :tongue:

Albany Rifles
04 Jan 11,, 14:43
Superstar

Welcome to the WAB!

Can I ask you to head over the the Memebr Introduction Thread on the main page and tell us a bit about yourself?

And then check out the Survival Guide to the WAB...its how we keep it off the guardrails!

Again, welcome

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/member-introductions/46580-completely-unoffical-wab-survival-guide.html