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Ulian
20 Sep 04,, 14:06
On Sunday, Sep 19, CNN presented results of the international poll indicating that "non-voting" nations generally preferred Kerry over Bush with a significant lead of the former in the poll. As far as Europe, only Poland gave a slight lead to Bush over Kerry. Meanwhile, Americans themselves seem to favor Bush over Kerry. Believe this has got much to do with Iraq -- Europeans don't like Bush because he invaded Iraq without getting a proper international consent for this action, but Americans like him because he demonstrated that the USA could do whatever it wants after all. The new global conflict, along the line "US - the rest of the world", seems to be emerging, unless the new US administration recognizes that it was wrong going to the war without having sufficient international backing.

TruthSpeak
20 Sep 04,, 14:39
On Sunday, Sep 19, CNN presented results of the international poll indicating that "non-voting" nations generally preferred Kerry over Bush with a significant lead of the former in the poll. As far as Europe, only Poland gave a slight lead to Bush over Kerry. Meanwhile, Americans themselves seem to favor Bush over Kerry. Believe this has got much to do with Iraq -- Europeans don't like Bush because he invaded Iraq without getting a proper international consent for this action, but Americans like him because he demonstrated that the USA could do whatever it wants after all. The new global conflict, along the line "US - the rest of the world", seems to be emerging, unless the new US administration recognizes that it was wrong going to the war without having sufficient international backing.

Half these countries dont understand what freedom is. They don't understand whats behind the issues, and their governments are full of propoganda.

What do you expect?

Confed999
22 Sep 04,, 01:19
They would have went for liberal Kerry, even without any excuses.

Ulian
22 Sep 04,, 08:49
Half these countries dont understand what freedom is. They don't understand whats behind the issues, and their governments are full of propoganda.

What do you expect?
If you believe that only half of them don't understand the issues then why the other half, the ones that do understand, still favor Kerry over Bush?

Ulian
22 Sep 04,, 08:51
They would have went for liberal Kerry, even without any excuses.
I think they would have gone against aggresive Bush in the first place, irrespective whether Kerry was liberal enough

TruthSpeak
22 Sep 04,, 18:46
Not to mention...Kerry is Al Qaeda's favorite.

Ray
22 Sep 04,, 20:03
Kerry would have been my facourite if he was as forceful an orator as Bush.

Somehow he is not convincing.

Ray
22 Sep 04,, 20:09
Truth,

Please don't talk from the wrong side.

Do explain how you have the copyright to what is 'Freedom'

You are no better than a Bible thumping eccentric. Because of your bigotry, your argument which may have some validity is lost because it is given the contempt that it deserves.

Patriot Act. It is like the Commies of the USSR. Yet, maybe it is required at this moment for the safety of the USA. It sure is not Freedom.

Unless Freddom is the FBI now having the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done.

Heard of this?

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I didn't say it. A better American than you said it.

Ironduke
22 Sep 04,, 21:22
The surveys were carried out only in major metropolitan areas. Yes, there is a gulf, but it the fact that only those in large cities were surveyed skews the results.

Confed999
23 Sep 04,, 01:02
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!
Patrick Henry said that, and it's one of my favorite quotes. It says it all...

Ray
23 Sep 04,, 14:14
The moment of truth will arrive in Nov.

No matter who on the international arena likes Kerry, it is only if America like him is what will matter.

The polls are not indicating any victory for Kerry.

turnagainarm
23 Sep 04,, 14:32
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3640754.stm

World 'wants Kerry as president'

A new poll in 35 countries suggests that people around the world would prefer Democratic challenger John Kerry as US president over George W Bush.
Global research company GlobeScan Inc and the University of Maryland found clear leads for Mr Kerry among those polled in 30 of the countries.

Only Filipino, Polish and Nigerian respondents clearly backed Mr Bush.

Most said Mr Bush's foreign policy had made them feel worse about the US since his election in 2000.

Meanwhile, a new survey of American and European public attitudes also suggested there had been a dramatic leap in the latter's criticism of US foreign policy.

More than three-quarters of Europeans surveyed in 10 countries by the German Marshall Fund of the US said they disapproved of President Bush's international actions, 20% more than two years ago.

The survey also showed sharp differences in how governments should respond to potential threats from terrorism and weapons of mass destruction.

More than 80% of Americans thought war could achieve justice - more than twice the proportion of Europeans.

Traditional allies

Because of access difficulties, polling was restricted to metropolitan areas in 11 of the countries.

"Only one in five want to see Bush re-elected," said Steven Kull, the director of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA).

"Though he is not as well known, Kerry would win handily if the people of the world were to elect the US president."

Mr Kerry scored best in traditional US allies, such as Canada and Western European countries.

The highest margin was in Norway, where 74% of respondents backed Mr Kerry compared with just 7% for Mr Bush. The strongest negative views about US foreign policy appeared to come from Germany, where 83% said their view of the US had got worse.

Respondents in all the Latin American countries polled, including neighbours Mexico, also went for the Democrat, with the biggest majority - 57% to 14% - in Brazil.

The picture was more mixed in Asia. Only respondents in the Philippines clearly backed Mr Bush, but there was an almost even divide in India and Thailand.

Organisers of the poll attributed the Philippine result to US aid to a military campaign against Islamist rebels in the south of the country.

The GlobeScan/Maryland poll, of 34,330 people, was conducted mainly in July and August.

POLL RESULTS (KERRY-BUSH)
Norway: 74%-7%
Germany: 74%-10%
France: 64%-5%
Italy: 58%-14%
Spain: 45%-7%
UK: 47%-16%
Canada: 61%-16%
Mexico: 38%-18%
Brazil: 57%-14%
China: 52%-12%
Japan: 43%-32%
Indonesia: 57%-34%
India: 34%-33%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philippines: 32%-57%
Nigeria: 33%-27%
Poland: 26%-31%
Thailand: 30%-33%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: GlobeScan Inc/University of Maryland PIPA

turnagainarm
23 Sep 04,, 14:38
The surveys were carried out only in major metropolitan areas. Yes, there is a gulf, but it the fact that only those in large cities were surveyed skews the results.

Report from the BBC says survey was conducted only in the metropolitan areas of 11 countries, meaning that in the rest 24 it was carried in non-metropolitran areas as well.

I am guessing in countries like India, China, Thailand, Nigeria etc., it would not make sense to carry the survey in the rural areas as most of the people would not know who Bush or Kerry was.

Ulian
23 Sep 04,, 17:18
The moment of truth will arrive in Nov.

No matter who on the international arena likes Kerry, it is only if America like him is what will matter.

The polls are not indicating any victory for Kerry.
This is true, of course. But the point is that such a big difference in opinion seems to indicate that Americans and the rest of the world have quite different views on how international matters should be handled. Are the Americans right and the rest of the world are wrong? Or vice versa? Or maybe both are wrong and the world should seek a different concept on which both would agree?

Hawg166
23 Sep 04,, 17:24
I can see totally why a a country would want a liberal government in the United States. As I see it a liberal president would be less likely to intervene in the foreign affairs of a sovereign state. A return to the textbook Westphalian Order if thats what you want to call it. I think a lot of Europe is pissed at the idea that America has to constantly police Europe. But economically I cant see where any nation would benefit from an extremely liberal government because they certaintly wouldnt tote the laisez faire attitude that conservatives generally do. I would think that a liberal government would be more of a protectionist / islationist in its thinking.

Ray
23 Sep 04,, 18:06
Report from the BBC says survey was conducted only in the metropolitan areas of 11 countries, meaning that in the rest 24 it was carried in non-metropolitran areas as well.

I am guessing in countries like India, China, Thailand, Nigeria etc., it would not make sense to carry the survey in the rural areas as most of the people would not know who Bush or Kerry was.

It may surprise you that because of TV and our national channel Doordarshan, even villagers would know Bush and Kerry' as also Clinton. Of course, they would pronounce it as Boooooooooss and Cary and Kliniton. There are alo graduates and post graduates in villages too.

Elephants, snake charmers and Maharajas are extinct. :)

Ray
23 Sep 04,, 18:08
This is true, of course. But the point is that such a big difference in opinion seems to indicate that Americans and the rest of the world have quite different views on how international matters should be handled. Are the Americans right and the rest of the world are wrong? Or vice versa? Or maybe both are wrong and the world should seek a different concept on which both would agree?

It maybe true that the international community may as a majority hold divergent views from that of teh USA, but that would not matter since the election is confined to what the Americans think!

Horrido
23 Sep 04,, 21:16
This is true, of course. But the point is that such a big difference in opinion seems to indicate that Americans and the rest of the world have quite different views on how international matters should be handled. Are the Americans right and the rest of the world are wrong? Or vice versa? Or maybe both are wrong and the world should seek a different concept on which both would agree?

Considering the perpetual failures of European and UN "diplomacy and "security,"" the US is obviously right. We just did a piss-poor job demonstrating the answer.

Gio
23 Sep 04,, 23:19
Bah who cares. I don't give a f what the avg Berliner thinks and the avg Berliner doesn't give f about what i think about German politics. So..

eMGee
23 Sep 04,, 23:34
Kerry is (also) favored by the Dear Leader!


http://www.vestnik.com/issues/2002/0724/images/mirzoev_dear_leader_kim-jong-il.jpg

Lunatock
24 Sep 04,, 00:35
There's a saying that might have been invented just for that poll.

FUCK THE WORLD! :)

Confed999
24 Sep 04,, 00:57
Considering the perpetual failures of European and UN "diplomacy and "security,"" the US is obviously right. We just did a piss-poor job demonstrating the answer.

Bah who cares. I don't give a f what the avg Berliner thinks and the avg Berliner doesn't give f about what i think about German politics. So..
Yep...

Ulian
24 Sep 04,, 08:17
Patrick Henry said that, and it's one of my favorite quotes. It says it all...
Could I ask who Patrick Henry was. Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks.

Ulian
24 Sep 04,, 09:33
Kerry is (also) favored by the Dear Leader!


http://www.vestnik.com/issues/2002/0724/images/mirzoev_dear_leader_kim-jong-il.jpg
This is as much true as a logo on your posts that says "Russia will save Europe." What the Dear Leader is dreaming of is that the USA becomes at least an authoritarian state, similar to what Rusia is now, and together they "save" Europe from its freedoms.

Ulian
24 Sep 04,, 09:35
There's a saying that might have been invented just for that poll.

FUCK THE WORLD! :)
Don't forget you are part of the world too, or you are not?

Lunatock
24 Sep 04,, 17:59
Don't forget you are part of the world too, or you are not?

In this case I'm not. Bush supporter, and anything but a mullah, wannabe dynasty ruler, or euroweenie.

Ray
24 Sep 04,, 19:10
Could I ask who Patrick Henry was. Please forgive my ignorance. Thanks.

Please visit

www.history.org/Almanack/people/bios/biohen.cfm

www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/henry.htm

http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/henry-liberty.html

Confed999
25 Sep 04,, 02:26
This is as much true as a logo on your posts that says "Russia will save Europe." What the Dear Leader is dreaming of is that the USA becomes at least an authoritarian state, similar to what Rusia is now, and together they "save" Europe from its freedoms.
Wouldn't that still make him "favored" over Bush?

Ulian
25 Sep 04,, 16:34
Please visit

www.history.org/Almanack/people/bios/biohen.cfm

www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/henry.htm

http://libertyonline.hypermall.com/henry-liberty.html
Many thanks indeed.

Ulian
25 Sep 04,, 16:38
Wouldn't that still make him "favored" over Bush?
I tend to think the only American that North Korean guy would like would be a member of the US Communist Party, if such organization exists.

Confed999
25 Sep 04,, 21:07
would be a member of the US Communist Party, if such organization exists.
The party exists, and they are supporting Kerry...

porsteamboy
25 Sep 04,, 22:02
Half these countries dont understand what freedom is. They don't understand whats behind the issues, and their governments are full of propoganda.

What do you expect?
What is behind the issues! In politics all countries are full of propoganda, including this one!

Confed999
25 Sep 04,, 22:12
What is behind the issues! In politics all countries are full of propoganda, including this one!
Everything said is propaganda technically. You could also try to prove that places like North Korea do not fit his statement, though I believe you will fail.
Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

porsteamboy
25 Sep 04,, 22:15
Truth,

Please don't talk from the wrong side.

Do explain how you have the copyright to what is 'Freedom'

You are no better than a Bible thumping eccentric. Because of your bigotry, your argument which may have some validity is lost because it is given the contempt that it deserves.

Patriot Act. It is like the Commies of the USSR. Yet, maybe it is required at this moment for the safety of the USA. It sure is not Freedom.

Unless Freddom is the FBI now having the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done.

Heard of this?

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I didn't say it. A better American than you said it.
Remember, He was very, very not for the constitution!

Confed999
25 Sep 04,, 22:19
Remember, He was very, very not for the constitution!
Who?

porsteamboy
26 Sep 04,, 10:12
Who?
Patrick Henry

Ulian
27 Sep 04,, 09:40
Everything said is propaganda technically. You could also try to prove that places like North Korea do not fit his statement, though I believe you will fail.

A word "propaganda" is usually used to describe the situation where mass media, controlled by the ruling regime of the particular country conveys ideas of that regime only. As such, it could hardly be applied to the Western democracies.

Ulian
27 Sep 04,, 10:07
The party exists, and they are supporting Kerry...
So, they are not that dumb after all.

Ulian
27 Sep 04,, 10:10
In this case I'm not. Bush supporter, and anything but a mullah, wannabe dynasty ruler, or euroweenie.
Are you saying anybody who does not support Bush falls in one of those categories? That is insulting really.

porsteamboy
27 Sep 04,, 10:54
Everything said is propaganda technically. You could also try to prove that places like North Korea do not fit his statement, though I believe you will fail.
Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Congregatio de propaganda fide Congregation for propagating the faith, organization established by Pope Gregory XV died 1623
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
Your post #31 is a good example of propaganda!

turnagainarm
27 Sep 04,, 16:08
I am yet to read a good post on the issue of why Right Wing America is so much at odds with the rest of the word, and why the Democratic America is more in sync with the rest of the world?

Come on folks, put some effort!

Confed999
27 Sep 04,, 23:45
A word "propaganda" is usually
What it is usually used for, and what it really is, are often 2 different things.

So, they are not that dumb after all.
Or they are complete morons, it just depends on how you look at it.

Your post #31 is a good example of propaganda!
Sure is, as is everything you say I understand. If in reality you're trying to say it's a lie, why would I bother?
News Story (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1171176/posts)
Commie Website (http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/586/1/27/)

Confed999
27 Sep 04,, 23:47
Right Wing
There are alot of conservatives on this board, but not alot of "Right Wing" people. That may explain it.

turnagainarm
28 Sep 04,, 21:12
There are alot of conservatives on this board, but not alot of "Right Wing" people. That may explain it.

Aren't conservatives part of the 'Right Wing'? They certainly don't belong to the 'Left Wing'!

Confed999
29 Sep 04,, 00:32
Aren't conservatives part of the 'Right Wing'? They certainly don't belong to the 'Left Wing'!
Conservatives are part of the right wing, but one can be conservative and not right wing. For example I am very politically conservative, I want a government as small as it can be, but I am socially liberal and I am not a Christian, so right wing doesn't fit.

Praxus
29 Sep 04,, 02:02
I am yet to read a good post on the issue of why Right Wing America is so much at odds with the rest of the word, and why the Democratic America is more in sync with the rest of the world?

Come on folks, put some effort!

The world is full of left wing socialists with a bad epistomology and horrific moral system. Good enough for you?


Conservatives are part of the right wing, but one can be conservative and not right wing. For example I am very politically conservative, I want a government as small as it can be, but I am socially liberal and I am not a Christian, so right wing doesn't fit.

Confed is a closet Deist;)

Confed999
29 Sep 04,, 02:48
Confed is a closet Deist ;)
I'm pretty open about it. :)

Praxus
29 Sep 04,, 03:02
True:D

Donnie
29 Sep 04,, 04:06
Aren't conservatives part of the 'Right Wing'? They certainly don't belong to the 'Left Wing'!

the us is to diverse for there to be a left and right wing, there has to be a better model.

example, mexican imigrants are flooding the southwest, and are very religious individuals (catholic) they are against abortion, pro family, would be against gay rights, however they are very interested in social programs, would be in favor of socialized health care, and bigger government.

(i know im blocking a whole lot of people into one group, and i assure you it is just for illastration purposes)

then you have liberatarians who are for small government, less taxes, gun rights,(all conservative issues) less intrusion on individual rights and personal liberties, like gay rights, and drug leagalization.

then you have the centrist that are not left enough to be left, not right enough to be right. someone like me.

im against late term abortions, not against abortions like the day after pill for rape or incest victims, or where the life of the mother is at risk.

im against the death penalty as it is because it is unreliable, but i am not against the philosophy.

i am pro gun regulation, but im not for the abolition of gun ownership

i think gays should be allowed to have the same rights as straight, but i feel that all mariages should be considered unions, leave marriage to the church.

i believe pot should be legal and regulated, but i stop there, nothing harder.

i believe in the war in iraq on humanitarian reasons, way before humanitarian reasons where "in" but im not exactly happy with the way the war was carried out.

not right enough to be right, not left enough to be left, but both consider me the other.

griftadan
29 Sep 04,, 06:19
Truth,

Please don't talk from the wrong side.

Do explain how you have the copyright to what is 'Freedom'

You are no better than a Bible thumping eccentric. Because of your bigotry, your argument which may have some validity is lost because it is given the contempt that it deserves.

Patriot Act. It is like the Commies of the USSR. Yet, maybe it is required at this moment for the safety of the USA. It sure is not Freedom.

Unless Freddom is the FBI now having the power to access your most private medical records, your library records, and your student records... and can prevent anyone from telling you it was done.

Heard of this?

Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

I didn't say it. A better American than you said it.

i have a question. has anyone in here been affected at all by the patriot act, or even no someone effected by the patriot act?

i know i havent, nor do i know anyone who has. our freedoms cant be that limited. it was designed to find people of suspescion and to see if their up to anything. if you arent a terrorist, then you dont have a problem

Officer of Engineers
29 Sep 04,, 06:33
i know i havent, nor do i know anyone who has. our freedoms cant be that limited. it was designed to find people of suspescion and to see if their up to anything. if you arent a terrorist, then you dont have a problem

Sound too much like "Only criminals need to fear a police state."

Ulian
29 Sep 04,, 12:26
I am yet to read a good post on the issue of why Right Wing America is so much at odds with the rest of the word, and why the Democratic America is more in sync with the rest of the world?

Come on folks, put some effort!
Simple reason is that the Right Wing America is for fulfillment of US interests (real or imagined) everywhere in the world at the expense of others' interests, which is the policy pursued by the Bush administration, while the rest of the world (and apparently the Democratic America) oppose this and support the "unti-Bush" candidate (be it Kerry or somebody else).

TruthSpeak
29 Sep 04,, 14:47
Simple reason is that the Right Wing America is for fulfillment of US interests (real or imagined) everywhere in the world at the expense of others' interests

Democrats support the fulfillment of poor people's interestes at the expense of the rich. So who are you to criticize.

Ray
29 Sep 04,, 20:21
Griftadan,

Got that?

Sound too much like "Only criminals need to fear a police state."

The Soviets also said what you are saying.

The point to note is not if there is any physical action, it is just that of a mental fear - what if?

A thrashing wont kill.

But a mental worry can. Most heart attacks are anxiety assisted.

Confed999
30 Sep 04,, 01:47
The Patriot Act is mostly about allowing investigations against suspected terrorists, and cyber-terrorists. It's a legal way around the PC racial profiling poo. The US Supreme Court has allready ruled that US citizens arrested have the right to full due process. Foreign citizens arrested under this act, around 600 total if I remember correctly, are usually deported, but some have been held as enemy combatants. The Patriot Act has a built in expiration date too, not sure about extentions though.

Confed999
30 Sep 04,, 02:03
which is the policy pursued by the Bush administration
I take it you're not an American? The Right Wing has problems with some of Bush's policies too.

Oh, and show me a government that doesn't support it's country's intrests first. Supporting it's country's intrests is government's job.

Ray
30 Sep 04,, 08:42
Confed,

Does it have a sunset clause?

Thank God, I am not Right Wing or Left Wing. Actually, it is not possible for me to be any.

I have no WINGS to FLAP! ;)

Ray
30 Sep 04,, 08:55
I have no problem with the Patriot Act.

It must be good for the US.

I was only commenting on 'psychological aspect'. As also, to bring home the point that some 'draconian' laws in other countries are commented upon by the US Human Rights blokes, which are correct in theory, but without having given due regards to the ground situation of that country being commented upon.

Like, the Patriot Act infringes on human individual privacy, but is nevertheless essential for US secutiry, so are some laws in other countries which invites criticism in the Annual Human Rights Violations Report. The unfortuante part is the US is the Pole Star of Opinions and hence such countries become the whipping boy of the world! Fortuantely, the US is kind to India more than to some other countries.

Another point the Americans miss out is that while Americans are more law abiding, in other countries, it is not so. The US may have lost its wild west culture, but in other countries it is alive and kicking ;) :biggrin: So, you require laws that were Okay in the Wild West.

Ulian
30 Sep 04,, 13:10
I take it you're not an American? The Right Wing has problems with some of Bush's policies too.

Oh, and show me a government that doesn't support it's country's intrests first. Supporting it's country's intrests is government's job.
That's right, I am not American, and may not know the internal situation well enough. Sorry about that.

It is not a bad thing a government cares about its country's interests but it is too bad when that government disregards interests of other countries while doing so. More so when it tries to fulfill its interests at the expense of other countries' interests. Especially when that is the government of the USA, which is seen by intrenational community as a major supporter of democratic freedoms around the world.

Until governments of the world start caring about protecting others' interests while securing their own, this world has no peaceful future. The biggest challenge is to get governments (as well as individuals for that matter) behave in a way so that they don't inflict harm on each other.

Confed999
01 Oct 04,, 01:10
It is not a bad thing a government cares about its country's interests but it is too bad when that government disregards interests of other countries while doing so. .
What country's intrests are being disregarded to a degree that is considered acceptable? For example, I don't care that France, Germany, Russia and many others lost intrests in Iraq, they shouldn't have been supporting Saddam and his pals. I would feel the same way if the USA lost intrests in such a place as well.

xxxxx
02 Oct 04,, 08:53
Not to mention...Kerry is Al Qaeda's favorite.

not to mention... Bush is family Bin Laden's favorite

Confed999
02 Oct 04,, 16:53
Bush is family Bin Laden's favorite
Nothing wrong with that, the majority of OBL's family are business people. I even have "ties" to his family.

smilingassassin
03 Oct 04,, 03:56
The American voters will decide, not the world. The world can't even make up its mind on Saddam so its rather pointless to state they are behind Kerry. Kerry is the quintisental Politician, slick hair, kissing baby's and saying what everyone wants to hear, we all know what happens when they get into office though.
When I look at the Hollywood types that publically back kerry I get the explanation I need. Jane Fonda, Susan Sarandon, Bruce Springsteen and Micheal Stripe all have their heads up their ass's, so it just shows how birds of a feather flock togeather. Braindead stoners unite!!

Ray
03 Oct 04,, 09:47
The American voters will decide, not the world. The world can't even make up its mind on Saddam so its rather pointless to state they are behind Kerry. Kerry is the quintisental Politician, slick hair, kissing baby's and saying what everyone wants to hear, we all know what happens when they get into office though.


That's the point. Americans will decide and not anyone else.

Let's however be no partisan. Your plus points of Kerry is what all politicians do. All of them try to look slick, kisses not only babies, but the bottoms of all voters, etc etc. Now, if Kerry has hair, it is God given. One can't hold that against him. Such arguments lose the debate. Let's also look at Bush's plus points that Kerry fans may decry.

Bush is straight talking, shoots from the hip and rather homegrown in his ideas. Rather appealing if you don't mind.