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  • Right keeps Left, wants govt to dump N-deal

    Right keeps Left, wants govt to dump N-deal

    NEW DELHI: Domestic pressure against the Indo-US nuclear agreement seems to be building up with the BJP on Sunday demanding that the UPA government “reject” the US Senate Act enabling civil nuclear co-operation between the two countries. Adopting a hard stance that was indicative of the BJP’s attitude to the nuclear agreement, senior party leaders said that such a deal “cannot bind India in future”.

    On their part, though the Left parties have not yet formally voiced their opinion on the final version of the Act passed by Congress, the UPA’s outside supporters have indicated that the points which they objected to, seem to have made it to the final version as well.

    The BJP, for its part, has demanded a full-fledged discussion on the US Act in Parliament. “If they (the UPA government) go ahead, we will go to the people and put forward the fact that the Vajpayee government had taken the nuclear weapons programme ahead, but this government has surrendered it to the United States,” BJP leader and former Union minister Yashwant Sinha said.

    A statement setting out the BJP’s objections said: “The Act, as passed by the US legislature, is not acceptable to the BJP. Its provisions fly in the face of the assurances given by the prime minister to Parliament from time to time.” The saffron party echoed the Left’s fears that “the Act seriously compromises the independence of our foreign policy. India is not just to toe the line of the US with regard to Iran, it is being offered this cooperation on the ground that its foreign policy will be ‘congruent’ with that of the US”.

    The BJP highlighted that the Act was aimed at “capping, rolling back and eventually eliminating India’s nuclear weapons capability” by imposing conditionlities that are worse than those in the NPT and the CTBT. It said an agreement based on such an Act would “stymie” India’s technological advancement in this critical area. The party, as if to buttress its point, said that a section of nuclear scientists had opposed the deal, too.

    Fielding a volley of questions, senior BJP leader Arun Shourie said the “long nuclear winter” that this deal was supposed to end had actually worked well for India and consequently, the scientific establishment had been able to develop the country’s nuclear capability. Terming the US Act “more unequal than ever before”, the BJP said the “principle of parity” that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had repeatedly stressed has been “abandoned”.

    The opposition party’s main objections to the US act were: certification and reporting requirements continue to be rigorous; no assurance of uninterrupted fuel supplies even for Indian civilian reactors; the moratorium on the production of fissile material remains a key US objective and the US retains the right to carry out its own end-use verification, in addition to IAEA inspections.

    The BJP also brought up provisions in the US Act prohibiting India to reprocess the used fuel or ship it back to the US unless approved by the US Congress.

    The party said India’s nuclear weapons programme would be subjected to “intrusive US scrutiny” and India would be forced to adhere to obligations of international protocols — Proliferation Security Initiative, the Australia Group and the Wassenaar Arrangement — regarding which the PM himself had reservations, and the obligations India had refused to accept in the past.

    “The assertion of the government that through the July 18, 2005 statement, it had ensured that India would obtain the same rights as other states like the US is no nowhere in the discussions and legislation,” the statement said.
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/764243.cms


    This is getting seriously frustrating.... fk the BJP, fk the commies....
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tronic View Post
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/764243.cms


    This is getting seriously frustrating.... fk the BJP, fk the commies....
    Those things don't concern you?

    Pakistan's going to get a nuclear deal of a slightly lower grade from China. But it comes without any strings attached.

    We can use the the fuel/used fuel for weapons. Divert civillian facilities to use them for military purposes and make as many nuclear warheads as wanted.

    I think India stands at an overall disadvantage unless it somehow manages to cheat and use all that fuel for new nukes anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      not really... Its not so much about the fuel as it is about the nuclear technology we'll gain....

      and dude, everybody already knows we've got weapons, I would rather have the nuclear deal and hopefully get some price cuts at the petrol pumps and cheaper electricity then reject the deal just because of the lust to build more bombs; building more bombs will not effect my life accept maybe that instead of already paying 50 rupees/litre at the pump, the cost will simply go higher and higher and higher.... we seriously need this deal, and its not only about the nuclear fuel as you think, the ruskies are already more then willing to provide that... its about the nuclear technology....
      Last edited by Tronic; 12 Dec 06,, 02:00.
      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Asim Aquil View Post
        Those things don't concern you?

        Pakistan's going to get a nuclear deal of a slightly lower grade from China. But it comes without any strings attached.

        We can use the the fuel/used fuel for weapons. Divert civillian facilities to use them for military purposes and make as many nuclear warheads as wanted.

        I think India stands at an overall disadvantage unless it somehow manages to cheat and use all that fuel for new nukes anyway.
        I think we are all jumping the gun. You are. Commies are (of course0. Bhajpa is. That bill was U.S. law. What's important is the Indo-US agreement that is to be penned.

        I think the bill gives U.S. negotiaters sufficient leeway. If you read the bill, the controversial clauses were in the non-binding sections. Which means the American negotiaters will forced to include them in the Bilateral agreement.
        I rant, therefore I am.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tronic View Post
          http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/764243.cms


          This is getting seriously frustrating.... fk the BJP, fk the commies....
          In India, there is no Left and there is no Right. Everybody opposes everything despite whichever ideology. And then they get elected and when in power do those very same things.

          Imho the Beurocracy runs the show. Netas are just catputli's. ROFL!
          I rant, therefore I am.

          Comment


          • #6
            Pakistan's going to get a nuclear deal of a slightly lower grade from China. But it comes without any strings attached.
            No dick measuring contest here. Come later.

            Comment


            • #7
              This is getting seriously frustrating.... fk the BJP
              Tronic,

              Spend two-three years watching how things work. Then you'll understand instead of acting oh so hypersensitive like this. Some of what you say makes no sense at all. For instance :

              deal just because of the lust to build more bombs;
              You say it like we were running around and making as many weapons as we could. Just plain wrong. You almost talk as if we have to run around submitting our strategic independence to just about everybody giving us a nuclear deal.

              Face it, some of those making comments on this deal from BJP have been going to the Parliament even before you were born. Infact Vajpayee was the For.Min before I was born.

              They know what they're talking about.

              Nobody in India is "desperate" for this deal. It is laughable to even think that the US would have agreed for such a deal had India been in dire straits. The fact that you are giving so much importance to nuclear power from Amreeka Bahadur (as if the sky would fall on our heads) indicates you never followed what came out of the mouths of the powers that be in New Delhi.
              Last edited by Samudra; 12 Dec 06,, 04:30.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think we are all jumping the gun. You are. Commies are (of course0. Bhajpa is. That bill was U.S. law. What's important is the Indo-US agreement that is to be penned.
                Indeed. This is all about the US altering its laws to enable its executive to make a deal with India. Why are these Indians getting so hypersensitive about it ? And this Pakistani wants a dick measuring contest to boot!

                However, the BJP has had a very important role to play and I'm goddamn sure the Congress would've acted very similar to how the current opposition is playing it out if it were out of power. There's an awfull lot of good cop-bad cop being played out there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pakistan's going to get a nuclear deal of a slightly lower grade from China. But it comes without any strings attached.

                  We can use the the fuel/used fuel for weapons. Divert civillian facilities to use them for military purposes and make as many nuclear warheads as wanted.
                  Nice wet dreams, in the same league as fitting a nuclear reactor in to Merlin SSK to make them SSN.

                  Hint : China is a signatory to NSG.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Samudra View Post
                    You say it like we were running around and making as many weapons as we could. Just plain wrong. You almost talk as if we have to run around submitting our strategic independence to just about everybody giving us a nuclear deal.
                    I'm not saying anything like that. Thing is, I do not enjoy paying 50 bucks a litre for petrol, lately I've come to notice that as time passes by there is less and less money available to enjoy other things, the petrol pump digs down deep in the wallet. I know most of you are NRIs but for people like me who are in India most of the year, it plays a great toll... This nuke deal will hopefully relieve a lot of that burden on the nation's oil supply, I don't see how the nukes are in any threat, we can still produce them at the same rate as we've been doing in the past, no?

                    Face it, some of those making comments on this deal from BJP have been going to the Parliament even before you were born. Infact Vajpayee was the For.Min before I was born.

                    They know what they're talking about.
                    I'll give you that; these fat cats have been in politics a lot longer... I wonder how much of my tax money goes to buying these asses new cars and paying for their show-off security...

                    Nobody in India is "desperate" for this deal. It is laughable to even think that the US would have agreed for such a deal had India been in dire straits. The fact that you are giving so much importance to nuclear power from Amreeka Bahadur (as if the sky would fall on our heads) indicates you never followed what came out of the mouths of the powers that be in New Delhi.
                    No, I did follow it for a while, then when MMS addressed and held talks with all the scientists and people in doubt of this deal, everybody was all joyful about it... was that beyond the comprehension of the BJP leaders that it took them this long to start their whining again?
                    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                      http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...how/764243.cms


                      This is getting seriously frustrating.... fk the BJP, fk the commies....
                      Clearly, as the leader of opposition, BJP is not supposed to hand over its b@lls on a platter to the ruling coalition. Yes, it should raise concerns on certain aspects of the deal, which it did and those are genuine concerns. Such concerns/discussions are a good thing for the country.

                      Did BJP ask for scrapping the deal altogether? NO. Did it mention that India could have done better if our main man(ie. Sister Sonia ) from Congress had bargained harder? YES. Would BJP have done significantly better or different? HELL NO!


                      So I concur when you say "fcuk the commies", brownies for the fiesty BJP(a rare pat on the back from me), and no extra points for the dour Congress(also a rare pat on the back from me ;) ).
                      Last edited by gilgamesh; 12 Dec 06,, 07:14.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This nuke deal will hopefully relieve a lot of that burden on the nation's oil supply,

                        How so ? Have you looked up the number of diesel power plants versus the number of coal fired plants in India ? Buying a dozen nuclear reactors will NOT reduce the price of oil. I dont understand how you linked up both in the first place.

                        I'll give you that; these fat cats have been in politics a lot longer... I wonder how much of my tax money goes to buying these asses new cars and paying for their show-off security...
                        If YOU pay taxes in the first place that is. One grows tired of this unqualified criticism levelled against those who run the very country by virtue of the mandate people provide them.

                        No, I did follow it for a while, then when MMS addressed and held talks with all the scientists and people in doubt of this deal, everybody was all joyful about it... was that beyond the comprehension of the BJP leaders that it took them this long to start their whining again?
                        For a while ?

                        Did you ever care to watch the debate in the Parliament about the nuclear deal in the first place ? What are the things the PM mentioned to be "unacceptable" to the country ? Why did he announce that India was always free to walk away from the 'deal' ?

                        Why are scientists meeting again on the 15th ? What chances are that the very 'uprising' of the scientists themselves was orchestrated by the PMO ? Who told you everybody was "joyfull" of the deal ?

                        How can they be "joyfull" of the deal a month earlier when the most satisfactory version of the bill itself was drafted only last week ?
                        Last edited by Samudra; 12 Dec 06,, 08:42.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gilgamesh View Post
                          Did BJP ask for scrapping the deal altogether? NO.
                          Actually, right now, thats what its asking for...


                          Originally posted by Samudra
                          How so ? Have you looked up the number of diesel power plants versus the number of coal fired plants in India ? Buying a dozen nuclear reactors will NOT reduce the price of oil. I dont understand how you linked up both in the first place.
                          Who is talking about reducing price of oil??? It is about halting the sharp increase in the cost of oil... Listen, I suggest you only talk when you are sharing some of the problems we have here... and the ground reality is that today, there is a major oil crisis in India...


                          If YOU pay taxes in the first place that is.
                          and where would you get the idea that I don't?
                          It is not so easy to avoid taxes anymore; rigourous checking has started after a very strong implementation of VAT... maybe you should visit India sometime and find out....

                          One grows tired of this unqualified criticism levelled against those who run the very country by virtue of the mandate people provide them.
                          Unqualified criticism? heh... most of the politicians in power today are sitting by the vote of poor, illiterate people.... that is why today the majority of politicians running our country happen to be criminals facing several charges from petty robbery to murder...


                          For a while ?

                          Did you ever care to watch the debate in the Parliament about the nuclear deal in the first place ? What are the things the PM mentioned to be "unacceptable" to the country ? Why did he announce that India was always free to walk away from the 'deal' ?

                          Why are scientists meeting again on the 15th ? What chances are that the very 'uprising' of the scientists themselves was orchestrated by the PMO ? Who told you everybody was "joyfull" of the deal ?
                          Why did the BJP shutup till now? They went from screaming to whining to screaming again... its quite pathetic... BJP has this very uncivil manner, even like before how they used to boycott parliament; they're all screaming Marys....
                          Last edited by Tronic; 12 Dec 06,, 16:34.
                          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                            Actually, right now, thats what its asking for...
                            Only in rhetoric, they have b@lls. Will they actually do it? NO. Because they are not very different from their counterparts in Congress. Just as they could do nothing with Article Kashmir, Uniform Civil Code etc.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gilgamesh View Post
                              Only in rhetoric, they have b@lls. Will they actually do it? NO. Because they are not very different from their counterparts in Congress. Just as they could do nothing with Article Kashmir, Uniform Civil Code etc.
                              Yeah, true... BJP are the ones making noise so I'm hot against the BJP; in reality all parties are pretty much the same; only diff is that we'll get the opposition condeming every damn decision the gov. in power makes meanwhile knowing that they would've done the exact same thing had they been in power...
                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                              Comment

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