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Major_Armstrong
04 Aug 04,, 03:54
FAITH UNDER FIRE
U.N. receives Muslim 'apostasy' petition
Urges Islamic leaders to allow conversion to another faith

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Posted: August 3, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



2004 WorldNetDaily.com

A major international petition calling on Islamic leaders to allow Muslims to convert to another faith was presented to the United Nations.

The petition, signed by 88,890 people from 32 countries, says "Muslims who choose to convert to another faith" should be "free to do so without having to face a lifetime of fear as a result."

Under Sharia, or Islamic law, Muslims who convert to another faith and refuse to repent must be put to death.

The British charity Barnabas Fund presented the petition to U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour July 28.

The group said it launched the petition a year and a half ago on behalf of Muslims who "face serious persecution and massive prejudice in many countries around the world" because they choose to leave Islam.

A Barnabas Fund representative also met at the Palais des Nations in Geneva with Ambassador Mike Smith, chairman of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights, and Soli J. Sorabjee, chairman of the U.N. Sub-commission on the Promotion and Protection of Human Rights.

In addition to the signatures, 92 members of the British Parliament last year signed a motion that "supports liberal Muslims, human rights campaigners and others who are calling for an end to cruel traditional punishments for apostasy."

The Barnabas Fund acknowledges the tradition is upheld and taught by most Muslim religious leaders around the world. But it notes a reformist interpretation that claims an apostate can be put to death only if he also is a danger to the Islamic state.

Traditionalists insist, nevertheless, every apostate is a danger to the Islamic social order and has committed high treason.

Some schools of Sharia teach the death penalty should be applied to women as well. Other punishments prescribed by Sharia include annulment of marriage, removal of children and loss of all property and inheritance rights.

In countries such as Iran, Sudan and Saudi Arabia, converts have faced imprisonment, death threats, torture and beatings. Some have been executed, and others have died in prison or disappeared. Barnabas also notes converts often face widespread hostility and aggression from their own families and communities even in more moderate Muslim countries and in Western nations where Muslims are a minority

The Barnabas Fund says that while hundreds of letters have been sent to the Muslim Council of Britain urging a constructive dialogue on the matter, it believes not a single response has been received.

Hundreds of letters also have been sent to the main regional heads of British Christian denominations with virtually no response.

"Many privately acknowledge the terrible suffering of apostates and admit to the gravity of the situation, but are unprepared to speak out publicly," the group says.

The British government, according to Barnabas, has produced "very non-committal replies appearing to dismiss the plight of those labeled as apostates as something which does not concern them domestically since 'Sharia law does not apply in the UK.'"

But Barnabas points out that in April, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammed of the extremist Islamic organization al-Muhajiroun issued a fatwa condemning the Muslim Labour party peer Lord Ahmed of Rotherham as an apostate because of his calls for greater integration of Muslims into British society.

"When even members of its own government are the victims of veiled threats as apostates surely this is an issue the British authorities must deal with both seriously and publicly," Barnabas says.

The Barnabas Fund's international director, Patrick Sookhdeo, said, "It is a tragic day when so few politician or religious leaders can be found who are prepared to stick their necks out by simply publicly affirming the most basic of human rights to change one's religion, something that has been enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights for over 50 years."

Previous story:

Petition to Muslims: Stop killing converts


http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39756

Confed999
04 Aug 04,, 04:49
Even if it's passed, what would the UN do to enforce it.

Ray
04 Aug 04,, 19:36
I think this is unecessary.

Why alienate people further?

ZFBoxcar
04 Aug 04,, 20:02
Why try to save innocent lives by pressuring dictatorships to allow people freedom of religion? Alienation is a small price to pay if there was success.

ChrisF202
04 Aug 04,, 20:15
Why try to save innocent lives by pressuring dictatorships to allow people freedom of religion? Alienation is a small price to pay if there was success.
Ill say. The dictator ships wont even read what the UN says. They could better spend their time trying to send a force into the Sudan.

Major_Armstrong
04 Aug 04,, 20:32
http://home.ripway.com/2003-12/43034/pics/Isterr.jpg

Ray
05 Aug 04,, 06:26
Well, you all have a point.

zimbrul
05 Aug 04,, 07:37
The world is changing, so are religions.I think it's time for Islam to get on board with it too.Even the pope accepted the condom finally, in light of the HIV threat.It's part of progress.Until they open their eyes no petition will change anything.

Nisaar
24 Aug 04,, 16:06
http://home.ripway.com/2003-12/43034/pics/Isterr.jpg




Well, Its true, militant muslims do kill you if you convert. But saying that Islam tells the Muslims to kill is like saying that the bible says that the KKK was supposed to do those horrid things that they did.

The words 'Sharia' roughly translated means 'Law of the land'. The laws of sharia were put in place long before the time of Mohammed and even the time of Christ. The Sharia laws are a combination of laws that were practised among the peoples of that area at the time of christ.


Remember the story about the prostitute that was caught and sentenced to death by the people of Israel. Christ agreed with the punishment but retaliated by saying," Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..." . Thus, no one actually killed that lady, because everyone was with sin.

This same law of stoning to death of the women practised by Jews before Christ abolished it is the same law that is in the sharia, why?, because the sharia is a culmination of these laws that was systematically superseded by the teaching of Christ & (if your'e a muslim without any screws loose and some missing)Mohamed.
Some laws have been added to the sharia but these were all post Quraan and have nothing to do with Islam. Other muslims, unlike me, don't share the same beliefs. They think of the Sharia as part of the religion.


You will find direct and (dare I say it) Blatant conflicts in the Quraans way of meting out punishments as compared with the Sharia way. Sadly, the sharia has been added to and kept alive by muslims who don't know any better.

I think that everybody has a right to do as they feel. (Provided they don't hurt anyone in the process.) You can't force someone to believe.

But these muslims do do this to the people. I don't understand how they can call themselves muslims if they resolve things with the Sharia and not the Quraan, which was meant to supersede all previous practices and teachings.

ZFBoxcar
24 Aug 04,, 16:24
Well, Its true, militant muslims do kill you if you convert. But saying that Islam tells the Muslims to kill is like saying that the bible says that the KKK was supposed to do those horrid things that they did.

Look, thats probably totally correct, but it really doesn't make much of a difference. A valid comparison would be assuming the KKK was running pretty much every white Christian country. While the KKK is a weak force with no political power, the ones killing apostates have complete power. So whether Islam says to do it or the "Muslim KKK" says to do it doesn't make much difference if the "Muslim KKK" is in charge.

Nisaar
25 Aug 04,, 15:04
Look, thats probably totally correct, but it really doesn't make much of a difference. A valid comparison would be assuming the KKK was running pretty much every white Christian country. While the KKK is a weak force with no political power, the ones killing apostates have complete power. So whether Islam says to do it or the "Muslim KKK" says to do it doesn't make much difference if the "Muslim KKK" is in charge.

Sad, but absolutely correct. What I was trying to say is that
it is not part of the religion to do so.

tarek
09 Sep 04,, 20:56
Nisar says "militants" will kill you if you convert - but fact is that "militants" are the only "real" muslims today - all the claims that Islam is a "dawa" or "invitation" to salvation, unfortunately, cannot stand the test of evidence to the contrary.

So, which is the real Islam? Anyway, why should non-Muslims care which is the real islam? If they can't agree on what is Islam, how can the rest of the world and regardless of which ever version of Islam the non-Muslim world is going to accept, it is still be wrong to a significant number of Muslims.

humpty dumpty.....

Confed999
10 Sep 04,, 03:13
that "militants" are the only "real" muslims today
We have good Muslims on this board.

Major_Armstrong
10 Sep 04,, 03:18
Look what they're talking about here:

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21

tarek
10 Sep 04,, 05:33
yeah, lots of "good" Muslims everywhere it seems :frown:

Ray
10 Sep 04,, 10:09
but fact is that "militants" are the only "real" muslims today

Anyway, why should non-Muslims care which is the real islam? If they can't agree on what is Islam

Personally, I don't think that the militants are the only real Moslems. Unfortuantely, since it is the most visible side of Islam, it gets credence that it is the real Islam.

This is more so when the enlightened Moslems protests at this rabid face of Islam is muted, almost as if talking to themselves is veiwed against the uttering of some the the most famous Moslem clerics rabid sound bytes calling for a jihad and even praising the terrorists! Obviously, it creates a whole lot of confusion in the non Moslem minds.

There are contradictory intepretation in the Islamic Holy books. This adds to more confusion. I am sure there are equal contracdictions in other religion's books. However, the only difference is that they are not being used to threaten other peoples' life or workaday routine. The day such a thing happens, they too would be under condemnation as radical Islam is facing.

I am sure those who wish to live a normal life would surely like to understand Islam the way the enlightened Moslems would like others to understand.

If 'jihad' means a fight within one's own mind and soul to cleanse oneself (as one is told by the educated), then it is time that Moslems conduct jihad within themselves and forget about the others, be they infidels, non believers or mere bums.

In today's world of most being educated, conversion or evangelism or religious fights have no place.

Even Bush didn't say it was a war against Islam. He said war on terror. It is not his fault that Osama and his handmaidens were not Christians.

America waged a war against Hitler. He was a Christian - a rabid Christian. Tet none said that he was interpreting the Bible correctly! They said he was a bum and treated him so. Same should be done for Osama and his types. None will then go hammer and tongs against rabid Islam and their followers!

tarek
10 Sep 04,, 17:50
Ray:

This "radical islam" stuff is much, much bigger than you may think, it not just Osama - We are all better served by being truthful and if we contnue to pretend in a effort to not ruffle any feathers, well, we would end up telling lies and creating lies --- think about it, how is that "enlightened moderation" is something that most so called Muslims want nothing of, how is it that literal readings of Koran have greater acceptance among so called muslims, than the notion that the reading of any text is dependent on the ideas that the reader brings to the reading, that these ideas serve as "lens" through which we see.

Reality is that islam and most muslims, today, are in a world of doo do and more we deny it or soft peddle it the more difficult we wil make it for persons to free themselves of this doo do -- by the way, you will be able to better judge the scale of the problem by evaluating how the upcoming aniversary is to be treated -- my bet: you will see more cognitive disonance, more denial, more finger pointing at the American, the jew, the christian, the hindu and ofcourse notice if any official will have the cojones to challenge this version.

There is no hiding from this vile and entirely objectionable reality, we are in a whirlwind and are fast losing our ability to arrest the whirlwind or extracate ourselves from it, those who neighbor so called muslim countries have little choice but to raise their guard.

Ray
10 Sep 04,, 20:24
Tarek,

Your name suggests you are a Moslem. If that be so, then I can't say anything, but it has a whole lot of consolation to the non Moslem mindset. As Abu Ben Adhem's tribe increased, may yours too.

The unfortunate part is that in Islam, the rules (as what we see here in India) cannot be changed. It is ordained. So which Moslem would dare to go against the concept.

There were folks like Iqbal who spoke of change. None allowed that. He was accused of blaspheming. We have not MJ Akbar and Zakaria and Engineer in India. They have been told to quit. I can produce what they ahve siad, but then I don't want a flame war since it matters not what I feel or what the Moslems on teh forum feels. It is only when the majority of Moslems feel, it will matter.

So?

tarek
10 Sep 04,, 21:14
Ray:

Just be cautious about those who use "majority" to mean the same as correct and right. But lets also not let Akbars, Zakarias and Engineer off the hook either and here I am suggesting that we empploy modern advertising/opinion making, afterall, why not, what do we have lose that we have not lost already?? The success of the methodology of the radical is no mystery.