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Interesting Comment on the F-117

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  • Interesting Comment on the F-117

    I was watching a documentary on Wings the other night that had interviews with the men who designed the F-117. The original paint scheme on Have Blue was of course vastly different than the jet-black we see today.

    He commented that the US asked for it to be black, and he said that black wasn't the best color for a night attack aircraft.

    Was the original camo scheme better for hiding it visually in the night sky, and if so why? Logic tells me that black on black is best, but I can't bring myself to argue with such a professional who has seen it all.

  • #2
    Pitch black isn't good, cuz the sky is rarely that dark a shade of black, and something that dark would be almost as visible at night as in daytime
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by bigross86
      Pitch black isn't good, cuz the sky is rarely that dark a shade of black, and something that dark would be almost as visible at night as in daytime
      True. I think it's also important to note that the more ground light you have, such as being inner city, the more drowned out and darker the sky becomes to light sensitive objects like eyes and some equipment. For instance you see far more stars in the sky in a barren field in the middle of nowhere.

      I would think in the case of Baghdad, they were at an advantage because of all the lightshows caused by AA. It would decrease the further away from Baghdad they got, but there's less resistance and AA anyway so it balances out perhaps.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Se7eN
        True. I think it's also important to note that the more ground light you have, such as being inner city, the more drowned out and darker the sky becomes to light sensitive objects like eyes and some equipment. For instance you see far more stars in the sky in a barren field in the middle of nowhere.

        I would think in the case of Baghdad, they were at an advantage because of all the lightshows caused by AA. It would decrease the further away from Baghdad they got, but there's less resistance and AA anyway so it balances out perhaps.
        Yep, very true. Its the same reason why you can't see stars in any of the moon landing photographs.

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        • #5
          well one was shot down by AAA fire in bosnia, but that might just be luck. i dunno, it could be a little lighter, more grey.
          "I'm against picketting, but i dont know how to show it"

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          • #6
            The one in Bosnia(the only one shot down in battle in over 1000 combat sorties by the way- a loss rate of about 0.01%) was shot down by a hail of SAMs, after it flew an identical ingress- egress route at approx the same time three nights in a row.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by M21Sniper
              The one in Bosnia(the only one shot down in battle in over 1000 combat sorties by the way- a loss rate of about 0.01%) was shot down by a hail of SAMs, after it flew an identical ingress- egress route at approx the same time three nights in a row.
              common stop this tales.... to hit the plane the missile must be guided (you can't fill the air with missiles like rain :)

              So either it found and locked on the target itself or the target was found and tacked from the ground... and it was not a television guiding - BUK is not equipped with television guilding + F-117 was shot in the night......

              I don't know what type of radars were used for testing F-117 but long band radars could see the bird at least once..... would you then bet it won't happen again? Probably they could not see long/far enough with this old equipement so the frequency of using the same route helped a lot....

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              • #8
                Long wave radars cannot guide a missile.

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                • #9
                  The Missiles were guided by IR and they tracked the aircraft using opticle tracking.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Praxus
                    The Missiles were guided by IR and they tracked the aircraft using opticle tracking.
                    again I see this american washed brains.... guys do you feel how this soap is going out of you after all this brain washing? You sound just like old time soviets. Never see anything that does not corresponds to your beliefs.... - Iraq has WMD because we think it is hiden... amercian weapons is the best because it is american.... very few of you ever had direct experience with modern Russian weapons but you all feel confident enough to make so many stupid and bold statements.... Why I don't say much about American weapons? I know few about it.... but I do have a bit about Russian/Soviet products. OK back to the topic. I really spend some time on this particular issue... and if you don't believe me I give you arguments which you can check:

                    1) this particular Night Hawk was shot donw in the night... (give yourself a time to find it in some news)
                    2) BUK has not optical guiding.... no Yug weapon has... even if it did optical guiding is usually used for large targets which are slow or not moving.
                    3) IR is rarelly used in SAMs... but rather on portable and very short range systems like Strela and Igla.... BUK or KUB were anyway SAR guided
                    4) M21 "long band radars can not be used for guiding" - bulls shit. You better say "short range radars do it is better"... it is absolutelly possible and moreover old soviet systems do guide SAMs and have long wave radars.... Problem with longer wave is that range would be far shorter.

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                    • #11
                      My favourite planes - The MiG-21 and MiG-29, have both shot the F-117 down

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mr_Hitler
                        My favourite planes - The MiG-21 and MiG-29, have both shot the F-117 down
                        Never heard of such incident happened although I did saw in the news that F-117 was shot down couple of years back but I thought it was shot down by SAM not Mig

                        Off the topic, as mentioned above some weapon is best because its american well come to think of it United States has the biggest military budget in the world so it should be obvious it is atleast among the best if not the best, money talks you know :)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Fury
                          Never heard of such incident happened although I did saw in the news that F-117 was shot down couple of years back but I thought it was shot down by SAM not a MiG

                          Yugoslavia claims an F-117 was downed by a Yugoslav AF Mig-21, reported to be flown by Ppolk. Gvozden Dijukich and another one was shot down by a Mig-29 over Budjanovci.

                          Also, Americas a bubble economy, its bound to burst soon, unlike the EU in Europe which is alot more stable and strong. Indo-Russia joint defence ventures are also very good, with both Aryan nations going to produce 5th generation stealth fighters which are faster and alot cheaper then the F-22 Raptor.

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                          • #14
                            May I ask what you were thinking when you registered a username such as "Mr Hitler"? This is not permissible and I'll consider changing your username to something not stupid as you have yet to break forum rules otherwise.
                            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr_Hitler
                              Yugoslavia claims an F-117 was downed by a Yugoslav AF Mig-21, reported to be flown by Ppolk. Gvozden Dijukich and another one was shot down by a Mig-29 over Budjanovci.

                              Also, Americas a bubble economy, its bound to burst soon, unlike the EU in Europe which is alot more stable and strong. Indo-Russia joint defence ventures are also very good, with both Aryan nations going to produce 5th generation stealth fighters which are faster and alot cheaper then the F-22 Raptor.
                              You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The Yugoslav claims are baseless. I can confirm that with the highest confidence.

                              If America's economy is going to burst, everyone is in trouble.

                              I'll believe Indo-Russia joint venture when I see the plane fly.

                              Your username is insulting, idiotic, and confirms you're a damned fool.

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