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  • Chechnya

    About a year ago, I read an article saying that Russian troops had captured, a key rebel out post, and that the war would end in 3 months tops... well um its not over what do you think russia should do in chechnya?
    Dont change fact...
    Scincerely, Napoleon

  • #2
    Years ago I supported their independance, when they turned to extremist terrorist tactics, and terrorists, I gave up on them. People in busses, clubs and movies are not viable government targets, and anyone who targets them purposely, loses all right to their movement, be it freedom or otherwise.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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    • #3
      There was a similar situation after 1920s - "partisan" movements of the "warlord" gangs were terrorising Ukraine/Middle East/Caucasus and other borders of the old Empire.

      It took almost 15 years then to eradicate them (even they were not entirely eradicated), even with the methods that in todays world will not be acceptable.

      So I think that everyone just should have patience and remember that noone can have peace with those people. They understand freedom only as freedom to kill, pillage and take hostages for ransom.

      As always - the only ways to get them would be:
      1. Get their leaders
      2. Remove their support (financial and other)


      Both those factors exists, and how Pr. Putin said "Russia does not talk to terrorists, Russia kills them".

      Comment


      • #4
        The west would definately be better off if Chechnya was under Russian control, the last we need is another islamo-fascist regime.

        The Chechyens do not want freedom, they never have. They want to institute their own little dictatorship like the Palestinians want to.
        Last edited by Praxus; 23 Jun 04,, 01:01.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Confed999
          Years ago I supported their independance, when they turned to extremist terrorist tactics, and terrorists, I gave up on them. People in busses, clubs and movies are not viable government targets, and anyone who targets them purposely, loses all right to their movement, be it freedom or otherwise.
          This happened after Wahabbi's moved in and corrupted the whole movement. It seems they are the root of almost all the trouble spots here Islamic militants are concerned.

          If each & every Muslim was of the Sufi denomination, there probably wouldn't be any problems with Islamists.

          Of course the current war against Terror could just be considered the free world deciding to put an end to "the third great Jihad". Which Ayatollah Khomeini said had started after the Shah of Iran was overthrown. That was also the same year the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. IMO both those could be taken as fighting the good fight, or going the route of evil. And obviously a lot of the Mujihadeen have taken the latter.

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          • #6
            Here's an update. Apparently this has been done by local Ingushetians, not Chechen Rebels. And Russia changed around it's most wanted list by saying one Magomed Yevloyev is a Wahabbi Terrorist that has more authority than Abdullah Shamil. (Basayev's new name)


            Toll climbs in terror attacks


            Associated Press
            Vladikavkaz, Russia — Ninety-two people were killed and 120 wounded in night-time attacks on the Russian republic of Ingushetia earlier this week, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported, citing the regional government.


            Sixty-seven of the dead were members of law-enforcement agencies, ITAR-Tass said.


            The regional branch of Russia's Federal Security Service received information about the movements of an armed group in cars about 30 minutes before the start of attacks late Monday night, ITAR-Tass quoted the deputy of the regional FSB branch, Andrei Konin, as saying.


            ”But we did not expect such an extent, simultaneous attacks on 15 sites,” Mr. Konin was quoted as saying.


            In a lightning visit to Ingushetia on Tuesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin said a regiment of Interior Ministry forces would be stationed permanently there, raising the Kremlin's troop commitment to the troubled Caucasus region.


            The co-ordinated assaults by heavily armed fighters on police and border guards facilities in the main Ingush city of Nazran and several smaller settlements was a graphic demonstration of Russian forces' vulnerability to guerrilla fighters. Ingush police said that many of their number were killed in along the road as the attackers stopped official cars at checkpoints and inspected identification papers.


            For the approximately four hours that the fighting raged, the extremists — whom Ingush police estimated to number up to 200 — controlled police checkpoints along much of the 80-kilometre Ingush stretch of the Trans-Caucasus highway, the main route used by the Russian military in the region.


            Thousands of Russian troops streamed into Ingushetia on Tuesday to search for the attackers, who were believed to have fled into the thick woods along the Chechen border, over the mountains into Georgia, or back to their home towns in Ingushetia itself.


            Mr. Putin, meeting with Ingush President Murat Zyazikov, said the search for the attackers must go on ”as long as necessary.”


            ”It's a new attempt, not the first one, to intimidate the Ingush, intimidate the leadership of the republic, and destabilize the situation in the south of Russia,” Mr. Putin was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency.


            Five alleged attackers were detained, Ingush Interior Ministry spokesman Yakhya Khadziyev said. Two of the suspects were wounded.


            Chechen Interior Minister Alu Alkhanov, the Kremlin's candidate to replace slain Chechen president Akhmad Kadyrov, said that the attacks had been led by an Ingushetia-based rebel leader, Magomed Yevloyev, Interfax said. His deputy, Ruslan Alkhanov, told Interfax that Mr. Yevloyev was a leader of the extremist Wahhabi Islamic group.


            The brazen assaults raised new doubts about the Kremlin's strategy in Chechnya. Unable to defeat the rebels and refusing to negotiate with them, the Kremlin instead has banked on restoring stability through civil measures, including holding elections for a Chechen president and promising the republic a substantial amount of autonomy.


            Kremlin-backed Chechen president Akhmad Kadyrov was assassinated in May, and Aslan Maskhadov, Chechnya's former separatist president, said last week that the rebels were preparing new offensives.


            Major-General Ilya Shabalkin, spokesman for the Russian forces in Chechnya, accused Chechen rebels of planning the attacks but said the raids were carried out by fighters recruited from both Chechnya and Ingushetia, the Interfax-Military News Agency reported.


            Although the Chechen war occasionally spilled into Ingushetia, the republic has remained comparatively stable, and a significant recruitment of Ingush fighters could foretell a wide spread of the war beyond Chechnya.


            ”The attacks were clearly sabre-rattling, aimed to demonstrate the rebels' effectiveness to attract funding from foreign terrorist networks,” Gen. Shabalkin was quoted as saying.


            Although Chechnya is a largely Muslim region in overwhelmingly Christian Russia, the first of Chechnya's two wars was an essentially secular conflict. After Russian troops pulled out when Chechen rebels fought them to a standstill, the separatists increasingly took on a specifically Islamic mantle.


            Flags flew at half-mast and all entertainment programs in Ingushetia were cancelled from Wednesday through Friday to mark the official mourning period.

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            • #7
              Chechens and Ingushi is basically one nation - vajnahi. So you can't say that it was "Ingushi" only.
              They have relatives on the both sides of border, and attacks has been known happening in Ingushetia for a long time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lurker
                Chechens and Ingushi is basically one nation - vajnahi. So you can't say that it was "Ingushi" only.
                They have relatives on the both sides of border, and attacks has been known happening in Ingushetia for a long time.
                What attacks? And when? You going to say that Dagestan and Georgia is also part of the "vajnahi"?

                This is just the first big kickoff to the summer offensives. And it looks like this is the year of the big surprise attacks. Judging by the fact they drove off with lorries full of weapons...they have new recruits that need them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lunatock
                  What attacks? And when? You going to say that Dagestan and Georgia is also part of the "vajnahi"?
                  Lol ;) Just look on Google for "Galashki". You will find plenty of "what" and "when".
                  Do you know where Galashki is? Marked by cross below.

                  No. Dagestan and Georgia are not part of the "vajnahi". But people living in Georgia's Pankissi are ethnic chechens (Kistin Chechens).

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                  • #10
                    The Russians are doing better then the Arabs, there are 1 billion of them and they can't even destroy a country of 7,000,000.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Praxus
                      The west would definately be better off if Chechnya was under Russian control, the last we need is another islamo-fascist regime.

                      The Chechyens do not want freedom, they never have. They want to institute their own little dictatorship like the Palestinians want to.
                      Stalin sort-of expected that too and prevented that by massively deporting them to the gulag ;)

                      The war in Chechenya, after seperatists started stirring things up, was onavoidable. Making Chechenya (and Dagestan, Ingushetia etc. aswell [?]) would be out of the question, because noone wants islamic fundamentalists near the borders (hence the war in Afghanistan).

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Praxus
                        The Russians are doing better then the Arabs, there are 1 billion of them and they can't even destroy a country of 7,000,000.

                        was that sarcasim or did i miss sumthing???

                        but russia doesnt want to destroy chechenya though it does any way russia just want to keep them from boming russia over and over there is no stratigic importance over this stuborn ass country... i seriously think they wouldnt be better off pulling out either... but then again not all of the ppl are anti-russian pricks who tell 12 year olds to launch an rpg at a tank. i think chechenya was corrupted by some al-queda group. i think i missed sumthing in that....o well
                        Dont change fact...
                        Scincerely, Napoleon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RUSKIE
                          was that sarcasim or did i miss sumthing???

                          but russia doesnt want to destroy chechenya though it does any way russia just want to keep them from boming russia over and over there is no stratigic importance over this stuborn ass country... i seriously think they wouldnt be better off pulling out either... but then again not all of the ppl are anti-russian pricks who tell 12 year olds to launch an rpg at a tank. i think chechenya was corrupted by some al-queda group. i think i missed sumthing in that....o well
                          Actually they've been going at it with Russia since the time of Ivan The Terrible, who was the first Russian ruler to march troops into Chechnya. It wasn't even twenty years ago that they started getting help from the Jihad cause that was monopolised by OBL.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Praxus
                            The Russians are doing better then the Arabs, there are 1 billion of them and they can't even destroy a country of 7,000,000.
                            Russia can burn chechnya down to ashes and kill every chechen, but wants to bring them to normal life instead.

                            Sometimes I think destruction is better, though it's inhumane.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Who said only Chechens are fighting against Russia in Chechenya?? Freedom fighters in this age are imported from various madrassas around the world. They dont have any ideology, just brain washed folks used as cannon fodder by OBN types.
                              A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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