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headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 00:04
Look what is on the history channel tonight!

Time Machine
Nazi America: A Secret History
In a 2-hour survey of Nazism in the U.S., we trace the history from the fairly benign organization that gave structure to newly-arrived German immigrants to today's neo-Nazis, who breach the borderline of free speech by using radical action to force their agenda of Aryan purity. It's also a history of the imperfection of American freedom.

http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?NetwCode=THC

This is why I came to this board! And this is why I wan't to have a disscussion on propaganda! Oh man you guys gotta watch this. I stumbled onto this movement here in america by accident. It is disturbing. I talked with several people involved.... they are forming a revolution and all kinds of stuff. But I don't want to say quite yet because I don't want anybody to dismiss me out of hand. I'll say this.. they are working towards a holocaust here in america. Oh, just watch the show. I don't know everything there is to know about this movement but I know they are serious dangerous and well organized and have quite a successful propaganda machine going. tHEY ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT POTENTIAL RADICAL CHANGE AGENTS RIGHT NOW. I think they are international .. I have theories but not a whole lot of solid stuff. The stuff I do know for certain I learned by talking to them so I don't even have much documentation to support any of the information I do have. I did have a bunch of things they sent me in my email. But I don't even have that anymore because somebody broke into my email and deleted it all... or a lot of it. REALLY

Oh, just watch the show

er

Aryan
14 May 04,, 00:12
Look what is on the history channel tonight!

Time Machine
Nazi America: A Secret History
In a 2-hour survey of Nazism in the U.S., we trace the history from the fairly benign organization that gave structure to newly-arrived German immigrants to today's neo-Nazis, who breach the borderline of free speech by using radical action to force their agenda of Aryan purity. It's also a history of the imperfection of American freedom.

http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?NetwCode=THC

This is why I came to this board! And this is why I wan't to have a disscussion on propaganda! Oh man you guys gotta watch this. I stumbled onto this movement here in america by accident. It is disturbing. I talked with several people involved.... they are forming a revolution and all kinds of stuff. But I don't want to say quite yet because I don't want anybody to dismiss me out of hand. I'll say this.. they are working towards a holocaust here in america. Oh, just watch the show. I don't know everything there is to know about this movement but I know they are serious dangerous and well organized and have quite a successful propaganda machine going. tHEY ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT POTENTIAL RADICAL CHANGE AGENTS RIGHT NOW. I think they are international .. I have theories but not a whole lot of solid stuff. The stuff I do know for certain I learned by talking to them so I don't even have much documentation to support any of the information I do have. I did have a bunch of things they sent me in my email. But I don't even have that anymore because somebody broke into my email and deleted it all... or a lot of it. REALLY

Oh, just watch the show

er


Sounds really interesting, but unfortunately I can't watch it. I don't get US channels.

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 02:04
Sounds really interesting, but unfortunately I can't watch it. I don't get US channels.

check out the site. I would love to hear your views on this show.

I guess this is a good place to begine our discussion if you don't mind.

are you European?

What do you think of these fellows, ever heard of em?

http://www.ngws.org/

http://www.goodwill.f9.co.uk/ngws.htm

and this symbol on the front of this book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0874774586/102-6370940-0964900?v=glance

What do you think of Wahabism? I prob didn't spell that right...

and most importantly what do you think of European Unity.

and can you please help me understand the differences between Nazism and facism.

Thanks

er

oh yea you asked what I thought of homosexuality. My oppinion isn't really important though but I will share anyway. I think homosexuals should be treated with the same respect as anybody else, I think they are humans with needs weeknesses and strenghts, bad qualities and good qualities. But I think homosexuality is as wrong as adultry and is detrimental to the individuals as well as society, just as adultry. The militant homosexual movement... drives me nuts I have conflicting feeling on this one. Every minority in society has been targeted as potential agents of change, many homosexuals who have joined this movement has turned himself over to be used as a pawn. THIS KIND OF exploitation of these groups pisses me off at the wizards behind the curtin... oh I cannot stand them! But I think a certain amount of responsibility falls on the shoulders of those who are being used. Nobody should ever just join a movement without carefully examining it. Now I wanna ask you... are you the really great guy who just hasn't been able to find the right one yet.

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 02:06
and these guys!!!

http://members.aol.com/xmaspiracy/

now be honest. Are you familure with these guys? I am not asking if you are associated.

er

Lunatock
14 May 04,, 03:40
Look what is on the history channel tonight!

Time Machine
Nazi America: A Secret History
In a 2-hour survey of Nazism in the U.S., we trace the history from the fairly benign organization that gave structure to newly-arrived German immigrants to today's neo-Nazis, who breach the borderline of free speech by using radical action to force their agenda of Aryan purity. It's also a history of the imperfection of American freedom.

http://www.historychannel.com/global/listings/listings.jsp?NetwCode=THC

This is why I came to this board! And this is why I wan't to have a disscussion on propaganda! Oh man you guys gotta watch this. I stumbled onto this movement here in america by accident. It is disturbing. I talked with several people involved.... they are forming a revolution and all kinds of stuff. But I don't want to say quite yet because I don't want anybody to dismiss me out of hand. I'll say this.. they are working towards a holocaust here in america. Oh, just watch the show. I don't know everything there is to know about this movement but I know they are serious dangerous and well organized and have quite a successful propaganda machine going. tHEY ARE TRYING TO RECRUIT POTENTIAL RADICAL CHANGE AGENTS RIGHT NOW. I think they are international .. I have theories but not a whole lot of solid stuff. The stuff I do know for certain I learned by talking to them so I don't even have much documentation to support any of the information I do have. I did have a bunch of things they sent me in my email. But I don't even have that anymore because somebody broke into my email and deleted it all... or a lot of it. REALLY

Oh, just watch the show

er

Wouldn't put it past these hate groups to wish to become as big as Nazi Germany was during WW2. Unfortunately for them, they've been getting downsized by the US Government, namely the FBI these past three or four years.

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 05:24
Wouldn't put it past these hate groups to wish to become as big as Nazi Germany was during WW2. Unfortunately for them, they've been getting downsized by the US Government, namely the FBI these past three or four years.

Yea, the fbi rocks. But these guys are disterbing and dangerous and ... they are still gaining momentum. This is also personal for me because they POSE as fundamental Christians and political conservatives . It's like they poured themselves into a politically conservative and fundament christian mold hijacked all the political political platform and then carry out terrorist acts and other stuff in the name of Christianity and political conservatism. Also it seems like they work hand in glove with the hateful side of the left. The left paints this outlandish and distorted picture of C/c and then these guys present themselves as proof positive that the left's rediculous claims are valid. Seeing is believing. Youve seen them, like the idiot we all saw screeming and freeking out over that 10 commandments monument issue. They are the ones holding signs that declare "God hates fags" Remember wakco? I thought Bill Clinton was for sure launching a crusade against off beat christians and gun owners. I hate to say it but he was right, and on the money going after those guys. The left calls Bush a facist.... but these guys hate Bush and this is where the picture get real disterbing. Their propaganda on Bush the war and our government the FBI, the CIA and so on is almost exactly like the propaganda of the Islamic radicals. They preach the same message on many issues but with different terms suited for the religion and region. They are spreading out in the same net work style as alquida or how ever it is spelled but here in america they claim to be presbyterian with anabaptist heritiage. :eek: They clearly have reached the second stage. I hear their propaganda on the local radio station and preached on the local tv channel. Iread it in books written by "christians and liberals" And they are broadcasting in cities all across this country... They are targeting the youth They are preparing for armed resistance if martial law is ever declaired. But they probably would be the ones that caused the crisis. They're the ones who tell us we cannot trust our military and that there are consentration camps being set up all over this country. Remember the goal isn't to defet the military but to ingnite a civil war. They do this by filling the citizens with fear and misstrust of their government.. They have murdered, and threatened the lives of those on the net who are trying to expose them... they are seeping into the churches all across this country. They wrap themselves in the American flag and the undiserning eye wouldn't be able to tell the difference between what I am and what they are..... They don't call America "the great satan.".. They call it "Babylon"... and they are the agents that will deliver Gods wrath upon Babylon.

They are like the C/c s evil twin.

I haven't yet watched the program that is on tonight ... I don't know if the show is about these guys I am telling you about or some other group... I hope it is informative.

catch it if you can
er

Lunatock
14 May 04,, 07:12
Thought you were referring to the white supremist movement. But this just looks like something for the tin foil hat crowd.

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 08:50
Thought you were referring to the white supremist movement. But this just looks like something for the tin foil hat crowd.

No, you are right I was talking about the white supremist movement. I just didn't realize it because they approached me as "conservative and christian" anti liberal (appearently liberal means jew) pro family pro-life, patriotic and they never said anything about race.

The show was very interesting, and they confirmed something I suspected, the internet is their vehicle for propaganda... duh. BUT MORE INPORTANTLY The Nazi movement is exploiting freedom of religion and trying to combine christianity with nazism. JUST AS I SUSPECTED but wasn't sure because they had never mentioned race as part of their platform. But what the history channel failed to mentioned that they along with having their own web pages they will hang out on christian and political website possing as your average joe christian only with a different perspective on interpreting the bible in order to seak out new recruits.. Also I think they set up boards and advertise themselves as orthodox christians to lure unsespecting traditional christians in to chat, then very subtly begin to challenge and undermine the orthodox views while posing their new interpretations that suit the goals of the movements . I think this because when I tried to warn a monitor at a supposedly traditional christian board, that there where radicals misrepresenting themselves on the board AND SUGGESTING WE START A 2ND AMERICAN REVOLUTION TO OVER THROW THE CURRENT ORDER... IN THE NAME OF CHRIST... THEY BANDED ME! KICK ME OFF.. NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED MY PRIVET MESSAGES. weird hu? Also they are using brainwashing techs... not just open face retoric. What a shock.. dishonest nazies.
I am tired I hope that all made sence.
er

btw.. after the show tonight i took a quick look at their theology and right away I recognized that their theology is form of esoteric weird stuff.. not biblical in anyway shape or form.

Bill
14 May 04,, 15:04
What, does Aryan claim to be a Nazi or something?

Jay
14 May 04,, 16:49
What, does Aryan claim to be a Nazi or something?
He calls himself an Aryan nationalist...I really dont know what it means! He's proud of his glorious race, heritage and past.And I dont know whats so glorious!!

Bill
14 May 04,, 17:24
I hate Nazis.

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 19:04
It's better to try to understand them... Hate is irrational


He calls himself an Aryan nationalist...I really dont know what it means! He's proud of his glorious race, heritage and past.And I dont know whats so glorious!!

I don't get the difference.... and there seems to be alot of people who call themselves lots of different things but they look like Nazis or a Nazis' close cousnin Like anarchist... ya I know they don't believe in any form of government... right what ever, not untill there is anarchy! Nobody really wants that. But anarchist preach the same propaganda as american nazis and french nationals and some dude I talked to in germany another in england.

I don't get em.. I guess, well it seems that counter cultureal movements generally have lots of little groups who have different lables but their ends seem to be generally the same, just the means are different. THERE ARE ALL THESE GROUPS THAT PREACH THE SAME PROPAGANDA, BUT DON'T ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH EACH OTHER. ie.. Islamic propagandist have the same conspiracy theories about 911 as anarchist and some facist I have talked to. I dont know... I am trying to figure all this stuff out by my self.. I am about to give up and an go buy a book. I have been doing this off and on for 3 years

er

er

Lunatock
14 May 04,, 19:37
It's better to try to understand them... Hate is irrational

I hate them. because I understand there is a local vipers nest of those terrorist POS's that have already tried to kill me once, and would try again if they had a big enough set for dealing with the consequences part two.

My understanding is quite clear, they deserve to be on the same level as Al-Qaeda. Members of either group would just as gladly kill me given the chance.

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 10:19
I hate them. because I understand there is a local vipers nest of those terrorist POS's that have already tried to kill me once, and would try again if they had a big enough set for dealing with the consequences part two.

My understanding is quite clear, they deserve to be on the same level as Al-Qaeda. Members of either group would just as gladly kill me given the chance.


And I agree, they all deserve a good killen but emotion can't be the basis. But if they tried to kill you then I guess you can be a lil emotional about it... BUT REMEMBER... EMOTIONAL PEOPLE ARE EASIER TO BRAINWASH :rolleyes:

Now explain to me what the hell are you talking about? Nazis have tried to kill you? What is "POS"? Do they want to kill you for any specific reason other than that you are an American?

Tell me the whole story. This is too interesting.
btw I am glad your okay and they failed.


if they had a big enough set for dealing with the consequences part two.

set of what? consequences part two? Are you talking in code? English pleez..

er

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 10:24
I forgot

What is W.A.B? What kind of spiritual leader are you?

er

ChrisF202
15 May 04,, 14:11
WAB is Worlds Affaris Board, the old name of the board, and hes been here for as far as I know so hes like the spirutal leader, giving guidance, etc. As for the trying to be killed part I dont know. He said in another thread that he was a Muslim, so I guess maybe the local hate group bombed the mosque or targeted Muslim looking people for drive-bys, im sure he'll tell us.

Aryan
15 May 04,, 17:27
barbie

I'm British born and lived here most of my life, although I possess dual nationality. I've also lived in Germany (Hamburg) part of my life and can speak German though the last time I did was around 4 years ago.

My father has German nationality (although Kashmiri-Pakistani by birth), and my mother is from a Persian family who settled in Lahore(and later emigrated).

My racial background is 100% Aryan, a caucasoid race, so by all definitions I am European.

I went on the websites you gave me, and most of them seemed to be cultist brainwashing type..

Wahabism is a fanatical religious order found mainly in Saudi Arabia and is the ideology practiced by Osama et al. I have no problem with it just as long as it stays within the boundaries of Saudi Arabia, something which it hasn't been doing lately.

Aryan
15 May 04,, 17:38
M21

I'm certainly not a Nazi, I absolutely detest them, perhaps more than you do so because of thier expoitation of my Aryan race.

Aryan to most has now become a dirty word because of their actions, let me say it again, Nazis weren't Aryan!

Jay

Yeah, I'm an Aryan nationalist, but that doesn't necessarily make me a fascist or nazi, my views on Aryanism aren't very much different to any right winger's views on their own race/nationality, I certainly don't believe in racial supremacism of any sort.
If you like, I'll make a seperate thread on the many achievements of the Aryan race sometime, because I'd hate to bring another thread off topic.

headlessbarbie
16 May 04,, 03:44
barbie

I'm British born and lived here most of my life, although I possess dual nationality. I've also lived in Germany (Hamburg) part of my life and can speak German though the last time I did was around 4 years ago.

My father has German nationality (although Kashmiri-Pakistani by birth), and my mother is from a Persian family who settled in Lahore(and later emigrated).

My racial background is 100% Aryan, a caucasoid race, so by all definitions I am European.

I went on the websites you gave me, and most of them seemed to be cultist brainwashing type..

Wahabism is a fanatical religious order found mainly in Saudi Arabia and is the ideology practiced by Osama et al. I have no problem with it just as long as it stays within the boundaries of Saudi Arabia, something which it hasn't been doing lately.

Hmmm. Interesting. Do you know anything about those militant groups? I have run accross these people on the web. The preach somthing that sounds like National Socialism to me. Didn't you say that your political views where somewhere along that line.

I mentioned these people simply because I would like to discuss them with some body who knows something about them. http://www.ngws.org/
They are suprisingly powerful and influential people. I am pretty sure these same people wrote a book titled "global goals 2000" and the Aquarian Conspiracy. If they are the same people they are so powerful they are able to manipulate the price we pay for gas, what is taught in our schools, some of the movies that we watch on tv and at the theaters, what is preached in our place of worship and who leads our countries! Really! This is kinda disterbing to me for several reason but mostly because they openly state that they are in touch with the next Christ and they are helping to prepare the way for his "return" to help humanity to evlove to the next level... okay. If I said this to a mental health prophesional about my self they would start me on anti psycotics and stick me into an institution. Are you familure with them at all?

Please help me to understand why race is so important to you. And what is the differences in Facist and Nazis and National Socialist.

You have a very interesting family and cultural back ground. Intreging

er

Bill
16 May 04,, 06:47
I hate Nazis.

Confed999
16 May 04,, 16:18
Yeah, I'm an Aryan nationalist, but that doesn't necessarily make me a fascist or nazi, my views on Aryanism aren't very much different to any right winger's views on their own race/nationality, I certainly don't believe in racial supremacism of any sort.
If you like, I'll make a seperate thread on the many achievements of the Aryan race sometime, because I'd hate to bring another thread off topic.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. ;)

visioninthedark
20 May 04,, 00:00
The word "ARYAN" has been perverted and given evil-connotations by the evil Nazis ....

they perverted this word to mean racist .... which is NOT true ...

every nation has a RIGHT to be proud of its heritage and ancestors .... so do the aryans ....

lexxwern
20 May 04,, 06:13
Come to think about it, technically and just technically, I'm supposed to be from Aryan lineage. Yeah, I do have to typical aryan features, and was very fair when I was younger, but the north Indian summers tanned me to brown, but still regall royal brown .. :rolleyes:

Quite a few of us here in India (hmm could be 10-15%). I don't know what to say about it. I guess as long as I'm not radical I would have proved a point to the people ..

I believe being Nazi is different from being Aryan.

Aryan
21 May 04,, 01:05
Come to think about it, technically and just technically, I'm supposed to be from Aryan lineage. Yeah, I do have to typical aryan features, and was very fair when I was younger, but the north Indian summers tanned me to brown, but still regall royal brown .. :rolleyes:

Quite a few of us here in India (hmm could be 10-15%). I don't know what to say about it. I guess as long as I'm not radical I would have proved a point to the people ..

I believe being Nazi is different from being Aryan.

What province of India are you from? Also what is your caste? Yeah, you are right, quite a few Indians are Aryan as well..

lexxwern
21 May 04,, 12:04
state .. not province :)

well my family has traveled a lot in within India .. our actual home was the kingdom of magadh, but under some kings invasion of the south we migrated there .. then the last 3 generations have migrated back to the north, I'm now in New Delhi ..

The beuaty is my family's migrations record is inscribed in some temple wall in a temple in tamil nadu .. I've seen it, totally cool! :biggrin:

I am a brahmin by caste, fairly upper one even within brahmin sub caste's

headlessbarbie
02 Jun 04,, 09:35
state .. not province :)

well my family has traveled a lot in within India .. our actual home was the kingdom of magadh, but under some kings invasion of the south we migrated there .. then the last 3 generations have migrated back to the north, I'm now in New Delhi ..

The beuaty is my family's migrations record is inscribed in some temple wall in a temple in tamil nadu .. I've seen it, totally cool! :biggrin:

I am a brahmin by caste, fairly upper one even within brahmin sub caste's


But what is the big deal about race? I just don't get it. Maybe it is because I am American and race has never been an issue, never. I don't even know what race I am! I thought I was a white girl of German decent. My mom was Amish.. My father swore he was of German decent but I look like a Mexican to me. My maiden name was Crews... sounds mexican to me.

er

lexxwern
02 Jun 04,, 10:08
LOL .. Race is a -guy thing- :)

I won't discriminate on it's basis though.. But we just can't pretend that vdifferent races aren't there. Maybe it'ld be better if we called us as different species of humans, or is that word worse.. hehe.. who cares :P

Ironduke
02 Jun 04,, 16:46
Can I ask you, what's with the picture of Eminem?

lexxwern
02 Jun 04,, 18:19
Nuthin .. I there anything wrong with that?

Ironduke
02 Jun 04,, 18:41
Nuthin .. I there anything wrong with that?
What's the reason?

eMGee
03 Jun 04,, 00:36
If (neo-)nazi's are so "stupid", "ignorant" etc. why do they get such a high priority by the FBI and respective agencies throughout the western world?

Can't, for example, the FBI better concentrate on actual (terrorist) threats to national security, such as (fundamentalist) islam? It might just be me, but since when do "extreme-rightists" and "neo-nazi's" pose a threat to (national) seciruty?? (Surely not here in Europe!) All they do is ventilate their controversial opinion and by doing so, obviously, also ruining their own carreers...

Confed999
03 Jun 04,, 02:46
If (neo-)nazi's are so "stupid", "ignorant" etc. why do they get such a high priority by the FBI and respective agencies throughout the western world?
Because they hate people for no reasons other than what they look like, who they pray to, or who they say I love you to. The groups are often large, if supporters are counted as well as members, and organized. When you get that many prejudice dumb asses preaching hate and violence, one or more of the idiots will do something about it.

People who hate others because of what they are, and not who they are, are quite stupid and ignorant.

lexxwern
03 Jun 04,, 04:46
What's the reason?
What's the reason for having that as my avatar pic?

has to be because i wanted it to be so .. can't think of anyother reason for that as my pic.. eh

Ironduke
03 Jun 04,, 05:05
What's the reason for having that as my avatar pic?

has to be because i wanted it to be so .. can't think of anyother reason for that as my pic.. eh
Without using too graphic language, I think Eminem is a wuss and a punk. I'd wipe that smirk off his face with my fist and watch him cry like a little girl.

eMGee
03 Jun 04,, 08:07
Because they hate people for no reasons other than what they look like, who they pray to, or who they say I love you to. The groups are often large, if supporters are counted as well as members, and organized. When you get that many prejudice dumb asses preaching hate and violence, one or more of the idiots will do something about it.

People who hate others because of what they are, and not who they are, are quite stupid and ignorant.
So when a certain group "hates people", even "for no reason" ;), it automatically means they'll start "doing something about it"?? Well, experience has taught that that isn't true!

I don't know how the situation in the USA is, but here in Europe they use the definition "extreme-right groups" to eliminate their political rivals, like Pim Fortuyn here in the Netherlands (look some information up on him).

lexxwern
03 Jun 04,, 13:53
Without using too graphic language, I think Eminem is a wuss and a punk. I'd wipe that smirk off his face with my fist and watch him cry like a little girl.

Eh. Okay. I think his music is really good, like his lyrics or not, you will have to admit that he makes pretty good songs.

Ironduke
03 Jun 04,, 18:00
Eh. Okay. I think his music is really good, like his lyrics or not, you will have to admit that he makes pretty good songs.
No, I don't think he does.

eMGee
04 Jun 04,, 00:55
Eminem is a tragedy, it's a black guy captured in a white body...

We should set up a charity foundation so that we can let Eminem get some plastic surgery; a suiting appearance :biggrin:

Confed999
04 Jun 04,, 02:30
So when a certain group "hates people", even "for no reason" ;), it automatically means they'll start "doing something about it"?? Well, experience has taught that that isn't true!

I don't know how the situation in the USA is, but here in Europe they use the definition "extreme-right groups" to eliminate their political rivals, like Pim Fortuyn here in the Netherlands (look some information up on him).
If it automaticly meant they would do harm, then we would be justified to arrest them instead of investigating them. People have the right to believe anything they want to, as long as they don't do anything to hurt anyone. The only criminals are the ones who do something about it, the rest are just less than people in my world.

BTW, I know about Pim Fortuyn. ;)

Ray
04 Jun 04,, 03:45
barbie

I'm British born and lived here most of my life, although I possess dual nationality. I've also lived in Germany (Hamburg) part of my life and can speak German though the last time I did was around 4 years ago.

My father has German nationality (although Kashmiri-Pakistani by birth), and my mother is from a Persian family who settled in Lahore(and later emigrated).

My racial background is 100% Aryan, a caucasoid race, so by all definitions I am European.

.

Why are you so obssessed to prove what you are not?

It is rather reprobate (immoral) of you to disclaim your actual origin. You are a Balti from Baltisthan. Be proud of that fact, rather than trying to be what you are not - European.

It is as if you are ashamed of your father being born a Kashmiri. I draw this inference because you have written 'ALTHOUGH Kashmiri -Pakistani by birth). And You have emphaised that he is a German by nationality.
You also state that your mother is Persian (and hence from Iran) but settled in Lahore, Pakistan. In short, that she has by force of circumstances come to Pakistan which is not such a great joint. By contrast, you gleefully regale that your father has a German nationality! And that you are British born.

As eMGee said of anothe chap - a black guy in a white body. Just an illustration and not personal.

Be proud of your origin and heritage, sir.

Ray
04 Jun 04,, 03:57
Aryan,

Also, what is troubling me is that you have a racist streak. Why do you keep asking chaps about their CASTE? The whole concept of Caste is antediluvian and rather racist to say the least.

Further, if I were to say that I too was British born, does it make me any superior to anyone else out here? I personally could care less where I was born or lived, but sure would worry about what is my present status in the contemporary world.

Your mentality of trying to be an European suggests that it is a shame to be an Asian and that Asians are basic bums. I disagree. I am proud to be an Asian and I don't think I require to masquerade as an European to prove my worth. I will rather be recognised for what I am and what I am worth.

I have really got me riled.

I am reminded me of an old ditty that one used for the pseduos:

Hated by the East,
Despised by the West
You stand as monuments
of Foreign adultery in Asia.

Babagul
22 Jun 04,, 12:01
Aryan,
You have touched a very interesting topic, indeed being Aryan does not mean one is a Nazi or European. Actually Europeans have noting to do with Aryan race, it was only in 19 century that most of European heard the word Aryan from Indian and Persian texts, and adopted it as their own. One can not find in whole Europe history a single time when the word Aryan has ever been used or mention before 19 century. The comical part is the Europeans and Nazi false assumption that Aryan is blue eyed and blond hair, from whom the white supremacist of US got their assumption that Ayran is simply Anglo-Saxon. The sign in Nazi flag is Hindu religion sign which means peace(Oham).



As you can see from this map only those "Caucasian" that moved eastward toward Afghanistan, then eventually Iran and India are called Aryans.

http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/IE_map2.jpeg

platinum786
01 Jul 04,, 15:40
Nice discussion you guys got going! ;)

However i'm just gonna go and veer Off topic.......onto Wahhabi-ism, or however the f**k it's spelt.

Wahhabism is basicly a perverted version of Islam cross bred with arab culture and a pan arab political movement.

It originated during the late 17th early 18th century as a way for backward arab culture and Islam to co-exist. A lot of arab practises where unislamic and often inhumane (like the cutting of the clitterous etc), so an arab guy started preaching and twisting the words of islam to make a version which suited his cultural needs.

This spread Along Northern africa ,through the middle east upto and into post Mughal India and afghanistan. However the Asian version was known as deobandi-ism. It was altered to suit asian cutlure and bakwad traditions of the time.

For clode to 200 years these elemetns survived as fringe lunatic groups, the same way the Ahmedi's of today are considered. Then however in the early 19th centuary, just prior to world war 1, the UK (yep, guess who started it), the UK started to fan the flames of Wahhabi-ism and Deobandi-ism to suit thier needs.

In the Middle east, Wahhabi-ism was re-born as as the glue in a pan-arab politcal movement, which aim was to set arab lands "free" of Ottoman rule. n SE Asia, it was used in the west of Pakistan and the east Afghanistan as a political movement given power so they could keep the tribes of Afghanistan and Uzbekistan etc etc, out of the way of british India.

In the middle east Wahhabi-ism has taken off and has replaced regular Islam......most arabs aer wahhabi's, but they consider themselves "pure" sunni msulims.

In SE asia due to our social system, deobandi-ism was supressed but has come back with a filthy vengance, due to the extremists elemtns used to fight the soviets.

Aryan
01 Jul 04,, 16:03
You have touched a very interesting topic, indeed being Aryan does not mean one is a Nazi or European. Actually Europeans have noting to do with Aryan race, it was only in 19 century that most of European heard the word Aryan from Indian and Persian texts, and adopted it as their own. One can not find in whole Europe history a single time when the word Aryan has ever been used or mention before 19 century. The comical part is the Europeans and Nazi false assumption that Aryan is blue eyed and blond hair, from whom the white supremacist of US got their assumption that Ayran is simply Anglo-Saxon. The sign in Nazi flag is Hindu religion sign which means peace(Oham).

The Nazi concept of Aryan was certainly different to the ancient more traditional. The Aryan race is an ancient European race, that migrated towards what is now Pakistan and Iran. They later moved again to India, where they established the hindu caste sytem, preserving their race and european heritage to this day. Genetic studies today link many of the inhabitants of Pakistan, and the Brahmins of India to Europe.

As for the swastika, well its true hinduism uses something resembling a swastika, but the hindu version looks different and the arms point in the opposite direction to the Nazi one. I watched a documentary on the early life of hitler, and it showed a Church he would visit in his early days. Its emblem was a swastika, identical in shape and direction to the ones Hitler later adopted, maybe that is where he got it from.


As you can see from this map only those "Caucasian" that moved eastward toward Afghanistan, then eventually Iran and India are called Aryans.

http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/IE_map2.jpeg[/QUOTE]
Nice map, do you own copyrights to it? I could do with a picture like this.

Aryan
01 Jul 04,, 16:04
Nice discussion you guys got going! ;)
For clode to 200 years these elemetns survived as fringe lunatic groups, the same way the Ahmedi's of today are considered. Then however in the early 19th centuary, just prior to world war 1, the UK (yep, guess who started it), the UK started to fan the flames of Wahhabi-ism and Deobandi-ism to suit thier needs.


Whats wrong with Ahmadis?

Ray
01 Jul 04,, 16:46
Platinum, how did the Wahabism and Deobandism? Since this is an intersting line of argument, request amplification, please.

The Ahmedis are not taken to be Moslems?

Thanks.

Jay
01 Jul 04,, 17:33
I think he's trying to say that Wahabism and deobandism were sidelined in early days and were not mainstream sects like the present day Ahmedias. But British popularized both of em for their imperialistic designs.

platinum786
01 Jul 04,, 19:06
Aryan bro.......i don't understand why peole find this difficult to comprehend.

When jesus apeared and said he was the Messaih, people who where jews became Christan, not Jew++, now if some other guy.....said he was the next messiah......gods nephew or something......and people joined up with him, would they be christian or "other"?

Why is it acceptable for jews not to accept Christians and muslims as jews because we believe in another messiah, yet if some guy out of the blue who was a muslim starts to claim he is a prophet and people beleive him, why should muslims say......"yeah alright, your muslim too"...when quite clearly his existance is quite contradictory to Islam!! The prophet Muhammed was the last prophet of Allah/god/Misc.....basic foundation of islam, why should we accept any others as muslim!!

If i claimed to be a new hindu god.....i would no longer be hindu......even though i'm not hindu i'm muslim......if i calimed to be a 13th guru.....i would be contadicting teachings of sikhism, and my followers would not be sikhs.....

so why are Ahmedi's muslim? They are not! They are Ahmedi.

Ja, hit the nail on the head. Both Deobandi-sim and Wahhabi-ism where alterations and close to lies, of isalmic teachings and literature, created to suit backward cultural desires of certain people. They where insignificant cults. The british used them to gain thier own purpose (God bless the Queens policy makers), and they have been strengthened when thier extremisit mind set was expolite to use them as test dummies for Russian ammunition in Afghanistan during the 80's.

Red left the playground, Sam forgot to put away the toys......today they have legs and go around killing people and forcing stuff upon us.

Aryan
02 Jul 04,, 14:30
When jesus apeared and said he was the Messaih, people who where jews became Christan, not Jew++, now if some other guy.....said he was the next messiah......gods nephew or something......and people joined up with him, would they be christian or "other"?

First, christianity and islam currently have two very different schools of thought; Christianity and christians are more developed in terms of tolerance than islam and muslims presently are. If a group of people believed in the bible, church, the lord, and the concept of the trinity, the resurrection as well as the second coming, I'm sure orthodox christians would be prepared to overlook any other differences. Your second mistake is to suggest the father of ahmadiyyat, Ghulam Mirza Ahmad, is claiming himself to be an equal of Mohammed. I'm not scholar of islam, but ahmadiyya websites I've been to, and ahmadis I have met seem to make a distinction.


Why is it acceptable for jews not to accept Christians and muslims as jews because we believe in another messiah, yet if some guy out of the blue who was a muslim starts to claim he is a prophet and people beleive him, why should muslims say......"yeah alright, your muslim too"...when quite clearly his existance is quite contradictory to Islam!! The prophet Muhammed was the last prophet of Allah/god/Misc.....basic foundation of islam, why should we accept any others as muslim!!

See the problem is, 99% of anti-Ahmadi material is from wahabbi jihadi type websites, the same people who create anti-shia lies and pretty soon, anti any sect other than their own. And a lot of the information they use are pure fabricated lies, like the claim Ghulam Mirza is a prophet. Wahabbi sites discussing Ahmadis is like a Christian fundamentalist site discussing Islam in general.


The Holy Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), foretold the coming of a divine reformer who would perform a revival of Islam, bring the faith back to the principles of Quran and Sunnah, and will bring together other religions into the fold of Islam. He would do so with peaceful exhortation, and God would show great heavenly signs for him. That person has been given two names: Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) and Imam Mahdi or the Guided Imam (peace be upon him).

That divine reformer has arrived. His name is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (on whom be peace) and he laid the foundation of a new community in Islam in 1889, which he named as the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/amso/


I got banned from that jihadi pakmil.co.nr website, not for supporting Ahmadi ideology or anything of the sort, but just saying physically attacking them was wrong. I'm sure if I went to half of these islamic forums, the same would happen to me. The truth is islam generally is an intolerant religion right now, not as much to people of different religions, but non practicing muslims. Banning alcohol, forbidding eating publically during ramazan and the whole hudood ordinance are good examples of this. If the muslim world wants to progress, they need to take a leaf out of the tolerance christian western nations have.

Jay
02 Jul 04,, 17:31
If i claimed to be a new hindu god.....i would no longer be hindu......
If you can convince people, then you'll be another re-incarnation of the trimurtis. So if any one follows you, they are still hindus.


if i calimed to be a 13th guru.....i would be contadicting teachings of sikhism, and my followers would not be sikhs.....
Again they had 12 gurus in the past. People follwowed each one of them, and they were called Sikhs. They werent teaching or preaching anything radical, most prolly the teachings are subset to grand sahib.

Also whats the significance of Caliphites in the muslim world?

Ray
02 Jul 04,, 19:20
Platinum,

You are absolutely precious.

Your idea about Christianity, Hindus, Sikhs etc are unqiue and wonderfully refreshing and novel, apart from being totally ethereal for normal individuals to fathom its great depths of wisdom.

At the same time, I commend Aryan for his rather incisive post, though I am sure it will not be palatable to Moslems.

My General, who was a devout Moslem, would play 18 holes game of golf with me during the holy month of fasting and would not drink water or swallow his spit. He would not serve alcohol in his house, but on rare occasions would allow alcohol to be served on the lawns. He would serve meat (but hallal) and none bothered since Christians and Hindus were not concerned of such archaic taboos. Not once did anyone feel uncomfortable. The General was well liked and he is doing well and he still remains a devout Moslem. His theory was that religion is a personal matter which is absolutely correct.

The Indian Moslem Personal Board is now deciding if the three times stating 'talaq' is adequate to divorce one's wife. Therefore there is light beyond the tunnel. Notwithstanding my difference with Aryan, he is on the right track. But will he suceed when precious metals rule the roost?

platinum786
02 Jul 04,, 19:53
The Indian Moslem Personal Board is now deciding if the three times stating 'talaq' is adequate to divorce one's wife. Therefore there is light beyond the tunnel. Notwithstanding my difference with Aryan, he is on the right track. But will he suceed when precious metals rule the roost?

The 3 times tallaq thing is rubbish, you are not allowed to divorce a wife like that, i know many family friend etc have got divorced there is a precedure.

First, you must say you want a divorce, then a group of elders (friends/relatives), must attempt to resolve your differences. If that is not possible, then of ocurse you must in front of people, declare 3 times to your partner than you want to divorce them. After divorcing them you must wait 40 days to establish wether the woman is pergnant. If she is you are entitled to pay for the upkeep of the child until they are of working age. Same for any children you already have.
The same way a wife is entitled to divorce a husband.

This 3 times tallaq business only happens in our 3rd world society where the powerful oppress the poor.


Ayran, i saw that thread, pakmil is full of fundo mullahs.....forget them, let them stay in thier own world, they are the caste off's of PDF. Apart from Tallgeese, chursy and Hellrasier.

Generally Ahmedi's claim thier guy to be a prophet, muslims beleive muhhammed was the last prophet, (sikhs beleive the holy book Guru granth Sahib i think it's called is the last guru), these ppl claim this guy as another prophet of Allah, in Islam thatis impossible. That makes them "non-muslim", coz they don't follow or accept a basic pillar of Islam. Does that permit persecuting them, of course not, they have the same rights any other human being has.


Let me tell you all something about Islam, Islam and any other religion for that matter, does not defy humanity and logic, if what you consider religion or are told is religion defies logic or humanity, it isn't religion.

Ray
09 Jul 04,, 03:52
Indeed all religions must follow logic and humanity.

I am sure quite a few Moslems are logical and humane.

However, what has got folks (no Moslems) worried is that there is no strong and spontaneous cognisable protest by the Moslem masses against the lunatic fringe of Islam i.e. the terrorists and Mullahs.

Whenever there is a 'slight' against Islam, the Mullahs issue strong fatwas ( a very strong and transparent weapon) including unilateral declaration of death on the perpetuator of the 'slight'. However, in the case of the lunatic fringe of Islam, there is pious platitudes and social justification being offered alone i.e. how folks are taking to arms and taking law into their own hands because Islam is being alienated etc etc.

Since the Mullahs seem to rule the roost and not the govts, why can't they issue a fatwa and ask all to fight this lunatic fringe. Theier silence is what makes other religious denominations uncomfortable since otherwise these blokes the Mullahs are in the forefront of condemnation and the sole arbiter of Islamic interpretation.

How come the Mullahs instead of condemning this evil killing by terrorists which educated Moslem say is UNISLAMIC is being lauded as 'jihad'. Surely, since all know that the Moslems follow their Mullahs, all the stuff said by the educated and those on boards like this about terrorism being unIslamic does not wash or give confidence to non Moslems.

This disconnect between the majority of Moslems and the educated Moslem leaves others in a quandry and with the daily tote rising like a skyrocket none believe a word being said that the terrorists are doing unislamic things and all believe that the terrorists are bringing home the Islamic bacon!

Aryan
10 Jul 04,, 17:20
Indeed all religions must follow logic and humanity.

I am sure quite a few Moslems are logical and humane.

However, what has got folks (no Moslems) worried is that there is no strong and spontaneous cognisable protest by the Moslem masses against the lunatic fringe of Islam i.e. the terrorists and Mullahs.

Whenever there is a 'slight' against Islam, the Mullahs issue strong fatwas ( a very strong and transparent weapon) including unilateral declaration of death on the perpetuator of the 'slight'. However, in the case of the lunatic fringe of Islam, there is pious platitudes and social justification being offered alone i.e. how folks are taking to arms and taking law into their own hands because Islam is being alienated etc etc.

Since the Mullahs seem to rule the roost and not the govts, why can't they issue a fatwa and ask all to fight this lunatic fringe. Theier silence is what makes other religious denominations uncomfortable since otherwise these blokes the Mullahs are in the forefront of condemnation and the sole arbiter of Islamic interpretation.

How come the Mullahs instead of condemning this evil killing by terrorists which educated Moslem say is UNISLAMIC is being lauded as 'jihad'. Surely, since all know that the Moslems follow their Mullahs, all the stuff said by the educated and those on boards like this about terrorism being unIslamic does not wash or give confidence to non Moslems.

This disconnect between the majority of Moslems and the educated Moslem leaves others in a quandry and with the daily tote rising like a skyrocket none believe a word being said that the terrorists are doing unislamic things and all believe that the terrorists are bringing home the Islamic bacon!

I agree, but islam isn't the only fanatical religion around. Look at the Hindu Tamils in Sri Lanka and the VHP and RSS in India (I'm not going to go into specific activities but I hope you'll agree Hindu extremists do exist). The extremist Christian groups in Africa, and well, the extremist jewish groups in Israel.

The only peaceful religions or religious groups that come to mind are Buddhism, Parsis and Bahaiism. All the others are in the same boat and can't call any of the others terrorist.

hammer
10 Aug 05,, 16:16
I agree, but islam isn't the only fanatical religion around. Look at the Hindu Tamils in Sri Lanka...

Its the racist and linguistic differences that caused the war in Srilanka, not religion.The LTTE has Christians,Hindus and muslims among its cadres.Infact one of their fighting units is called 'Charles Anthony Bridage'.

Samudra
10 Aug 05,, 16:25
Buddhism

Its had its fair share in Lanka.

Ray
10 Aug 05,, 16:55
I agree, but islam isn't the only fanatical religion around. Look at the Hindu Tamils in Sri Lanka and the VHP and RSS in India (I'm not going to go into specific activities but I hope you'll agree Hindu extremists do exist). The extremist Christian groups in Africa, and well, the extremist jewish groups in Israel.

The only peaceful religions or religious groups that come to mind are Buddhism, Parsis and Bahaiism. All the others are in the same boat and can't call any of the others terrorist.


The only difference is that the extremists in other religions are not exporting it and holding the world at ransom.