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headlessbarbie
10 May 04,, 07:26
http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/whatisterrorism/stages/index.html

I would like to have a disscussion about propaganda and terrorism but first check out this site it is a great resource for info on terrorism. Check out the 4 stages of terrorism.

What I have come to understand after reading up on terrorism is that long before you see violence like 9/11 the citizens of the target country will be subject to propaganda. Propaganda is taylored to every group with in that society...

Think about what that means. Long before 9/11 propagandist began spoonfeeding us small doses of poisin preparing us to turn against our own government. To demoralizes us... to even radicalize certain segments of our population. Considering the fact that these guys are masters of psychology and human behavior, they have years of training and a long history of success (just look at Germany and the Soviet Union) we have to consider the possibility that we have swallowed some lies ourselves
Let me give you an example:
I have been studying this for a while and I think this guy is a propagandist directing his propaganda to the right.http://www.infowars.com/ I believe Noam Chompsky is a leftist propagandist but they both have the same agenda.... the evetual overthrow of the American government. Think about for a while.


I really would love to have some input on this subject from someone who has a little knowledge or is willing to approach this with an open mind.

The first knee jerk response is to defend oneself and jump into deep denial... but it only logical to assume that some of the crap we have believed is lies mixed with truth or missinformation.

another great resource on propaganda is an old encylopidia britanica.. make sure it is older than the 60's though.
eryan

Confed999
11 May 04,, 01:43
Everything written, or said is propaganda, everyone has an agenda, even if they won't admit it.

headlessbarbie
12 May 04,, 00:39
No. There is information for the purpose of educating and informing. Some people have a sincer motive to educate. Not all information is bs. Propaganda is for the purpose of changing and forming oppinons in others with out their consent. to controll others ideas and actions... to dominate... to control their minds. Jim Jones was not an educator... Dr. Pat Briney is an educator. Big hudge difference.

Your comment is disterbing. I don't doubt you are sincere but it doesn't seem to occure to you that there is a difference between legitament education and brainwashing. wow

http://www.propagandacritic.com/

read study learn educate yourself.... true every buyer must beware but not everybody is a controll freak with an agenda and not every piece of information is lies mixed with truth.

the key to resisting brainwashing and false information is critical thinking and critical reading...
http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/longview/ctac/definitions.htm

Critical readers are:
willing to spend time reflecting on the ideas presented in their reading assignments
able to evaluate and solve problems while reading rather than merely compile a set of facts to be memorized
logical thinkers
diligent in seeking out the truth
eager to express their thoughts on a topic
seekers of alternative views on a topic
open to new ideas that may not necessarily agree with their previous thought on a topic
able to base their judgments on ideas and evidence
able to recognize errors in thought and persuasion as well as to recognize good arguments
willing to take a critical stance on issues
able to ask penetrating and thought-provoking questions to evaluate ideas
in touch with their personal thoughts and ideas about a topic
willing to reassess their views when new or discordant evidence is introduced and evaluated
able to identify arguments and issues
able to see connections between topics and use knowledge from other disciplines to enhance their reading and learning experiences

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attributes of a critical thinker:
asks pertinent questions
assesses statements and arguments
is able to admit a lack of understanding or information
has a sense of curiosity
is interested in finding new solutions
is able to clearly define a set of criteria for analyzing ideas
is willing to examine beliefs, assumptions, and opinions and weigh them against facts
listens carefully to others and is able to give feedback
sees that critical thinking is a lifelong process of self-assessment
suspends judgment until all facts have been gathered and considered
looks for evidence to support assumption and beliefs
is able to adjust opinions when new facts are found
looks for proof
examines problems closely
is able to reject information that is incorrect or irrelevant

eryan

Confed999
12 May 04,, 01:41
No. There is information for the purpose of educating and informing. Some people have a sincer motive to educate.
Propaganda:
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
Seems that covers everything written or said. Maybe it's just me.

Not all information is bs.
No it isn't, but propaganda isn't necessarily BS either.

Dr. Pat Briney
Has an opinion too, trust me. Does he show all perceptions of reality? My side, your side and the truth?

I don't doubt you are sincere but it doesn't seem to occure to you that there is a difference between legitament education and brainwashing. wow
I have no idea where that came from.

not everybody is a controll freak with an agenda
Not everybody is a control freak, but everyone has an opinion and an agenda. I have never ever met anyone who didn't.

not every piece of information is lies mixed with truth.
Information is information, but it's all reported by by people from their point of view. The best way I've found to come close to truth is to find the same info from several viewpoints and average them.

the key to resisting brainwashing and false information is critical thinking and critical reading...
I just figure everything is false, until I see proof for myself.

headlessbarbie
12 May 04,, 03:04
Propaganda:
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
Seems that covers everything written or said. Maybe it's just me.

[QUOTE]No it isn't, but propaganda isn't necessarily BS either.

Oh of course you are correct. I suppose I should clearly define what I am talking about. I am talking about subversive propaganda that is intended to brainwash an entire population for the purpose of acheiving political goals that could not otherwise be accomplished if the population where not being manipulated and deceived.. for example: propaganda that decieves and entire population to pleadge unquestioning allegence to a tyrianical dictator.. ie Stalin in communist russia. Many of the people who where being persecuted imprissioned and sentenced to death at Stalins orders would write Stalin himself to alert him to the crimes they believed was being committed with out his knowledge while he was giving direct orders for their execution, the russians where brainwashed and being controlled by a handful of people through the power of brainwashing propaganda fear and terrorism. It was brainwashing propaganda that caused Iraqis to embrace Sadam and Germans to complacently stand by and allow their government to be overthrown by the Brown Shirts.


Has an opinion too, trust me. Does he show all perceptions of reality? My side, your side and the truth?

I can honestly say YES. The Dr. is my childrens science teacher and when he teaches on the subject of evolution for example he thoroughly educates the children on both sides of the subject. My children who have completed his classes know more about evolution than most college students who unquestionly believe that evolution is fact. He also teaches both kinds of phlosophy that has influenced western culture... did you know there was more than greek philosophy shaping our culture



I have no idea where that came from.

My perception of what you are saying is that you do not recognize the differences in legitament education and indoctrinenation... I will have to post the difference of indoctrination and education for you at the end of the post

Not everybody is a control freak, but everyone has an opinion and an agenda. I have never ever met anyone who didn't.


Information is information, but it's all reported by by people from their point of view. quite right and a lagit teacher will make that point perfectly clear.

The best way I've found to come close to truth is to find the same info from several viewpoints and average them.

good for you! but are you sure? I don't take everyone at there word either so allow me to challenge you on this one. Lets point to very controversial subject like ... evolution and creation. do you have a strong oppinion on this subject and have you really examined both sides? another subject. I will assume you are an american conservative... have you ever read a book written by a socialist about socialism? Have you ever read Mein Kaump or do you just believe facist and Nazies are evil without question.


I just figure everything is false, until I see proof for myself.

Once again are you sure... do you believe homosexual unions are bad or good? have you gone to the opposistion first hand to see what their side is on this issue?

My whole point is that we are under some pretty effective brainwashing influences in our country and I hope to find someone who knows a little about brainwashing or is willing to educate themselves on the matter so that we can kick around some ideas together. I asked for open minds. No disrespect intended but you seem to be jerking your knee. I dont intend to offend you but to challenge you. Be honest with your self before you answer ( I am sure you usually are otherwise you would be a flaming socialist/atheist ect.) and think about what I am saying before you respond. I don't intend to sound condensending... I had to put my self through a pretty tough intellectually honesty check on many issues once I started to think about these things and I am the first to admitt I was believeing with out questioning on a few pet topics... ie religion! homosexuality! liberals! I had to admitt I was wrong about my fellow liberal citizens in many ways... some of my religous notions where just rediculous and that was hard to admitt. I was right on the money about homosexuals though!
all I am trying to say is that we are being brainwashed in certain areas and I really want to find someone to talk to about it and toss around some theories I have.
Yes everybody has an agenda and is trying to persuade you in their direction but all directions are not equal and some are bad and some are good. Few people are honest but most are not and the bad ones will not come with signs that say "Warning you are on the path to insanity and loss of freedom and I am trying to use you as a pawn in my revolution to overthrow your government. (think of the terrorist they are somebodys pawn! i wonder whos? I have a theory!) Marx termed liberals as usefull idiots... blacks in inner citys are being used as "agents of change"....conservative americans are being lured into a extream facist movement that is supposedly "christian"(I am not refering to Bush) sometimes the most "enlightend" of us seem to be the most exploited and if we think there isn't a potential for us to be used as pawns... then we are in the greatest danger!
I guess I have said enough. I hope I clarified any missunderstanding I created on my part.

eryan...... we have to make sure we are always on the right side of the issue... and with out careful and honest self scrutiny we will find ourselves defending evil just like the Germans or todays Muslims and liberals.

headlessbarbie
12 May 04,, 03:46
Is there anybody you agree with 100%? Rush Limbaugh? Your preacher? Your professor? Your teacher? Your best friend? If you can say "dito Rush I agree with you 100%.. then Rush is controlling your thinking! (once again.. I am just going on the assumption that you are a conservative American that likes Rush.)



Indoctination and education...




Indoctrination (Propaganda) Education

Indoctrination>
Uses generalizations, "allness" statements: Lacks specific references and data.
Education> Uses qualifiers: Statements supported with specific references and data.

Indoctrination>
One sided: Different or opposing views are either ignored, misrepresented, underrepresented, or denigrated.
Education>
Circumspect and multifaceted: Issues examined from many points of view. Opposition fairly represented.

Indoctrination>
Card stacking: Data carefully selected to present only the best or worst possible case. Language used to conceal.
Education>
Balanced: Presents representative samples from a wide range of available data on the subject. Language used to reveal.

Indoctrination>
Misleading use of statistics.
Education>
Statistical references qualified with respect to size, duration, criteria, controls source, and subsidizer.

Indoctrination>
Lumpism: Ignores distinctions and subtle differences. Lumps superficially similar elements together. Reasons by analogy.
Education>
Discrimination: Points out differences and subtle distinctions. Uses analogies carefully, pointing out differences and nonapplicability.

Indoctrination>
False dilemma (either/or): There are only two solutions to the problem or two ways of viewing the issue -- the "right way" (the writer or speaker's way) and the "wrong way" (any other way).
Education>
Alternatives: There are many ways of solving a problem or viewing an issue.

Indoctrination>
Appeals to authority: Statements by selected authority figures used to clinch an argument. "Only the 'expert' knows."
Education>
Appeals to reason: Statements by authority figures used to stimulate thought and discussion. "Experts" seldom agree.

Indoctrination>
Appeals to consensus (bandwagon): "Everybody's doing it" so it must be right.
Education>
Appeals to fact and logic: Supports arguments with impartially selected data and logic.

Indoctrination>
Appeals to emotions and automatic responses: Uses words and pictures with strong emotional connotations.
Education>
Appeals to people's capacity for thoughtful, reasoned responses: Uses emotionally neutral words and illustrations.

Labeling: Uses labels and derogatory terms to describe proponents of opposing viewpoint.
Education>
Avoids labels and derogatory language. Addresses the argument, not the people supporting a particular viewpoint.

Indoctrination>
Ignores assumptions and built-in biases.
Education>
Explores assumptions and built-in biases.

Indoctrination>
Language usage promotes lack of awareness.
Education>
Language usage promotes greater awareness

THOUGHT REFORM (this is a more accurate term than "brainwashing"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Brainwashing

http://www.dike.de/SINUSsekteninfo/lec/psycho/tech.html

http://www.rickross.com/

Confed999
12 May 04,, 04:32
I can honestly say YES. The Dr. is my childrens science teacher and when he teaches on the subject of evolution for example he thoroughly educates the children on both sides of the subject.
Both sides? You mean Creationism vs. Evolutionism? Pure religon vs. pure science? What does he teach of Deists, and others that marry belief in God with science? Ones that see evolution as proof of God's existance?

did you know there was more than greek philosophy shaping our culture
As an American dozens of cultures, each with their own philosophy(s), all affecting life as I know it. BTW, I have my own philosophy on a great many subjects and I affect the world around me each day.

so allow me to challenge you on this one. Lets point to very controversial subject like ... evolution and creation. do you have a strong oppinion on this subject and have you really examined both sides?
Yes. I've actually examined dozens of sides to that question. :)

I will assume you are an american conservative... have you ever read a book written by a socialist about socialism?
Yes! Every system has it's good points and bad points, trick is figuring out how to get the good without the bad.

Have you ever read Mein Kaump or do you just believe facist and Nazies are evil without question.
Never read it. Nobody is evil without question, except the ones that insist they are evil. Allways give those the benifit of the doubt.

do you believe homosexual unions are bad or good? have you gone to the opposistion first hand to see what their side is on this issue?
Of all the homosexuals I know, seven, six are in commited long term relationships and one just can't seem to find a guy. It's too bad, he's a nice fella. I'm an American, first and foremost, all men are created equal, everything else is secondary. As to the opposition, my parents live in a place, that until recently, nobody but straight whites were allowed after dark. Really. My family trained me well to see that racism and general descrimination is wrong.


No disrespect intended but you seem to be jerking your knee.
No disrespect taken, I'm simply stating my opinion. That's my agenda, to toss in my 2 cents whenever I can make it apply. :)

Confed999
12 May 04,, 04:38
Is there anybody you agree with 100%? Rush Limbaugh? Your preacher? Your professor? Your teacher? Your best friend? If you can say "dito Rush I agree with you 100%.. then Rush is controlling your thinking!
I really don't listen to Rush much. It seems he is a Republican first, I am not. But, even though I don't know him I can say with 100% accuracy that there are things he believes that match 100% with what I believe. Since I don't listen to his show, he can't be controling my thinking just because I have similar beliefs. I bet you have beliefs that I agree with 100%, and I'm sure you have beliefs that I refute 100%, same with Rush or anyone else.

headlessbarbie
12 May 04,, 06:16
[
=Confed999]Both sides? You mean Creationism vs. Evolutionism? Pure religon vs. pure science? What does he teach of Deists, and others that marry belief in God with science? Ones that see evolution as proof of God's existance?

I can see by your response that you haven't examined both sides.... creationism isn't about religion it is about a scientific theory based on the presumption that life came about by design and from an eternal intellegent being, evolution is a scientific theory that presums that energy is eternal and life came obout by chance not design...

Both sides build their theories on the same evidence but reach different conclusions based upon the presumption of design or chance.

Only the creationist side will tell you that it is all theory and no body knows for certain because life came into being with out an eye whitness and neither theory can be tested and observed in the lab..some evolutionist say that evolution is fact and others say they are no closer to finding evidence of evolution than they where at the time Darwins ideas where first taken seriously by some in the scientific comunity. It is interesting though evolutionist are busy trying to create life in the lab to prove evolution... but amazingly they fail to realize if the do succeed in createing life in the lab they used their own intellegence to create life and life will have come from an intellegent creator not by chance at all! For evolution to be proven in the lab, energy and matter would have to appear on the petry dish by chance all on its own.
And of course he teaches on the deist theory. duh ;) He teaches all views on this subject and has the students debate him.. he will debate the evolutionist side and have the student debate the creationist side. He always wins. So, is the Dr. an evolutionist or a creationist? I will tell you this. When he started college he was a evolutionist and an atheist. As he learned more about evolution the more troubled he became about the theory all together. Because he didn't at first accept it with out question he had to take a special course. His professor told him that he (Dr. Briney) knew more about evolution than any student he had taught before. Dr. Briney has an interesting perspective on intellegent design and the DNA code.

The bottom line is that his student get the whole picture and then are left to make up their own minds.


As an American dozens of cultures, each with their own philosophy(s), all affecting life as I know it. BTW, I have my own philosophy on a great many subjects and I affect the world around me each day.


No sweety what I am refering to here is the fact that there are two poles of influence that have shaped western thought.

One is Biblical and the other is Humanist... and the Catholic Church during it reign did not adhear to a purely biblical world view. It was a mixture of Biblical thought and pagan, humanist and mystical... very eclectic. There has never been a time when there was a society based purely on a Biblical world view... But the period time preceding the American Revolution was strongly influenced by the Reformation... And the American culture was strongly effected by a Biblical and some Humanist perspective. The intellectuals in Northern Europe during the age of enlightenment studied the classics and Biblical phylosophy. In contrast Southern Europe threw out the Bible all together and studied humanistic philosophy and during the period of time preceding and during the French revolution was a driven by an almost pure Humanistic world view, so was the Boshevic revolution and the rise of Nazism in Germany. copece?


Yes! Every system has it's good points and bad points, trick is figuring out how to get the good without the bad.

Conservatives want to reform the system... todays socialist and other leftys are wanting to completely revamp and overthrow they system. gradually if necessary.

Ne
ver read it. Nobody is evil without question, except the ones that insist they are evil. Allways give those the benifit of the doubt.

Who claimes to be evil?


Of all the homosexuals I know, seven, six are in commited long term relationships and one just can't seem to find a guy. It's too bad, he's a nice fella. I'm an American, first and foremost, all men are created equal,

So you do believe man kind was created? The question is not weather or not homosexuals are equal in human worth and before the law... the question is: is the act of having sex with a person of the same sex a perversion or healthy and natural. Is homosexual unions moral or detrimental to society? Why is there even a debate? Nobody debates hetrosexual sex, just the context in which it is morally acceptable to engage in hetrosexual sex.

No disrespect taken, I'm simply stating my opinion. That's my agenda, to toss in my 2 cents whenever I can make it apply. :)[/QUOTE]

Okay good! Now maybe you can examine the basis of your oppinions on propaganda in this country... identify what is and isn't proganda and examine some of the underlying motives of propagandist that propagate...a NWO conspiracy for example. Is there really a NWO conspiracy... and even more inportant what propaganda is coming from the terrorist themselves and how far do you think that are going to get in their ATTEMP TO OVERTROGH OUR GOVERNMENT! It is only the most politically important issue of our day.... OUR GOVERNMENT IS BEING TARGETED FOR DELIBERATE DISTRUCTION SO THAT ANOTHER GOVERNMENT CAN BE ESTABLISHED AND WE CAN ALL FALL UNDER THE CONTROLL OF THOSE WHO USE TACTICS LIKE BUTCHERING OUR YOUNG MEN AND RAPE OUR WOMEN AND YOUNG GIRLS... WHO CHOP OUR MILITARY PERSONELL UP IN LITTLE PIECES AND HANG THEM FROM BRIDGES.. SOMEBODY IN THIS WORLD WANTS TO CONTROLL US OUR RESOURCES AND OUR INSTITUTION OUR COURTS OUR JAILS our LIVES... HELLO? isn't this a little bit disterbing to anybody but me? Liberals and those on the right are falling prey to this propaganda.... the u.n. is obviously in cahoots with who ever this invisable enemy is.. Who do you think is trying to overtrough our Government? The Arabs? I think not.. the muslims and their gready yet week kings and shieks and dictators are just pawns of another government. What government? This isn't just a religous movement it is a deliberate attempt to totally reorganize the American government to be.... what? who will lead? Somebody has declaired war on America and it isn't the muslims. Like I said they are just pawns... but who's pawns? At least this is how it looks to me. I want to find someone to discuss this with. are you up to it?

eryan

Officer of Engineers
12 May 04,, 06:23
Headlessbarbie,

I am going to turn your post into jibberish. Both creatism and evolution are one and the same. Those of us who tried to stay in quantum mechanics (vs those who truly mastered it) got a very strong glimsp at the Hand of God.

Confed999
12 May 04,, 07:08
headlessbarbie,

You mind letting me in on your thoughts concerning homosexuality, or are you leaving us in suspense?

Trooth
12 May 04,, 20:28
Propaganda takes many forms, some overt (i.e. wartime) some subtle (peacetime politicans) and some societal (i.e racial / religious / sexuality etc etc)

To some extent everything typed, as Confed said, is propaganda. People always bias (even if they don't know it) statements they make.

9/11 has been swimming with propaganda from the first hours after the planes struck. This propaganda has come from all sides.

In terms of motives, pick one. They can all be accounted for in the current mess. Just as they could in previous ones, and will be in subsequent issues.

Aryan
12 May 04,, 21:05
Propaganda takes many forms, some overt (i.e. wartime) some subtle (peacetime politicans) and some societal (i.e racial / religious / sexuality etc etc)

To some extent everything typed, as Confed said, is propaganda. People always bias (even if they don't know it) statements they make.

9/11 has been swimming with propaganda from the first hours after the planes struck. This propaganda has come from all sides.

In terms of motives, pick one. They can all be accounted for in the current mess. Just as they could in previous ones, and will be in subsequent issues.

I agree with your general argument, but do make a distinction between opinion and propaganda. It's okay for a journalist (for instance) to believe whatever they wish to believe, and even write articles subjectively as long as they make it clear that it is their opinion. What is definitely propaganda is when a news item is reported subjectively, devices such as emotive language is used to support or further a particular viewpoint in readers. Use of widespread one-sided coverage is another example of this, and a good example of both of these, are the al-queida promo videos they hand out to news stations. They usually contain footage of dead bodies, claiming to be killed by x y and z, and referring to x y and z as infidels who need erradicating by grace of God and there will be a reward in doing so etc etc...

Trooth
12 May 04,, 21:33
Indeed. I guess true propaganda is portraying opinion, myth or rumour as fact.

Good propaganda takes the bad feelings about something and crystalises them with "facts" and "reason" and a belief that not only were your feeling's correct, but a great many people think like you. Those that don't are in some way in league wiith each other.

In some ways its like the old expression "you can't cheat an honest man". You have to want to believe, for propaganda to work. It tells you what, perhaps secretly, you wanted to hear.

Confed999
14 May 04,, 04:51
headlessbarbie,

You mind letting me in on your thoughts concerning homosexuality, or are you leaving us in suspense?
Don't want to answer?

headlessbarbie
14 May 04,, 18:29
Don't want to answer?

Oh sorry... I wasn't ignoring you.

in short:

I believe homosexuality is harmful to the individual and to society in general..just like adultry.

I think homosexuals should be treated with dignity... they are human beings.

er

Jay
14 May 04,, 19:34
I believe homosexuality is harmful to the individual and to society in general..just like adultry.

how??

Confed999
15 May 04,, 00:00
how??
Yes, do tell. I have to hear about how my friends have damaged society. I know a couple of ladies that have been together for over 30 years. One is an emergency room doctor, because "that's where the most people need help". Her girl friend is an artist, a painter and a poet. How about a couple of guys, together for nearly 20 years. One is a decorated police officer, his boy friend manages low rent housing for the poor. These people haven't harmed society, they save it... everyday.

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 08:42
Yes, do tell. I have to hear about how my friends have damaged society. I know a couple of ladies that have been together for over 30 years. One is an emergency room doctor, because "that's where the most people need help". Her girl friend is an artist, a painter and a poet. How about a couple of guys, together for nearly 20 years. One is a decorated police officer, his boy friend manages low rent housing for the poor. These people haven't harmed society, they save it... everyday.

Good for them. There is no reason to discuss this any further. Somebody asked I replied. There is no point hashing this out. I have my oppinion you have yours..... I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.





er

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 08:50
how??

I should have told you.. I will state my oppinion but that is all.
I really don't care to disscuss this any futher. There are enough people cooked up over the issue and I don't feel like justifing my oppinion on this matter. But there are lots of other people out there who feel the same way and will be more than happy to disscuss this with you......

er

Trooth
15 May 04,, 09:59
I should have told you.. I will state my oppinion but that is all.
I really don't care to disscuss this any futher. There are enough people cooked up over the issue and I don't feel like justifing my oppinion on this matter. But there are lots of other people out there who feel the same way and will be more than happy to disscuss this with you......

er

You have an interesting take on a discussion forum! Can we envisage a future of statements of "facts" that are not to be disputed?

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 11:20
You have an interesting take on a discussion forum! Can we envisage a future of statements of "facts" that are not to be disputed?

I didn't say it was fact, I said it was my oppinion. further more i said you are welcomed to dissagree. let it go and go bate someone else. i don't like talking about this subject and i am not going to be bated or bullied into it. you clearly have a problem with people who differ with you on this subject how tollerant of you. i don't care if you agree with me or not... now get over it and move on.

end of discussion

er

Trooth
15 May 04,, 12:01
I agree it is only an opinion, hence the "fact" being in quotes.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.

I am not baiting anyone. I just find it an odd principle to state something on a discussion forum, then reply and state that you don't wisht o discuss it. Fine, don't.

However, it isn't for you to say "end of discussion" :)

Confed999
15 May 04,, 16:29
Good for them.
No, good for you. If you've ever been to a hospital or called the police for help, you may just owe one to the homosexuals you claim are damaging society.

I don't feel like justifing my oppinion on this matter.
Why? You afraid you're prejudice can't handle outside scrutiny? I'm proud of my opinions and I don't hesitate to express them because I know in my heart that they are good and just. If you don't feel the same way it may be some time for reflection on your part. The sad part is you claim to be a parent, do you teach your prejudice to your children as well? Why stop with gays? What about blacks, "they're all criminals"? What about the Irish, "they're all drunks"? What about the latinos, "they took our jobs"? Etc... Etc... Etc...

i am not going to be bated or bullied into it.
Then you shouldn't have brought it up. You certainly screwed up when you got into this with me, someone who believes in, and is proud of, the American ideal. Do not be fooled by the implications of my nickname for I have been taught and trained, ever since I can remember, to stand against people like you, and I will do so as long as I have breath.

how tollerant of you.
You dare speak to me of tolerance? I asked how the four people I mentioned were damaging society, I hadn't even started on you yet.

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 21:15
for I have been taught and trained, ever since I can remember, to stand against people like you, and I will do so as long as I have breath.

no! really!.... what shock, well I have on my own merit chose to do my own thinking by my own self.

you prove me right.... you aren't angry because of the merit or lack there of that I base my opinion on..... you like your other narrow minded intollerant bigoted comrods are simply pissed because, gasp! oh my gosh!... some body dared to dissagreed with your little narrow miopic view of the world.

Yours is a tyriancial view and I have no doubt you will carry this to its logical end. I am not scared of you or lil friends, I am not impressed with you and you view of "tollerance" in fact it makes me giggle to hear you rant about the intollerance of other.... I will just continue to point and laugh at those who are so mindless that they sell themselves over to the first cause that stokes their ego and excuses them from thinking. Yours is a feeling based reasoning. I guess you'll get some credit from the feminist croud... a man who is so in touch with his feelings... ohh what's that around your kneck. A leash? Oh no are those strings tied to your arms and is that a hand shoved up your ass moving your lips for you.

Now to really piss you off I am going to ignore you. I love having the last word. Your nothing but a parrot and a pawn and you always will be even if you kill every last person who wont step in line.

er

yea I know I am now banded from this board... you aren't the first

keep talking.. the more you talk the more you prove my point. This is dangerous to society. The truth is self evident.

Praxus
15 May 04,, 21:21
Keep in mind, making up your own language, which by the look of it you seemed to do is not part of "thinking for yourself".

headlessbarbie
15 May 04,, 21:26
Keep in mind, making up your own language, which by the look of it you seemed to do is not part of "thinking for yourself".

I call it butchering the english language. I know I know I know... I need to do something about lack of writting skills. But it is so handy in picking out the petty people. If some one doesn't like what I have to say but can't really disagree, they invariably go for the easy target. There are some people who have been so sweet and tried school me. It kind of gives me insight into their charitor.

Na.. I am just procrastinating but it sounded good. I got to go take a class

er

Confed999
15 May 04,, 22:11
no! really!.... what shock, well I have on my own merit chose to do my own thinking by my own self.
I choose to learn from the mistakes of others, rather than make all of those mistakes myself.

you aren't angry
I'm not angry, if anything I pitty you.

because of the merit or lack there of that I base my opinion on..... you like your other narrow minded intollerant bigoted comrods are simply pissed because, gasp! oh my gosh!... some body dared to dissagreed with your little narrow miopic view of the world.
Best I can tell you say my friends damage society because of who they say "I love you" too. You call me biggoted and intolerant, but I don't like you for who you are, not what you are.

Yours is a tyriancial view and I have no doubt you will carry this to its logical end.
The tyranny of freedom and equality! That has quite a ring to it.

Now to really piss you off I am going to ignore you. I love having the last word.
That doesn't piss me off either, I doubt you could make me mad. By the way, on a message board like this ignoring me doesn't get you the last word, because all I have to do is click "submit reply"...

Trooth
16 May 04,, 18:25
Headlessbarbie, if i may summarise :-

You posted a comment regarding homosexuals, you were asked to clarify and you did so. Members of the board wished to debate that reply with you. It is at this point you flew into a hissy fit, refused to talk about it anymore and started accusing people of being intolerant, narrow minded and the victims of some sort of thought control that you decided to manifest in the vision of some strange sado-masochistic erotic fantasy. For dessert you put your fingers in your ears and yelled i am not listening.

Now, remind me again where other people are behaving oddly?

Confed999
17 May 04,, 17:40
if i may summarise
Son of a.... What is that, three times now? Maybe I should start rethinking my positions. LOL :)

headlessbarbie
30 May 04,, 23:03
Headlessbarbie, if i may summarise :-

You posted a comment regarding homosexuals, you were asked to clarify and you did so. Members of the board wished to debate that reply with you. It is at this point you flew into a hissy fit, refused to talk about it anymore and started accusing people of being intolerant, narrow minded and the victims of some sort of thought control that you decided to manifest in the vision of some strange sado-masochistic erotic fantasy. For dessert you put your fingers in your ears and yelled i am not listening.

Now, remind me again where other people are behaving oddly?


Really... am I obligated to justify my posistion?

Futher more I wouldn't call it a hissy fit.... it was a personal attack I deliberatly launched toward confed.

Last of all.. I have listened all I care to listen and said all I care to say.

I thought the inquisistions where a thing of the past.

I don't like talking about the subject. Period... deal with it. Get over it. Where is it written that one must justify or debate ones posistion on any subject.

this is just weird.

er

Oh yea I almost forgot....


and the victims of some sort of thought control that you decided to manifest in the vision of some strange sado-masochistic erotic fantasy.

I am not going to try to address this..... simply because I have no idea what you mean. Are you trying to change the subject from propaganda to my own personal fantasies? ;) I thought this was a political forum.

headlessbarbie
30 May 04,, 23:22
banned... not banded... banned. I can spell better then that! It was a typo, that was just embarrassing
er

Confed999
31 May 04,, 00:33
it was a personal attack I deliberatly launched toward confed.
If that wasn't a hissy fit then that was sad. There is no way you can insult me. Maybe if you knew me you could find a weak spot, but you're just making laughable random attacks.

I don't like talking about the subject.
Then why did you bring it up?

themuffinman
31 May 04,, 04:19
http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/whatisterrorism/stages/index.html

I would like to have a disscussion about propaganda and terrorism but first check out this site it is a great resource for info on terrorism. Check out the 4 stages of terrorism.

What I have come to understand after reading up on terrorism is that long before you see violence like 9/11 the citizens of the target country will be subject to propaganda. Propaganda is taylored to every group with in that society...

Think about what that means. Long before 9/11 propagandist began spoonfeeding us small doses of poisin preparing us to turn against our own government. To demoralizes us... to even radicalize certain segments of our population. Considering the fact that these guys are masters of psychology and human behavior, they have years of training and a long history of success (just look at Germany and the Soviet Union) we have to consider the possibility that we have swallowed some lies ourselves
Let me give you an example:
I have been studying this for a while and I think this guy is a propagandist directing his propaganda to the right.http://www.infowars.com/ I believe Noam Chompsky is a leftist propagandist but they both have the same agenda.... the evetual overthrow of the American government. Think about for a while.


I really would love to have some input on this subject from someone who has a little knowledge or is willing to approach this with an open mind.

The first knee jerk response is to defend oneself and jump into deep denial... but it only logical to assume that some of the crap we have believed is lies mixed with truth or missinformation.

another great resource on propaganda is an old encylopidia britanica.. make sure it is older than the 60's though.
eryan

We also have the Enemy within

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear.

----Marcus Tullius Cicero
Roman orator, statesman 42 B.C.

headlessbarbie
02 Jun 04,, 08:16
We also have the Enemy within

A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear.

----Marcus Tullius Cicero
Roman orator, statesman 42 B.C.

Exactly.

er