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  • food for thought on propaganda

    http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/what...ges/index.html

    I would like to have a disscussion about propaganda and terrorism but first check out this site it is a great resource for info on terrorism. Check out the 4 stages of terrorism.

    What I have come to understand after reading up on terrorism is that long before you see violence like 9/11 the citizens of the target country will be subject to propaganda. Propaganda is taylored to every group with in that society...

    Think about what that means. Long before 9/11 propagandist began spoonfeeding us small doses of poisin preparing us to turn against our own government. To demoralizes us... to even radicalize certain segments of our population. Considering the fact that these guys are masters of psychology and human behavior, they have years of training and a long history of success (just look at Germany and the Soviet Union) we have to consider the possibility that we have swallowed some lies ourselves
    Let me give you an example:
    I have been studying this for a while and I think this guy is a propagandist directing his propaganda to the right.http://www.infowars.com/ I believe Noam Chompsky is a leftist propagandist but they both have the same agenda.... the evetual overthrow of the American government. Think about for a while.


    I really would love to have some input on this subject from someone who has a little knowledge or is willing to approach this with an open mind.

    The first knee jerk response is to defend oneself and jump into deep denial... but it only logical to assume that some of the crap we have believed is lies mixed with truth or missinformation.

    another great resource on propaganda is an old encylopidia britanica.. make sure it is older than the 60's though.
    eryan

  • #2
    Everything written, or said is propaganda, everyone has an agenda, even if they won't admit it.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

    Comment


    • #3
      No.. you are wrong.

      No. There is information for the purpose of educating and informing. Some people have a sincer motive to educate. Not all information is bs. Propaganda is for the purpose of changing and forming oppinons in others with out their consent. to controll others ideas and actions... to dominate... to control their minds. Jim Jones was not an educator... Dr. Pat Briney is an educator. Big hudge difference.

      Your comment is disterbing. I don't doubt you are sincere but it doesn't seem to occure to you that there is a difference between legitament education and brainwashing. wow

      http://www.propagandacritic.com/

      read study learn educate yourself.... true every buyer must beware but not everybody is a controll freak with an agenda and not every piece of information is lies mixed with truth.

      the key to resisting brainwashing and false information is critical thinking and critical reading...
      http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/longview...efinitions.htm

      Critical readers are:
      willing to spend time reflecting on the ideas presented in their reading assignments
      able to evaluate and solve problems while reading rather than merely compile a set of facts to be memorized
      logical thinkers
      diligent in seeking out the truth
      eager to express their thoughts on a topic
      seekers of alternative views on a topic
      open to new ideas that may not necessarily agree with their previous thought on a topic
      able to base their judgments on ideas and evidence
      able to recognize errors in thought and persuasion as well as to recognize good arguments
      willing to take a critical stance on issues
      able to ask penetrating and thought-provoking questions to evaluate ideas
      in touch with their personal thoughts and ideas about a topic
      willing to reassess their views when new or discordant evidence is introduced and evaluated
      able to identify arguments and issues
      able to see connections between topics and use knowledge from other disciplines to enhance their reading and learning experiences

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Attributes of a critical thinker:
      asks pertinent questions
      assesses statements and arguments
      is able to admit a lack of understanding or information
      has a sense of curiosity
      is interested in finding new solutions
      is able to clearly define a set of criteria for analyzing ideas
      is willing to examine beliefs, assumptions, and opinions and weigh them against facts
      listens carefully to others and is able to give feedback
      sees that critical thinking is a lifelong process of self-assessment
      suspends judgment until all facts have been gathered and considered
      looks for evidence to support assumption and beliefs
      is able to adjust opinions when new facts are found
      looks for proof
      examines problems closely
      is able to reject information that is incorrect or irrelevant

      eryan
      Last edited by headlessbarbie; 12 May 04,, 00:46.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        No. There is information for the purpose of educating and informing. Some people have a sincer motive to educate.
        Propaganda:
        2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
        3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
        Seems that covers everything written or said. Maybe it's just me.
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        Not all information is bs.
        No it isn't, but propaganda isn't necessarily BS either.
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        Dr. Pat Briney
        Has an opinion too, trust me. Does he show all perceptions of reality? My side, your side and the truth?
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        I don't doubt you are sincere but it doesn't seem to occure to you that there is a difference between legitament education and brainwashing. wow
        I have no idea where that came from.
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        not everybody is a controll freak with an agenda
        Not everybody is a control freak, but everyone has an opinion and an agenda. I have never ever met anyone who didn't.
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        not every piece of information is lies mixed with truth.
        Information is information, but it's all reported by by people from their point of view. The best way I've found to come close to truth is to find the same info from several viewpoints and average them.
        Originally posted by headlessbarbie
        the key to resisting brainwashing and false information is critical thinking and critical reading...
        I just figure everything is false, until I see proof for myself.
        No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
        I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
        even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
        He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE=Confed999]Propaganda:
          2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
          3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
          Seems that covers everything written or said. Maybe it's just me.

          No it isn't, but propaganda isn't necessarily BS either.
          Oh of course you are correct. I suppose I should clearly define what I am talking about. I am talking about subversive propaganda that is intended to brainwash an entire population for the purpose of acheiving political goals that could not otherwise be accomplished if the population where not being manipulated and deceived.. for example: propaganda that decieves and entire population to pleadge unquestioning allegence to a tyrianical dictator.. ie Stalin in communist russia. Many of the people who where being persecuted imprissioned and sentenced to death at Stalins orders would write Stalin himself to alert him to the crimes they believed was being committed with out his knowledge while he was giving direct orders for their execution, the russians where brainwashed and being controlled by a handful of people through the power of brainwashing propaganda fear and terrorism. It was brainwashing propaganda that caused Iraqis to embrace Sadam and Germans to complacently stand by and allow their government to be overthrown by the Brown Shirts.

          Has an opinion too, trust me. Does he show all perceptions of reality? My side, your side and the truth?
          I can honestly say YES. The Dr. is my childrens science teacher and when he teaches on the subject of evolution for example he thoroughly educates the children on both sides of the subject. My children who have completed his classes know more about evolution than most college students who unquestionly believe that evolution is fact. He also teaches both kinds of phlosophy that has influenced western culture... did you know there was more than greek philosophy shaping our culture


          I have no idea where that came from.
          My perception of what you are saying is that you do not recognize the differences in legitament education and indoctrinenation... I will have to post the difference of indoctrination and education for you at the end of the post

          Not everybody is a control freak, but everyone has an opinion and an agenda. I have never ever met anyone who didn't.

          Information is information, but it's all reported by by people from their point of view.
          quite right and a lagit teacher will make that point perfectly clear.
          The best way I've found to come close to truth is to find the same info from several viewpoints and average them.
          good for you! but are you sure? I don't take everyone at there word either so allow me to challenge you on this one. Lets point to very controversial subject like ... evolution and creation. do you have a strong oppinion on this subject and have you really examined both sides? another subject. I will assume you are an american conservative... have you ever read a book written by a socialist about socialism? Have you ever read Mein Kaump or do you just believe facist and Nazies are evil without question.

          I just figure everything is false, until I see proof for myself.
          Once again are you sure... do you believe homosexual unions are bad or good? have you gone to the opposistion first hand to see what their side is on this issue?

          My whole point is that we are under some pretty effective brainwashing influences in our country and I hope to find someone who knows a little about brainwashing or is willing to educate themselves on the matter so that we can kick around some ideas together. I asked for open minds. No disrespect intended but you seem to be jerking your knee. I dont intend to offend you but to challenge you. Be honest with your self before you answer ( I am sure you usually are otherwise you would be a flaming socialist/atheist ect.) and think about what I am saying before you respond. I don't intend to sound condensending... I had to put my self through a pretty tough intellectually honesty check on many issues once I started to think about these things and I am the first to admitt I was believeing with out questioning on a few pet topics... ie religion! homosexuality! liberals! I had to admitt I was wrong about my fellow liberal citizens in many ways... some of my religous notions where just rediculous and that was hard to admitt. I was right on the money about homosexuals though!
          all I am trying to say is that we are being brainwashed in certain areas and I really want to find someone to talk to about it and toss around some theories I have.
          Yes everybody has an agenda and is trying to persuade you in their direction but all directions are not equal and some are bad and some are good. Few people are honest but most are not and the bad ones will not come with signs that say "Warning you are on the path to insanity and loss of freedom and I am trying to use you as a pawn in my revolution to overthrow your government. (think of the terrorist they are somebodys pawn! i wonder whos? I have a theory!) Marx termed liberals as usefull idiots... blacks in inner citys are being used as "agents of change"....conservative americans are being lured into a extream facist movement that is supposedly "christian"(I am not refering to Bush) sometimes the most "enlightend" of us seem to be the most exploited and if we think there isn't a potential for us to be used as pawns... then we are in the greatest danger!
          I guess I have said enough. I hope I clarified any missunderstanding I created on my part.

          eryan...... we have to make sure we are always on the right side of the issue... and with out careful and honest self scrutiny we will find ourselves defending evil just like the Germans or todays Muslims and liberals.

          Comment


          • #6
            oh yea a test

            Is there anybody you agree with 100%? Rush Limbaugh? Your preacher? Your professor? Your teacher? Your best friend? If you can say "dito Rush I agree with you 100%.. then Rush is controlling your thinking! (once again.. I am just going on the assumption that you are a conservative American that likes Rush.)



            Indoctination and education...




            Indoctrination (Propaganda) Education

            Indoctrination>
            Uses generalizations, "allness" statements: Lacks specific references and data.
            Education> Uses qualifiers: Statements supported with specific references and data.

            Indoctrination>
            One sided: Different or opposing views are either ignored, misrepresented, underrepresented, or denigrated.
            Education>
            Circumspect and multifaceted: Issues examined from many points of view. Opposition fairly represented.

            Indoctrination>
            Card stacking: Data carefully selected to present only the best or worst possible case. Language used to conceal.
            Education>
            Balanced: Presents representative samples from a wide range of available data on the subject. Language used to reveal.

            Indoctrination>
            Misleading use of statistics.
            Education>
            Statistical references qualified with respect to size, duration, criteria, controls source, and subsidizer.

            Indoctrination>
            Lumpism: Ignores distinctions and subtle differences. Lumps superficially similar elements together. Reasons by analogy.
            Education>
            Discrimination: Points out differences and subtle distinctions. Uses analogies carefully, pointing out differences and nonapplicability.

            Indoctrination>
            False dilemma (either/or): There are only two solutions to the problem or two ways of viewing the issue -- the "right way" (the writer or speaker's way) and the "wrong way" (any other way).
            Education>
            Alternatives: There are many ways of solving a problem or viewing an issue.

            Indoctrination>
            Appeals to authority: Statements by selected authority figures used to clinch an argument. "Only the 'expert' knows."
            Education>
            Appeals to reason: Statements by authority figures used to stimulate thought and discussion. "Experts" seldom agree.

            Indoctrination>
            Appeals to consensus (bandwagon): "Everybody's doing it" so it must be right.
            Education>
            Appeals to fact and logic: Supports arguments with impartially selected data and logic.

            Indoctrination>
            Appeals to emotions and automatic responses: Uses words and pictures with strong emotional connotations.
            Education>
            Appeals to people's capacity for thoughtful, reasoned responses: Uses emotionally neutral words and illustrations.

            Labeling: Uses labels and derogatory terms to describe proponents of opposing viewpoint.
            Education>
            Avoids labels and derogatory language. Addresses the argument, not the people supporting a particular viewpoint.

            Indoctrination>
            Ignores assumptions and built-in biases.
            Education>
            Explores assumptions and built-in biases.

            Indoctrination>
            Language usage promotes lack of awareness.
            Education>
            Language usage promotes greater awareness

            THOUGHT REFORM (this is a more accurate term than "brainwashing"

            http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Brainwashing

            http://www.dike.de/SINUSsekteninfo/lec/psycho/tech.html

            http://www.rickross.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              I can honestly say YES. The Dr. is my childrens science teacher and when he teaches on the subject of evolution for example he thoroughly educates the children on both sides of the subject.
              Both sides? You mean Creationism vs. Evolutionism? Pure religon vs. pure science? What does he teach of Deists, and others that marry belief in God with science? Ones that see evolution as proof of God's existance?
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              did you know there was more than greek philosophy shaping our culture
              As an American dozens of cultures, each with their own philosophy(s), all affecting life as I know it. BTW, I have my own philosophy on a great many subjects and I affect the world around me each day.
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              so allow me to challenge you on this one. Lets point to very controversial subject like ... evolution and creation. do you have a strong oppinion on this subject and have you really examined both sides?
              Yes. I've actually examined dozens of sides to that question. :)
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              I will assume you are an american conservative... have you ever read a book written by a socialist about socialism?
              Yes! Every system has it's good points and bad points, trick is figuring out how to get the good without the bad.
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              Have you ever read Mein Kaump or do you just believe facist and Nazies are evil without question.
              Never read it. Nobody is evil without question, except the ones that insist they are evil. Allways give those the benifit of the doubt.
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              do you believe homosexual unions are bad or good? have you gone to the opposistion first hand to see what their side is on this issue?
              Of all the homosexuals I know, seven, six are in commited long term relationships and one just can't seem to find a guy. It's too bad, he's a nice fella. I'm an American, first and foremost, all men are created equal, everything else is secondary. As to the opposition, my parents live in a place, that until recently, nobody but straight whites were allowed after dark. Really. My family trained me well to see that racism and general descrimination is wrong.
              Originally posted by headlessbarbie
              No disrespect intended but you seem to be jerking your knee.
              No disrespect taken, I'm simply stating my opinion. That's my agenda, to toss in my 2 cents whenever I can make it apply. :)
              No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
              I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
              even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
              He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by headlessbarbie
                Is there anybody you agree with 100%? Rush Limbaugh? Your preacher? Your professor? Your teacher? Your best friend? If you can say "dito Rush I agree with you 100%.. then Rush is controlling your thinking!
                I really don't listen to Rush much. It seems he is a Republican first, I am not. But, even though I don't know him I can say with 100% accuracy that there are things he believes that match 100% with what I believe. Since I don't listen to his show, he can't be controling my thinking just because I have similar beliefs. I bet you have beliefs that I agree with 100%, and I'm sure you have beliefs that I refute 100%, same with Rush or anyone else.
                No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                Comment


                • #9
                  [
                  =Confed999]Both sides? You mean Creationism vs. Evolutionism? Pure religon vs. pure science? What does he teach of Deists, and others that marry belief in God with science? Ones that see evolution as proof of God's existance?
                  I can see by your response that you haven't examined both sides.... creationism isn't about religion it is about a scientific theory based on the presumption that life came about by design and from an eternal intellegent being, evolution is a scientific theory that presums that energy is eternal and life came obout by chance not design...

                  Both sides build their theories on the same evidence but reach different conclusions based upon the presumption of design or chance.

                  Only the creationist side will tell you that it is all theory and no body knows for certain because life came into being with out an eye whitness and neither theory can be tested and observed in the lab..some evolutionist say that evolution is fact and others say they are no closer to finding evidence of evolution than they where at the time Darwins ideas where first taken seriously by some in the scientific comunity. It is interesting though evolutionist are busy trying to create life in the lab to prove evolution... but amazingly they fail to realize if the do succeed in createing life in the lab they used their own intellegence to create life and life will have come from an intellegent creator not by chance at all! For evolution to be proven in the lab, energy and matter would have to appear on the petry dish by chance all on its own.
                  And of course he teaches on the deist theory. duh ;) He teaches all views on this subject and has the students debate him.. he will debate the evolutionist side and have the student debate the creationist side. He always wins. So, is the Dr. an evolutionist or a creationist? I will tell you this. When he started college he was a evolutionist and an atheist. As he learned more about evolution the more troubled he became about the theory all together. Because he didn't at first accept it with out question he had to take a special course. His professor told him that he (Dr. Briney) knew more about evolution than any student he had taught before. Dr. Briney has an interesting perspective on intellegent design and the DNA code.

                  The bottom line is that his student get the whole picture and then are left to make up their own minds.

                  As an American dozens of cultures, each with their own philosophy(s), all affecting life as I know it. BTW, I have my own philosophy on a great many subjects and I affect the world around me each day.

                  No sweety what I am refering to here is the fact that there are two poles of influence that have shaped western thought.

                  One is Biblical and the other is Humanist... and the Catholic Church during it reign did not adhear to a purely biblical world view. It was a mixture of Biblical thought and pagan, humanist and mystical... very eclectic. There has never been a time when there was a society based purely on a Biblical world view... But the period time preceding the American Revolution was strongly influenced by the Reformation... And the American culture was strongly effected by a Biblical and some Humanist perspective. The intellectuals in Northern Europe during the age of enlightenment studied the classics and Biblical phylosophy. In contrast Southern Europe threw out the Bible all together and studied humanistic philosophy and during the period of time preceding and during the French revolution was a driven by an almost pure Humanistic world view, so was the Boshevic revolution and the rise of Nazism in Germany. copece?

                  Yes! Every system has it's good points and bad points, trick is figuring out how to get the good without the bad.
                  Conservatives want to reform the system... todays socialist and other leftys are wanting to completely revamp and overthrow they system. gradually if necessary.

                  Ne
                  ver read it. Nobody is evil without question, except the ones that insist they are evil. Allways give those the benifit of the doubt.
                  Who claimes to be evil?


                  Of all the homosexuals I know, seven, six are in commited long term relationships and one just can't seem to find a guy. It's too bad, he's a nice fella. I'm an American, first and foremost, all men are created equal,

                  So you do believe man kind was created? The question is not weather or not homosexuals are equal in human worth and before the law... the question is: is the act of having sex with a person of the same sex a perversion or healthy and natural. Is homosexual unions moral or detrimental to society? Why is there even a debate? Nobody debates hetrosexual sex, just the context in which it is morally acceptable to engage in hetrosexual sex.

                  No disrespect taken, I'm simply stating my opinion. That's my agenda, to toss in my 2 cents whenever I can make it apply. :)[/QUOTE]

                  Okay good! Now maybe you can examine the basis of your oppinions on propaganda in this country... identify what is and isn't proganda and examine some of the underlying motives of propagandist that propagate...a NWO conspiracy for example. Is there really a NWO conspiracy... and even more inportant what propaganda is coming from the terrorist themselves and how far do you think that are going to get in their ATTEMP TO OVERTROGH OUR GOVERNMENT! It is only the most politically important issue of our day.... OUR GOVERNMENT IS BEING TARGETED FOR DELIBERATE DISTRUCTION SO THAT ANOTHER GOVERNMENT CAN BE ESTABLISHED AND WE CAN ALL FALL UNDER THE CONTROLL OF THOSE WHO USE TACTICS LIKE BUTCHERING OUR YOUNG MEN AND RAPE OUR WOMEN AND YOUNG GIRLS... WHO CHOP OUR MILITARY PERSONELL UP IN LITTLE PIECES AND HANG THEM FROM BRIDGES.. SOMEBODY IN THIS WORLD WANTS TO CONTROLL US OUR RESOURCES AND OUR INSTITUTION OUR COURTS OUR JAILS our LIVES... HELLO? isn't this a little bit disterbing to anybody but me? Liberals and those on the right are falling prey to this propaganda.... the u.n. is obviously in cahoots with who ever this invisable enemy is.. Who do you think is trying to overtrough our Government? The Arabs? I think not.. the muslims and their gready yet week kings and shieks and dictators are just pawns of another government. What government? This isn't just a religous movement it is a deliberate attempt to totally reorganize the American government to be.... what? who will lead? Somebody has declaired war on America and it isn't the muslims. Like I said they are just pawns... but who's pawns? At least this is how it looks to me. I want to find someone to discuss this with. are you up to it?

                  eryan
                  Last edited by headlessbarbie; 12 May 04,, 06:24.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Headlessbarbie,

                    I am going to turn your post into jibberish. Both creatism and evolution are one and the same. Those of us who tried to stay in quantum mechanics (vs those who truly mastered it) got a very strong glimsp at the Hand of God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      headlessbarbie,

                      You mind letting me in on your thoughts concerning homosexuality, or are you leaving us in suspense?
                      No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                      I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                      even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                      He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Propaganda takes many forms, some overt (i.e. wartime) some subtle (peacetime politicans) and some societal (i.e racial / religious / sexuality etc etc)

                        To some extent everything typed, as Confed said, is propaganda. People always bias (even if they don't know it) statements they make.

                        9/11 has been swimming with propaganda from the first hours after the planes struck. This propaganda has come from all sides.

                        In terms of motives, pick one. They can all be accounted for in the current mess. Just as they could in previous ones, and will be in subsequent issues.
                        at

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trooth
                          Propaganda takes many forms, some overt (i.e. wartime) some subtle (peacetime politicans) and some societal (i.e racial / religious / sexuality etc etc)

                          To some extent everything typed, as Confed said, is propaganda. People always bias (even if they don't know it) statements they make.

                          9/11 has been swimming with propaganda from the first hours after the planes struck. This propaganda has come from all sides.

                          In terms of motives, pick one. They can all be accounted for in the current mess. Just as they could in previous ones, and will be in subsequent issues.
                          I agree with your general argument, but do make a distinction between opinion and propaganda. It's okay for a journalist (for instance) to believe whatever they wish to believe, and even write articles subjectively as long as they make it clear that it is their opinion. What is definitely propaganda is when a news item is reported subjectively, devices such as emotive language is used to support or further a particular viewpoint in readers. Use of widespread one-sided coverage is another example of this, and a good example of both of these, are the al-queida promo videos they hand out to news stations. They usually contain footage of dead bodies, claiming to be killed by x y and z, and referring to x y and z as infidels who need erradicating by grace of God and there will be a reward in doing so etc etc...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Indeed. I guess true propaganda is portraying opinion, myth or rumour as fact.

                            Good propaganda takes the bad feelings about something and crystalises them with "facts" and "reason" and a belief that not only were your feeling's correct, but a great many people think like you. Those that don't are in some way in league wiith each other.

                            In some ways its like the old expression "you can't cheat an honest man". You have to want to believe, for propaganda to work. It tells you what, perhaps secretly, you wanted to hear.
                            at

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Confed999
                              headlessbarbie,

                              You mind letting me in on your thoughts concerning homosexuality, or are you leaving us in suspense?
                              Don't want to answer?
                              No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                              I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                              even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                              He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                              Comment

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