IR launch detection?

[ASG]

Ok. It is pretty much clear that modern aircraft can detect a ARH/SARH missile launch. An RWR onboard any aircraft would assist detection in case of any such launch.

However, what are the mechanisms aircraft deploy to detect lauche of an IR missile such as AIM9M,X or Python?

[GGTharos]

Here is an example of such a system:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/a.../an-aar-47.htm

and some more on the subject:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/siircm.htm

Long story short: Such a system is designed to detect the missile's launch flash primarily, and on some aircraft (EF-2000) active radar is used also to track the missile (but that's not very stealthy!) and give the pilot an idea of where it is.
Some IR systems might be sensitive enough to be able to detect and track a missile post-burn as well.

These systems have to deal with false positives so there are a lot of trade-offs right now. Currently, such systems are mounted on large aircraft, and the AH-1Z, if I recall correct. No fighter that I know of other than the EF-2000 comes equipped with such a system at this time, just large transports and bombers.

Both the F-22 and F-35 have provisions to mount such a system if I recall correctly.

[ASG]

So, fighters till date have been surviving the IR missile launched at them by Visual ID only?

So if a fighter sneaks up my ***** and fires a IR guided missile without my knowledge, I am toast, right?

[GGTharos]

Yep. If it sneaks up behind you and fires a radar guided missile and you -do- get all the warnings, you're toast, too.

This is why you have a wingman - aircraft don't fight alone. You -have- to see the launch. And in some cases the RWR is not loaded with software to even recognize some of the radar threats out there, so you might have to be looking out for threats that you would THINK you'd be warned about.

The world of air combat is -extremely- visual :)

[joey2]

I've once seen in Swat Cats the famous cartoon show and one of my fav that a badguy fired a Ir guided missile and they followed is what they called operation zero.

they shuted down the engine so tht all signatures are gone and before shutting down fired a missile.now the IR missile chases another missile and since the engine is shut down the aircraft started free falling from the sky.

again after some altitute it started its engine and climbed up.
is this not possible? to shut down the engine in midcourse of flight? and reignite it again.

[HistoricalDavid]

Even if you shut down the engines, the IR signature is still going to be significant for quite some time, and on top of it the aircraft will be losing energy constantly, making it easier the missile to hit anyway.

[GGTharos]

The engine will take a -long- time to cool down after it's shut down. It will also take a long time to spool back up once shut down.

So you have two problems:

1. The missile will likely not fly longer than 10 sec to hit you. In that time, you can barely get the engine to spool down to less than idle power.
2. Even if the missile did miss, you are now too busy relighting your engine and missile #2 will kill you, if not guns.
3. Modern missiles don't need your engine to lock onto. They'll lock onto the heat of the aircraft itself.

[joey2]

so no craft can handle it?
not even F22? or jsf? os they r the only two one who can handle it?

[GGTharos]

Er, let me put it this way.

For any aircraft, shutting down engines in combat = death.

You retard throttle to cool down the fuselage, that's about it.

[ASG]

3. Modern missiles don't need your engine to lock onto. They'll lock onto the heat of the aircraft itself.

Yes.

Through heat generated by the air rubbing through a piece of metal flying at several Machs.

Drag factor, to be precise.