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human
03 Mar 04,, 15:30
Christian groups have accused Arafat of killing up to 40,000
Lebanese civilians during the PLO's sojourn in Lebanon
((Excerpt from a much longer article))

The "massacre"

The term 'massacre' has seen increased usage over the last few years. Israel stands accused of massacres in Jenin and Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon is personally accused of sanctioning a massacre in Sabra and Shatila.

www.badil.org/Press/2001/press186-01.htm
www.mallat.com/articles/thecaseagainstarielsharon.htm

Some Human Rights groups have looked to find evidence of Israeli abuses in a bid to bring charges at the International Criminal Court (established July 1 2002)

www.iccnow.org/html/the_court.htm

Others have attempted instead
to use the Belgian law courts, which from 1993 to the present day, allow litigants to bring cases of crimes against humanity committed in any country.

news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_1458000/1458169.stm

PLO accused in Lebanon

Some argue that any analysis of Israeli policy must be accompanied by investigation of both former and current PLO activity. Current activity is well documented (see children). Past activity is not so well documented in the Western Media... Maronite Christians, one of the largest ethnic groups living in Lebanon, www.maroniteunion.org have accused the PLO and its leader Yasser Arafat of sanctioning massacres in Lebanese Christian towns of Beit Mallat and Tall Abbas between 1982 and 1990. See:

www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/medigest/feb97/letter2.html

www.aramaic-dem.org/palestinian_terrorism_and_war_cr.htm

Many pro-Palestinian commentators and supporters have dismissed attempts by Jewish groups to tarnish the PLO in Lebanon, claiming it is pro-Israeli propaganda. However, the evidence and events that unfolded there remain compelling. The sheer body of eyewitness testimony by victims and evidence of atrocities carried out by PLO in the 1970s and 1980s warrant further investigation.

Christians Accuse Arafat

Terror attacks by the PLO were seen as so bad at the time that on October 14 1976, Lebanese Ambassador Edward Ghorra told the UN, as quoted in the New York Times on October 15: "Palestinian elements belonging to various
organisations resorted to kidnapping Lebanese and sometimes foreigners holding them prisoner, questioning them, torturing them and sometimes killing them."
Christian groups have accused Arafat of killing up to 40,000 Lebanese civilians during the PLO's sojourn in Lebanon, which began in the 1970s after it was turfed out of Jordan during Black September.

During Black September, estimates of Jordanian and Palestinian dead numbered at least 10,000. So far no war crimes accusations have been levelled either at the PLO or at the Jordanian armed forces.

www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2587/black.html

So far no war crimes accusations have been levelled either at the PLO or at the Jordanian armed forces for Black September.Deir Ashahe destruction: Others point the finger at Arafat for the destruction of the Lebanese village
of Deir Ashahe in 1975 with hundreds estimated to have been killed.

www.wlo-usa.org/Bulletins/bulletin49.htm

www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2587/damour.html

www.gamla.org.il/English/feature/free2.htm

www.clhrf.com/freeopinionresponses.htm
( continued )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Find this article at: http://www.freemiddleeast.com/PLOmassacres.asp


"They have come with chariots and horses we come in the name of G-d - they have fallen, but we arose" (Psalms 20)

Lunatock
03 Mar 04,, 18:02
Welcome aboard Human. I trust you'll behave yourself on this board and won't troll?

human
03 Mar 04,, 19:22
Nice welcome from you Lunatock, I hope you are fair, and better moderator than the Chechen one on that board...

Any comments on the post, though. :)

Lunatock
03 Mar 04,, 22:05
Originally posted by human
Nice welcome from you Lunatock, I hope you are fair, and better moderator than the Chechen one on that board...

Any comments on the post, though. :)

Perhaps it'd be best for you to scan all my posts and make you own opinion. Perhaps also get a good grasp on the do's and don'ts. (M21Sniper & Ironman can also be quick to clamp down on you if provoked.)

As for the post. can't say it surprises me that the PLO was doing things like that in Lebanon. And odds are crying to the world about how they themselves are in such need of a pity party and Israel should give them a break.

Seen such things like that, more than I can stand at times. "We need to start being treated as people, and not animals...but we'll still act like animals towards you." And other such happy hypocrisy such as that.

One angry Palestinian in a crowd that had some cameratime and chose to scream "America is evil!" repeatedly is on my mind right about now. Wonder what he would of done to an "evil American" if he could have?

human
04 Mar 04,, 14:03
Hi Lunatock,

>>>Perhaps it'd be best for you to scan all my posts and make you own opinion. Perhaps also get a good grasp on the do's and don'ts. (M21Sniper & Ironman can also be quick to clamp down on you if provoked.)<<<

Sorry to say, but unlike you, I don’t have the luxury of time; therefore, I’ll take it one at the time, and by that I’ll be sure that I am responding to your particular opinion, and not prejudging what you are.

What you are belong only to you.

As far as clamping down, let me tell you this…

If I believe I have to say something, then I will say it regardless, and if anyone will feel that he is provoked because of what I said, then it is up to him to decide what to do of it, which in particular means to me…He can’t use his pen; therefore, he is provoked, which will be a failure on his part and not mine.

>>>As for the post. can't say it surprises me that the PLO was doing things like that in Lebanon. And odds are crying to the world about how they themselves are in such need of a pity party and Israel should give them a break. Seen such things like that, more than I can stand at times. "We need to start being treated as people, and not animals...but we'll still act like animals towards you." And other such happy hypocrisy such as that. <<<


Since it is ironic to act like an animal if you don’t have the instinct of one and you are human as you say, I have to say that your opinion here is a mare hypocrisy, and if you think that the Palestinians Were acting animals in Jordan, in Syria, in Lebanon, and now in Israel, then you must have the proof, (which the world is looking for) that the Palestinians will not going to keep acting even with peace in hand; especially, when their audio speaks of peace while their video shows war…

But since you didn’t provide any evidence of your theoretical thoughts, then let me assure you that I will not take what you said seriously enough to debate.

>>>One angry Palestinian in a crowd that had some cameratime and chose to scream "America is evil!" repeatedly is on my mind right about now. Wonder what he would of done to an "evil American" if he could have?<<<

Certainly he didn’t and he will not do except what his Imam tells him to do.


Anyway, thank you for your response.

Lunatock
04 Mar 04,, 16:30
Alright.

1. What's considered worth of clamping down on is personal attacks against people or countries. We had a few Neo-Communists come here and talk trash about America. And one of them was even suspended a few times for insulting Mods & Admins.

2. It's good your not going to debate my opinion about the Pali's. That I'm like quite a few others they alienated, when they could of had supporters. (Did you hear about the Egyptian Polititian that had hundreds of shoes thrown at him at Al-Aqsa a short while back?)


Since it is ironic to act like an animal if you don’t have the instinct of one and you are human as you say, I have to say that your opinion here is a mare hypocrisy, and if you think that the Palestinians Were acting animals in Jordan, in Syria, in Lebanon, and now in Israel, then you must have the proof, (which the world is looking for) that the Palestinians will not going to keep acting even with peace in hand; especially, when their audio speaks of peace while their video shows war…

Never said that. Just because you yourself has never done anyhting to warrant me to act like an animal, doesn't mean I can't or won't. ;)

Again, opinion. But what is yours by studying history, current events, or maybe even getting a good idea of thier behavior by associating with a semi-large group of Arabic people?

human
04 Mar 04,, 21:10
Hi Lunatock,

>>>1. What's considered worth of clamping down on is personal attacks against people or countries. We had a few Neo-Communists come here and talk trash about America. And one of them was even suspended a few times for insulting Mods & Admins. <<<

As I mentioned in my PM to you, I always try to conduct a rational debate, and I always give the other party chance to rewind his insult; therefore, he will be warned that next time around, he will get an insulting response back; however, since I will not complain unless it is a threat, this time around, I learned to copy and save the post because what usually happen is the initiator of the insult is the one who run to the complain box when his stomach became as sensitive as his Super Ego.

>>>2. It's good your not going to debate my opinion about the Pali's. That I'm like quite a few others they alienated, when they could of had supporters. (Did you hear about the Egyptian Polititian that had hundreds of shoes thrown at him at Al-Aqsa a short while back?)<<<

It seems like we ran into misunderstanding here, because I believe that I said, since you didn’t provide any proof for your theory, then it is useless to debate…

I know you don’t like the “YAKY Yack” either.

>>>Never said that. Just because you yourself has never done anyhting to warrant me to act like an animal, doesn't mean I can't or won't. ;)<<<

Ok. This is what you said: “As for the post. can't say it surprises me that the PLO was doing things like that in Lebanon. And odds are crying to the world about how they themselves are in such need of a pity party and Israel should give them a break. Seen such things like that, more than I can stand at times. "We need to start being treated as people, and not animals...but we'll still act like animals towards you." And other such happy hypocrisy such as that.”

Therefore, it sounded ironic to act like an animal with a human sprit inside, it cannot be as much as animal can act humanly even if he was a gorgeous pet, don’t you think?

Maybe you should re-edit your response, or if you don’t mind elaborate on the point.

I find it Disrespectful to deny you acting what you wish to act (what ever it is) just because you are like any one who sure can if he has the will and his warrant is not self made one to excute his long term goal and agenda…

Let me ask you this simple question: When you make any decision, you make it based on what?


>>>Again, opinion. But what is yours by studying history, current events, or maybe even getting a good idea of thier behavior by associating with a semi-large group of Arabic people?<<<

My opinion about what?

Lunatock
04 Mar 04,, 21:40
You do realise your debating everything I said with everything I said?...

Trooth
04 Mar 04,, 22:25
Is there some "previous" here ?

human
04 Mar 04,, 23:14
Lunatock,

You do realise your debating everything I said with everything I said?...

------------------------------------

I realized that you scan more than you read; it's a good habit when you are writing a research or a report paper, but unfortunately, it does not work with debating...

human
04 Mar 04,, 23:16
Trooth

Is there some "previous" here ?

-----------------------

Trooth?


NO.

Major_Armstrong
08 Mar 04,, 03:08
Here's an interesting article on Palestinians and terrorism:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=397851&sw=genetic+defect

human
08 Mar 04,, 04:29
Hi Major_Armstrong,

]Here's an interesting article on Palestinians and terrorism:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=397851&sw=genetic+defect

-----------------------------

Good article, thanks for the link...

Trooth
09 Mar 04,, 00:18
Er?
eh?
Sorry you must have linked the wrong article.

human
09 Mar 04,, 01:39
Hi Trooth,

Er?
eh?
Sorry you must have linked the wrong article.

----------------------------------------------------

You mean the wrong article for you?

Trooth
09 Mar 04,, 01:45
Sorry. I mstyped. I meant to say :-

You appear to have printed an article that quotes an uninformed person making unsubstantiated claims.

human
09 Mar 04,, 02:07
Trooth

Sorry. I mstyped. I meant to say :-

You appear to have printed an article that quotes an uninformed person making unsubstantiated claims.

------------------------------------

Which article we are talking about here?

Major_Armstrong
15 Mar 04,, 04:06
Check out some of the pages from Mark Gabriel's book here:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=199

Chapter 11 on the three stages of jihad gives lebanon as an example.


His book 'Islam and Terrorism':
http://cbw.strang.com/c.cgi?ProdID=8847&Source=CNSITE

human
16 Mar 04,, 07:27
Major_Armstrong,

THANKS FOR THE LINK MAJOR. :)

Major_Armstrong
16 Mar 04,, 17:30
See also

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php

Ray
16 Mar 04,, 18:47
I don't care to read the links since I know the psychology of those who are being kind to give the links.

I HATE terrorists and I am lead to believe that Islam has too many dichotomies and therefore to me it is irrelevant what they say.

To state the obvious, therefore, does not excite me. I don't require convincing. I am already convinced.

However, even if Islam is full of contradictions and weird customs, I still believe that those who wish to still practise it, are most welcomed to do it without imposing it on me by terror acts or by any other means.

If those who swear by Islam are happy, then what is it to me? They are also God's creation.

human
17 Mar 04,, 00:06
Hi Ray,

I don't care to read the links since I know the psychology of those who are being kind to give the links.

I HATE terrorists and I am lead to believe that Islam has too many dichotomies and therefore to me it is irrelevant what they say.

To state the obvious, therefore, does not excite me. I don't require convincing. I am already convinced.

However, even if Islam is full of contradictions and weird customs, I still believe that those who wish to still practise it, are most welcomed to do it without imposing it on me by terror acts or by any other means.

If those who swear by Islam are happy, then what is it to me? They are also God's creation.

-------------------------------

For some, Naivety is a human right, ignorance, or ill knowledge, with no offence; I can recommend more reading about swear by Islam...

However to describe with accuracy the Islamic justice in the land, I direct you to this well known Islamic Charia, and believe me if you are non Moslem in an Islamic court, you have one right:

The right of listening because the right of talking is reserved only to Moslems.

A Muslim Must Not Be Sentenced To Death For Murdering A Non Believer

Muhammad himself gives justification for this. He says only Muslims- have blood that is alike; thus a Muslim should not be put to death for murdering a non-Muslim but must pay a blood feud to the family of the murdered man. As expected, the great Muslim legists and scholars such as Ibn Timiyya, Ibn Hazm, Al-Shafii, Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, Al-Jalalan, Al-Bukhari and Muslim agree on this important point.


Take a peek at these laws for non-Moslems in an Islamic state:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Article...islamic_law.htm

Ray
17 Mar 04,, 01:22
Human,

For some curious reasons I am not getting access to the site.

Yes, I am aware of the rule.

Trooth
17 Mar 04,, 21:27
In some parts of the world, of course, no one would be put to death for murdering a non-muslim. Or a mulsim for that matter.

human
18 Mar 04,, 00:44
Hi ray,

For some curious reasons I am not getting access to the site.

Yes, I am aware of the rule.

-----------------------------------------

Use save and past into your browser.

human
18 Mar 04,, 00:49
Trooth,

In some parts of the world, of course, no one would be put to death for murdering a non-muslim. Or a mulsim for that matter.

------------------------------------------

Rare but true, but then legitimizing death raw according to a collective racist notion is worse, don't you think?

Trooth
18 Mar 04,, 02:10
As i have said many times, you can find any religion, grab its holy book and use it to justify any manner of unspeakable crimes. You name the holy book, they have all been used in this manner for centuries and it is happening today.

But that is the people, not the bible.

Mark Chapman is said to have used "The Catcher in the Rye" as his blueprint. Does that mean everyone who has read the book will follow his pattern?

Major_Armstrong
19 Mar 04,, 01:21
Ray wrote:


However, even if Islam is full of contradictions and weird customs, I still believe that those who wish to still practise it, are most welcomed to do it without imposing it on me by terror acts or by any other means.


There are a lot of Muslims in this world who force others to convert to Islam. BTW, there are various sects of Islam. Shia and Sunni are the most common. There are some Quran only Muslims who don't accept the hadiths(about Mohamed's life).

Trooth
19 Mar 04,, 02:05
Originally posted by human
Trooth,

In some parts of the world, of course, no one would be put to death for murdering a non-muslim. Or a mulsim for that matter.

------------------------------------------

Rare

Hardly.

human
20 Mar 04,, 18:02
Ray

Human,

For some curious reasons I am not getting access to the site.

Yes, I am aware of the rule.

----------------------------------

Go to the site.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

and look for tha article

human
20 Mar 04,, 18:05
Trooth,

Hardly. but not rare it is...

Trooth
20 Mar 04,, 18:50
My point was there are lots of places where people do not get the death penalty for murder.

Of the places that do use capital punishment there are plenty where the executed demographic does not match the national demographic.

human
21 Mar 04,, 18:49
Hi Major,


There are a lot of Muslims in this world who force others to convert to Islam. BTW, there are various sects of Islam. Shia and Sunni are the most common. There are some Quran only Muslims who don't accept the hadiths(about Mohamed's life).

---------------------------------------------------

Certainly what you said is fine, and also certainly the most common sects are the ones that drives and direct most of the collective of Islam, therefore, there is no doubts that the Sunni Wahhabism plays on the Moslems mind, while the She'ia play on their Jihad action...

But to tell my self that I have to believe that the Sufis are innocents of all that is unsubstantiated.

Why?

Because the Sufis must have a head, a mufti, an imam don't you think?

How come that head is not blowing the whistle against those criminals Moslems who are against his true Islam, but instead the Sufi head is talking to us about the goodness of the Quaran...

Does the collective of Islam playing rolls on the world.

I bet on it more than any other explanation...

Just because I don't belong to the denialists of idiocy...

human
21 Mar 04,, 18:55
Hi Trooth,


Since I know you don't throw words around without meanings, would you elaborate on what you said here because it doesn't make sense yet????

"What where the executed demographic does not match the national demographic." :00

Lunatock
21 Mar 04,, 19:02
Originally posted by human
Hi Major,


There are a lot of Muslims in this world who force others to convert to Islam. BTW, there are various sects of Islam. Shia and Sunni are the most common. There are some Quran only Muslims who don't accept the hadiths(about Mohamed's life).

---------------------------------------------------

Certainly what you said is fine, and also certainly the most common sects are the ones that drives and direct most of the collective of Islam, therefore, there is no doubts that the Sunni Wahhabism plays on the Moslems mind, while the She'ia play on their Jihad action...

But to tell my self that I have to believe that the Sufis are innocents of all that is unsubstantiated.

Why?

Because the Sufis must have a head, a mufti, an imam don't you think?

How come that head is not blowing the whistle against those criminals Moslems who are against his true Islam, but instead the Sufi head is talking to us about the goodness of the Quaran...

Does the collective of Islam playing rolls on the world.

I bet on it more than any other explanation...

Just because I don't belong to the denialists of idiocy...

Oh but the so called head of the Sufi's was, if there is such a thing. Regardless, inbetween Russia invading Chechnya, there was a war going on between the Sufi's, and the Wahabbis.

If Russia hadn't reinvaded so soon the Islamists would of been taken out of the equation by the Moderate factions.

Trooth
21 Mar 04,, 19:28
Originally posted by human
Hi Trooth,


Since I know you don't throw words around without meanings, would you elaborate on what you said here because it doesn't make sense yet????

"What where the executed demographic does not match the national demographic." :00

My point is that it isn't necessarily a religious trait to have racist or other bias in how people are treated. You get it in all forms of life, death penalties are no different.

human
23 Mar 04,, 02:56
Trooth

>>>My point is that it isn't necessarily a religious trait to have racist or other bias in how people are treated. You get it in all forms of life, death penalties are no different.<<<

Ok, this sounded different little bit from what I read first, but it sound reasonable as much.

human
23 Mar 04,, 03:05
Lunatock

Oh but the so called head of the Sufi's was, if there is such a thing. Regardless, inbetween Russia invading Chechnya, there was a war going on between the Sufi's, and the Wahabbis.

If Russia hadn't reinvaded so soon the Islamists would of been taken out of the equation by the Moderate factions.

-------------------------------------------------

Always there is something we did that caused your malfunctioning...

If you solved your problem on your own before it spells over into Russia, you will have a solid ground to negotiate from, but the you all people talk about the brutality of the Russian, can you tell me then why did you put your self in their mouth...


Between killing and wisdom there was Chechnya after all...