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TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 01:12
Thought I'd start yet another naval photo thread. This one is for damaged/sinking/scrapped warships. Basically if you have any pictures showing warships at their not-so-best, post 'em!
First up is HIJMS Hyuga looking fittingly like the battleships at Pearl Harbor

s_qwert63
23 Feb 04,, 01:15
Is that oil leaking on the bottom right side?

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 01:26
The first of 5 USN warships to suffer major damage in Middle East. USS Stark (FFG-31) was hit by 2 Exocet antiship missiles on May 17, 1987, fired by an Iraqi Mirage F-1.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 01:44
USS Samuel B Roberts being sealifted home on the Dutch Mighty Servant 2 after being mined in the Persian Gulf on April 14 1988.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 01:51
Originally posted by s_qwert63
Is that oil leaking on the bottom right side?
Yup, it sure is. Compare this picture to the aerial pictures taken by the Kido Butai during the Pearl Harbor attack

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 02:00
Speaking of the IJN, here is HIJMS Mikuma after being worked over by the USN and Midway air forces.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 02:05
USS Guam (LPH-9) being sunk as a target by the USS John F Kennedy battle group on October 16, 2001.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 02:19
The WWII-era oiler Ashtabula (AO 51) is attacked in a target exercise. The firing exercise took place off San Diego, and included ships from the US Navy (O'Kane (DDG 77), Curts (FFG 38), and Thach (FFG 43)), Royal Navy (Sutherland (F81), Cornwall (F99) and Newcastle (D87)), and French navy (Aconit (F713)). The old oiler is seen here after two hits from Harpoon missiles, each of which has opened a large hole in her starboard side. She finally had to be scuttled. Talk about a tough ship!

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 02:24
Ashtubula's final moments. She was hit by eight Harpoon missiles, two Standard (SM-2) missiles, three Sea Skua missiles, four bombs from S-3 Vikings, and over 100 rounds of gunfire from 3", 100mm, and 5" guns. They finally had to set charges to sink her :Beer The frigate behind her is USS Thach (FFG 43).

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 03:59
USS BUCHANAN was one of four decommissioned ships that were sunk as targets during RIMPAC 2000. The other three ships were the BELKNAP-class cruiser WORDEN (CG 18), the guided missile frigate RAMSEY (FFG 2) and the USS GENERAL HUGH J. GAFFEY (AP 121).

The sinking of the ships was conducted at the Pacific Missile Range Facility, north of the Hawaiian Island of Kauai, and focused on honing weapons firing skills and proficiency.

Missile firing and torpedo firing exercises to sink the BUCHANAN started June 13. Three Hellfire hits, three Harpoon hits and a 2,400 pound laser-guided bomb hit were not enough to sink the ship. The job was finally done by 200 pounds of explosive charges set by an EOD team so that the BUCHANAN sunk on June 14, 2000.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 04:45
and again

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 04:55
and again...check out that demolished 5-inch mount!

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 04:59
and again...man this was a very well documented SINKEX!

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 05:10
Down she goes...

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 05:21
USS Caron December 4, 2002. I don't think she was supposed to sink at the time this picture was taken. They were doing explosives tests and she was scheduled to be sunk during a SINKEX the next year. I guess she kinda advanced the timetable. She was also decommisioned on my 26th birthday and just under a month after the 9-11 attacks.

TopHatter
23 Feb 04,, 05:25
USS La Moure County getting to know the Chilean coast just a little bit too well...

bigross86
23 Feb 04,, 12:56
The first of 5 USN warships to suffer major damage in Middle East. USS Stark (FFG-31) was hit by 2 Exocet antiship missiles on May 17, 1987, fired by an Iraqi Mirage F-1.

I hate to bring up the subject, but the USS Liberty was attacked in June 1967, almost 20 years befire the USS Stark was.

USS Liberty, listing and battle damaged:

http://www.ussliberty.org/g/lg/sliberty.jpg

TopHatter
24 Feb 04,, 03:31
You are correct, though I didnt mention the Liberty for two reasons. 1) I was leaning more towards the "modern-era", that is 1980's to today. 2) The Liberty was in the Med and I was focusing more on the Persian Gulf area.
I certainly did not mean to exclude or minimize the sacrifice of the Liberty or her crew.

Next up: USS Essex (CV-9)

TopHatter
24 Feb 04,, 03:36
Essex again

TopHatter
24 Feb 04,, 03:48
and again

bigross86
24 Feb 04,, 10:47
USS Yorktown after Abandonment

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g20000/g21666.jpg

TopHatter
25 Feb 04,, 09:03
Great picture bigross. I wonder if that was taken before or after the fatal torpedoes that also sank USS Hammann?

Here is USS Pittsburgh after losing her bow to a typhoon

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 14:13
Does a typhoon count as battle damage?

Ray
25 Feb 04,, 15:15
Excellent stuff, Top Hatter and Big Ross.

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:47
Thankx

A Japanese bomb slashes through four decks of the USS Arizona on Dec. 7, 1941, and explodes in an ammunition storage room, killing more U.S. sailors in a few seconds, 1,177, than were lost in the Spanish-American War and World War I combined.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/gallery/pearl-harbor/uss-arizona.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:50
Pearl Harbor bombing. USS Maryland. Moored inboard of the USS Oklahoma, which capsized, the 31,500 ton Maryland was damaged slightly and was one of the first ships to rejoin the fleet after the Japanese attack.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20Oklahoma.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:50
Pearl Harbor bombing. Stricken from the air. Testifying to the extent of the Japanese sneak attacks are these three stricken U.S. battleships. Left to right: USS West Virginia, severely damaged; USS Tennessee, damaged; and USS Arizona, sunk.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20Arizona.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:51
Pearl Harbor bombing. USS West Virginia a flame. Disregarding the dangerous possibilities of explosions, U.S. sailors man their boats at the side of the burning battleship, USS West Virginia, to better fight the flames started by Japanese torpedoes and bombs. Note the national colors flying against the smoke-blackend sky.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20West%20Virginia.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:51
Pearl Harbor bombing. California hit. Battered by aerial bombs and torpedoes, the USS California settles slowly into the mud and muck of Pearl Harbor. Clouds of black, oily smoke pouring up from the California and her stricken sister ships conceal all but the hull of the capsized USS Oklahoma at the extreme right.http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20California.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:52
Pearl Harbor bombing. USS Oklahoma. Rescue crews are shown here working on the upturned hull of the 29,000 ton battleship USS Oklahoma, which capsized in Pearl Harbor after being blasted by Japanese warplanes. Holes were burned through the hull to permit the rescue of some of the men trapped below. Note one of the Oklahoma's launches in the foreground. The battleship, USS Maryland is in the background.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20Oklahoma%20Rescue.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:52
Pearl Harbor bombing. USS Shaw. Hit by three bombs which exploded her forward magazine, the 1,500 ton destroyer Shaw lies a twisted mass of wreckage in the heavily-bombed floating drydock YFD-2. Note the bow of the Shaw lying on its side in the foreground. Part of the drydock, at right, is under water while the other side is listing heavily. Both the Shaw and the drydock are now back in use.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20Shaw.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:53
Pearl Harbor bombing. Destruction. Smoke pours from the USS Shaw, bombed dry dock (right center) while in the foreground lies the capsized USS Oglala, a minelayer. To the left is the 10,000 ton cruiser, USS Helena, struck by an aerial torpedo on the starboard side. The concussion caused the Oglala, formerly berthed alongside the Helena to flood and she turned over after being brought to dock. At the extreme left, may be seen some of the superstructure of the USS Pennsylvania and at the right appears to be the USS Maryland burning.

http://www.hellohonolulu.com/images/USS%20Oglala.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:56
USS Nevada (BB-36) beached and burning after being hit forward by Japanese bombs and torpedoes. Her pilothouse area is discolored by fires in that vicinity. The harbor tug Hoga (YT-146) is alongside Nevada's port bow, helping to fight fires on the battleship's forecastle. Note channel marker bouy against Nevada's starboard side.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013619.jpg

bigross86
25 Feb 04,, 15:58
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g30000/g32771.jpg

smilingassassin
26 Feb 04,, 02:58
I recall seeing a picture of the hammann going down bow first as seen from the Yorktown while still underway. The picture of Yorktown seems to be of her just before she capsized so I'd assume that this is a pic taken after Hammann was sunk and before the Yorktown joined her.

TopHatter
26 Feb 04,, 03:06
Does a typhoon count as battle damage?

Nope, Battle Damage! was just a lurid come-on for people to check out the thread :dbanana
Don't forget what my first post said:
This one is for damaged/sinking/scrapped warships. Basically if you have any pictures showing warships at their not-so-best, post 'em!

I especially wanted to post modern pictures (though your Pearl Harbor pictures and commentary are excellent)

Here is HMS Nottingham after running aground

TopHatter
09 Mar 04,, 05:21
To go along with bigross's cool Pearl Harbor pictures, I thought I'd post a few of USS Pennsylvania's SINKEX

TopHatter
09 Mar 04,, 05:24
This is what could have happened on December 7th 1941 if the alarm had been raised an hour or so earlier. VADM William Pye's Task Force 1 being sunk in deep water, lost forever.

2DREZQ
17 Mar 04,, 17:43
Originally posted by TopHatter
This is what could have happened on December 7th 1941 if the alarm had been raised an hour or so earlier. VADM William Pye's Task Force 1 being sunk in deep water, lost forever.

Well, a capital ship maneuvering in deep water with all guns manned isn't the sitting duck she would be moored.

What if the alarm were raised, and the battlewagons had made a run at the Japanese carriers? (Gotten lucky guessing which way to go.) The japanese aircraft were configured for attacking pearl, how well would they have done at fleet defence?

2DREZQ
17 Mar 04,, 17:49
Originally posted by TopHatter
Ashtubula's final moments. She was hit by eight Harpoon missiles, two Standard (SM-2) missiles, three Sea Skua missiles, four bombs from S-3 Vikings, and over 100 rounds of gunfire from 3", 100mm, and 5" guns. They finally had to set charges to sink her :Beer The frigate behind her is USS Thach (FFG 43).

Is the 3" useful for anything, other than a New Year's noisemaker?

bigross86
17 Mar 04,, 20:35
Originally posted by 2DREZQ
What if the alarm were raised, and the battlewagons had made a run at the Japanese carriers? (Gotten lucky guessing which way to go.) The japanese aircraft were configured for attacking pearl, how well would they have done at fleet defence?

If I'm not mistaken there was a similar incident at the Battle of Midway. Tha Japs lost precous minutes during their attack switching munitions between anti-ship and and anti-ground/anti-personell weapons. During those minutes USN planes were able to attack with virtually no IJN planes threatening them. There still was AAA though. IIRC, 5 out of 6 of the USS Yorktown's Dauntless dive-bombers were shot down during an attack on one of the IJN carriers.

TopHatter
18 Mar 04,, 05:21
Well, considering the relatively weak AA suite of the fleet, compared to just a year or two later, and the large numbers of attacking Japanese planes, I really would have to favor the Japanese.

On the other hand, Task Force 1 would not have been a push-over either, since as you pointed out, the ships would be buttoned up, with D/C crews at the ready.

As far as the Battle Line taking the fight to Japanese carrier force...well, probably would not have happened. The battleships were just too slow by about 10 knots.

Still and all, can you imagine a World War II where the entire population of the USA was NOT enraged (and thus motivated) by a sneak attack and threw itself 110% into the war effort?

smilingassassin
18 Mar 04,, 08:02
I seem to recall this issue coming up on the warships1 forums, and action reports at pearl on dec 7th proved that the AA thrown up was acctually quite deadly. Unfortunately most ammo lockers were locked up so a full habours worth of ships failed to show its true potential. Not to mention Enterprize could have benifited from the battlefleet finding the Japanese carrier group. In any case I think the U.S did all it could, and not rushing to attack the enemy made it seem like such a shocking attack that galvanized the nation.
Given the fact that Nevada got underway late in the attack and nearly sank in the Channel means that any additional ships underway would have made this problem more likely to occur. Haveing the channel blocked off would have had the same effect as if the japanese had hit those machine shops and fuel depots.

TopHatter
19 Mar 04,, 08:23
I take my AA theory from the Enterprise task force first real anti-aircraft performance. VADM Bill Halsey was so disheartened that he said words to the effect of "Our guns might as well have been water pistols".

Clearly the 1.1" and .50 caliber guns were of limited value.

The 1.1's were unreliable or worse, and the .50's just didnt have the stopping power needed. There were other problems I won't go into, but all in all, only 29 out of 350+ planes shot down in an hours long attack really isnt all that good....though I certainly was not there and have no business second-guessing the servicemen and women who were actually there.

Personally, I am a HUGE battleship supporter/fan and have been for 20 years. But the Battle Force just wasnt up to the job of finding or chasing the First Air Fleet. It was too slow and the First Air Fleet was too fast.

Parihaka
13 Jul 05,, 04:10
Ex-USS Okinawa (LPH-3), hit by a Mk 48 Mod 5 ADCAP torpedo fired by USS Portsmouth (SSN 707).

Parihaka
13 Jul 05,, 04:22
The ship (destroyer-escort, TORRENS) was hit by a single MK48 ADCAP torpedo that was fired from a submerged submarine, the HMAS FARNCOMB (Australia), 12 miles away

TopHatter
14 Jul 05,, 17:24
DAYUM! :eek:

Nice pics parihaka! Don't suppose I can get you to divulge your source eh? :redface:

Lunatock
14 Jul 05,, 18:17
Unlike the USS Liberty this one might be wise to hold a grudge about. The USS Cole, damaged by Al-Qaeda suicide bombers in the Gulf Of Aden. :mad:

http://captsan.com/images/Scott/USSCole/USS_Cole_on_Transport_Ship-5.jpg

bigross86
14 Jul 05,, 18:59
USS Intrepid pix:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/carriers/histories/cv11-intrepid/int441125.gif

bigross86
14 Jul 05,, 18:59
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021123.jpg

bigross86
14 Jul 05,, 18:59
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/butowsky1/images/intrepid7.jpg

bigross86
14 Jul 05,, 19:00
http://www.japonsko.tnet.cz/kamikaze/intrepid.jpg

Parihaka
14 Jul 05,, 23:22
DAYUM! :eek:

Nice pics parihaka! Don't suppose I can get you to divulge your source eh? :redface:
Apologies for no links old boy, they're public domain so here ya go
http://www.csp.navy.mil/news/SINKEX.htm

and

http://www.ssbn622.homestead.com/Sinkex.html
although I just noticed the copyright on this. oops :redface:

Hawg166
15 Jul 05,, 03:56
http://www.nolimitsdiving.dk/nld/Vragdatabase/Billeder%20mm/Invincible_sankes.jpg

One of my favorites. The Invincible after the battle of Jutland resting on the shallow floor of the North Sea. This is the greatest example (except maybe Suraigo Straight) of a pure gun to gun sea battle ever.

Hawg166
15 Jul 05,, 04:05
I know that there werent cameras but I have to submit an artist rendition of the HMS Bellerephon after Trafalgar. It is called "Crippled But Unconquered". http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/images/ant66.jpg


`Ruffian' at Trafalgar
by Ted Goddard




The carnage that was Trafalgar was bloody and terrible. In HMS Bellerophon alone, 27 men, including the captain, had been killed and 123 wounded.

And from below decks came the agonising screams of those facing the prospect of life without a limb, as the surgeon's knife went about its work.

The 34-year-old first lieutenant, William Pryce Cumby - who was to die at Pembroke Dock 32 years later - had little time to reflect on the events of the day as he received casualty and damage reports.

He had taken command of the 74-gun ship-of-the-line in the thick of that decisive battle off Cape Trafalgar on October 21st, 1805. She was fifth in the lee column headed by Vice-Admiral Collingwood's Royal Sovereign as the British fleet prepared to take on the combined might of France and Spain with a bold plan given the `Nelson Touch'.

On board Bellerophon, everything was ready for the coming conflict. The magazines were all open, pistols and swords were ready to repel boarders and the shot was stowed close to the guns. The powder monkeys stood ready to begin their task and Captain John Cooke and his officers paced the quarter deck or at their respective stations.

To port, they could see the van column led by Nelson's 100-gun flagship, HMS Victory. And as Lieutenant Cumby made his final inspection of the decks, he noted that some men had chalked `victory or death' on the sides of their guns.

Collingwood's line of 15 ships was to be first in action. Bellerophon, with battle honours at the Glorious First of June and Nile behind her, moved defiantly towards her enemy and was soon engaged from port and starboard.

One set of guns replied with a fearful broadside at the Spanish Monarca, while others trained on the French Aigle. At the same time, Bellerophon found herself under attack from the enemy's Montanez, Swiftsure and Bahama.

Her main opponent, however, proved to be Aigle. Within 18 minutes of the start of the engagement, musket fire from the French ship had killed or injured all but four of the people on Bellerophon's quarter-deck. This number was soon reduced to two, with the master and Captain Cooke also falling under the crippling hail.

Two musket balls had pierced Cooke's chest, but he refused to be taken below for treatment. "Let me lie quietly for one minute," he asked. Within 60 seconds he was dead and command of the ship passed to Cumby.

At the time, Cumby had been touring the gun deck with new orders for the lieutenants in charge. As he returned to a maindeck stained red with blood, two sailors passed him carrying an officer, whose leg was badly shattered. Before he reached the quarter-deck ladder he was told Captain Cooke had been mortally wounded.

The fight with Aigle continued unabated and the two ships were so close that gunners fought hand to hand at the ports. At one port, the French threw in a hand grenade which came close to finishing Bellerophon.

The grenade started a fire in the gunners' storeroom and blew open a door into the magazine passage. The explosion had the effect, however, of closing a second door into the magazine, and men with buckets of water put out the fire without telling Cumby. At the height of the battle, three other enemy ships were also pouring death into the `Billy Ruffian'. Shot tore away sails, ripped up deck planking, cut hammocks to ribbons and hurled guns from their carriages. Splinters flew through the air cutting and gouging into human flesh.

Cumby found the quarter-deck, poop and forecastle almost cleared of men and, fearing that the enemy might try to board, he mustered his own party to repel them. A crowd of Frenchmen started to swarm across, as the ships locked in deadly combat, but they were shot down. Five more climbed along a yard-arm, but fell screaming into the sea as a supporting brace was cut away.

Hand grenades were still causing great destruction. One with its fuse still burning was hurled overboard by Cumby. Another scorched and wounded 25 men on the upper deck and one seaman, terribly hurt, threw himself into the sea in an effort to ease the crucifying pain in his dying body.

Wreckage of sails and spars littering Bellerophon's deck were cut away on Cumby's orders. After an hour of fierce fighting, Aigle drew herself clear under terrific raking fire from her opponent. Two-thirds of the Frenchman's crew were either dead or wounded. Bellerophon's attention now centred on the Spanish Monarca, which subsequently struck her colours to the English ship. This surrender was virtually the end of the battle for Bellerophon.

Cumby reported that `we were now without any opponent within reach of our guns'. It was time for him to take stock of the aftermath. Of the ship's complement of 600 officers and men, well over 25% were either killed or wounded. British casualties for the day totalled 454 dead and 1,141 wounded. The combined enemy fleet lost over 2,000 men with 2,220 wounded!

Bellerophon's main topmast had been shot away and her mizzen topmast was in a precarious state. Damage to the hull was less serious and leaks were soon brought under control - which was just as well. The following day brought a storm, with gales lasting for several days.

Cumby's ship managed to ride out the weather and seven days after the battle she reached Gibraltar with one of the Spanish ships in tow. Early in December 1805, Bellerophon arrived back in Britain under the command of Captain Edward Rotherham, Collingwood's flag captain at Trafalgar.

Cumby - whose home was at Heighington, County Durham - was reunited with his wife and children and left the ship on December 26th on promotion to captain. He later commanded the Polyphemus, another Trafalgar veteran, and in 1809 led a squadron at the capture of St Domingo harbour in the West Indies.

He was made a CB in 1831 and died six years later, on September 27th, at Pembroke Dock, where he was superintendent of the dockyard. He was buried in the town's Park Street cemetery

Parihaka
15 Jul 05,, 04:16
you'll like these then
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin19/imag1832.jpg

http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin01/imag0099.jpg

http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin19/imag1833.jpg

http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin19/imag1838.jpg
(destruction of the Queen Mary)
http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin19/imag1825.jpg

http://www.gwpda.org/photos/bin19/imag1803.jpg

Hawg166
15 Jul 05,, 04:17
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/_History/Galleries/Graf_Spee_68.jpg

The battle of the Rio De La Platte. That was quite a chase and an awesome story by one of the most prolific naval historians ever, Mr Dudley Pope.

http://www.powell-pressburger.org/Images/56_BoRP/GrafSpee.jpg

Hawg166
15 Jul 05,, 04:18
Its much to bad that there arent any real good pics of the Jean Bartte after the Massachusetts took her to the cleaners while tied up to a pier in Cassablanca.

Parihaka
15 Jul 05,, 04:26
Its much to bad that there arent any real good pics of the Jean Bartte after the Massachusetts took her to the cleaners while tied up to a pier in Cassablanca.
ahem, :eyesmodestlydowncast:
http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Francja/Battleships/1940_Richelieu_class/Jean_Bart_13.jpg

Parihaka
15 Jul 05,, 04:37
as well ashttp://www.warship.get.net.pl/Francja/Battleships/1940_Richelieu_class/Jean_Bart_12.jpg andhttp://www.warship.get.net.pl/Francja/Battleships/1940_Richelieu_class/Jean_Bart_damaged_02.jpg andhttp://www.warship.get.net.pl/Francja/Battleships/1940_Richelieu_class/Jean_Bart_23.jpg

bigross86
15 Jul 05,, 04:44
Wow. Talk about your morbid thread...

Hawg166
15 Jul 05,, 13:06
I have photos of the USS Bonefish submarine that caught fire on a training cruise back in 1987 I believe it was. man it was a long time ago. It foundered along side of us , and good young men inside died. I could never post the photos, that would be morbid.

TopHatter
15 Jul 05,, 14:17
parihaka is the man! Thanks! :cool:

Hawg, don't worry bro, we know :frown:

hello
15 Jul 05,, 16:21
Whoa, some thread! :biggrin:

Dreadnought
15 Jul 05,, 21:56
Wow Big Mamie (Massachusetts BB59) beat her up pretty bad. Perhaps the French should have reconsidered before saying no..lol No offense guys but following Suigao Straight no one could even compete with the U.S. Battle Fleet. I still wish we would have built the original South Dakota class as planned with 12 16" rifles even know they say she would never have been able to transit the Panama Canal.(Historians say she would have been able to give the largest broadside in history). A big gun duel between her and the Yamato would have been one hell of a show. Or even an Iowa class and Yamato would have been an awesome fight. Ahh the old days of "High Seas Duels".

Hawg166
16 Jul 05,, 04:19
I love the the steam fleets but I would still have loved to see the Battle of Trafalgar or the Battle of the Nile up close but definetly not personel.

Parihaka
18 Jul 05,, 06:45
I love the the steam fleets but I would still have loved to see the Battle of Trafalgar or the Battle of the Nile up close but definetly not personel.
Yeh same, when we were visiting some of my wifes friends in Gosport I looked over the harbour & said "that wouldn't be the Victory would it," pointing to some masts on the Portsmouth side. Dunno was the reply from all concerned :rolleyes: I spent a great afternoon walking the decks and educating the better half about her countrys history.

sparten
18 Jul 05,, 09:48
does nyone haves pictures of the Jutland wrecks. I know they were located and photographed. But I have not seen any yet.

Parihaka
18 Jul 05,, 11:18
does nyone haves pictures of the Jutland wrecks. I know they were located and photographed. But I have not seen any yet.
Too easy :redface:
http://www.periscopepublishing.com/images/Jutland%20gallery%20pages/Jutland%20exhibition.htm
http://www.divernet.com/wrecks/jutland1000.htm
http://www.starfishenterprise.org/SFJutland2001b.htm
http://www.bobhenneman.info/queenmarywreck.htm
http://www.nolimitsdiving.dk/nld/Projekter/Jyllands_Slaget/Projekt%202001/js_gallery2001.htm

bigross86
18 Jul 05,, 11:38
From the website:


This summer the Starfish Enterprise diving team headed for the North Sea to hunt down the "shallow" (50-60m) wrecks of the world's biggest naval engagement, the Battle of Jutland. Innes McCartney, whose great-uncle was a boy-gunner who took part in the WW1 battle and was rendered deaf for life, tells the story of the groundbreaking expedition.

I always thought the Battle of Leyte Gulf was the largest naval battle in history. Could I be mistaken?

By the way, OOE, do you have any articles on those two battles (Leyte Gulf/Jutland) similar to the article you posted on the Battle of Easting 73?

sparten
18 Jul 05,, 14:11
I always thought the Battle of Leyte Gulf was the largest naval battle in history. Could I be mistaken?

Well Leyte Gulf was really a series of battles. Largest battle, whats the criteria, personnel involved, ships, tonnage, area.

TopHatter
18 Jul 05,, 14:24
Well Leyte Gulf was really a series of battles. Largest battle, whats the criteria, personnel involved, ships, tonnage, area.

Yeah, good way of putting it.
I suppose someone could make the arguement that Jutland was a battle and Leyte Gulf was a campaign.
It's all just semantics anyway :cool:

Dreadnought
18 Jul 05,, 17:32
All very true. I believe they are quite comparible as to the knowledge that was gained as far as tactics and fire spotting and the ofcourse the spectacle of the big gun fights and the heavy losses incured. But much the same outcome either Navy drove home the idea that they were not going to have they're supremacy at sea challenged by anyone. After Jutland England ruled the Seas and ofcourse after the Leyte offensive the United States gained Naval Supremacy and why? BECAUSE WE CAN! :biggrin: BB61 Iowa letting go a monster salvo... if we give these up we might as well close up shop guys and become like other "Large" passive nations. Thankfull to live in the U.S. :biggrin:

Dreadnought
18 Jul 05,, 18:15
Too easy :redface:
http://www.periscopepublishing.com/images/Jutland%20gallery%20pages/Jutland%20exhibition.htm
http://www.divernet.com/wrecks/jutland1000.htm
http://www.starfishenterprise.org/SFJutland2001b.htm
http://www.bobhenneman.info/queenmarywreck.htm
http://www.nolimitsdiving.dk/nld/Projekter/Jyllands_Slaget/Projekt%202001/js_gallery2001.htm


Or there is still the HMS Caroline which is a Jutland survivor cruiser. She is berthed in Belfast Ireland and in fine shape i might add for a girl her age. The last remaining survivor of Jutland that I know of. :)

http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/light-cruiser/hms-Caroline.html

Hk40
18 Jul 05,, 19:55
Here's a pic of her at berthing in Belfast.
~ Hk40 ~

Parihaka
18 Jul 05,, 22:32
: BB61 Iowa letting go a monster salvo... :biggrin:
look at the sideways movement (can't remember the correct term) of the hull through the water :eek: :cool:

TopHatter
19 Jul 05,, 00:47
look at the sideways movement (can't remember the correct term) of the hull through the water :eek: :cool:

Just an urban legend my friend.
Battleships don't move an inch sideways during a broadside.

Check out this link:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm

Parihaka
19 Jul 05,, 01:10
Just an urban legend my friend.
Battleships don't move an inch sideways during a broadside.

Check out this link:

http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm
:redface: wow, that first photo from above shows the depression in the water beautifully, thanks TH

TopHatter
19 Jul 05,, 16:00
:redface: wow, that first photo from above shows the depression in the water beautifully, thanks TH

No problem :)

This is another often posted shot that shows it even better

bigross86
19 Jul 05,, 16:34
LOL. That's my background, and the background of every computer where I spend more ten 10 minutes and have access to the settings

sparten
20 Jul 05,, 07:09
Look at the muzzle flash. How much powder is wasted in a shot anyway. At least it seems we have a lot in the above pictures

Bill
20 Jul 05,, 09:03
That's a full 15 gun broadside in that pic.

I LOVE THAT SHOT.

LOL...

Dreadnought
20 Jul 05,, 15:29
The way i see it if your gonna let it rip then be commited and go full bore ...lol :biggrin: Yea Ha days of surface thunder ...sigh

bigross86
20 Jul 05,, 15:43
Well, there still are 5 inchers...

TopHatter
20 Jul 05,, 16:01
That's a full 15 gun broadside in that pic.

I LOVE THAT SHOT.

LOL...

You're referring to Dreadnought's post #73, yes?

Dreadnought
22 Jul 05,, 17:32
I agree Sniper even I was surprised to see all 15 firing at once figured you guys may enjoy it I'll keep looking for newer and older ones :cool:

Dreadnought
27 Jul 05,, 14:17
Hey guys I found a few more...lol enjoy
First is a black and white view of a starboard salvo . The second is a true classic.. all four Iowa's at sea together. Note this is not the picture many sites show of the four. :biggrin:

TopHatter
27 Jul 05,, 14:53
. The second is a true classic.. all four Iowa's at sea together. Note this is not the picture many sites show of the four. :biggrin:

THAT'S the picture I wanted to show bigross in one of our other threads.

I wish like hell they would have had a color camera. Even so, that would be an incredible poster. Or painting if I had the money to commision an artist

bigross86
27 Jul 05,, 15:10
Which thread are you talking about?

Dreadnought
27 Jul 05,, 16:37
Nobody and I do mean Nobody has or had anything that could even compete with those four at sea especially together. You could have put those four up against any set of ships including the Biz class and Yamato class and know they are coming back in one piece. Like you TopHatter i wish i had a close up in color of that pic. :biggrin:
P.S. Ill keep looking

TopHatter
27 Jul 05,, 16:43
Which thread are you talking about?

"More American Battleships" IIRC


Thanks Dread :)

Bill
27 Jul 05,, 17:05
This is the 15 gun broadside pic.

Garry
27 Jul 05,, 17:26
Tsusima battle is a very painful topic for Russians. Very stupid management brought a stronger force to complete desauster while Japanese admiral Togo with weaker fleet achieved a greatest viectory.

Here some fotos and pics

Dreadnought
27 Jul 05,, 18:23
Those poor Russians, It just seeems that with every major battle those people suffered the most damage and losses. You have to give them credit as they have always "carried on" dispite really bad odds and just keep coming.

Garry
27 Jul 05,, 18:42
Those poor Russians, It just seeems that with every major battle those people suffered the most damage and losses. You have to give them credit as they have always "carried on" dispite really bad odds and just keep coming.

from history I see a clear trend... if Russians have good odds they will lose the battle badly.... If they are weak and all odds against them, they would fight fiercefully and at the end will win.

This nation can not fight properly from strong position. To win the war they need to lose first battles.... Only when every soldier undertands that here is a major treat to Russia, soldiers fight very persistently

HOKUM
04 Aug 05,, 09:26
Ashtubula's final moments. She was hit by eight Harpoon missiles, two Standard (SM-2) missiles, three Sea Skua missiles, four bombs from S-3 Vikings, and over 100 rounds of gunfire from 3", 100mm, and 5" guns. They finally had to set charges to sink her :Beer The frigate behind her is USS Thach (FFG 43).

Hmm i'm surprised all these missiles werent enough to send her to the bottom

Here is HMS broadsword after being strafed by 20mm cannon from argentinian A-4s.

And HMS sheffield after an exocet hit, i read that the warhead failed to explode but the unspent rocket fuel started a fire which destroyed the ship. something to do with using aluminium to construct the superstructure

sparten
04 Aug 05,, 12:15
No HMS Sheffield did not sink because of the aluminium. IIRC it was because of the fire reaching the magazines.

Bill
04 Aug 05,, 18:11
Once ignited solid rocket fuel cannot be extinguished. It has to burn itself out.

Obviously, that causes a lot of damage, and is usually a bigger threat to the ship than the actual warhead.

TopHatter
04 Aug 05,, 19:44
Once ignited solid rocket fuel cannot be extinguished. It has to burn itself out.

Obviously, that causes a lot of damage, and is usually a bigger threat to the ship than the actual warhead.

Bear in mind also the miles of plastic-coated wiring that provided fuel for the fire.

Franco Lolan
04 Aug 05,, 21:05
Once ignited solid rocket fuel cannot be extinguished. It has to burn itself out.

Obviously, that causes a lot of damage, and is usually a bigger threat to the ship than the actual warhead.

How do firefighting crews train to extimguish/contain it then? Does it need O2 to burn?

Bill
05 Aug 05,, 07:23
Solid rocket fuel contains it's own O2 supply.

It cannot be extinguished...even in a total vacuum.

It just has to burn out.

Enzo Ferrari
06 Aug 05,, 03:47
Hey guys I found a few more...lol enjoy
First is a black and white view of a starboard salvo . The second is a true classic.. all four Iowa's at sea together. Note this is not the picture many sites show of the four. :biggrin:

Current status of battleships

http://www.warships1.com/US/BB61stats/index.htm

Franco Lolan
06 Aug 05,, 21:09
Solid rocket fuel contains it's own O2 supply.

It cannot be extinguished...even in a total vacuum.

It just has to burn out.

Wow.

Gun Grape
06 Aug 05,, 23:53
Hmm i'm surprised all these missiles werent enough to send her to the bottom

Here is HMS broadsword after being strafed by 20mm cannon from argentinian A-4s.

And HMS sheffield after an exocet hit, i read that the warhead failed to explode but the unspent rocket fuel started a fire which destroyed the ship. something to do with using aluminium to construct the superstructure

What caused the ship to sink was that the Exocet hit the single water main. The Alum superstructure did collapse, the cheap wiring did burn and give off toxic gasses. But all that could have been contained and the ship have only minor damage, if they had a redundant water system that would have allowed DC to put out the fire. Poor design.

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 19:47
One more I found recently.

BATTLE OF THE CORAL SEA
"In spite of scoring with five torpedoes and several bombs, the Japanese failed to destroy the 'Lexington immediately. But fires set by the attack led to a series of internal explosions. several hours after the action had been broken off, the 'Lexington' had to be abandoned and destroyed."

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 19:49
on this site i found some interesting ones
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/

U.S.S St. L: First Victim of the Kamikazes
1) Burning after the impact of the kamikaze, but not yet exploding
2) Exploding. Note fragments of the after flightdeck and the after elevator in the cloud.

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 19:53
on this site i found some interesting ones
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/

U.S.S St. L: First Victim of the Kamikazes
1) Burning after the impact of the kamikaze, but not yet exploding
2) Exploding. Note fragments of the after flightdeck and the after elevator in the cloud.

http://www.microworks.net/pacific/

Kamikaze Damage to Intrepid, 25th November 1944

1) The source location of this photo is unknown; it is another carrier in Intrepid's screen, though. The first photo in an astonishing series - the kamikaze visible just aft and above her island.
2) Taken from the battleship New Jersey, Halsey's flagship, the kamikaze about to strike Intrepid.
3) The kamikaze's impact creating a large column of fire. This is the explosion of the plane's bomb.
4) A huge plume of smoke shooting into the sky. Note that throughout the attack, Intrepid was steering to starboard, but it didn't help her this time.

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 19:57
http://www.microworks.net/pacific/

Franklin Damaged: 19 March 1945
The Essex-class carrier Franklin has the dubious distinction of being the most severely damaged carrier to survive the damage. On 30 October 1944, days only after her planes had assisted in destroying the Musashi in the Sibuyan Sea and Ozawa's carriers off Cape Engao, she suffered a bomb hit killing 56 and wounding 60. Her 1944 career was over, and she returned via Ulithi to a ten-weeks refit in the states.

1) Franklin seen from starboard aft. Note crumbled antennae system, damaged forward elevator
2) Franklin seen from starboard front. Displays antennae system, fire-fighting water running out of the ship.
3) Franklin on the way back to the states. Note the excessive damage done to the after portion of the flight deck.

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 20:05
Bunker Hill Kamikazed: 11 May 1945

1) Bunker Hill burning heavily after the second hit. She is trying to bring the smoke clear of the bridge.
2) As seen from another carrier in Bunker Hill's group.
3) From the bow of the wounded carrier.
4) More damage. The second Kamikaze blew this hole into the flightdeck close to the bridge. This explosion killed many of Mitscher's staff.
5) In the heat of fires and smoldering metal, fire-fighting parties attempt to cool down what's left of the 20mm gun positions and the flightdeck.


In next post... continued...
6) Some of the damage done on Bunker Hill: charred aircraft with only the steel engines surviving what shattered the Aluminium fuselages.

Garry
25 Aug 05,, 20:07
.

Dreadnought
26 Aug 05,, 19:26
Kamikazi hit on USS Columbia (CL-56) in Lingayden Gulf.

Dreadnought
29 Aug 05,, 17:19
Wisconnsin getting her new bow after collision with DD Eaton

Dreadnought
29 Aug 05,, 17:20
Does battle damage include human eardrums?...lol You would think they would be smart enough to use remote cameras for such shots :biggrin:

Dreadnought
30 Aug 05,, 18:03
September 1923 Honda Point. 7 nearly new USN Destroyers run aground and wreck in heavy fog. Fuller,Woodbury,Young,Chauncey,Nicholas,Delphy & Lee. :eek:

TopHatter
30 Aug 05,, 23:45
September 1923 Honda Point. 7 nearly new USN Destroyers run aground and wreck in heavy fog. Fuller,Woodbury,Young,Chauncey,Nicholas,Delphy & Lee. :eek:

I really hate it when I lose a squadron of destroyers that way...
Really tough to explain to Accounting.... :confused:

Dreadnought
31 Aug 05,, 20:19
I know what you mean TopHatter. Not to worry though even the Germans had their troubles..lol
Below Prinz Eugan and Leipzig collide :biggrin:

sparten
02 Sep 05,, 04:57
Could someone please tell this troll how do you post pics on this board.

Parihaka
02 Sep 05,, 05:10
Could someone please tell this troll how do you post pics on this board.
what troll?

sparten
02 Sep 05,, 05:25
Me

Parihaka
02 Sep 05,, 05:34
Me
Ah ok LOL, you can upload them from your own computer by scrolling down from the message box when you're posting and select "manage attachments" or you can post a link to them if they're on the web by clicking the iconhttp://www.worldaffairsboard.com/images/editor/insertimage.gif above the box and inserting the images url. You get the url by right-clicking on the image, selecting properties, and cutting and pasting the url or web address into the box. let me know if you have problems.

Dreadnought
02 Sep 05,, 18:59
Feb 1942 Prinz Eugen after her stern was blown off by a torpedo from HMS Trident just outside Norway. The crew had to "manually" steer her after she limped out of Tridents range. Never saw or heard of this before. (the "steering") :eek:

Dreadnought
02 Sep 05,, 19:24
The forward section of cruiser USS New Orleans CA32 Everything forward of turrent 2 was blown off after a single torpedo hit ignites her forward magazine during the Solomons campaign.

Parihaka
02 Sep 05,, 20:14
Feb 1942 Prinz Eugen after her stern was blown off by a torpedo from HMS Trident just outside Norway. The crew had to "manually" steer her after she limped out of Tridents range. Never saw or heard of this before. (the "steering") :eek:
God damn you get some good photos. The "steering" seems to be an adaptation of the old tall ships method when the wheel was shot away, the crew would rig a wheel & pulley system below decks. Must have been hard to rig it on a steel ship!

Dreadnought
05 Sep 05,, 16:17
Quote:
God damn you get some good photos. The "steering" seems to be an adaptation of the old tall ships method when the wheel was shot away, the crew would rig a wheel & pulley system below decks. Must have been hard to rig it on a steel ship!

Thanks Parihaka, I try to find different ones all the time but that one caught my eyes ive heard of trying to steer with anchors like in Biz's last sortie etc etc. But never realized that it had been done this way also like you mention with the pulley set up like the tall ships. Dam ratzies wish the Trident would have blown her in half..lol

Dreadnought
13 Sep 05,, 19:23
A favorite Dreadnought shot. USS Pennsylvania (bb38) taken 3 months after Pearl Harbor. Seen moored here in Mare Island undergoing repairs. Note she still has the large fighting tops on her also her name is removed from the stern like the other survivors of Pearl in order to confuse intell reports and the torpedo nets lining the water in front of her. The last of the USN "ram bows" she would reemerge months later with a newly designed mast, radar, bristling with additional 5" guns and one hell of an attitude. Note: new paint and no names on the stern they all would have them removed and go by their ship numbers (BB numbers) for the time and ofcoarse all the new hardware. (bottom).:biggrin:

TopHatter
13 Sep 05,, 23:11
A favorite Dreadnought shot. USS Pennsylvania (bb38) taken 3 months after Pearl Harbor. Seen moored here in Mare Island undergoing repairs. Note she still has the large fighting tops on her also her name is removed from the stern like the other survivors of Pearl in order to confuse intell reports and the torpedo nets lining the water in front of her. The last of the USN "ram bows" she would reemerge months later with a newly designed mast, radar, bristling with additional 5" guns and and one hell of an attitude.:biggrin:

Damn nice shot Dreadnought. :cool:
Where did you find that one?

smilingassassin
14 Sep 05,, 08:59
Feb 1942 Prinz Eugen after her stern was blown off by a torpedo from HMS Trident just outside Norway. The crew had to "manually" steer her after she limped out of Tridents range. Never saw or heard of this before. (the "steering") :eek:

The latest book I picked up, by squadron/signal publications has two photos of this same damage, one shows PE with the stern still hanging in Trondheim, Norway. The other shows a rear veiw of the temperary rudder setup.

What gets me is the book also shows the Seydlitz at the Deschimag yard in Bremen 95% complete. I can't figure out why the heck the Germans then decided to gut everything above the main deck to convert her to a carrier!

Dreadnought
14 Sep 05,, 13:05
Thankx TopHat i borrowed that pic (one of the best Pennsy shots ive seen yet) from http://www.navsource.org/ :) They post some really awesome shots.

sparten
14 Sep 05,, 16:27
What I would really like to see are pictures of HMS Lion after Jutland. Q Turret especially.

Dreadnought
14 Sep 05,, 16:50
Here ya go Sparten HMS Lion "Q" turrent after Jutland.. All 100 of the Royal Navy Marines except 2 were killed in the "Q" turrent after a direct hit from Lutzlow's 12" salvo sent a flash down the turrent if it wasnt for dying act of one Major Harvey who flooded the magazines Beatty's flagship would have certainly been doomed. He was awarded the Victoria Cross post humously. Sources attribute the fire to a cordite ingnition source still a mystery I would guess. Lion was towed home following the battle. What a somber tow home that must have been. The second pic is Lion smoking heavily from "Q" turrent while the mags are being flooded and still under boiler power. Notice she's settling evenly in the water.

P.S Sparten sorry about the bad pic there arent many of this and I try my best to repect others copywrites. :)

TopHatter
14 Sep 05,, 23:24
Thankx TopHat i borrowed that pic (one of the best Pennsy shots ive seen yet) from http://www.navsource.org/ :) They post some really awesome shots.

Of course, how foolish of me :redface:

And I was the guy that posted awhile back about how indispensable navsource is :rolleyes:

sparten
15 Sep 05,, 06:20
Thanx Dreadnought. :) The British Battlecruisers Cordite handling techniques were to blame for their loss. I have read that the shell that blew up Queen Mary did not even penetratre her, instead the shock set off cordite bags inside the turret which went down all the way to the magazine.

sparten
15 Sep 05,, 11:47
Don't know if this has been posted befire, but SMS Blucher sinking at Dogger Bank

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021305.jpg

sparten
15 Sep 05,, 11:56
Now this is really sad.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/023434.jpg

TopHatter
16 Sep 05,, 01:59
Don't know if this has been posted befire, but SMS Blucher sinking at Dogger Bank

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021305.jpg

Think you might have linked the wrong picture ;)

Dreadnought
19 Sep 05,, 18:56
Oklahoma finaly righted after the attack on Pearl. :frown: Note the pictures release date as being 1983 some 40 years later.

Dreadnought
23 Sep 05,, 16:24
Toulon, France 1944 the English bomb the harbor catching Dunkerque at her moorings. Pretty much scrap metal after that.

Dreadnought
23 Sep 05,, 19:27
Mark 48 Torpedo shot during war games 1999 HMS Farcomb scores direct hit on Destroyer escort Torrens.

TopHatter
08 Oct 05,, 18:10
From Navsource.org "On November 10, 1966, the Nautilus (SSN-571) collided with the Essex (CV-9) while running submerged about 350 miles east of MoreheadCity, North Carolina, during underway replenishment exercises. Both ships returned to port unassisted. The submarine received extensive damage to its sail area and went to New London, Connecticut. The carrier sustained an open hull cut in the bow area and proceeded to Norfolk, Virginia."

Dreadnought
11 Oct 05,, 13:43
Niceeeeeeee damage! Hmmm never even thought of posting for subs here. Interesting :biggrin:

Dreadnought
11 Oct 05,, 15:04
Thought this was cute..April 2003 The Noth Pole. USS Conneticut (SSN22) gets a surprise visitor looking down the periscope during exercises :biggrin:

Dreadnought
11 Oct 05,, 20:03
July 1945 as the IJN abandon Kure Naval Yards, planes from Task Force 38 of USN catches IJN cruiser Oyodo underway and torpedos her 8 times with several near misses.

Parihaka
11 Oct 05,, 22:07
Thought this was cute..April 2003 The Noth Pole. USS Conneticut (SSN22) gets a surprise visitor looking down the periscope during exercises :biggrin:
Where the hell did I leave my can opener!@#!

huh_what
11 Oct 05,, 23:23
IJN Yamato under air attack in the Inland Sea, march 1945
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g300000/g309662.jpg

huh_what
11 Oct 05,, 23:32
pics

sparten
12 Oct 05,, 02:17
Thought this was cute..April 2003 The Noth Pole. USS Conneticut (SSN22) gets a surprise visitor looking down the periscope during exercises
Sub Skipper: "hmmm what is my Sqaudron Commander doing looking down the periscope."

TopHatter
12 Oct 05,, 05:14
Thought this was cute..April 2003 The Noth Pole. USS Conneticut (SSN22) gets a surprise visitor looking down the periscope during exercises :biggrin:

That's the rudder actually :redface:

Dreadnought
12 Oct 05,, 12:59
Opps my bust..lol :redface:

sparten
17 Oct 05,, 18:03
HMS Eagle sinking

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/ships/Eagle_sinking_colour.jpg

Dreadnought
26 Oct 05,, 17:57
The USS Minneapolis loosing her bow to a Japanese torpedo at the Battle of Tassafaronga, Dec. 1942.

Dreadnought
26 Oct 05,, 18:36
SMS Derfflinger after Jutland. Note shell damage and burst gun. :eek:

Dreadnought
15 Nov 05,, 18:58
Iowa (BB61) Turrent two explosion during gunnery practice April 19, 1989. A very sad day in her history. :frown:

Dreadnought
22 Dec 05,, 19:03
A close up of Yamato taking heavy fire from US planes during her final sortie.

sparten
23 Dec 05,, 05:11
:frown:
Deserved better.

Bill
24 Dec 05,, 04:42
:frown:
Deserved better.

The IJS Yamato got exactly what she deserved.

TopHatter
24 Dec 05,, 17:19
The IJS Yamato got exactly what she deserved.
Yeah :frown:
A white elephant conceived and built during the coming of gnats, then held back until the gnats were ascendent. She could have seriously complicated the Guadalcanal naval battles. Just had to wait for the "Decisive Battle" though.

Sure would've liked to have seen her though. But since we can't...

You know what would be neat? A silhouette/profile of an Iowa-class superimposed over that of a Yamato-class.

sparten
24 Dec 05,, 19:47
At Guadacnal, well South Dakota would have been doomed, but since historically Washington was at point blank range, I think she would have been damamged beyond repair.

What I meant was that she deserved a better ending than the one she got, on a one way suicide trip, to be sent to the bottom on route. A much more fitting ending (for the Naval purist), would have been her going down main guns blazing against the US Battle fleet.

TopHatter
24 Dec 05,, 20:42
At Guadacnal, well South Dakota would have been doomed, but since historically Washington was at point blank range, I think she would have been damamged beyond repair.
Washington would have been seriously FUBAR'ed :frown:
Actually, that's wishful thinking. Washington would have been sunk.
South Dakota stood a better chance of surviving (from a protection POV), assuming she was able to slip away into the night.


What I meant was that she deserved a better ending than the one she got, on a one way suicide trip, to be sent to the bottom on route. A much more fitting ending (for the Naval purist), would have been her going down main guns blazing against the US Battle fleet.
Can't argue with that. Especially against Deyo's old battlewagons, it would have been a great fight. Although I wouldn't be placing any money on Yamato's main battery ROF.

sparten
25 Dec 05,, 10:49
Well the Americans had (if memory serves) 10 modern BB's ready at the time. Even leaving out the pre-North Carolina designs which were no pushovers. The Brits had serveral capital ships as well, including King George V and Duke of York (Scharnhorst's conquerer). So yeah, Yamato was doomed. The US BB's would have loved to get revenge for Pearl Harbor, the Brits for Prince of Wales and Repulse.

TopHatter
25 Dec 05,, 14:39
Well the Americans had (if memory serves) 10 modern BB's ready at the time. Even leaving out the pre-North Carolina designs which were no pushovers.
True enough, but those fast battleships were tied to the carriers with a leash.
I think particularly after the Battle of Samar, the USN wasn't letting them go anywhere.
If for no other reason than they carried the most powerful and effective AA battery of any ship in the world and the kamikaze were especially heavy during the Okinawa campaign.

In addition, the fast battleships were - at that point - almost useless as battleships operating in a line of battle. Their big-gun and appropriate tactical ship-handling skills were - to be blunt - subpar. Small wonder when you consider what they'd been doing for the past 2-3 years.
If you wanted battleships that were skilled in carrier formation AA protection, then there was none better in the world though.

Even Deyo's Task Force 54 would have to have been a bit cautious taking on that monster. Certainly no other battleships in the world had their big-gun experience. But their protection, speed and gunpower all suffered in a head-to-head comparison of Yamato's. In gunpower alone, she outranged Deyo's biggest guns by 3000 yards and most of Deyo's battleships by 8000 yards.
In addition, Deyo's battleships suffered from the same atrophied line of battle skills that the fast battleships did. They spent almost the entire war - with the exception of Surigao Strait, a vastly different tactical situation - plodding back and forth blasting huge chunks of island into the air.

"So what?" we say. "Deyo had EIGHT battleships against Yamato." True enough, but it would have been incredibly tragic if one of more the American battleships - Pearl Harbor survivors most of them - was heavily damaged or sunk when you consider the total cost of Mitcher's raid was 10 aircraft and 12 air crew.

sparten
25 Dec 05,, 17:49
Well the Deyo's force were a holdover from the old standard ship design. And you are right, in Naval Warfare the bigger gun always dominates, see the Renown's battle with the Scharnhost and Genisenau in 39. And yes the way Yamato was sunk was proper.

However, if it did come to a surface action, well I do believe that even the fast BB's would have been eqaul to it, no matter what. Both Washington and South Dakota had battle line experience. The Brits had KGV (Bismarck veteren) and of course the Duke of York. I also believe HMS Rodney was there (though she may have been with the Eastern fleet off Burma). The British battlewagons had recent exprience with the Italians in the Med (though I don't remember if HMS Warspite was in the Pacific in 45). And pre-war plans , both British and American were to fight a series of Jutlands against the Japanese. You will be familiar with the USN plans, the RN had the battle fleet trasporting to Singapore and engaing the Japanese off the Malacca Starits.

TopHatter
25 Dec 05,, 19:02
However, if it did come to a surface action, well I do believe that even the fast BB's would have been eqaul to it, no matter what.
I don't mean to give the impression that either Deyo's TF 54 or the fast battleships would have been unable to do the job. Far from it.
I'm just leery of the "Well of course they would have done the and sailed away into the sunset with maybe a few bruises but overall, peice of cake".


Both Washington and South Dakota had battle line experience I think it would be appropriate to say that only Washington had battle line experience. However, it was also a few years in the past. Skills atrophy if not practiced enough and at least one carrier admiral (Frederick Sherman IIRC) bluntly told his fast battleship skippers that he didn't care if they could shoot their 16-inch guns or not. His prime overriding concern was their AA proficiency.


The Brits had KGV (Bismarck veteren) and of course the Duke of York. I also believe HMS Rodney was there (though she may have been with the Eastern fleet off Burma).
I agree, I think the British were more ably prepared to fight a surface action with their experience in the Atlantic.
The problem is, the British Pacific Fleet would have gone within 500 miles of Yamato only over the dead bodies of the anglophobe USN admirals.

rickusn
25 Dec 05,, 22:26
"anglophobe USN admirals."

Thats an old wifes tale that has no basis in fact.

If anything the British constanly denigrated the US forces while overlooking their own faults and they had many. Including an inability to keep forces at sea for more than a coupla weeks at a time. Read somewhere recently that 28 consecututive days at sea was virtually unheard of in the RN. During a period when USN units could not only stay at sea but in combat for months at a time.

Ranks right up there with the German contention that US soldiers were not good fighters.

Just more nonsensical bashing of the US .

Note: That this is not something new.

Its been going on for over two-hundred years.

Personally Ive had enough of it.

Especially when ill-informed US citizens repeat such fallacies.

And no Im not an "anglophobe" in fact Ive written essays on the Royal Navy that have been well received in the UK.

But no matter.

On all discussion boards its bash the US in general and the USN in particular.

Just business as usual.

If you believe all the crap being written today you would think that Russia had won the Cold War. And if it had been a Hot war tehy would have crushed the US.

Revisionist history at its worst.

And for the present that China or India could kick our ass at any time. LOL

Alot of talk with nobody willing to put their life where there big fat mouths are.


KMA

TopHatter
26 Dec 05,, 00:09
"anglophobe USN admirals."

Thats an old wifes tale that has no basis in fact.
COMINCH Earnest King was not an anglophobe? :confused:

sparten
26 Dec 05,, 06:12
Read somewhere recently that 28 consecututive days at sea was virtually unheard of in the RN. During a period when USN units could not only stay at sea but in combat for months at a time.
All due respect sir, but the RN was made for the ETO, a completely different area from the Pacific. And unlike the USN the RN had (at the start of the war at least) bases all over which could house their fleet. Why spend so many days at sea when you can make life easier for yourself and have forward basing? 28 days fighting, I was under the impression that after a couple of weeks the US forces would withraw to a rear area to replenish. The RN had bases where it could do that.

Not intended to "bash" the US at all sir. ;)

Dreadnought
27 Dec 05,, 02:30
According to a book I have been reviewing "The World Encyclopedia of Battleships"(Peter Hore) When Yamato sortied into the East China Sea with one cruiser and six destroyers in her group the U.S. opted for plan "B" and did it with Navy planes from the carriers of the Fifth Fleet instead of using the battleships. The original plan according to this book had the USS Wisconsin and another Iowa class sister (un named) along with two heavy cruisers (un named) in her group on stand by to engage at a planned distance to maximze the velocity of their shells in what the US Navy figured would have certainly doomed Yamatos group (US had an entiree force not far away so they had plenty of ships to choose from including more battleships).

Sinking the Yamato using carrier based planes instead of the battleships was already a proven strategy as Navy planes from Task Force 38 had done a year earlier when Musashi (2nd of Yamato class) was sank in the Visayan Sea south of Luzon.

TopHatter
27 Dec 05,, 03:05
The original plan according to this book had the USS Wisconsin and another Iowa class sister (un named) along with two heavy cruisers (un named) in her group on stand by to engage at a planned distance to maximze the velocity of their shells in what the US Navy figured would have certainly doomed Yamatos group (US had an entiree force not far away so they had plenty of ships to choose from including more battleships).
I wonder what sources this gent is using.
Everything I read said that Spruance's first thought/option was Deyo's older, slower battle line and plan B was Mitscher as stated.
In fact, Spruance wanted Deyo's battleships but Mitscher jumped the gun a bit (prepping the airstrike before getting confirmation from Spruance) on the somewhat slower to react Deyo and radioed Spruance something to the effect of "Are you going to take them or should I?" Spruance replied "You take them" and off they went.

*Edit: Wikipedia's article also states that the fast battleships were "assembled" in case the air-strikes didn't succeed. I'm still not convinced that the carrier admirals would have allowed their biggest and best AA assets to be sent off after Yamato when the kamikaze were as thick as locusts of Okinawa.
On the other hand, Halsey considered forming an indepedent fast battleship task force (under Lee) during Leyte Gulf, though this was JUST as the kamikaze were starting.


as Navy planes from Task Force 38 had done a year earlier when Musashi (2nd of Yamato class) was sank in the Visayan Sea south of Luzon.
Is it called the Visayan sea now? :confused:

sparten
27 Dec 05,, 09:12
The Fast BB's would have been better than Deyos force, only the Colorado had guns which could threaten the Yamato, the rest of the Fleet had 14" which were actually less powerful than the 12"/50 of the Alaska Class Large/Battlecruiser.

This raises the question, how much did the Allies actually know about the yamato? I have read articles that the US intelligence estimate at the start of the Okinawa campaign did not rule out 18" main battery, but believed it to be a 16"/50. If Spruence had known/beleived the part about 18"/45 than I believe he would have sent the Iowas after the monster, which is why I am more inclined to accept Wikipedia's story.

Dreadnought
27 Dec 05,, 14:08
In June 1944, with the torpedo damage repaired, Musashi took part in the Battle of the Philippine Sea. Her next, and last, major operation was the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in which the Japanese surface navy made a final major effort to repulse the U.S. drive into the Western Pacific.

On 24 October 1944, while en route to the prospective battle area off the Leyte landing beaches, Musashi and her consorts were attacked by hundreds of U.S. Navy carrier aircraft. In this Battle of the Sibuyan Sea, she was hit by some nineteen torpedoes and seventeen bombs. Though her heavy protection withstood this massive damage to a degree probably unsurpassed by any other contemporary warship, Musashi capsized and sank about four hours after she received her last hit.
A link to the story about the Musashi sinking in the Visayan Sea.
http://www.combinedfleet.com/musashi.htm

This was what I found from what the Navy had on file. So TH I guess they had different names for the same place in some cases? Strange how some books note certain points while others completely contridict others.:confused: Other articles and books ive read called it the Sibuyan Sea.

Ok this map of the Phillipines shows both Sibuyan Sea and Visayan Sea both in close proximity to one another. So I guess its a matter of ones perspective at the time of the article or book. :confused:

The book does not tell how far Musashi had steamed after being attacked before sinking. Although IMO she couldnt have gotten too far given the damage she took. I cant seem to find any "net" stuff over her wreckage ever being discovered or photographed in either sea. :confused:

Its my guess when they find her they will have to clear up alot of these stories. Till then I guess i'll continue reading all the different variations. :)

Dreadnought
27 Dec 05,, 14:58
IJN Musashi looking "SOL" and going under. :biggrin:

TopHatter
27 Dec 05,, 17:49
The Fast BB's would have been better than Deyos force, only the Colorado had guns which could threaten the Yamato, the rest of the Fleet had 14" which were actually less powerful than the 12"/50 of the Alaska Class Large/Battlecruiser.
Oh no question about it, the fast battleships were better armed, armored (MUCH better protection in fact) and obviously faster than Deyo's force.

My concern was their lack of practice and - I'll say it - skill in using their 16-inch guns. Their AA prowess was beyond reproach. Small wonder given how much drill and battle they'd had to hone them.

And don't forget, that there was actually all three of the Colorado-class battleships were present with their 16-inch guns. ;)


This raises the question, how much did the Allies actually know about the yamato? I have read articles that the US intelligence estimate at the start of the Okinawa campaign did not rule out 18" main battery, but believed it to be a 16"/50. If Spruence had known/beleived the part about 18"/45 than I believe he would have sent the Iowas after the monster, which is why I am more inclined to accept Wikipedia's story.
That's a darn good question and I've read sources that say Yamato's gun size was not known until after the way, but then I saw another source that said that planners of the attack (Deyo's) were warned about her 18-inch guns.

TopHatter
27 Dec 05,, 17:53
Dreadnought,
I'm willing to bet that she was actually sunk in the Visayan Sea, though the battle was called Sibuyan Sea.

Kind of the like the Battle of Bunker Hill mostly taking place on Breed's Hill.

Dreadnought
27 Dec 05,, 18:27
Oh no question about it, the fast battleships were better armed, armored (MUCH better protection in fact) and obviously faster than Deyo's force.

My concern was their lack of practice and - I'll say it - skill in using their 16-inch guns. Their AA prowess was beyond reproach. Small wonder given how much drill and battle they'd had to hone them.

And don't forget, that there was actually all three of the Colorado-class battleships were present with their 16-inch guns. ;)

That's a darn good question and I've read sources that say Yamato's gun size was not known until after the way, but then I saw another source that said that planners of the attack (Deyo's) were warned about her 18-inch guns.

Which version of that answer would you like? I have several books that give several opposing views as to what the U.S. knew about Japans and Germany's capital ships and the security that surrounded them at that time. :biggrin:

TopHatter
27 Dec 05,, 19:10
Which version of that answer would you like? I have several books that give several opposing views as to what the U.S. knew about Japans and Germany's capital ships and the security that surrounded them at that time. :biggrin:
Exactly! :confused:

Sparten,
An excellent book for the Yamato's final mission is "A Glorious Way To Die" by Russell Spurr.

Dreadnought
29 Dec 05,, 16:02
Ok a final few damage posts..These are in relation to my post #116 colision between Leipzig and Price Eugen and post #121 Prince Eugen losing her bow to the British sub Trident.

This damage caused by Prince Eugen and Leipzig colliding this is the Princes bow shortly afterwards.

Dreadnought
29 Dec 05,, 16:06
These next two are of Prince Eugens stern before collapsing and after collapsing due to a torpedo strike from the British sub Trident off of Norway.

Dreadnought
29 Dec 05,, 16:09
And this final one is Prince Eugen's last moments following Operation Crossroads.

sparten
31 Dec 05,, 11:54
End of the line for Yamato

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h62000/h62582.jpg

huh_what
04 Jan 06,, 09:35
more polar bears

Bill
05 Jan 06,, 22:32
An Iowa would wipe the seas with a Yamato.

It aint even close.

sparten
06 Jan 06,, 09:41
An Iowa would wipe the seas with a Yamato.

It aint even close.
Getting ahead of youself old chap.
:)

Bill
06 Jan 06,, 16:22
Getting ahead of youself old chap.
:)

Me no think so.

sparten
06 Jan 06,, 16:33
If you had said Kongo', I would have believed you. Ditto, the Fuso's. Iowa had a fair chance against Yamato, and vice versa. Yamato had superior guns (except at extreme range) while Iowa had superior speed and fire control. I think it would come down to crews and while Yamato no doubt had the best people in the Emperors Navy, USN crews were a cut above the rest, even the RN.

Bill
06 Jan 06,, 17:07
The Yamato did NOT, repeat, DID NOT, have superior guns vs the Iowa.
Second, the Iowa was vastly better protected, much faster, had a greater rate of fire, and had significantly better fire control.

Iowa vs Yamato is a one sided rout, ESPECIALLY if it's a night engagement.

TopHatter
07 Jan 06,, 04:09
Iowa vs Yamato is a one sided rout, ESPECIALLY if it's a night engagement.
That I'll definitely buy. There is no way any Japanese heavy warship during 1944-1945 was going to take on a brand new Iowa-class battleship. Radar and fire-control would have meant 16-inch calling cards slamming into the IJN ship every 5-10 seconds. All the while, the IJN ship would be nearly blind with her primitive radar, particularly on a moonless or cloudy night.
The Iowa would have to really screw things up from the get-go and the Japanese ship would have to be shot through with luck for any other conclusion to be reached.

A daytime Iowa-Yamato engagement though, I'm not entirely certain that it would be such a cakewalk. A victory in the end? Sure.

Dreadnought
09 Jan 06,, 16:36
That I'll definitely buy. There is no way any Japanese heavy warship during 1944-1945 was going to take on a brand new Iowa-class battleship. Radar and fire-control would have meant 16-inch calling cards slamming into the IJN ship every 5-10 seconds. All the while, the IJN ship would be nearly blind with her primitive radar, particularly on a moonless or cloudy night.
The Iowa would have to really screw things up from the get-go and the Japanese ship would have to be shot through with luck for any other conclusion to be reached.

A daytime Iowa-Yamato engagement though, I'm not entirely certain that it would be such a cakewalk. A victory in the end? Sure.


IMO with the newer age FCR the Iowa class had employed she would have had Yamato bracketed long before they knew she was even there. Especially in a night confrontation her only hope would either have been a one on one confrontation at distance beyond the Iowas range or if she could get air support. Of which neither of the two happened. My money is still on the Iowa Class. Yamato would have taken one hell of a beating though however she couldnt run from the Iowa either (33knot/27knot) or out manuver her as well so it comes down to the turrent captains,CinC and the helmesman under direction of her captain and ofcoarse damage control which by chance lacked greatly in the IJN for pretty much the entirety of the war (they lost many savable ships due to this training problem). Also if Iowa inflicts the damage they say she could on their primitive FCR the Japs would be forced to go to "local" control thus reducing their capacity per turrent per gun to wage any kind of decisive battle. All the while under assult from 9 16"/50's I dont believe they would have been able to yield any tangable hits to either sink the Iowa or diminish her gun fire capacity. Furthermore at the time of Yamato's sortie (April 1945) how many skilled sailors could Japan have left after the beating their ships took and pilot/planes wise in the battles before this encounter opened. Either way the Yamato wasnt taken as a war prize by the Allied forces so in some meaningfull way they did win one for their cause even know it was futile to attempt to hold off the Allied Forces any longer with their military means.

sparten
12 Jan 06,, 08:25
HMS Hood blowing up (painting)

http://www.mts.net/~iceman7/images/pow2.jpg

sparten
12 Jan 06,, 20:13
HMS Barham after being struck by a U-Boat


Magazine bursting :eek: :eek:

RustyBattleship
13 Jan 06,, 22:42
Wow Big Mamie (Massachusetts BB59) beat her up pretty bad. I still wish we would have built the original South Dakota class as planned with 12 16" rifles even know they say she would never have been able to transit the Panama Canal

Haven't got time to go through all the postings on this thread. But I believe you mean the MONTANA class instead of South Dakota class. The MONTANAs were to have Four triple turrets of 16"/50 caliber guns. At one time Three triple turrets of 18.2"/45 caliber guns were considered but the 16"/50s on the Iowas proved so reliable and so accurate the decision was made to stick with them ("If it ain't broke - don't fix it").

You may have been confused with original drawings of the North Carolina class that was to have Three Quadruple turrets of 14" guns. When all the Battleship drawings were sent to Long Beach Naval Shipyard in 1982 for the reactivation of the Iowas, included was a box of 35mm microfilm of the North Carolina showing that gun arrangement.

As for the destruction you see on Jean Bart, almost all of that above waterline was done by aerial bombs. Massachuessets use AP shells that buried deep into the ship. But they had a problem of the base plug fuse dropping out along the way so many did not explode. HOWEVER, one of the "dud" 16" APs did go all the way through the aft end of the Jean Bart and cracked her stern casting. As Jean Bart settled in the water (after more APs drilled holes through her hull to take on water) her own weight broke the stern casting off. But Mamie was given credit for sinking her anyway.

A couple of years ago at a Model Train Show my club was hosting, a person at the next table, selling K-Line model trains (I was running my portable HO scale layout) claimed to have been a crewman aboard Mamie during the Casablanca battle. He also listed a number of other French ships she sunk including some submarines that were still in their pens.

Anybody have a list of those ships?

Dreadnought
13 Jan 06,, 22:55
This is just a clip posted on Big Mamies page.

At Casablanca, the immediate answer to the question of French resistance was answered just before seven o'clock, when the French fired on American landing craft. By 0704, under fire from the shore battery at El Hank and Battleship Jean Bart, the Massachusetts fired the first American 16-inch gun salvos of World War II in anger. In sixteen minutes she fired nine main battery salvos, scoring five hits. Heavily damaged, the Jean Bart was silenced. Four nearby freighters, a destroyer, and a floating dry-dock were also sunk in the harbor during this exchange.

Battleship Massachusetts also returned fire on Battery El Hank. French submarines, destroyers, and a light cruiser sortied from Casablanca to engage the American forces. Loaded exclusively with armor-piercing main battery ammunition, she was not well fitted to engage shore batteries and smaller ships. However, between 1000 and 1030, the Massachusetts sank Destroyer Boulonnais and shared the sinking of Destroyer Fougueux. The Massachusetts was hit once forward by Battery El Hank and dodged four very well-aimed torpedoes. The Massachusetts expended 786 rounds of sixteen-inch ammunition during the Battle of Casablanca, about 60 percent of her magazines.

The French fought gallantly and well. They sustained very substantial losses to their Casablanca forces, four destroyers and eight submarines sunk, with four other ships disabled.

Dreadnought
13 Jan 06,, 22:58
Haven't got time to go through all the postings on this thread. But I believe you mean the MONTANA class instead of South Dakota class. The MONTANAs were to have Four triple turrets of 16"/50 caliber guns. At one time Three triple turrets of 18.2"/45 caliber guns were considered but the 16"/50s on the Iowas proved so reliable and so accurate the decision was made to stick with them ("If it ain't broke - don't fix it").

You may have been confused with original drawings of the North Carolina class that was to have Three Quadruple turrets of 14" guns. When all the Battleship drawings were sent to Long Beach Naval Shipyard in 1982 for the reactivation of the Iowas, included was a box of 35mm microfilm of the North Carolina showing that gun arrangement.

As for the destruction you see on Jean Bart, almost all of that above waterline was done by aerial bombs. Massachuessets use AP shells that buried deep into the ship. But they had a problem of the base plug fuse dropping out along the way so many did not explode. HOWEVER, one of the "dud" 16" APs did go all the way through the aft end of the Jean Bart and cracked her stern casting. As Jean Bart settled in the water (after more APs drilled holes through her hull to take on water) her own weight broke the stern casting off. But Mamie was given credit for sinking her anyway.

A couple of years ago at a Model Train Show my club was hosting, a person at the next table, selling K-Line model trains (I was running my portable HO scale layout) claimed to have been a crewman aboard Mamie during the Casablanca battle. He also listed a number of other French ships she sunk including some submarines that were still in their pens.

Anybody have a list of those ships?

Mr Landgraff A link to the 1920's South Dakota class. :)
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/49.htm

RustyBattleship
14 Jan 06,, 00:21
Mr Landgraff A link to the 1920's South Dakota class. :)
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/49.htm

An interesting link, thank you. However I was thinking of the South Dakota class that was actually built and served in WW II, not the earlier concepts.

And I know for a fact that the North Carolina was to have three turrets of four 14" guns each (12 guns total) as I personally reviewed the micro-film, printed out copies of it, had reproducibles made of it and donated them all to the North Carolina itself. Surprising how much PR can be sneaked in on an open ended Job Order number.

Ah! Those were the days before I was eligible for Medicare.

Shipwreck
17 Jan 06,, 00:23
A couple of years ago at a Model Train Show my club was hosting, a person at the next table, selling K-Line model trains (I was running my portable HO scale layout) claimed to have been a crewman aboard Mamie during the Casablanca battle. He also listed a number of other French ships she sunk including some submarines that were still in their pens.

Anybody have a list of those ships?

Ships sunk in Casablanca Harbor, 8 November 1942 :

Merchant / Passenger Ships :
* San Pietro
* Porthos
* Lipari
* Savoie
* Ile d'Ouessant

Submarines :
* Amphitrite
* Oreade
* Psyche

Others :
* St Blaise (prison-ship)
* Main Floating Drydock


Notes :

1. Not all ships above sunk by BB-59.

2. French surface combattants later committed against US naval forces and sunk during / after action not included in the list.

3. Damaged Auxiliary Floating Drydock scuttled by the French not included in the list.

Parihaka
17 Jan 06,, 01:43
Tirpitz


http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h59000/h59668.jpg

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/Tirpitz_OpTungsten.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/images/tirpitz.jpg

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/credits.htm

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Squadrons/tirpcapz1.JPG

Dreadnought
17 Jan 06,, 18:30
Curiously enough they say on her site that there are still large pieces of her laying on the bottom after she was cut up.

TopHatter
15 May 06,, 03:35
USS Ingersoll (DD-990) after colliding with a civilian tanker

DaveinCoalinga
27 Feb 08,, 20:10
When I view this thread, why are all the pictures scrambled up?

Shipwreck
27 Feb 08,, 20:15
why are all the pictures scrambled up?

Battle damage !!!!!!!! :biggrin:

Parihaka
27 Feb 08,, 21:59
God damn it, all the photos I had of the Jean Bart are gone:mad:

T_igger_cs_30
27 Feb 08,, 22:04
Battle damage !!!!!!!! :biggrin:

Classic LOL :biggrin:

sheep21
02 Mar 08,, 22:43
at least 80% of the pics here are gone its a pity, they all sounded really interesting.

Great thread anyway!

TopHatter
03 Mar 08,, 00:29
at least 80% of the pics here are gone its a pity, they all sounded really interesting.


When I view this thread, why are all the pictures scrambled up?

Server problem awhile back :frown:

I'll see if I have any of mine still on my hard drive.

Broncazonk
01 Feb 10,, 00:50
What happened here? Great thread, can't see 90% of the images.

Bronc

Gun Grape
01 Feb 10,, 01:08
Almost 2 years old.

And asked the same question that was being batted around back then.

Reading is fundamental

Server problem

In before the mods locked it

Die kittie Die

Dreadnought
01 Feb 10,, 20:51
Ugh, the Necro god himself has spoken.:redface::))