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View Full Version : Canadian soldiers taking the brunt in Afghansitan when compared to other NATO nations



Canmoore
18 Sep 06,, 22:08
Canadian soldiers in afghanistan are three times more likely than british soldiers to be killed. And four and a half times more likely than American soldiers.

This report also indicates that a Canadian soldier in Afghanistan is six times more likely to be killed, than an american soldier in Iraq.

"In comparison, Germany — which, like Canada, has slightly more than 2,000 troops in Afghanistan — has suffered no deaths from hostile action since February and only six since 2001."

click (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/18/report-soldiers.html)

Canadian foriegn affairs minister Peter MacKay has called on other NATO nations to do more.

"I think that there's clearly NATO countries that can do more," Peter MacKay said at a joint news conference in Halifax with his Australian counterpart, Alexander Downer

click (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/18/mackay-downer.html)

Officer of Engineers
18 Sep 06,, 22:25
The brutal honesty is that we are not ready for that mission.

PubFather
18 Sep 06,, 22:27
The brutal honesty is that we are not ready for that mission.
It terms of what OoE? Equipment/training or numbers in the ground for the mission you are being asked to carry out?

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 04:57
I attribute this to the fact that since the 80's our military has been contracting, shrinking. The Liberals under chretien cut the military budget to clear the deficit. However this left our military on life support. Ive heard military personell who just want better boots....thats how bad it had gotten.

I used to work in a base, and i remember looking at the military vehicles, the large trucks parked on the cracked and crumbling parking lots, they were basically antiques, rusting away

When i was just a kid i lived not to far away from the airfield, i remember going and watching the planes take off towing gliders. Now the airfield is unusable, with potholes and grass growing in the cracks.

While working on this base, I had a sence that the Canadian military was there, but not really there. They trained to wage war, but the sence that the military would ever go to war, just wasnt there. The military had just degraded to a point where i no longer took it seriously.

I grew up on, and around this particular base, i remember the stickers that you had to have on your car to enter the base, i remember the guards at the checkpoint when entering the base and how you had to stop and give your name and where and what you were doing on base. It seemed very serious then, but then it stopped.
The checkpoint was empty, no more guards, you could drive into the base and no one would even know that you were there. ...All in the name of cutting costs

I remember when 911 happened, and there were guards in the checkpoint building again, but only for a month, then it was empty again.

It was only a year after 911 that i moved away from that particular area, and i have lost contact with the comings and goings of base life. But there is a sence now, that the military has purpose, it seems more serious now.

But all those years of decay i think left a mark on the military. And afghanistan is showing it. A month ago a mechanic in afghanistan asked the Minister of Defence when the new trucks will be arriving, because "its taking alot of spit and bubblegum" to keep the ones we have, on the road.

Our military was brought to the brink, and while it is now, starting to come away from the brink, it is thrown into a dangerous mission, a mission where our allies are not helping us. This MUST be playing a role, in why we are sustaining so many casualties.

Officer of Engineers
19 Sep 06,, 05:06
It terms of what OoE? Equipment/training or numbers in the ground for the mission you are being asked to carry out?

In terms that we have no idea what we're doing. This is an insurgency and we suck at it. We don't have the experience, we don't have the know how. Hell, we don't even have the books.

In a conventional fight, we win. Our casualties are extremely light despite what this report suggests. The Taliban's are extremely heavy also despite what the report suggests. However, we are seen to be hurting while they hide their hurt.

And this is not what was envisioned. What was envisioned was the ANA taking the lead with NATO in support. The few times the Canadians operated with the ANA, they were friendly fire disasters. Operationally, it was far more effective for the Canadians to go it alone - going it alone with only 2200 troops ain't exactly ideal.

We can show all the Taliban bodies we want, it ain't going to show the folks we're winning. In the meantime, we're seeing families crying over our Fallen. We see the Taliban cheering and screaming for vengence at theirs.

We can win the conventional fight. Nine dead versus 500 ain't exactly a fight between equals. But the hearts and mind fight, we're not doing that very well.

Bluesman
19 Sep 06,, 05:13
In terms that we have no idea what we're doing. This is an insurgency and we suck at it. We don't have the experience, we don't have the know how. Hell, we don't even have the books.

In a conventional fight, we win. Our casualties are extremely light despite what this report suggests. The Taliban's are extremely heavy also despite what the report suggests. However, we are seen to be hurting while they hide their hurt.

And this is not what was envisioned. What was envisioned was the ANA taking the lead with NATO in support. The few times the Canadians operated with the ANA, they were friendly fire disasters. Operationally, it was far more effective for the Canadians to go it alone - going it alone with only 2200 troops ain't exactly ideal.

We can show all the Taliban bodies we want, it ain't going to show the folks we're winning. In the meantime, we're seeing families crying over our Fallen. We see the Taliban cheering and screaming for vengence at theirs.

We can win the conventional fight. Nine dead versus 500 ain't exactly a fight between equals. But the hearts and mind fight, we're not doing that very well.

Brutally honest appraisal.

For the record, and I know I don't have to tell you something you already know - I, for one, appreciate the hell out of Harper taking this up, and the Canadians pitching in like good'uns. You're right, this is NOT the ideal mission for the force as it is currently structured, and it calls to mind Rummy's very true statement that you go to war with the force you have. It's not fair, it's not easy, but dammit, Canada is THERE, and I'd just like to thank the ones that are soldiering right now, and the ones that laid down their lives while they served.

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 05:19
The canadian media isnt helping either. They are blowing this way out of proportion. During this countries beloved peackeeping missions, we were also loosing lots of men, but you NEVER saw the same coverage that there is today.

Today we are fighting a war, all of a sudden people think that because we havnt been in an official war since the 50's that Canada is somehow a nation of peackeepers and not war fighters. So seeing coffins with the maple leaf drapped over every week isnt really helping the homefront, which inturn affects the moral of the soldiers fighting.

And then lunatics like Jack Layton have the audacity today, in the face of having 4 soldiers killed while they were handing candy out to children, to say that this conflict isnt helping the afghan people, and we are just making it worse. How does he sleep at night?

Bluesman
19 Sep 06,, 05:21
There was a Canadian corporal that served with me when I first came to CENTCOM as a civilian contractor. We both worked in Open Source Intelligence, and became friendly with each other.

I'm ashamed to say I forgot his name, but I knew who was being referred to when we got word that he'd been killed in Afghanistan. He was a volunteer for the mission, and had to get a special permission to serve two consecutive 'away' tours. It was granted, he went...and he died there.

He was the most affable, jovial, good-natured guy, carried a bit of weight, and maybe wasn't the first draft pick for the team. But he was smart, worked hard, and loved his country. I liked him most of all because he was so obviously taken with the 'States, and wanted to make a good impression of his country.

In my opinion, he upheld the reputation that the Canadian Army made for itself in Flanders fields, at Normandy, and along the badly-named DMZ in Korea. Canada misses a good man, and I am more than a bit sad myself when I think about him.

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 05:25
Hey officer will you be going to the hill this friday at noon to support the mission and the troops?

I know for dam sure that i will be there. I really hope that this pans out well, if we have like 10, 20 even 30 thousand people show up it would be amazing. I desperately hope that it isnt only 3-6 thousand who show up. That would be disasterous.

But dammit i will be there.

Bluesman
19 Sep 06,, 05:31
Holy smoke. I found that old post, where I wrote about him.

Check it out. (http://worldaffairsboard.com/showpost.php?p=181267&postcount=52)

Made me even MORE sad.:frown:

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 05:35
That is sad, there are many stories like his. There was a reservist killed a few months back, he had served in Bosnia, and he was on his second Afghanistan deployment. And he was killed. Talk about dedication.

Officer of Engineers
19 Sep 06,, 05:39
We CANNOT abandon the fight. The Canadian Forces WILL NOT abandon the fight. If we were the Soviets, we parade those dead Taliban like trophies. We've won a major victory. The Taliban is going to go broke this winter. We've cut off a big source of their drug money.

We and the Brits have given the NGOs their chance. The fight is now theirs.

I frankly could not care less what Jack Layton says. Rick Hilliar runs the show. Canada gave Her Word under the Liberals. Canada kept Her Word under the Conservatives. The NDP don't know squat about the word Honour.

Yes, Canmoore, I'm going to be there, along with everybody who is allowed to go from 101.

Officer of Engineers
19 Sep 06,, 05:41
Gentlemen,

This is NOT the time for sadness. This is a time for Pride. These men MADE A DIFFERENCE. They've done Canada proud. They've done us Proud. If I have to remember them, I will remember them with pride.

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 05:42
Amen

Bluesman
19 Sep 06,, 05:46
Do me a favor tomorrow - in your mind, think that we're both there. If there's a quiet part of the ceremony, think of a Canadian Army corporal and a USAF master sergeant one pace right flank rear of where you're standing. Okay?

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 05:47
Will do. Im going to bring my huge Canadian flag. Im trying to bring other people along with me, everyone i know has to work..hell even i have to work, but some things are just more important. So my boss can shove it up his ass if he doesnt like it, i wont be coming in to work friday morning...

Bluesman
19 Sep 06,, 05:50
Oh, it's Friday - I mis-read your post.

I'll think of you both, too, while you're there.

Officer of Engineers
19 Sep 06,, 05:56
Do me a favor tomorrow - in your mind, think that we're both there. If there's a quiet part of the ceremony, think of a Canadian Army corporal and a USAF master sergeant one pace right flank rear of where you're standing. Okay?

I will do better, MSgt, I will lay a poppy on the Tomb of the Unknown for you ... In the Corporal's Honour. I will lay one myself.

lemontree
19 Sep 06,, 06:42
In terms that we have no idea what we're doing. This is an insurgency and we suck at it. We don't have the experience, we don't have the know how. Hell, we don't even have the books.

In a conventional fight, we win. Our casualties are extremely light despite what this report suggests. The Taliban's are extremely heavy also despite what the report suggests. However, we are seen to be hurting while they hide their hurt.

And this is not what was envisioned. What was envisioned was the ANA taking the lead with NATO in support. The few times the Canadians operated with the ANA, they were friendly fire disasters. Operationally, it was far more effective for the Canadians to go it alone - going it alone with only 2200 troops ain't exactly ideal.

We can show all the Taliban bodies we want, it ain't going to show the folks we're winning. In the meantime, we're seeing families crying over our Fallen. We see the Taliban cheering and screaming for vengence at theirs.

We can win the conventional fight. Nine dead versus 500 ain't exactly a fight between equals. But the hearts and mind fight, we're not doing that very well.
All that NATO could have done was allow us (India) into Afghanistan. We would have led the charge for free.

-{SpoonmaN}-
19 Sep 06,, 07:14
All that NATO could have done was allow us (India) into Afghanistan. We would have led the charge for free.

Yeah, cause I'm sure Pakistan would have loved that...

Officer of Engineers
19 Sep 06,, 07:27
All that NATO could have done was allow us (India) into Afghanistan. We would have led the charge for free.
It is not your time, Captain. It is not your time. It is ours.

lemontree
19 Sep 06,, 09:12
Yeah, cause I'm sure Pakistan would have loved that...
Pleasing the country whose intelligence agency was directly involved in 9/11 is what has led to the current situation.

veera8
19 Sep 06,, 13:16
america and NATO are relatively new to the ideology of terroism ....their first smell of terroism came on 9/11 ...they are still amateur learners in this art .......
the day is not so far when they will get the enlightment as whom is the root cause and back bone behind all the terroist activiites in afganistan( need i name that pathetic country )

lemontree
19 Sep 06,, 13:27
america and NATO are relatively new to the ideology of terroism ....their first smell of terroism came on 9/11 ...they are still amateur learners in this art .......
the day is not so far when they will get the enlightment as whom is the root cause and back bone behind all the terroist activiites in afganistan( need i name that pathetic country )
That is an unfair comment considering that the US/NATO has delt with terrorism in one way or the other since its inception.
However, this time the enemy is a nuke armed 'friend', who is being molly-codled. Is that the correct policy or not? Only time can tell that.
The US intelligence knows everything, just because it appears that they are being fooled does not mean that they are dumb.

veera8
19 Sep 06,, 13:45
That is an unfair comment considering that the US/NATO has delt with terrorism in one way or the other since its inception.
However, this time the enemy is a nuke armed 'friend', who is being molly-codled. Is that the correct policy or not? Only time can tell that.
The US intelligence knows everything, just because it appears that they are being fooled does not mean that they are dumb.

If u consider date of Inception of terroism as 9/11,u are totally flawed..where was US or NATO when INDIA was constanlty fighting terroism in kashmir (right from 1947) ,khalistani movement e.t.c ......

In one or other way we have been battling terroism for more than 4 decades . US had the first terroist attack on its soil on 9/11 ...
by all means we are far more experienced in this field than US or NATO .....

lemontree
19 Sep 06,, 13:55
If u consider date of Inception of terroism as 9/11,u are totally flawed...
veera,
They have been targets for small or big terror groups since the late 1960s.

Repatriated Canuck
19 Sep 06,, 14:48
When I come home I'm rejoining the reserves and going to go over or I'll regret that I didn't do more. What's a year or so of my life eh?

Will not go Reg Force now though as I have someone else to think of and can't make her live in Wainright or hell even Edmonton.

Ray
19 Sep 06,, 17:50
You are right Lemontree, this should have been our call!

Wooglin
19 Sep 06,, 17:55
If u consider date of Inception of terroism as 9/11,u are totally flawed..where was US or NATO when INDIA was constanlty fighting terroism in kashmir (right from 1947) ,khalistani movement e.t.c ......

In one or other way we have been battling terroism for more than 4 decades . US had the first terroist attack on its soil on 9/11 ...
by all means we are far more experienced in this field than US or NATO .....

First U.S. Aircraft Hijacked, May 1, 1961: Puerto Rican born Antuilo Ramierez Ortiz forced at gunpoint a National Airlines plane to fly to Havana, Cuba, where he was given asylum.

Ambassador to Guatemala Assassinated, August 28, 1968: U.S. Ambassador to Guatemala John Gordon Mein was murdered by a rebel faction when gunmen forced his official car off the road in Guatemala City and raked the vehicle with gunfire.

Ambassador to Japan Attacked, July 30, 1969: U.S. Ambassador to Japan A.H. Meyer was attacked by a knife-wielding Japanese citizen.

Ambassador to Brazil Kidnapped, September 3, 1969: U.S. Ambassador to Brazil Charles Burke Elbrick was kidnapped by the Marxist revolutionary group MR-8.

U.S. Agency for International Development Adviser Kidnapped, July 31, 1970: In Montevideo, Uruguay, the Tupamaros terrorist group kidnapped AID Police adviser Dan Mitrione; his body was found on August 10.

Ambassador to Sudan Assassinated, March 2, 1973: U.S. Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel and other diplomats were assassinated at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum by members of the Black September organization.

Consul General in Mexico Kidnapped, May 4, 1973: U.S. Consul General in Guadalajara Terrence Leonhardy was kidnapped by members of the People’s Revolutionary Armed Forces.

Ambassador to Cyprus Assassinated, August 19, 1974: U.S. Ambassador to Cyprus Rodger P. Davies and his Greek Cypriot secretary were shot and killed by snipers during a demonstration outside the U.S. Embassy in Nicosia.

Domestic Terrorism, January 27-29, 1975: Puerto Rican nationalists bombed a Wall Street bar, killing four and injuring 60; two days later, the Weather Underground claims responsibility for an explosion in a bathroom at the U.S. Department of State in Washington.

Assassination of Former Chilean Diplomat, September 21, 1976: Exiled Chilean Foreign Minister Orlando Letelier was killed by a car-bomb in Washington.

Ambassador to Afghanistan Assassinated, February 14, 1979: Four Afghans kidnapped U.S. Ambassador Adolph Dubs in Kabul and demanded the release of various "religious figures." Dubs was killed, along with four alleged terrorists, when Afghan police stormed the hotel room where he was being held.

Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979: After President Carter agreed to admit the Shah of Iran into the US, Iranian radicals seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. Thirteen hostages were soon released, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981

.S. Installation Bombing, August 31, 1981: The Red Army exploded a bomb at the U.S. Air Force Base at Ramstein, West Germany.

Murder of Missionaries, December 4, 1981: Three American nuns and one lay missionary were found murdered outside San Salvador, El Salvador. They were killed by members of the National Guard, and the killers are currently in prison.

Colombian Hostage-taking, April 8, 1983: A U.S. citizen was seized by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and held for ransom.

Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people, including the CIA’s Middle East director, were killed and 120 were injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Naval Officer Assassinated in El Salvador, May 25, 1983: A U.S. Navy officer was assassinated by the Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front.

Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed the U.S. compound, killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed when a 400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Naval Officer Assassinated in Greece, November 15, 1983: A U.S. Navy officer was shot by the November 17 terrorist group in Athens, Greece, while his car was stopped at a traffic light.

Kidnapping of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984: The Islamic Jihad kidnapped and later murdered Political Officer William Buckley in Beirut, Lebanon. Other U.S. citizens not connected to the U.S. government were seized over a succeeding two-year period.

Restaurant Bombing in Spain, April 12, 1984: Eighteen U.S. servicemen were killed and 83 people were injured in a bomb attack on a restaurant near a U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain.

Kidnapping of U.S. Officials in Mexico, February 7, 1985: Under the orders of narcotrafficker Rafael Caro Quintero, Drug Enforcement Administration agent Enrique Camarena Salazar and his pilot were kidnapped, tortured and executed.

TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were held for seventeen days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.

Attack on a Restaurant in El Salvador, June 19, 1985: Members of the FMLN (Farabundo Marti National Liberation Front) fired on a restaurant in the Zona Rosa district of San Salvador, killing four Marine Security Guards assigned to the U.S. Embassy and nine Salvadorean civilians.

Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was murdered before the Egyptian government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.

Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens airport, killing four U.S. citizens.

Berlin Discothèque Bombing, April 5, 1986: Two U.S. soldiers were killed and 79 American servicemen were injured in a Libyan bomb attack on a nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany. In retaliation U.S. military jets bombed targets in and around Tripoli and Benghazi.

Bus Attack, April 24, 1987: Sixteen U.S. servicemen riding in a Greek Air Force bus near Athens were injured in an apparent bombing attack, carried out by the revolutionary organization known as November 17.

Servicemen’s Bar Attack, December 26, 1987: Catalan separatists bombed a Barcelona bar frequented by U.S. servicemen, resulting in the death of one U.S. citizen.

Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988: U.S. Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel W. Higgins was kidnapped and murdered by the Iranian-backed Hizballah group while serving with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO) in southern Lebanon.

Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car-bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.

Attack on U.S. Diplomat in Greece, June 28, 1988: The Defense Attaché of the U.S. Embassy in Greece was killed when a car-bomb was detonated outside his home in Athens.


Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft by Libyan terrorists in Frankfurt, West Germany. All 259 people on board were killed.


Assassination of U.S. Army Officer, April 21, 1989: The New People’s Army (NPA) assassinated Colonel James Rowe in Manila. The NPA also assassinated two U.S. government defense contractors in September.

U.S. Embassy Bombed in Peru, January 15, 1990: The Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement bombed the U.S. Embassy in Lima, Peru.

U.S. Soldiers Assassinated in the Philippines, May 13, 1990: The New People’s Army (NPA) killed two U.S. Air Force personnel near Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines.


Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.

Sniper Attack on the U.S. Embassy in Bonn, February 13, 1991: Three Red Army Faction members fired automatic rifles from across the Rhine River at the U.S. Embassy Chancery. No one was hurt.

Kidnapping of U.S. Businessmen in the Philippines, January 17-21, 1992: A senior official of the corporation Philippine Geothermal was kidnapped in Manila by the Red Scorpion Group, and two U.S. businessmen were seized independently by the National Liberation Army and by Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC).

Kidnappings of U.S. Citizens in Colombia, January 31, 1993: Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) terrorists kidnapped three U.S. missionaries.

World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14, 1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi capital Baghdad.

FARC Hostage-taking, September 23, 1994: FARC rebels kidnapped U.S. citizen Thomas Hargrove in Colombia.

Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

Bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995: Right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols destroyed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City with a massive truck bomb that killed 166 and injured hundreds more in what was up to then the largest terrorist attack on American soil.

Attack on U.S. Embassy in Moscow, September 13, 1995: A rocket-propelled grenade was fired through the window of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, ostensibly in retaliation for U.S. strikes on Serb positions in Bosnia.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.

That's just up to 1995.... I think you get the point.

Canmoore
19 Sep 06,, 23:50
US had the first terroist attack on its soil on 9/11 ...

Umm what about the '93 attack on the WTC? or the Oklahoma bombing? or the bombing at the '96 Atlanta Summer Olympics? or that guy who put bombs into mail and mailed them out...

9/11 wasnt the first Terrorist attack on American soil

leib10
20 Sep 06,, 00:21
Or what about those little parcels of anthrax sent out? Granted, it wasn't the nationwide epidemic that we were fearing, but it did happen.

Bill
20 Sep 06,, 00:33
We can win the conventional fight. Nine dead versus 500 ain't exactly a fight between equals. But the hearts and mind fight, we're not doing that very well.
Probably because huge chunks of each of our populations are a bunch of slack-jawed pusssies. :mad:

Bill
20 Sep 06,, 00:33
Umm what about the '93 attack on the WTC? or the Oklahoma bombing? or the bombing at the '96 Atlanta Summer Olympics? or that guy who put bombs into mail and mailed them out...

9/11 wasnt the first Terrorist attack on American soil
Or the indian cult that caused HUNDREDS of casualties in the US?

YellowFever
26 Sep 06,, 06:07
From everything I've read so far, the Canadians were unprepared but are gritting their teeth and trying to do their jobs as best as they can.

I sometimes (umm...most of the times actually) want to scream bloody murder about the Canadians but reality kicks in and I have to admit they are one our best allies.

That Canadian corporal will be in my prayers tonight.

God bless them all.

Canmoore
26 Sep 06,, 16:03
The rally went very well. 10,000+ people showed up! I first got there when it was just starting, id say there was about 20 people there. Then it grew and grew, into a giant mass of people packed tightly. I was surprised to see Stephen Harper make a visit and a speech. Even got to see President Karzai wave to us. All in all, it went very well. I think that the tide of support for this mission just may be starting to shift ever so slightly.
This is good.

Gun Grape
27 Sep 06,, 00:31
Probably because huge chunks of each of our populations are a bunch of slack-jawed pusssies. :mad:


Damn M-21. That rated a GG warning. Coffee on my new flat screen:frown:

But really, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel:biggrin:

Bill
27 Sep 06,, 04:42
Damn M-21. That rated a GG warning. Coffee on my new flat screen:frown:

But really, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel:biggrin:
Whoa, i thought that was just standard "Sniperfare."

My humblest.:biggrin:

kargal
09 Dec 06,, 05:55
Oh, it's Friday - I mis-read your post.

I'll think of you both, too, while you're there.




Canadain Army/people are peacefull nation. They dont wanted to fight for
no cause.Is this cultural war between west & East,south or what. Is there any solution beside war? Lets talk about canadian economy,jobs, welfare.

kargal
09 Dec 06,, 06:02
Pleasing the country whose intelligence agency was directly involved in 9/11 is what has led to the current situation.



:biggrin: ARE Y O U talking about RAW (agency):biggrin:

kargal
09 Dec 06,, 06:06
If u consider date of Inception of terroism as 9/11,u are totally flawed..where was US or NATO when INDIA was constanlty fighting terroism in kashmir (right from 1947) ,khalistani movement e.t.c ......

In one or other way we have been battling terroism for more than 4 decades . US had the first terroist attack on its soil on 9/11 ...
by all means we are far more experienced in this field than US or NATO .....

:biggrin: Thats why you couldn't forget Kargil. U cannot compair US Force with mick mouse(indian army):eek:

Officer of Engineers
09 Dec 06,, 06:32
Canadain Army/people are peacefull nation. They dont wanted to fight for
no cause.Is this cultural war between west & East,south or what. Is there any solution beside war? Lets talk about canadian economy,jobs, welfare.

We have a cause to fight for. That's the War on Terror.

Canmoore
11 Dec 06,, 23:35
Canadain Army/people are peacefull nation. They dont wanted to fight for
no cause.Is this cultural war between west & East,south or what. Is there any solution beside war? Lets talk about canadian economy,jobs, welfare.

Its funny how people say that the Canadian army and people are peacefull. Tell that to the Taliban fighters, who made the mistake of diggin in for a fight with the Canucks.

Its sad how so many people forget about Korea and the truth about our peacekeeping missions

Its like there is a giant hole in our history between WW2 and Afghanistan, people like to think it was filled with pink fluffy puppy dog peacekeeping missions, and guns that shot daisies instead of bullets.

smilingassassin
12 Dec 06,, 10:57
Complacency is all most Canadians know, and they all want an instant victory, just like everything else in their instant breakfast life.

MKristensen908
02 Feb 07,, 00:17
It's a tough war, its a tough fight. I think that in order for us to win we're going to have to go in all the way in Afghanistan in terms of socioeconomic help and military forces as well. The problem with conventional armies (western forces) is that for counterinsurgencies, we always implement a traditional patrol/interdiction approach to fighting insurgents. We have to focus on the people of afghanistan which i think is the most important part. We have to adequately provide protection to the people who support us, provide jobs, etc.
Sorry for pontificating on a somewhat off-topic post but I feel strongly about not making our sacrifices a waste.

Officer of Engineers
02 Feb 07,, 01:09
You're preaching to the choir here but I don't know how long Canadians can stomache the sacrafices.

smilingassassin
02 Feb 07,, 06:58
This Canadian can accept "as long as it takes".

T_igger_cs_30
02 Feb 07,, 07:04
This Canadian can accept "as long as it takes".

Don't all soldiers?

Canmoore
02 Feb 07,, 07:06
You're preaching to the choir here but I don't know how long Canadians can stomache the sacrafices.

The environment is the #1 priority for Canadians right now, I studied this in college. When the economy is doing good and people are making money, then the environment is the #1 concern. However when the economy turns sour, then people will not give two shits about the environment.

The Conservatives. in my mind, are banking on this truth, and are signing back onto the hypocracy known as Koyoto, in doing so, Harper can do whatever he wants in Afghanistan and still look like an alter boy, when the economy takes a turn for the worst and he cancells Koyoto, know one will care and he will be praised.

smilingassassin
02 Feb 07,, 09:56
The environment is the #1 priority for Canadians right now, I studied this in college. When the economy is doing good and people are making money, then the environment is the #1 concern. However when the economy turns sour, then people will not give two shits about the environment.

The Conservatives. in my mind, are banking on this truth, and are signing back onto the hypocracy known as Koyoto, in doing so, Harper can do whatever he wants in Afghanistan and still look like an alter boy, when the economy takes a turn for the worst and he cancells Koyoto, know one will care and he will be praised.

Bah, Kyoto is a farce anyway, as is this recent "Scientific study" that states global warming is purely man made. Theres absolutely no benifit to the Kyoto when you have countrys like China and India that could use the help cleaning their stuff up and getting up to our standards first.

As for the recent "Scientific study" reguarding global warming and its supposed manmade source, theres absolutely no mention of the earths natural hot and cold cycle, nothing. An analogy I recently heard that fits well is amputating your leg because its sore and you "think" it might be cancer.

MKristensen908
02 Feb 07,, 19:17
Bah, Kyoto is a farce anyway, as is this recent "Scientific study" that states global warming is purely man made. Theres absolutely no benifit to the Kyoto when you have countrys like China and India that could use the help cleaning their stuff up and getting up to our standards first.


I think its going to be a really really long time before these countries get up to standard. I don't think that it should hinder say Canada's efforts to clean up as our country is far more advanced and should take the leadership in trying to protect the environment.

smilingassassin
03 Feb 07,, 07:28
I think its going to be a really really long time before these countries get up to standard. I don't think that it should hinder say Canada's efforts to clean up as our country is far more advanced and should take the leadership in trying to protect the environment.

Sure, I agree, we should be doing our best to clean up even more, but not at the expence of our economy and peoples jobs when we can do far more for other country's.

Look at it this way, if two apartments in a complex have a water leak, one a slow trickle, another a huge torrent from a broken pipe, doesn't it make sence to stop the torrent of water, then tackle the trickle if you want to dry the place up?

Canmoore
03 Feb 07,, 20:59
Sure, I agree, we should be doing our best to clean up even more, but not at the expence of our economy and peoples jobs when we can do far more for other country's.

Look at it this way, if two apartments in a complex have a water leak, one a slow trickle, another a huge torrent from a broken pipe, doesn't it make sence to stop the torrent of water, then tackle the trickle if you want to dry the place up?

We can and should clean up the environment, yes. But we need to do it in a sustainable way, where by we are not gimping our economy.

smilingassassin
03 Feb 07,, 23:10
We can and should clean up the environment, yes. But we need to do it in a sustainable way, where by we are not gimping our economy.

I agree and I think you may have miss-understood my statement. In "trickle" I meant us, while the "torrent" would be the developing third world country's.