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Ironduke
22 Jan 04,, 05:13
Rather interesting post I found from another message board.

gmaharriet
Venerable Crone
Posts: 21
(6/23/03 6:49 pm)
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ezSupporter

Justinian a Cause of the Middle Ages?

I found this to be an interesting summary of Justinian's reconquest of the western portion of the Roman Empire:

We often view history as a series of "achievements," and think that great men and women control the course of events. In the case of Justinian, the view may be partly true. The results of his decisions were crucial in the development of western Europe.

The Middle Ages would not have happened had it not been for Justinian. But it was not because of his "achievements," but because of his failures that history turned out the way that it did.

His ill-conceived western venture led to a clear split between the westerners and the eastern Romans; his abandonment of Latin made the division permanent, and so he failed to reunited the empire, as the leaders of the other classical civilizations had done.

He weakened the eastern empire and strengthened the Persians, setting a stage for a devastating war that weakened the eastern empire to such an extent that it could not effectively resist the spread of Islam.

Finally, he destroyed those western Germanic powers that were committed to attempting to preserve as much of imperial civilization as possible. And this led, indirectly, to the rise of the medieval church.
orb.rhodes.edu/textbooks/...inian.html

It was the least advanced and Romanized Germanic tribes that formed the foundation of medieval European society, and the most important of these were the Franks.
orb.rhodes.edu/textbooks/..._rise.html

Ironduke
23 Jan 04,, 02:40
Now what I found interesting about this post is that it the first writing I've seen to attribute the "Dark Ages" to Justinian.

The poster says: "The Middle Ages would not have happened had it not been for Justinian."

We should keep in mind that the Roman Empire saw, more or less, 200+ years of almost constant civil war following the death of the last "good emperor", Marcus Aurelius, and the end of the Pax Romana.

100+ years of Germanic and Hun invasions preceding the fall of the Western Empire in 476 A.D. also helped contribute.

Viking raids were another chief cause. The darkest of the "Dark Ages" occurred during the time of the Viking raids.

The point the author makes is that Justinian exacerbated the split between East and West, but how much could have this contributed to the "Dark Ages"?

2DREZQ
04 Apr 04,, 15:29
An interesting viewpoint. I certainly agree that letting the church run the country is a BAD idea.

Something our Moslem freinds "over there" haven't figured out yet...

Hawg166
05 Apr 04,, 13:31
I dont believe the church had any choice but to run the country. After the move t Constantinople the Western empire had very little to provide for it. There was no lareg governing body, there was no real driving economic force, there was no real law. Everything had to be picked up by the church.

headlessbarbie
10 May 04,, 06:17
Let's make sure we clarify a little point here.... it was the CATHOLIC Church that ran the country.. Not THE Church.

Sorry to interupt yet agian.... carry on

eryan

maersk
28 May 04,, 05:20
islam could have been checked by the sassanids alone, had they not been constantly bickering with the greeks.

AzzurroItalia
01 Jul 04,, 15:25
His ill-conceived western venture led to a clear split between the westerners and the eastern Romans; his abandonment of Latin made the division permanent, and so he failed to reunited the empire, as the leaders of the other classical civilizations had done.

True. His invasion of Italy for a while was successful in that the people welcomed the Byzantines as liberators, returning Italy to the Roman Empire. Unfortunately though, after Justinian's death, the people truly saw that they weren't Romans, but Greek-speaking conqueres, and they rebelled against them. An Italian even claimed to be emperor of the Roman Empire, took his followers, marched to Ravenna, and declared himself emperor. The rebellion was squashed as Byzantine troops reoccupied the penninsula. But they wouldn't hold them for long.

smilingassassin
28 Jul 04,, 03:32
Interestingly enough when reading books about the lost continent of Atlantis the dark ages is a subject that comes up frequently. If you beleive that the myth of Atlantis is based on a true catacysmic event then you can easily find many events to support this theory. Many bronze age powers fell by the wayside. Many coastal city's were burned or abandoned, many of these could be atributed to war but the fact that many civilizations tell of a great deluge and often speak of comets as harbringers of death could persuade you that in fact the dark ages were caused by a comet fragment impact. Just look up the comet "encke-oljato" on Yahoo or google and you'll likely find references to both Atlantis and the dark ages. It dosn't matter if you believe Atlantis was real or not and perhaps its irrelivant, but the evidence is there to support the deluge event theory.

Ironduke
28 Jul 04,, 06:40
There may have also been civilizations prior to 10,000 B.C. before the end of the last ice age. The coast lines were radically different then they are today. For example, there was a huge peninsula where there are today Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Mediterranean was mainly swamp land, etc.

The water level of the oceans was 300 feet lower during the last ice age than it is today, so imagine all of the areas of the ocean and seas today 300 feet deep or less as land back then.

Aryan
30 Jul 04,, 02:21
There may have also been civilizations prior to 10,000 B.C. before the end of the last ice age. The coast lines were radically different then they are today. For example, there was a huge peninsula where there are today Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Mediterranean was mainly swamp land, etc.

The water level of the oceans was 300 feet lower during the last ice age than it is today, so imagine all of the areas of the ocean and seas today 300 feet deep or less as land back then.

I'm currently writing an article about the pre-Soan civilisation, the earliest documented Pakistani civilisation, which dates the second glacial period 250,000 years ago.

There's evidence of flakes suggesting a Paleolithic type settlement in Pakistan as early as 500,000 years ago, but so far no other remains have been found to verify it.

Samudra
06 Sep 04,, 06:01
I have this crazy theory that , some time early before the humans had reached their pinnacles of civilisation and thereafter degenerated and whole process started again :eek: ;)

Ironduke
06 Sep 04,, 06:26
I have this crazy theory that , some time early before the humans had reached their pinnacles of civilisation and thereafter degenerated and whole process started again :eek: ;)
I wouldn't call it crazy. In known history, most civilizations began in coastal areas.