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Neo
28 Jul 06,, 21:09
LeT may target atomic energy installation: NSA

Press Trust of India

New Delhi, July 28, 2006

Government has information that one of the atomic energy installations could be targeted by Pakistan-based terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), National Security Adviser MK Narayanan said on Friday terming it a "very serious threat".

"There is information that may be one of our atomic energy installations could be the target," he said in an interview to a private TV channel.

Asked whether there was any information about individuals who could be picking up the targets, Narayanan said, "It's LeT operation...It is a very serious threat".

"I think I may be ex-communicated after this. I may not be given information but since you asked me, this is enough for us for more than providing proof to anyone," he said adding, "I would like to be able to prevent this and get the module that is responsible."

Asked about BJP leader Jaswant Singh's claim about a 'mole' in the PMO during PV Narasimha Rao's regime, leaking nuclear secrets to the US, the NSA contended that what Singh has done has trivialised an issue of great importance.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1755253,0008.htm

raj
28 Jul 06,, 22:22
LeT may target atomic energy installation: NSA

Press Trust of India

New Delhi, July 28, 2006

Government has information that one of the atomic energy installations could be targeted by Pakistan-based terrorist outfit Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), National Security Adviser MK Narayanan said on Friday terming it a "very serious threat".

"There is information that may be one of our atomic energy installations could be the target," he said in an interview to a private TV channel.

Asked whether there was any information about individuals who could be picking up the targets, Narayanan said, "It's LeT operation...It is a very serious threat".

"I think I may be ex-communicated after this. I may not be given information but since you asked me, this is enough for us for more than providing proof to anyone," he said adding, "I would like to be able to prevent this and get the module that is responsible."

Asked about BJP leader Jaswant Singh's claim about a 'mole' in the PMO during PV Narasimha Rao's regime, leaking nuclear secrets to the US, the NSA contended that what Singh has done has trivialised an issue of great importance.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1755253,0008.htm

with that kind of an act even the saner elements in any govt would push for war, it would be a suicide act for the country that would sponser such acts

lemontree
29 Jul 06,, 05:13
LeT may target atomic energy installation: NSA

Press Trust of India
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1755253,0008.htm
Neo,
Seriously, does the Pak Army have a death wish for Pakistan?

starsiege
30 Jul 06,, 14:12
Neo,
Seriously, does the Pak Army have a death wish for Pakistan?

if the pakistani gov thinks they can let their henchmen attack an indian nuclear installation and get away with it they are sadly mistaken. they must be daft to think that the indian gov would sit back and watch its people near that installation getting radiation sickness. lemontree u are absolutly right in asking that q!

Neo
30 Jul 06,, 14:24
Neo,
Seriously, does the Pak Army have a death wish for Pakistan?
Why you say that LT, the claim is coming from Indian intelligence...I know how reliable that is. ;)

Archer
30 Jul 06,, 14:42
Neo, that was a serious question. Does Pak seriously think that India's patience is infinite?

You guys are setting up for a showdown & for what end?

gilgamesh
30 Jul 06,, 16:04
Neo, that was a serious question. Does Pak seriously think that India's patience is infinite?

You guys are setting up for a showdown & for what end?

Nothing happened after the attack on the parliament which was run by so called "hawks" of Indian political establishment. Supreme windpipes, our establishment.

Neo
30 Jul 06,, 16:22
Neo, that was a serious question. Does Pak seriously think that India's patience is infinite?
Now reverse this question Archer. No matter how badly you want the world to believe that PA is behind LeT, its simply not true.


You guys are setting up for a showdown & for what end?
Bring it on!
Israel got away with it maybe you will aswll but PA is not Lebanon.
There will be no winner in this.

Tronic
30 Jul 06,, 17:05
the only thing PA can save its ass with is nukes... and if things resort to nukes, Pakistan will cease to exist... India will have a few craters aswell, but with dozens of metropolis cities and over a billion population, we can easily recover, you can't...

SLASH
30 Jul 06,, 17:11
the only thing PA can save its ass with is nukes... and if things resort to nukes, Pakistan will cease to exist... India will have a few craters aswell, but with dozens of metropolis cities and over a billion population, we can easily recover, you can't...

LMAO.My ass would be radiated here in Mumbai.But we'll still have Banglore,Chennai,Kolkata and Hyderabad pupming in money :biggrin: .

Karthik
30 Jul 06,, 18:46
Only freaks of nature will think of bombing Atomic installations.

If they do it, the consequences for Pakistan will be too ghastly to imagine.

Tronic
30 Jul 06,, 18:52
LMAO.My ass would be radiated here in Mumbai.But we'll still have Banglore,Chennai,Kolkata and Hyderabad pupming in money :biggrin: .
Mumbai's still far... you can still pray that those missiles get intercepted before touchdown... lol...

lemontree
31 Jul 06,, 04:58
Why you say that LT, the claim is coming from Indian intelligence...I know how reliable that is. ;)
There is no fire without some smoke.

lemontree
31 Jul 06,, 05:04
No matter how badly you want the world to believe that PA is behind LeT, its simply not true.

You must be joking or too naive to believe that. I use to intercept their calls with their handlers back in the 1997. My unit was one of the first units to track and kill LeT chaps in Poonch/ Rajouri sector.

There will be no winner in this.
There lies the fallacy of your perception. Pakistan still does not have second strike capability. Attacking an Indian nuclear station will mean a massive first strike, Pakistan will cease to exist as you know it today. The first strike will leave very little capability with the PA to give even a token nuclear response.

Bring it on!
Israel got away with it maybe you will aswll but PA is not Lebanon.
Never wish for something that you cannot handle, PA could'nt handle it in 1971 when we "Brought it on". PA/ISI is bringing the scourge of war upon the people of Pakistan.

Officer of Engineers
31 Jul 06,, 05:06
Captain,

I really have to question this. About the only thing that can attack a nuclear installation is a nuke. We're talking about a reactor that is surrounded by feet of steel and yards of concrete. You take all the planes of 11 Sept and it wouldn't even make a dent.

That leaves an inside job and that is the work of security, not the army.

lemontree
31 Jul 06,, 05:10
Sir,
I did not mean that they could destroy the nuclear reactor, but even a symbolic failed attack will be cause enough for war.

Tronic
31 Jul 06,, 05:14
Sir,
I did not mean that they could destroy the nuclear reactor, but even a symbolic failed attack will be cause enough for war.
LT, with our politicians... I doubt they would declare war...

Captain Drunk
31 Jul 06,, 05:33
Nothing happened after the attack on the parliament which was run by so called "hawks" of Indian political establishment. Supreme windpipes, our establishment.

One of those "hawks" said, "To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." This is precisely what keeps happening everytime attacks happen, terrorists are gunned down by cops throughout the country and The Indian Army's heavy shelling across the border everyday for a certain amount of hours killing hundreds of perpetrators make those terrorist blasts look like mere fragments. :cool:

Also, regarding the topic, I believe our Nuclear facilities are heavily guarded with anti-aircraft guns, etc. so its quite difficult to attack.

bull
31 Jul 06,, 06:47
Now reverse this question Archer. No matter how badly you want the world to believe that PA is behind LeT, its simply not true..

Neo, you cant run away from facts.Do you mean to say LeT has no roots in pakistan and has nothing to do with PA/ISI.

Your Pres has said in an interview that he doesnt consider LeT as to be a terorist organisation.But later on was forced to ban it as a terrorist organisation>now they have emerged with anew name and is under pressure from US to ban that too,but are unable to due to the "good work" they did after the EQ.

If not PA,then what?Its your countries citizens behind it and its no less a crime.Every single bomb blast has had some sort of a connection with pakistan and your reputation if any was left has been damaged beyondrepair.

Mind you NEO ,your country has been accused of harbours terrorists/terrorist symphatisers by media after media/think tanks after think tanks have said from it time after time.

You might win an argument or debate over here by being defiant.But would that be any good if your country gets rebuked time after time in the intl arena?



Bring it on!
Israel got away with it maybe you will aswll but PA is not Lebanon.
There will be no winner in this.

Nobody considers PA to be LA or hizbullah..
India can live with a couple or m,ore nuclear strikes,but can pakistan?

bull
31 Jul 06,, 06:52
Also, regarding the topic, I believe our Nuclear facilities are heavily guarded with anti-aircraft guns, etc. so its quite difficult to attack.
WHat are u saying,yeah they might have S300 protecting the skies,but the ground is covered by the CISF.God alone can only save BARC from a ground suicide mission.

Samudra
31 Jul 06,, 06:55
WHat are u saying,yeah they might have S300 protecting the skies,but the ground is covered by the CISF.God alone can only save BARC from a ground suicide mission.

Its called access control and perimeter security.

Captain Drunk
31 Jul 06,, 08:22
WHat are u saying,yeah they might have S300 protecting the skies,but the ground is covered by the CISF.God alone can only save BARC from a ground suicide mission.

Armed CISF troops with SMGs and who knows what surrounding high baracaded walls, it would be next to impossible and being a heavy water reactor, the Coast Guard and fast attack craft would be guarding the fuel rods all around, so by sea too, not possible.

Captain Drunk
31 Jul 06,, 08:53
Neo,
Seriously, does the Pak Army have a death wish for Pakistan?

Or perhaps they all want to be some kind of martyrs in a new "Sthan" created by India that starts with a "K" :tongue:

css_hyd
04 Aug 06,, 04:35
What can India do, if its nuclear installations are attacked?
Nothing !!!

No Indian Govt cares about its citizens, Period !....

If the attack happened before the elections the politicians would sit back and condemn the act to gain minority vote. and Indian intel is a joke.

*The world witnessed the IC-81 whatever hijacking episode,
Result the book ====>>
Indian diplomacy unleashed (LOL) Or better
Indian diplomacy for dummys !!! Or
A comprehensive guide to Indian diplomacy!!
LOL LOL LOL

*Kargill mmm, tough battle to take back what was yours, and How did it start=GR8 intel and border guard.

*some number of blasts in Mumbai, I think its chronic and predictable
now that the pattern is clear not much intel is needed to guess when the next one is coming, They are prepared arent they. (No fun intended RIP victims, RIH(ROT IN HELL) terrorists).

*And failures of Indian ordinance industry, not because they are dumb but the corruption within.


India was hit, is being hit and will be bound to be hit.
Inaction=gradual loss=further Inaction

Many Indian fourmers here say India is running out of patience, so how many more hits India needs until, it rejuvenates its patience levels back to 100%.

Dont worry boys their patience will last for ever, they got 1 billion Gandis anyways. Slap em once they wait for the next slap. LOLZ

gilgamesh
04 Aug 06,, 05:04
What can India do, if its nuclear installations are attacked?
Nothing !!!

No Indian Govt cares about its citizens, Period !....

If the attack happened before the elections the politicians would sit back and condemn the act to gain minority vote. and Indian intel is a joke.

*The world witnessed the IC-81 whatever hijacking episode,
Result the book ====>>
Indian diplomacy unleashed (LOL) Or better
Indian diplomacy for dummys !!! Or
A comprehensive guide to Indian diplomacy!!
LOL LOL LOL

*Kargill mmm, tough battle to take back what was yours, and How did it start=GR8 intel and border guard.

*some number of blasts in Mumbai, I think its chronic and predictable
now that the pattern is clear not much intel is needed to guess when the next one is coming, They are prepared arent they. (No fun intended RIP victims, RIH(ROT IN HELL) terrorists).

*And failures of Indian ordinance industry, not because they are dumb but the corruption within.


India was hit, is being hit and will be bound to be hit.
Inaction=gradual loss=further Inaction

Many Indian fourmers here say India is running out of patience, so how many more hits India needs until, it rejuvenates its patience levels back to 100%.

Dont worry boys their patience will last for ever, they got 1 billion Gandis anyways. Slap em once they wait for the next slap. LOLZ

Patience, my friend, patience! Remember, certain neighbor of ours is already on auto destruct :biggrin: .

Samudra
04 Aug 06,, 05:45
No Indian Govt cares about its citizens, Period !....

We can go to war with Pakistan for each and every bomb blast that happens here and help the Pakistani army perpetuate its hold on that country.

But do we want PA to hold on to that country ?

css_hyd
04 Aug 06,, 18:47
"We can go to war with Pakistan for each and every bomb blast that happens here and help the Pakistani army perpetuate its hold on that country.

But do we want PA to hold on to that country ?"

This is by far the most dumbest reply ... LOL,

Who carez what they are ruled by and it doesnt have much of a difference, they were bomb blasts when pak was democratic and they are blasts in INDIA when mil was ruling.

Infact I prefer PA ruling them as scope of wider development and FDI is less,
Mil rule=unknown future=another coup round the corner ???=no development= good for us.

Eye for an eye good.
When ever I think of the events before and after of the plane hijacking is a Hurts me really bad, it was an open defeat for India the terrorists went to Pak and the world just pretended nutin happened.
Had we later killed them in pak then we would proven a point.
, bomb blasts hundreds die for nothing and the great faggy Indian govt condemns it and WARNS LOL PAK, yea that the max it can do.
And when the next blast occurs they will pull of peace talks and not allow IA flights over pak or sumtin,

If u take a hit give em hell, then India will act as a power.
India shining or fagging is all fake, if the Govt stands for its citizens then India shines,
what good is a democrazy when its citizens are killed. and or waiting to be killed.
I guess monarchy is better for India or foreign rule suits India more I guess.

Shame on Indian govt, Army, Intel (if we have one). for allowing our citizens die and they doin nutin abt it.

At this rate pak can kill all indians in installments in India.
And of course condemn(faggiest english word) it.

Tronic
04 Aug 06,, 21:29
"We can go to war with Pakistan for each and every bomb blast that happens here and help the Pakistani army perpetuate its hold on that country.

But do we want PA to hold on to that country ?"

This is by far the most dumbest reply ... LOL,

Who carez what they are ruled by and it doesnt have much of a difference, they were bomb blasts when pak was democratic and they are blasts in INDIA when mil was ruling.

Infact I prefer PA ruling them as scope of wider development and FDI is less,
Mil rule=unknown future=another coup round the corner ???=no development= good for us.

Eye for an eye good.
When ever I think of the events before and after of the plane hijacking is a Hurts me really bad, it was an open defeat for India the terrorists went to Pak and the world just pretended nutin happened.
Had we later killed them in pak then we would proven a point.
, bomb blasts hundreds die for nothing and the great faggy Indian govt condemns it and WARNS LOL PAK, yea that the max it can do.
And when the next blast occurs they will pull of peace talks and not allow IA flights over pak or sumtin,

If u take a hit give em hell, then India will act as a power.
India shining or fagging is all fake, if the Govt stands for its citizens then India shines,
what good is a democrazy when its citizens are killed. and or waiting to be killed.
I guess monarchy is better for India or foreign rule suits India more I guess.

Shame on Indian govt, Army, Intel (if we have one). for allowing our citizens die and they doin nutin abt it.

At this rate pak can kill all indians in installments in India.
And of course condemn(faggiest english word) it.
gimme a break... I can't read any of your bull anymore.. obviously, you are not living in India... If you were, you wouldn't be talking like this... facing a possibility of nuclear war changes everyone's perspective... do you notice why most nuclear powers in the world try to hard to avoid confrontation??? America and Israel can and did chase those terrorists to those countries because those countries have yet to build nukes.. notice, the difference of diplomacy towards North Korea and Iran... the difference is there because N.Korea has the nukes, Iran doesn't... thats why even America will think ten times over before attacking N.Korea... so snap out of your dreamworld wherever you are...

css_hyd
04 Aug 06,, 22:05
"gimme a break... I can't read any of your bull anymore.. obviously, you are not living in India... If you were, you wouldn't be talking like this... facing a possibility of nuclear war changes everyone's perspective... do you notice why most nuclear powers in the world try to hard to avoid confrontation??? America and Israel can and did chase those terrorists to those countries because those countries have yet to build nukes.. notice, the difference of diplomacy towards North Korea and Iran... the difference is there because N.Korea has the nukes, Iran doesn't... thats why even America will think ten times over before attacking N.Korea... so snap out of your dreamworld wherever you are..."

Dude, WAR would be gr8 but, USA and Isreal are screwing their enemies where they can and goin by those terms
what the f r we doin abt our enemy?
I never said nuke them or war on them, so if they nukmail us then we take the rant??

Read my posts carefully, war is upon us anyways moron.
we need to play fire with fire, we get blown we blow theirs simple.

1 train blast in India= 2 train blasts in pak make it and conddemn it,
The world, will yes look down on us, so are they on pak, that wont in anyway reduce our FDI trust me. Paks justa bicth in war aganist u know what.

Atmost there will be summons and clarifications from our ambassodors.
and we will expect further attacks on our soil but what the f are our internal security doin.

Again inaction=inviting the devil.

action<>condemnation (thats the way of fags)

One final question to u dude:
"do u think there wont be any further blasts in INDIA?"

Before responding with nukemail read the question thrice read my previous posts and then respond
Thanks

Akshay
04 Aug 06,, 23:49
I have a query. Say these jehadis happen to lay their hands on a nuke weapon(5 KT maybe..). So, in order to detonate it what would be required from them? If the bomb is detonated at ground level then it would probably take down 2/3 city blocks but, the much desired 'Mushroom Clouds' won't be achieved. The detonation needs to be carried out at a certain height above the ground level for Mushroom balloons to form. I am not sure about it. Kindly, correct me if I am wrong.

Tronic
05 Aug 06,, 00:17
"gimme a break... I can't read any of your bull anymore.. obviously, you are not living in India... If you were, you wouldn't be talking like this... facing a possibility of nuclear war changes everyone's perspective... do you notice why most nuclear powers in the world try to hard to avoid confrontation??? America and Israel can and did chase those terrorists to those countries because those countries have yet to build nukes.. notice, the difference of diplomacy towards North Korea and Iran... the difference is there because N.Korea has the nukes, Iran doesn't... thats why even America will think ten times over before attacking N.Korea... so snap out of your dreamworld wherever you are..."

Dude, WAR would be gr8 but, USA and Isreal are screwing their enemies where they can and goin by those terms
what the f r we doin abt our enemy?
I never said nuke them or war on them, so if they nukmail us then we take the rant??

Read my posts carefully, war is upon us anyways moron.
we need to play fire with fire, we get blown we blow theirs simple.

1 train blast in India= 2 train blasts in pak make it and conddemn it,
The world, will yes look down on us, so are they on pak, that wont in anyway reduce our FDI trust me. Paks justa bicth in war aganist u know what.

Atmost there will be summons and clarifications from our ambassodors.
and we will expect further attacks on our soil but what the f are our internal security doin.

Again inaction=inviting the devil.

action<>condemnation (thats the way of fags)

One final question to u dude:
"do u think there wont be any further blasts in INDIA?"

Before responding with nukemail read the question thrice read my previous posts and then respond
Thanks

listen it's easy for you to say.. go attack Pak, nuke and get nuked... it might be alright for you... let me ask you this... to get revenge are you saying that Indian citizens are expendable as long as we get to kill Pakistani citizens??? I just find that plain wrong... and yes, terrorism is a problem... and we must find other solutions to that problem other then start a nuclear holocoust...

Tronic
05 Aug 06,, 00:18
I have a query. Say these jehadis happen to lay their hands on a nuke weapon(5 KT maybe..). So, in order to detonate it what would be required from them? If the bomb is detonated at ground level then it would probably take down 2/3 city blocks but, the much desired 'Mushroom Clouds' won't be achieved. The detonation needs to be carried out at a certain height above the ground level for Mushroom balloons to form. I am not sure about it. Kindly, correct me if I am wrong.

I dunno bro but terrorists with nukes!!! :eek: thats too frikkin scary... If such a thing happened then I would surely support a full out nuclear strike on Pakistan.. and I mean full out... knock Pakistan right off the map.. and India has that capability.. .as far as I know, Pak has no second strike capability...

Akshay
05 Aug 06,, 02:53
I dunno bro but terrorists with nukes!!! :eek: thats too frikkin scary... If such a thing happened then I would surely support a full out nuclear strike on Pakistan.. and I mean full out... knock Pakistan right off the map.. and India has that capability.. .as far as I know, Pak has no second strike capability...

The idea of nukes in jehadi hands is a li'l too far-fetched. I had a similar discussion on IDF over it. Something bigger than nukes itself is the fear of nukes. Any country would like to play upon that fear as long as it can. It is the same fear that has kept India from attacking Pakistan so far. The day this fear is over there is no stopping India from making Pakistan a chapter in history just like the lost continent of Atlantis. Pakistani generals know this very well & they would let this fear factor stay alive. Afterall, this is what ensures there survival.

Akshay
05 Aug 06,, 03:24
Dude, WAR would be gr8 but, USA and Isreal are screwing their enemies where they can and goin by those terms
what the f r we doin abt our enemy?
I never said nuke them or war on them, so if they nukmail us then we take the rant??

Read my posts carefully, war is upon us anyways moron.
we need to play fire with fire, we get blown we blow theirs simple.

1 train blast in India= 2 train blasts in pak make it and conddemn it,
The world, will yes look down on us, so are they on pak, that wont in anyway reduce our FDI trust me. Paks justa bicth in war aganist u know what.

Atmost there will be summons and clarifications from our ambassodors.
and we will expect further attacks on our soil but what the f are our internal security doin.

Again inaction=inviting the devil.

action<>condemnation (thats the way of fags)

One final question to u dude:
"do u think there wont be any further blasts in INDIA?"

Before responding with nukemail read the question thrice read my previous posts and then respond
Thanks

I understand ur rage & it is justified. It is the same rage we all feel day/night in & out. But, there is nothing that we can do officially. Honestly speaking it would be stupid. But, if they want to play this game then two can play. Wait for BLA to blow up few gas pipelines. This is now becoming more of a war where ethical & moral values have become discrete & human life inexpensive. If it comes to survival then no moral definition of right/wrong would stop us from ensuring our survival even if it comes at the cost of 165 million lives.

css_hyd
05 Aug 06,, 15:57
"listen it's easy for you to say.. go attack Pak, nuke and get nuked... it might be alright for you... let me ask you this... to get revenge are you saying that Indian citizens are expendable as long as we get to kill Pakistani citizens??? I just find that plain wrong... and yes, terrorism is a problem... and we must find other solutions to that problem other then start a nuclear holocoust..."

Hello, As I said no direct war, do the same in pak as well. they cant sustain infrastructure damage, but we can.

If you see the pattern of mordern wars, by Russia, USA and Isreal,
They blow the infrastructure of a country to 1st century BC, this scares others, not to directly mess with them, yes behind the scenes there will be anger and support.

My point is "the so called other solutions" is a myth, I know we cannot go for a head on direct war, then start a proxy one.
DID u know IA/police... captures about 50~500 Tonnes explosives in India every year!!!

going by the same terms start one in such a way that the rulers in Pak will think twice to mess with us.

No matter who rules pak pa, elected govt or radicals they will know, they only understand the way of Himsa not Ahimsa.

Again there will be attacks on Indian soil, u know it I know it everyone in the world knows it, and we all know who will be behind them.

If we dont take an action this will continue.....

"to get revenge are you saying that Indian citizens are expendable as long as we get to kill Pakistani citizens??? "

Arent Indian citizens expendable now??? A nuke will kill us and even RDX will kill us. Both ways we are dying.

Terror is answered by terror, peace and love have no place in the terrorists mind, hate is much deeply rooted in them and for no reason.

The govt is not spine less its just that they want vote and really dont care for its poeple. ASk your slf.

Archer
05 Aug 06,, 23:54
Now reverse this question Archer. No matter how badly you want the world to believe that PA is behind LeT, its simply not true.

Neo, personally I dont give a sh!t what the world believes or not- its fact that your Govt and ISI are behind the LET - its common knowledge. No matter how much you deny it and try to avoid the fact that your junta is sponsoring terror.



Bring it on!

Brave words. Where exactly are you located? I see you & Plat & Asim & all the other expats talk big about "bringing it on", but at the same time, a mock dissection of Pakistan gets you all riled up. Do you have any idea of what will happen if India does bring it on? Use your brains, not some macho display please.


Israel got away with it maybe you will aswll but PA is not Lebanon.
There will be no winner in this.

There is no getting away anything. It will be a bloodbath & India will ensure that Pakistan suffers far more. Both in men & materiel. And all your agit-propoganda about spinning away loss after loss based on feckless politicians and international conspiracies will not work if a full fledged war begins.

Archer
05 Aug 06,, 23:56
WHat are u saying,yeah they might have S300 protecting the skies,but the ground is covered by the CISF.God alone can only save BARC from a ground suicide mission.

Oh please, you have an apt nickname. The CISF is nowhere as pathetic as you make them out to be.

Karthik
06 Aug 06,, 04:48
Yeah, exactly.

As the Officer has pointed out, it would take at least a nuclear strike to penetrate atomic reactors, as they are very well shielded.

The CISF aren't bad either.

Samudra
06 Aug 06,, 07:01
No matter how badly you want the world to believe that PA is behind LeT, its simply not true.

I've heard Musharaff say that Lashkar is not a terrorist organistaion and therefore they're not banned.What do you think?

lemontree
07 Aug 06,, 05:26
The CISF is nowhere as pathetic as you make them out to be.
I disagree, the CISF are just O.K. There are many issues but I would not like to discuss on the internet.

bull
07 Aug 06,, 06:30
Oh please, you have an apt nickname. The CISF is nowhere as pathetic as you make them out to be.


IOgonred your personal swipe at me,but u did see what LT wrote that.Dont let your love for your motherland blind you.

Akshay
07 Aug 06,, 13:07
The CISF is nowhere as pathetic as you make them out to be.

I am not sure if the 'Danda' weilding CISF hawaldars can face upto Kalashnikovs.

bull
07 Aug 06,, 14:22
I am not sure if the 'Danda' weilding CISF hawaldars can face upto Kalashnikovs.

exactly the point ,most of the para military forces probably except for assam rifles is badly equipped with personals in bad shape.

Archer
11 Aug 06,, 08:12
How many F-16s does Hezbollah have?
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/ayaz/ayaz.htm




By Ayaz Amir

"THE Lebanese prime minister was forced to cry before media because of weak defence capability of his country and no such thing would be allowed to happen with Pakistan." This piece of wisdom comes from Pakistan's air force chief, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed.

As silly statements go, it takes the prize.


Despite its huge army, Pakistan has shown itself incapable of fighting a war for longer than 15 days. Barely halfway through the 1965 war Pakistan's straw field marshal, Ayub Khan, had had enough. He was desperate for a ceasefire. In 1971Gen Yahya and his generals fought a 17-day war and managed to lose half the country.

In 1999 the architects of Kargil -- as choice a bunch of military geniuses as any produced by the Pakistan army -- thought they were walking in the footsteps of Rommel and Manstein. They soon realized they had bitten off more than they could chew. Desperate for a way out, they urged then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to rush to Washington to seek a face-saving withdrawal.

Given these shining military exploits :biggrin: it ill-behoves a Pakistani military man to speak disparagingly about Lebanon when Lebanon -- a country scarcely bigger than Sargodha and Rawalpindi divisions combined -- has shown more guts than we can imagine.
Hezbollah has no F-16s, no anti-aircraft defences to speak of, yet it has fought the might of the Israeli army for four weeks and continues to stand up to it. No Arab army has shown as much grit, none has fought Israel this long. And far from Hezbollah breaking, it is Israel which is getting stuck in South Lebanon.

An air force chief is a responsible person. He should choose his words more carefully. Pakistan has not had the courage or decency to condemn Israel in forthright terms, our government mumbling things no one can understand and adopting a position no one can see. When we can't do the honourable thing, why say things which make us look stupid?

Pakistan has acquired international fame for being a one-phone-call country, a single Colin Powell call after Sep 11 eliciting all the concessions the US wanted, including the use of military bases. Our military government felt no qualms about handing over the Taliban's accredited ambassador to Islamabad, Mullah Zaeef, to the Americans when they attacked Afghanistan.

Zaeef may have been Hitler's ambassador but he was accredited to us and we were sworn under international law to protect him. We didn't. What moral authority do we have to speak about the troubles of another country?

Addressing Arab League foreign ministers in Beirut, the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora was overcome by emotion when speaking of Israel's aggression against his country. When was the last time a Pakistani leader was overcome by similar emotion?

We are a country at peace with Afghanistan one day and then, at the crack of a whip from Washington, involved in its destruction the next, glorifying Kashmir's freedom struggle and then overnight dancing to India's tune. India has turned the composite dialogue into a joke and yet by every word and gesture at our command we are trying to please India.

To get an idea of the battle picture in South Lebanon turn not to BBC or CNN, both little better than apologists for the Israeli army. Read the Israeli press, especially Haaretz (www.haaretz.com). More and more Israelis while still in favour of the war are questioning the way it is being conducted. The swift victory they were led to believe in has turned out to be a mirage. The Israeli army has taken heavy casualties and Hezbollah is still raining rockets on northern Israel.

As a sign of how the war is faring, Maj Gen Udi Adam, GOC Northern Command, has been replaced by Maj Gen Moshe Kaplinsky. The security cabinet has decided, after an agonizing debate, to expand the offensive in South Lebanon. Sounds suspiciously like a reinforcing of failure.

Fifteen IDF soldiers were killed on Wednesday, … "in a series of firefights across the front…" as Haaretz reports. "Twentyfive soldiers were wounded in Wednesday's actions, six seriously."

Here's another excerpt: "At around 1:40 P.M., an IDF Merkava tank was struck by an explosive device in the village of Aita al-Shaab in the western sector. The tank's four crew members were killed instantly…The kind of damage sustained by the tank (its turret was blown off) appears to indicate that the vehicle was hit by a large explosive device, but a senior Northern Command officer told Haaretz on Wednesday night that it was more likely that the Merkava had been hit by an anti-tank missile.

"Efforts to extract the tank and four dead crew members took place under heavy fire, and continued late into Wednesday night.

"The day's harshest incident occured at 2:00 P.M. when one or two anti-tank missiles were fired at an IDF force that had occupied a house in Debel. The missile strike left nine soldiers dead, including two who died on their way to the hospital, and 11 wounded, including three seriously…

"Rescue efforts again were severely hampered by intense Hezbollah gunfire."

And then tellingly: "Commanders in the sector said Wednesday night that Hezbollah guerrillas were closely following the movement of Israeli forces. They said the group is analyzing the IDF's firing positions, and doing a good job of pinpointing those locations where the forces are exposed."

This should give a flavour of the fighting. Israel has not faced anything of the kind in its entire history. Regular Arab armies it has beaten black and blue, brought Arab countries to their knees after a few days of fighting. This is different because Israel is being compelled to fight a war whose tactics are being dictated by the enemy -- Hezbollah. Israel can push in as many troops as it likes. It will face more guerrilla attacks.

This looks like the emergence of the Middle East's second Vietnam, the first being Iraq. The Americans thought their occupation of Iraq would be a smooth affair. They now know better. The Israelis thought they would vanquish Hezbollah swiftly. There have been surprises in store for them.

Only the gullible think that the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers by Hezbollah is what triggered this war. There is a growing body of evidence to show that Israel had planned this assault for a long time. That it hasn't turned out the way it figured is a different matter.

What we don't know is what the Bush administration is up to. For all we know it could be preparing to bomb Iran. Mind-boggling thought but the war party in Washington is capable of anything.

But enough to drive one to despair is the utter helplessness of the Muslim world. A rabbit wouldn't be more transfixed by the headlights of a car as Arab and Muslim leaders are by the threat of American power. No one is saying they should send their armies in aid of Hezbollah. But at least they can speak out louder than they have so far.

Time was when Zulfikar Ali Bhutto sent Pakistani fighter pilots to Syria during the 1973 Arab-Israeli war ( a mistake I can't imagine Air Chief Marshal Tanvir making in a hurry), something which the Syrians have not forgotten. Now we can't even bring ourselves to say the right words about Lebanon. These are not proud days to be a Pakistani.

Hezbollah has no F-16s but it is running rings around one of the best armies in the world. We can have 500 F-16s in our air force but given the crisis of resolve we face, we will remain a country ready to jump at the sound of a single phone call.

Ok the usual stupid "yaaay the evil Zionists are getting defeated" agit-prop aside, here we have a Pakistani commentator being pretty direct about Paks military exploits.

Archer
11 Aug 06,, 08:12
I disagree, the CISF are just O.K. There are many issues but I would not like to discuss on the internet.

Exactly what I was trying to say LT. The CISF are ok to middling, but they are not keystone cops.

Karthik
11 Aug 06,, 08:31
Pakistan has acquired international fame for being a one-phone-call country, a single Colin Powell call after Sep 11 eliciting all the concessions the US wanted, including the use of military bases. Our military government felt no qualms about handing over the Taliban's accredited ambassador to Islamabad, Mullah Zaeef, to the Americans when they attacked Afghanistan.

Nor were they even aware of the operations that the Americans were mounting to pin-point Taliban hideouts in their country.

America is an important 'A' in the three A's on which Pakistan exists.

Archer
11 Aug 06,, 08:31
I am not sure if the 'Danda' weilding CISF hawaldars can face upto Kalashnikovs.

The CISF are not danda weilding. They weild INSAS, SLRs and even LMGs. All units are armed proportionate to their responsibility- if the objective is crowd control, then they will have tear gas, danda, and a cane/ fibreglass sheild, with a tear gas vehicle (RAF). If its a very tense/ possibly violent situation, they will deploy with small arms.
On airport security, vital area security- I have seen CISF (whose junior cadre are quite reasonably fit and alert) armed with INSAS and even SLR. On occasion, I have seen a LMG- inside a vehicle, presumably for a checkpoint).


Ogonred your personal swipe at me,but u did see what LT wrote that.Dont let your love for your motherland blind you

1. It was not a personal swipe, it was a reflection on your posts.

2. My love for my motherland, has nothing to do with my comment on the CISF. I have observed them & had the opportunity to do so, like all paramils they have issues- but overall, they are fairly competent at their job. They do have issues at some PSUs in the North/ NE wherein CISF people have been inducted for graft & slackness. But the same can be said of many paramils.

3. LT wrote they are "ok". Thats exactly the point. They are ok, not commandos or elite troops, but far above the average pandu or "state police" cadre.

4. LeT - all the hype apart- has been defeated by state cops (Ayodhya siege), Delhi Police (Parliament attack) and state cadre policemen who dont receieve a fraction of the training CISF do or small arms practise. I dont see why massive CISF deployments on Nuclear zones (and these deployments will be substantial) will be worse. In fact it will be far better.

I have had occasion to go through CISF screening, and it was fairly thorough- I and a top honcho were not treated deferentially or cut slack. It was a sea change from earlier state cadre people who performed the same duty.

Not to mention that most of the CISF people on duty were in their 20's-to mid 30's, and bar a couple of commandants at a desk- none were potbellied. They carried themselves well, had modern weapons, and were courteous but professional.

5. Attacking a Nuke plant sounds easy- its not. To actually cause substantial damage (ie to the local area by blowing it up), you need time & substantial explosives. A few RPGs or a few pounds of RDX wont do.

Given the above- I dont buy that the LeT can just waltz into some nuclear installation & blow it up. Whilst overcomplacence is definitely not required, nor is an objective appraisal wrong.


exactly the point ,most of the para military forces probably except for assam rifles is badly equipped with personals in bad shape.

Good lord, at least research something before you speak & then you will take umbrage at any disparaging comment. The CISF, BSF are fairly decently equipped. They have ok personnel too- its leadership at the middle and higher levels which has been lacking, but is being addressed. The ITBP is also paramil btw- its an exception rather than the rule, but it shows that the term paramil does not necessarily mean bad standards.

If your leadership is lazy, corrupt or whatever, cadre will react likewise, the paramils may have some time to go (and loads of effort) till they approach IA standards on average, but they are fairly ok for their job- which is to guard vital areas/ choke points and screen individuals. Lastly, if you have to comment on them- look at leadership & deployment, not weaponry- which is *not* an issue for them.

Vepr
11 Aug 06,, 15:39
I am not sure if the 'Danda' weilding CISF hawaldars can face upto Kalashnikovs.
Not all installations have danda wala hawaldars. BARC gate has around two machine gun nests on the top. This is what I saw when I went there last. Also there are men with carbines or INSAS. There are also people who move about in plain dress with a concealed weapon.

This is waht I saw. There may also be electronic security devices.

The level of security depends on the type of installation.

Samudra
11 Aug 06,, 16:00
NSG to be deployed at Kalpakkam power station (http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IE920060811050851&Page=T&Title=Southern+News+-+Tamil+Nadu&Topic=0)

Tronic
11 Aug 06,, 17:11
now we talking... ;)

lemontree
12 Aug 06,, 05:41
NSG to be deployed at Kalpakkam power station (http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IE920060811050851&Page=T&Title=Southern+News+-+Tamil+Nadu&Topic=0)

now we talking...
That is bloody silly, one does not use a special force to do a watchmans' job, the CISF was created for providing security to public sector enterprises. The NSG is an anti-terror strike force, so it must be used for that purpose. But who will explain this to the farts taking decisions? :mad:

SLASH
12 Aug 06,, 06:39
That is bloody silly, one does not use a special force to do a watchmans' job, the CISF was created for providing security to public sector enterprises. The NSG is an anti-terror strike force, so it must be used for that purpose. But who will explain this to the farts taking decisions? :mad:

LT,
I dont think they'll be posted in great numbers and these threats need to be taken seriously.But you're right instead of using the special forces we should provide the CISF with state of the art technology.Ask Israel,Brits or US for help if need be. :)

bull
12 Aug 06,, 07:02
CISF for crowd control,
BSF to nab veerapan,
NSG to guard vital stations

we have so many such lists.

Archer
12 Aug 06,, 07:38
That is bloody silly, one does not use a special force to do a watchmans' job, the CISF was created for providing security to public sector enterprises. The NSG is an anti-terror strike force, so it must be used for that purpose. But who will explain this to the farts taking decisions? :mad:

Heh, my thoughts exactly, first they take the NSG and have its paramil derived soldiers (at least the rangers were kept for CT ops) guard our potbellied politicians and now its this..

But the report may be incorrect....all it mentions is that CISF honchos met the Kalpakkam people, but the headline says NSG :rolleyes:

Archer
24 Aug 06,, 13:58
From BR (lurked there a bit today)

Poster 1: "enqyoob"

CISF

Last time we landed at Mumbai, and came through the domestic airport terminal, these kids were the ones standing there.

4AM: A smartly-turned out young man, looks carefully through ticket etc, straightens, smiles, and says:

"Welcome, sir!"

Super-efficient is good. Super-efficient with courtesy is great. Super efficient with courtesy AND a friendly smile - now THAT'S Excellence.

2. "SIngha"

some of the toughest young types in CISF seem to get posted in important airports like delhi. they are hungry, sharp eyed, miss little, a very serious demeanour(no fake hi-hellos) and look like they have ample practise with their pistols. some of the ITBP types in kolkata airport looked hyperfit and ready to use the Sterling at a moments notice while the local pandu's were comfortably sitting and sharing conversation.

3. ASPuar: "Dealt with CISF Security at Taj Mahal.

Excellent. An ASI frisked us, thanked us, and told us to have a good time.

I was quite impressed."

Personally interacting with CISF has been a sea change from local cops..

So imo, they'll do a decent job of perimeter security at vital areas..they are decently competent.