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santosh tiwari
25 Jul 06,, 11:01
While Mumbai is lymping back to normalcy and condolences are comming from various quarters around the world . Baloch community , one of the few well wishers of India in South Asia , maintain brotherly relation with Indian community has strongly condemned Mumbai bombing , in a touching statement Dr.Wahid Baloch of BSO-NA ( Baloch Socieity of North America) said " Baloch people stand by their Indian brothers and sisters and extend their full support and help to assist the Government of India and the bereaved families to overcome this disaster".

Baloch are concerned about the role played by ISI and Pakistani Millitary in the south Asian peace and security , as they have experienced kidnapping , murder of Baloch activists in their home land . "We offer heartfelt condolences and sympathies to the people of India, and the bereaved families at this hour of national grief," Said Dr. Wahid Baloch, President Of Baloch Society of North America (BSO-NA) said .

General Secretary of the newly formed Government of Balochistan (GOB) in Exile, Mir Azaad Khan Baloch, on Tuesday sent his condolences to India’s Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh over the devastation wrought by terrorist attacks in Mumbai.

GOB (Exile) condemned the Pakistani spy agency, Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) for the terrorist attacks in India, an ally of Balochistan in its “Baloch War of Independence”. Baloch offered to cooperate with the Indian authorities to capture the suspected terrorists.


In a message to Prime Minister he said " The Government of Balochistan (In Exile) and the Baloch people extend our heartfelt condolences and sympathies to your Excellency, to the people of India, and the bereaved families at this hour of national grief. We are confident that your Government and the people of India will bear this tragedy with fortitude. " He warned Indians about Pakistan's Motives for destablizing India " Pakistan's motive for committing this crime against humanity is evident – to destablize India" .
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2006/07/baloch-diaspora-condemn-mumbai-train.html

667medic
25 Jul 06,, 11:18
Both Indians and Balochis are the victims of Pak terrorism.
Insha Allah, Balochistan banega azad mulk....

Tronic
25 Jul 06,, 12:32
lol... yea... let the Balochi people vote for their freedom... lol... we should really push for this... :biggrin:

lemontree
25 Jul 06,, 12:51
Insha Allah, Balochistan banega azad mulk....
:biggrin:

santosh tiwari
26 Jul 06,, 00:19
lol... yea... let the Balochi people vote for their freedom... lol... we should really push for this... :biggrin:
:biggrin: :cool:

bull
26 Jul 06,, 06:25
Both Indians and Balochis are the victims of Pak terrorism.
Insha Allah, Balochistan banega azad mulk....

saala, u sound like a 100% jehadi... :eek:

667medic
26 Jul 06,, 06:36
saala, u sound like a 100% jehadi... :eek:
Nafrat kartha hoon tuj jaise Kafiron ko dekh kar :mad: :mad: :mad:

Samudra
26 Jul 06,, 06:59
Nafrat kartha hoon tuj jaise Kafiron ko dekh kar :mad: :mad: :mad:

Whats with these Tamil people learning the infidel language Hindi?

I denounce you in the name of Dravida...:rolleyes:

Jay
26 Jul 06,, 07:09
Whats with these Tamil people learning the infidel language Hindi?

I denounce you in the name of Dravida...:rolleyes:
Saala, Tu koun humko denounce karne keliye :biggrin: :biggrin:


P.s : just kidding, Medic you are risking your tamilhood (if there is one) now by speaking this infedel language. :mad: There is no language but Tamil, the greatest and the bestest :rolleyes: of all :mad: :tongue:

Oh and I forgot, Peace be upon him (Agasthiyar)

Samudra
26 Jul 06,, 07:35
Yea, and here I was risking the wooden scales hitting so hard on my knuckles while trying to abuse the infidel language as best as I could.From my grade 2!

French rescued me in XI!

Ray
26 Jul 06,, 08:04
Chaps,it is good to be a Tamil, but then we also exist ;) :)

667medic
26 Jul 06,, 10:29
Saala, Tu koun humko denounce karne keliye :biggrin: :biggrin:


P.s : just kidding, Medic you are risking your tamilhood (if there is one) now by speaking this infedel language. :mad: There is no language but Tamil, the greatest and the bestest :rolleyes: of all :mad: :tongue:

Oh and I forgot, Peace be upon him (Agasthiyar)
Oh shyt, now Mullah Ramadoss (PBUH) is gonna put a Fatwa on me :eek:

santosh tiwari
26 Jul 06,, 10:39
in a touching statement Dr.Wahid Baloch of BSO-NA ( Baloch Socieity of North America) said " Baloch people stand by their Indian brothers and sisters and extend their full support and help to assist the Government of India and the bereaved families to overcome this disaster".
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2006/07/baloch-diaspora-condemn-mumbai-train.html
the way Bhai Wahid Baloch said in his touching statement that " Baloch people stand by their Indian brothers and sisters................." india would also try do her duty as a true brother and help her Baloch brothers and sisters in their bad time. as Bhai W. Baloch is a reputed political man and also he is President Of Baloch Society of North America (BSO-NA), india wont hesitate to support him by all "political" means. india would not only give them political support but also help her poor Baloch brothers and sisters by economic means and would fix atleast $20Mn-$30Mn every month for them. also as Bhai W. Baloch is a “political” man, this money would straight go in his hands so that he may help our Baloch brothers and sisters by all ways.

what i mean, there is nothing wrong if a country give political support to any political man of the world. and also there is nothing wrong if india gives economic support to poor balochi people. and the most important thing in the world politics, if someone want political friendship, he would get full chance for political friendship unless he is not a terrorist and as Bhai W. Baloch is a political man, india would help him by all political and economic means.

Tronic
26 Jul 06,, 19:47
Nafrat kartha hoon tuj jaise Kafiron ko dekh kar :mad: :mad: :mad:
Doodh Maango geh toh Kheer thenge...
Kashmir Maango geh toh Cheer thenge...

:biggrin: :biggrin:

667medic
27 Jul 06,, 03:39
Doodh Maango geh toh Kheer thenge...
Kashmir Maango geh toh Cheer thenge...

:biggrin: :biggrin:
Allah talah tere madad karen :mad: :mad:

Archer
27 Jul 06,, 05:17
Lol!!

santosh tiwari
29 Jul 06,, 11:20
Lol!!
:biggrin:

gilgamesh
30 Jul 06,, 16:19
Saala, Tu koun humko denounce karne keliye :biggrin: :biggrin:


P.s : just kidding, Medic you are risking your tamilhood (if there is one) now by speaking this infedel language. :mad: There is no language but Tamil, the greatest and the bestest :rolleyes: of all :mad: :tongue:

Oh and I forgot, Peace be upon him (Agasthiyar)



Roll a drum filled with stones down the hill, thats Tamil for you! :biggrin:

Why did I just press self destruct? :biggrin:

667medic
30 Jul 06,, 17:36
Roll a drum filled with stones down the hill, thats Tamil for you! :biggrin:

Why did I just press self destruct? :biggrin:
Sootha pothu da karadi payale :mad: :mad:

Ray
30 Jul 06,, 18:13
Gentlemen,

No Greek please! ;)

Tronic
30 Jul 06,, 18:56
Sootha pothu da karadi payale :mad: :mad:
:confused: .. feel free to translate...

Jay
31 Jul 06,, 00:54
Basically, Medic asked the Bear to shut up, in a nicer way :biggrin:

Tronic
31 Jul 06,, 01:03
ahh ok

gunnut
31 Jul 06,, 04:32
I thought the title was:

Baloch disperses condoms

I really should get my eyes checked out.

Tronic
31 Jul 06,, 05:17
:biggrin:

bull
31 Jul 06,, 06:59
Sootha pothu da karadi payale :mad: :mad:

Enna thampi..enna prashnam..njan oru thadavu solliyal athu nooru thadavu solla matiri...jagratheeee

667medic
31 Jul 06,, 08:37
Enna thampi..enna prashnam..njan oru thadavu solliyal athu nooru thadavu solla matiri...jagratheeee
:biggrin:

Ray
31 Jul 06,, 08:52
The truth about the Gwadar port project


Part I

The government claims that the Gwadar project will change the face of the earth and the fate of Balochistan; that it will turn the area into a special economic zone where banks will open their branches, five star hotels will be built, offshore banking will begin, factories, warehouses and storage will be set up, and the tourism industry will be promoted in the area. An export processing zone will be set up making Gwadar a regional hub of trade and investment activities, a very attractive place for direct foreign investment. Most important of all, it is regarded as a panacea for the social, economic and political problems of Balochistan, although the people of the province have realised the fallacious nature of these claims. It is also considered of strategic importance, an alternative to Persian Gulf ports, and a gateway to Central Asia. A new addition to the potentials of the project is that it will be an energy corridor for China.

There are no facts and figures to support these claims or to indicate how the benefits will be realised. The ground realities are different from the official claims. The facts are briefly as follows.

The Gwadar port is already a failed project. A mini-port was built in 1988-92 at a cost of Rs1,623 million including the foreign exchange component of Belgian Franks of 1,427 million, equivalent to Rs749 million, arranged by the contractor. The port facilities included 3 berths of 3.5 meter depth capable of accommodating ships of up to 1000 DWT, one 80 ton crane, two 25 ton cranes each, a dredger and support equipment. No ship worth the name ever called the port. No investigations were carried out to identify the causes of the failure of the port which still hold good.

The viability of a port depends on its hinterland. Gwadar has none. The area behind the coast for a 600 km depth is barren, and comprises a desert and hilly terrain. It does not generate or attract a single ton of sea worthy traffic. Hence all exports or imports will come from and go to other areas of the country.

So far, Gwadar is linked with Karachi only by a 653-km-long coastal highway which takes off from N-25 between Sonmiani and Uthal and goes 80 km west of Gwadar up to the Iran border. The correct distance between Karachi and Gwadar is not known. It varies from source to source. A most favourable figure of 650 km is used for evaluation. Other links are under construction. All traffic to and from Gwadar will have to pass through Karachi and incur an additional cost of carrying goods for another 650 km by road. No sane person will by-pass Karachi just to avail port facilities at Gwadar 650 km away. The other two links, namely, Gwadar-Ratodero motorway and Gwadar-Turbat-Hoshab-Panjgur-Surab road, are under construction and will take years to complete.

Even after completion of under-construction road links and proposed rail links, all areas proposed to be served by Gwadar port will remain closer to Karachi. The nearest point of transit trade of Afghanistan and Central Asian States is Chaman. Its distance from Gwadar by the shortest route (Gwadar-Panjgur-Surab-Quetta-Chaman) will be 1,066 km as compared to 816 km from Karachi to Chaman, 250 km longer than from Karachi. The nearest point where Gwadar is proposed to be linked with the rest of the country is Ratodero on N-55 (Indus Highway). Its distance from Gwadar is 892 km as compared to 494 km from Karachi, a difference of 398 km.

In the case of a rail link, the distance of 515 km between Gwadar and Dalbandin via Panjgur is an underestimation. The direct distance by road from Gwadar to Panjgur is 411 km. From Panjgur to Dalbandin, the air route distance on the map is 212 km. Thus the distance from Gwadar to Dalbandin will be more than 623 km. Quetta is another 343 km from Dalbandin and Chaman is 142 km from Quetta. If the distance between Gwadar and Dalbandin is taken as 515 km, the distance of Chaman from Gwadar by rail will be 1,000 km as compared to 1,003 km from Karachi via Rohri, a difference of only three kilometres which will be more than offset by higher speeds on the main line. If the distance from Gwadar to Dalbandin is taken as 623 km, which is more likely to be the case, the distance to Chaman will be 105 km longer.

It may be noted that Karachi and Chaman are located on the same longitude and Karachi and Gwadar on the same latitude. As such, Karachi Chaman and Karachi Gwadar make two sides of a right angle triangle. Gwadar-Chaman is the hypotenuse of the triangle which will be longer than any of the two sides. This means that the distance between Gwadar and Chaman will remain longer no matter how direct and straight a route is followed.

It may also be noted that three roads linking Gwadar with the road network of the country join N-25 (Karachi-Kalat-Quetta-Chaman) at Uthal, Khuzdar and Surab and km 120, 385 and 477 from Karachi respectively. In comparison to the coastal highway, the 650 km Gwadar Khuzdar road will save the 148 km distance to Quetta whereas the Gwadar-Panjgur-Surab route (727 km) will save only 15 km over the Gwadar Khuzdar road. The relative costs and benefits of competitive road facilities do not seem to have been considered at all.

Besides the increase in the cost of transport because of longer distances, unit rates would also be higher for movements to and from Gwadar as compared to Karachi. The latter is a big industrial and commercial city and generates a large volume of passenger and goods traffic. A large number of goods' vehicles are always available and return loads are often available to and from upcountry. Therefore, charges are competitive and minimal. In the case of Gwadar, imports and exports, if any, would not be so synchronised as to provide return loads to all trucks visiting the town. Transporters would cover round trip costs from one direction. As such, unit rates could be 50 to 100 per cent higher than for Karachi.

Although roads have their own utility and are the sole means of transport for upcountry movements, water transport, is more than 10 times cheaper than road transport. Where both land and water transport are available, water transport would have a far greater cost advantage over land transport. Movement of many bulky commodities which cannot bear the cost of land transport would become feasible by sea. Existing berths in Gwadar can handle ships of 1000 DWT.

Therefore, goods to and from Gwadar can be carried by sea to Karachi and distributed to inland and foreign destinations, at far less cost than the coastal highway. If one is to indulge in such absurdities as to import goods at Gwadar and carry them to Karachi for onward distribution, it should be done at a lower cost by using coastal shipping rather than road transport.

To be concluded



The writer is a transport economist and served as chief of the National Transport Research Centre in Islamabad. Email: abdul.majeed@dsl.net.pk

Part II

The Afghan transit traffic passing through Karachi makes up hardly 5-10 per cent of Pakistan’s exports and imports. No ship would call on Gwadar port for transit cargo and Karachi for Pakistani cargo. If Afghan transit cargo is forced to shift to Gwadar, the advantage of distance which Pakistan has over Iranian ports will be lost and Afghanistan would prefer to use Iranian ports of Bunder Abbas and Chah Bahar where transportation links are far better than Pakistan.

There will be no saving in shipping costs by using Gwadar. Shipping charges are more often than not the same for a region and a group of ports. For a ship coming out of the Suez Canal, there is little difference in distance to the ports at Karachi, Bombay or Madras. For calling at Gwadar port, the ship may have to turn back a little. The time and distance would not be less than Karachi.

The only saving in distance will be to and from the Persian Gulf ports. Since there is no consumption or production in Gwadar, all cargo would have to be carried to Karachi and further inland. In this case, movement by sea will be substituted by road transport which is 10 times more expensive.

The point about the Gwadar port providing an outlet to China is misleading. Karachi ports are nearer and can provide better facilities if there is any traffic to and from China. China is linked with Pakistan by the Karakorum highway, across the Khunjrab pass which is 17,000 feet above sea level and is snow covered most of the year. The border is open for 3-4 months in a year. If China had any need for a port in Pakistan, she could have used the Karachi port. The fact of the matter is that the south-west of China is as barren, sparsely populated, and under-developed as the north-east of Pakistan adjoining China. There is little economic activity for more than 1,000 km on either side of the border. Most of the trade with China takes place by sea. Another port in Pakistan, with a more difficult approach, would be of little help to China.

Handling of transit trade of the Central Asian States is another faux-pas. In the first instance, the Central Asian States are double landlocked. Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan can be approached through China while Tajikistan and Uzbekistan can be approached through Afghanistan. The use of Pakistani ports by these countries would have to make transit arrangements not only with Pakistan but also with China and Afghanistan. Goods through China would have to pass through the Khunjerab pass which is open for three to four months in a year. Trade through Afghanistan will pass through Quetta and Peshawar which are already connected with Karachi which is closer than Gwadar, with well established means of transport and communications. Had there been any potential of transit trade by these countries, they would have used Karachi port.

The economies of the Central Asian States are quite small. Their population is nearly half the size of Pakistan and the GDP is about 60 per cent of Pakistan. However, their exports and imports are of the same size as of Pakistan, but most of their foreign trade is among CIS states. They are also linked by rail with Moscow, and East and West Europe. There is thus little potential of transit trade through Pakistan.

The wish list of the authorities includes shipping related industries, oil storage, refinery and petrochemicals, export processing and industrial zones. Since there is no local market, anything produced here would require additional transhipment costs for movement to other places. Not worthwhile.

For location of industry, one or more factors of production should be available at a cost lower than at other places or there should be savings in distribution costs by way of proximity to the market. Gwadar does not have any factor of production, nor is there any market. Even basic necessities of life like water, power, and communication facilities are not available. There is no raw material of any kind, no skilled or unskilled labour, not even population. Existence of barren land and harsh climate are not sufficient to attract any kind of industry to such a location. It is not possible to import everything from outside and export products. No industrialist is going to risk his capital at such a barren place. If any industry is established with government incentives, it would be uncompetitive and suffer losses.

(i) On the basis of economic and operational considerations, the Gwadar port project is a non-starter. No commercial ship is ever likely to call the port, no matter what level of facilities are provided. Handling of transit trade of Afghanistan, the Central Asian States and China is out of the question. The location of industry is a pipedream.

(ii) When the port is not operational, all other projects, plans and programmes, based on busy port activity, will fall to the ground like a house of cards. Money being spent haphazardly on public sponsored projects is going to be wasted. At the end of the day, there will be nothing but disappointment.

(iii) If, to justify the actions of the authorities, operation of the port is forced artificially by tax exemptions, duty rebates or requiring government controlled imports and exports to be made through Gwadar, the port can become a dumping ground of foreign goods and a smugglers den. There will be loss of revenue to the government and damage to the local industry and the economy as a whole. If this is the objective, it can be achieved at any nearby place without any investment.

(iv) The reason why poor countries are not developing in spite of huge grants and loans from international institutions and developed countries is because it is a waste of money on useless projects. Investment is made to generate income and create employment. If we invest Rs100 and earn Rs110, it is development. If we earn Rs90 only, we are getting poorer. This is the case with most of the public sector projects and Gwadar port is no exception.

(v) Development of a place or an area is not an objective in itself. It is improvement of the lives of the people that matters. Therefore, the best course would be to improve the capabilities of the people of Gwadar. Their supplies and products can be carried to and from Karachi in small ships, with no extra capital cost and very low operating costs.

(vi) Transport is not a thing of personal use like a palatial house or a fancy dress of which one can feel proud. It is an intermediate good, a cost item in the process of production, which should be minimised. There is no use in investing money to do something which can be done at nominal cost without any investment. This is not development.

(vii) The investment on port and related projects is exceeding Rs100 billion. Its interest cost at 10 per cent will be Rs10 billion per year at least. To earn Rs10 billion, there will have to be a turnover of Rs100 billion or more. Would facilities at Gwadar create that much activity? Not possible by any means. The chances are that after investing Rs100 billion, the government will have to spend Rs10 billion per year on the maintenance of those facilities. Today the biggest drain on national resources are so-called development projects like Gwadar port.

(viii) Then why there is so much enthusiasm? Fools rush where angels dare not tread. There are vested interests, consultants and contractors. There is money for everyone in the implementation of projects. It is none of their concern if such projects are viable or not. The authorities, who are presenting the project at international forums and to rulers of Middle East countries, must have something at stake.

Concluded

The writer is a transport economist and served as chief of the National Transport Research Centre in Islamabad. Email: abdul.majeed@dsl.net.pk

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=17800

Ray
31 Jul 06,, 08:55
Read the above post and guess what the Balochis will feel about the same!

667medic
31 Jul 06,, 12:23
Read the above post and guess what the Balochis will feel about the same!
Sir, if Gwadar is not viable, why would USA want it :confused:

Samudra
31 Jul 06,, 13:15
Whats not viable for Pakistan maybe viable to the USA - if and when they dont need or want the Paks around?

667medic
31 Jul 06,, 14:25
Whats not viable for Pakistan maybe viable to the USA - if and when they dont need or want the Paks around?
Probably to burn Iran's ass through Balochistan :confused:

Ray
31 Jul 06,, 18:59
Sir, if Gwadar is not viable, why would USA want it

For Tazhakistan - Afghanistan - Pakistan (TAP) Oil pipeline.

It has a deep sea harbour and ideal for tankers.

Further, no Chinese to snoop into the ME.