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Tronic
23 Jul 06,, 15:34
Gun-toting women take on militants

Luv Puri

Many are enrolling in the Village Defence Committees for weapons training

http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/23/images/2006072301701101.jpg

Bafliaz: Women in this terrain of the Pir Panjal mountains have found a way to combat militancy they have taken to the gun. Giving a different dimension to anti-militancy operations women are increasingly enlisting themselves in Village Defence Committees (VDCs) and getting trained in the use of weapons.

This is also being seen as a revolt against the societal curbs imposed by religious extremists and militants in the last few years.

And, each household has a tale to tell as to why they have resorted to this.

Gulzar Bi's son went missing five years ago. Thirteen-year-old Mohammed Yasin was recruited by a militant commander. Her pleas to get him back went in vain. "Tell me what is the alternative before me. I have lost my son but I would never allow them to harm the rest of my family," she says.

Interference in the socio-economic life of the people too has had a bearing on their sudden aggressiveness. Some time ago, militants launched a massive campaign to enforce the wearing of veil. And this in part contributed to the lowering of the education standard of girls.

Feeling empowered

Taslima (24) says that "by learning to handle weapons we feel empowered and our sense of insecurity has definitely lessened. We have realised that silence only breeds fear."

It has not taken much time for them to master the use of weapons.

The archaic .303 rifle, much heavier than automatic weapons, is handled with ease. Some are adept at using the AK-47 and the SLR as well.

Mohammad Aslam, a VDC member, who trained them, says: "Women of our hilly belt have been equal partners with men in every sphere. Militants have often tried to enforce the veil campaign in this belt, but it has been fiercely resisted by them."

More VDCs coming up

Women VDCs were formed first in the Marrah area but now the idea is fast catching up in other areas.

The gun-toting women have often repulsed many a militant attack.

Two years ago, militants attacked a family in the Teli Katha area of Surankote after men had gone out for work.

Surprise

To their surprise, three women stood their ground for over an hour forcing the militants to flee. Though 13 civilians were killed, the women saved the lives of many children and elderly.
http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/23/stories/2006072301701100.htm

hehe... now thats what i'm talking about... the terrorists are probably already pissing in their pants... :biggrin:

Confed999
23 Jul 06,, 15:47
Good story...

Tronic
23 Jul 06,, 18:24
yes, very good story... its great to see when women rise up especially in a religion where they are forcefully oppressed by some mullahs... very symbolic indeed...

Ray
23 Jul 06,, 18:41
Great!

Tronic
23 Jul 06,, 20:48
btw, what rifle is that lady in the back holding... It can't be an INSAS... I mean, would the army issue INSAS's to VDC's???

troung
23 Jul 06,, 21:03
Fal

Tronic
23 Jul 06,, 21:14
ah yes, ofcourse...

cottage cheese
25 Jul 06,, 05:42
btw, what rifle is that lady in the back holding... It can't be an INSAS... I mean, would the army issue INSAS's to VDC's???

Old SLR1A not FAL...with the army retiring its stock of SLRs, they can afford to hand out a few for the needy.
The FAL remains in active duty - that too only with the para-military forces.

Tronic
25 Jul 06,, 05:50
Old SLR1A not FAL...with the army retiring its stock of SLRs, they cna afford to hand out a few for the needy.
The FAL remains in active duty - that too only with the para-military forces.
how the heck can you tell them apart??? the SLR, FAL, INSAS and Galil all look pretty much the same to me... :(

veera8
25 Jul 06,, 05:54
may be for time being this arrangment will work ..but it has got is negative aspects

# increasingly the terroists will now target women and many innocent women will be caught in this process
# bringing weapons into society is the first step for anarchy ...may be till the terroisrm ends it can be useful,but retriving back the weapons from the people is almost impossibe task ....
# once the terrosim ends,people now used to the luxury of holding guns may also brandish their weapons to bully others and it make take a very nasty turn .

the GOI should take utmost care that these weapons provided for genuine reasons will not fall into hands of wrong persons .

lemontree
25 Jul 06,, 06:20
how the heck can you tell them apart??? the SLR, FAL, INSAS and Galil all look pretty much the same to me... :(
There is a lot of difference. The SLR1A is a copy of the British L1A1 so the British L1A1 and Indian 1A look the same, but a FN FAL has differences in the charging handle and the muzzle.
The INSAS however, does looks like the FNC, and the Galil is quite different compare to the others. See the differences in the pictures below:

cottage cheese
25 Jul 06,, 06:25
how the heck can you tell them apart??? the SLR, FAL, INSAS and Galil all look pretty much the same to me... :(

The most obvious thing would be the fact the India uses too few FALs to be for them to be appearing in the hands of VDC's.

Technical:
The Indian SLR is based on the British L1A1SLR which is a licensed and significantly altered variant of the original belgian FN FAL. Ours would be, thus, a grandson of the FAL. The Indian SLR, to confuse things even more, has been slightly altered from the British one generally to suit Indian manufacturing methods and expediencies. To distinguish a FAL and an SLR you take the most obvious- virtually all FALs in the Indian inventory are the basic all black run of the mill FN product. The SLR will have wooden or the horrible brick-red synthetic furniture.

The SLR is also significantly longer and has a long slotted flash dissipator with bayonet lug. The FAL as a slightly shorter muzzle section with a fat stubby muzzle compensator/flash hider with perforations instead of slots(this is the FN practice and the INSAS borrows from it) This device is (at 22mm) significantly of larger diameter than the barrel- you'll notice this instantly.

The FAL foresight ears are not perforated like the SLR

The SLR has a folding cocking lever while the FAL has a non folding cylindrical knob. The SLR has two ventilation slots per side on the fore grip. The FAL has three. The FAL fore grip is also significantly slimmer and has a bipod housing groove running all the full length of the bottom of the fore grip.

The FAL pistol grip has a rounded section while the SLR has the front area flattened out.

The Indian SLR has a large collar at the joint area between the stock and the lower receiver. This is missing in the British SLR and the FAL.

There are lots of other minor and major internal differences but I guess this will suffice.

As for the INSAS and GALIL, they are entirely different weapons - Easiest would be to look at the foreend as that naturally be what most people would see prominently. As opposed to the FAL and SLR, the INSAS and GALIL have an exposed gas tube above the barrel running about 4-5 inches. Lots to talk about - I kinda feel lazy so I'll leave it at that....

Confed999
25 Jul 06,, 06:47
# increasingly the terroists will now target women and many innocent women will be caught in this process
They're targeting them and their families already, or they would not feel this is needed. Either way, they have the right to defend themselves.

# bringing weapons into society is the first step for anarchy ...may be till the terroisrm ends it can be useful,but retriving back the weapons from the people is almost impossibe task ....
# once the terrosim ends,people now used to the luxury of holding guns may also brandish their weapons to bully others and it make take a very nasty turn .

Had 'em here for hundreds of years. :)

veera8
25 Jul 06,, 07:25
They're targeting them and their families already, or they would not feel this is needed. Either way, they have the right to defend themselves.

Had 'em here for hundreds of years. :)

Gun culture may be working fine with american society ,but it back fired especially in Afganistan ...after the common Afghan people with american assiatance drived out USSR,the presence of weapons in the society further eroded their society ....
My only fears are how to pull back the common Kasmiri people out of Gun culture once the terroism ends ...

Tronic
25 Jul 06,, 12:31
oh please... Afghanistan is not the brightest example... they were screwed over by foreign countries...


There is a lot of difference. The SLR1A is a copy of the British L1A1 so the British L1A1 and Indian 1A look the same, but a FN FAL has differences in the charging handle and the muzzle.
The INSAS however, does looks like the FNC, and the Galil is quite different compare to the others. See the differences in the pictures below:
hmm... yea... but now the Galil looks more like the AK-47... lol



The most obvious thing would be the fact the India uses too few FALs to be for them to be appearing in the hands of VDC's.

Technical:
The Indian SLR is based on the British L1A1SLR which is a licensed and significantly altered variant of the original belgian FN FAL. Ours would be, thus, a grandson of the FAL. The Indian SLR, to confuse things even more, has been slightly altered from the British one generally to suit Indian manufacturing methods and expediencies. To distinguish a FAL and an SLR you take the most obvious- virtually all FALs in the Indian inventory are the basic all black run of the mill FN product. The SLR will have wooden or the horrible brick-red synthetic furniture.

The SLR is also significantly longer and has a long slotted flash dissipator with bayonet lug. The FAL as a slightly shorter muzzle section with a fat stubby muzzle compensator/flash hider with perforations instead of slots(this is the FN practice and the INSAS borrows from it) This device is (at 22mm) significantly of larger diameter than the barrel- you'll notice this instantly.

The FAL foresight ears are not perforated like the SLR

The SLR has a folding cocking lever while the FAL has a non folding cylindrical knob. The SLR has two ventilation slots per side on the fore grip. The FAL has three. The FAL fore grip is also significantly slimmer and has a bipod housing groove running all the full length of the bottom of the fore grip.

The FAL pistol grip has a rounded section while the SLR has the front area flattened out.

The Indian SLR has a large collar at the joint area between the stock and the lower receiver. This is missing in the British SLR and the FAL.

There are lots of other minor and major internal differences but I guess this will suffice.

As for the INSAS and GALIL, they are entirely different weapons - Easiest would be to look at the foreend as that naturally be what most people would see prominently. As opposed to the FAL and SLR, the INSAS and GALIL have an exposed gas tube above the barrel running about 4-5 inches. Lots to talk about - I kinda feel lazy so I'll leave it at that....

lol... you're a real gun enthusiat aren't you??? really though... thanks a plenty for all that information... yea, I see a lot of the differences you pointed out... maybe next time when I see the real thing, i'll be able to point out what it is... lol...

lemontree
25 Jul 06,, 12:47
lol... you're a real gun enthusiat aren't you??? really though... thanks a plenty for all that information... yea, I see a lot of the differences you pointed out... maybe next time when I see the real thing, i'll be able to point out what it is... lol...
That is an understatement, cottage cheese wants to start a weapons R&D/ development programme. These are the type of guys who should be part of DRDO and not people without any passion for the job.

Captain Drunk
25 Jul 06,, 18:16
Gun culture may be working fine with american society ,but it back fired especially in Afganistan ...after the common Afghan people with american assiatance drived out USSR,the presence of weapons in the society further eroded their society ....
My only fears are how to pull back the common Kasmiri people out of Gun culture once the terroism ends ...

You're quite right about that, especially if they're religiously obsessed peoples with the spirit of 'jihad' in them. Theres an old Afghan saying that goes :

"To the Afghan, one can only attain a peace of mind, when one is at war." : P

Dreadnought
25 Jul 06,, 18:19
http://www.hindu.com/2006/07/23/stories/2006072301701100.htm

hehe... now thats what i'm talking about... the terrorists are probably already pissing in their pants... :biggrin:

Bravo ladies Bravo :biggrin:

troung
25 Jul 06,, 18:43
Gun culture may be working fine with american society ,but it back fired especially in Afganistan ...after the common Afghan people with american assiatance drived out USSR,the presence of weapons in the society further eroded their society ....
My only fears are how to pull back the common Kasmiri people out of Gun culture once the terroism ends ...

The large amount of guns might have helped keep the conflict running but other issues really pushed that war along.


bringing weapons into society is the first step for anarchy ...may be till the terroisrm ends it can be useful,but retriving back the weapons from the people is almost impossibe task ....

Not anarchy... autonomy...


# increasingly the terroists will now target women and many innocent women will be caught in this process

Without guns they were mere victims. This at least gives them the option of fighting back.

Tronic
25 Jul 06,, 19:27
Without guns they were mere victims. This at least gives them the option of fighting back.

exactly... and now we are hearing the TRUE Kashmiri voice... and that voice is clearly craving peace, not terrorism... and I hope the "other side" realizes that... because now they have drove the Kashmiris themselves to show how much they support these monkey terrorists... :biggrin: