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platinum786
30 Jun 06,, 00:08
India might be a country rushing headlong into 21st century but every year thousands of babies are aborted or killed at birth because they are girls.

Our correspondent contemplates this as she prepares to have a baby herself.

The heat is stifling here. Some days it's pushing 45 degrees. My body is overheating and we're only two thirds of the way there!

I'm not alone - 25 million other women are expected to give birth in India this year. With the very best medical care, our bundle of joy stands a good chance, but one out of 22 Indian babies will not survive beyond its first month.

According to UNICEF, poor nutrition and hygiene, and a high number of young mothers contribute to low birth weights and slim chances of survival.

Killed at birth

If our baby is a girl - her arrival is likely to be greeted, by some, with condolences. A friend - delighted with his new daughter soon became infuriated at comments that his home had been cursed with a girl.

"Relatives arrived laden with gifts of sweet meats," he said. "They cuddled her and shook their heads at our misfortune."

My mother told me how guilty and how much of a failure she was made to feel when I arrived a year after my older sister.


These are attitudes engrained in many sections of Indian society. More than 10 million female fetuses have been aborted in India in the last two decades.

The prospect of paying a dowry and knowing a daughter could never generate the income of a son is enough for some families to commit murder.

In my parents' native Punjab, girls are often killed at birth. It has skewed the ratio of girls to boys so much that some villages have not seen the birth of a female in years. Thousands of men in rural areas now have trouble finding a wife.

I remember the stories my mother told me - of the neighbour who would take baby girls in the middle of the night and drown them in the village well. My mother also told me how guilty and how much of a failure she was made to feel when I arrived a year after my older sister.

It is not only in the countryside that daughters are unwanted. Middle class, educated women are often at the front of the queue to terminate.

Blessings and curses

What a contrast to the welcome a boy receives. Then the gates of the baby's home will be crowded with screeching Hijaras.

They are eunuchs - castrated men, long haired and unshaven, dressed in bright Salwaar Kameezes or saris. Fierce, aggressive and unrelenting, they wander from home to home searching out new born sons and demanding cash.

"Your good fortune must be shared," they say, "otherwise we will shower you with curses or steal your baby".

Did the doctor really think that I would terminate the pregnancy if I was told a girl was on the way?


Theirs is a flourishing trade, profiting from deep rooted superstitions. The eunuchs' blessings and curses can be equally potent, so neighbours advise you to pay them off handsomely.

But we will not know the sex of our child until it is born. It is illegal for doctors to divulge the information because of the widespread termination of female fetuses.

We suggested to the charming middle-aged doctor that as foreigners surely that rule need not apply to us - he had already told other friends who are both white, the sex of their baby.

But the doctor smiled and shook his head. "Bad timing," he said, "I couldn't possibly - a colleague of mine has just been locked up and paraded in front of the local press for revealing the sex of a baby".

I am of Indian descent but my husband is a blonde, blue-eyed and fiercely proud Scotsman. He was gob-smacked. I felt deflated - did the doctor really think that I would terminate the pregnancy if I was told a girl was on the way?


Navdip does not know the sex of her unborn baby

We could not know our baby's sex but we reassured each other that at least the scan showed it was healthy.

If all goes well, we will greet our new arrival at the end of August.

When we take him or her home from hospital, the baby will have its first glimpse of Delhi life.

Blaring car horns, loud belching exhaust fumes, the electronic beats of Bollywood tracks - all competing for attention in the kaleidoscope of sound that fills the air.

And the smells too, the foul stench across the highway from the Yamuna river: an exotic blend of poisonous sewage and household waste.

Along these banks sit small children who squat, wash and drink from the river. Their homes are in the filthy shanty towns that line the road the three of us will take home.

Dressed in rags, they will come scrambling towards our car and peer through the windows to stare at the child born into privilege. One grubby hand outstretched, the other motioning to a hungry mouth, they will beg for a share in our good fortune.

This is the world you came into, I will tell our child when he or she is old enough: a country on the cusp of incredible change. Full of contrast, contradiction and sometimes abject horror.

It is the home of your maternal ancestors, I will say, and just as my mother raised me with stories of a past that helped shape and direct me - I plan to do the same with you.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/5125810.stm

Tronic
30 Jun 06,, 01:37
hmm... nice bold capitol letters... that is the story of poor backwards people... and the story is the same in Pakistan, Bangladesh and even China... don't get me started on women in India and the freedoms, the oppurtunities they have here... This is a country where the women can walk shoulder to shoulder with men and where women have equal rights and are not oppressed in society... the society that you boldedly highlighted in that article is not the whole Indian society, it is the backwards poor society in India... this is the society living under poverty... the progressive Indian society has successful women in all parts of society ranging from the showbiz to athletics to politics... so, Plat my friend, you should try to change the mindset of the progressive Pakistani society and I will do my best here to change the mindset of the backward poor society in India... ;)

percentage_plyr
30 Jun 06,, 01:48
(sarcasm on) women in pakistan have it so much batter man!they run around in bikinis fearless in the pakistan"s open society.....they run businesses & enterprises...while the men folk go to madrassas to study,the women r sent to cambridge & oxford for higher studies......the female models & lollywood actresses of pakistan r making WAVES around the world with their talent & looks....wat else.....

enough for today.

(sarcasm off)

ever heard of glass houses platinum795434567.....watever.

Jana
01 Jul 06,, 16:34
No need to stir up on the issue

Dear indian members its a social problem so why not to discuss ways and means to redress it instead of getting boiled.

Jana
01 Jul 06,, 16:39
See wht the stupid notion of having a wish only for the boy baby at the cost of girl has led to following practice



http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...epath=News/News



India's female shortage leads to wife-renting
Jun. 19, 2006. 05:50 AMASSOCIATED PRESS

NEW DELHI Some husbands in western India are renting out their wives to other men, cashing in on a shortage of single women available for marriage, according to a news report Monday.

Atta Prajapati, a farm worker who lives in Gujarat state, leases out his wife Laxmi to a wealthy landowner for $175 US a month, the Times of India reported, citing unidentified police officials. A farm worker earns a monthly minimum wage of around $22.

Laxmi is expected to live with the man, look after him and his house, and have sex with him, the report said.

The Times said this was not an isolated incident in the western state, and that several men rent their wives to other men on a month-by-month basis.
Gujarat officials were unwilling to comment on the report when contacted Monday by The Associated Press.

The male-female ratio is becoming increasing skewed across India because many parents abort female fetuses, preferring sons to daughters.

Female children must be married off, and to achieve that a daughter's parents usually have to pay the groom's family a dowry of cash and gifts often a massive burden on the parents' resources.

Dowries were outlawed in 1961, but the practice is still common and the law ill-enforced.

The nationwide number of girls per 1,000 boys declined from 945 in 1991 to 927 in 2001, according to the 2001 national census. But in wealthy Gujarat state, the census showed 828 females for every 1,000 males, although officials say the number could be as low as 700 girls per 1,000 boys in parts of the state.

It is not unusual for wealthy families to hire housekeeping staff in India, but prostitution is illegal.

The lack of marriageable girls in Gujurat has also led to booming business for bride brokers, who are paid to find a woman for a man to marry.Brokers charge a groom's family up to $1,520, and the girl's family will receive around $435, the newspaper said.

gilgamesh
01 Jul 06,, 16:57
(sarcasm on) women in pakistan have it so much batter man!they run around in bikinis fearless in the pakistan"s open society.....they run businesses & enterprises...while the men folk go to madrassas to study,the women r sent to cambridge & oxford for higher studies......the female models & lollywood actresses of pakistan r making WAVES around the world with their talent & looks....wat else.....

enough for today.

(sarcasm off)

ever heard of glass houses platinum795434567.....watever.


Besides Pakistani women,lets not leave out Pakistani Boys and homos They are discriminated as well.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/07/11/open_secrets/

LAHORE -- The first time Aziz, a lean, dark-haired 20-year-old in this bustling cultural capital, had sex with a man, he was a pretty, illiterate boy of 16. A family friend took him to his house, put on a Pakistani-made soft-porn video, and raped him . Now, says Aziz (who gives only his first name), he is "addicted" to sex with men, so he hangs around Lahore's red-light districts, getting paid a few rupees for sex. At night, he goes home to his parents and prays to Allah to forgive him.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, homosexuality is not only illegal, it is a crime punishable by whipping, imprisonment, or even death. But across all classes and social groups, men have sex with men. In villages throughout the country, young boys are often forcibly "taken" by older men, starting a cycle of abuse and revenge that social activists and observers say is the common pattern of homosexual sex in Pakistan. Often these boys move to the cities and become prostitutes. Most people know it happens -- from the police to the wives of the men involved.

In some areas, homosexual sex is even tacitly accepted -- though still officially illegal -- as long as it doesn't threaten traditional marriage. In the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which shares many tribal and cultural links with neighboring Afghanistan, the ethnic Pashtun men who dominate the region are renowned for taking young boys as lovers. No one has been executed for sodomy in Pakistan's recent history, but across the border in Afghanistan, the Taliban (who are also overwhelmingly Pashtun) executed three men for sodomy in 1998 by bulldozing a brick wall over them, burying two of them alive. (The third survived, which meant, according to Taliban law, that he was innocent, so he was taken to a hospital for treatment.)

Among Pakistan's urban elite, there is a growing community of men who identify as gay, some of whom even come out to their friends. Men meet on Internet bulletin boards, or at private pool parties with lots of rented boys and heavy security. But they are a tiny, terrified minority, living in cities such as Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad, where the cultural elite has carved out a niche for itself. In a country where alcohol is forbidden except to Christians, dancing is banned, and the Koran guides many aspects of criminal law, such men rarely step outside of their protected world. (Because women in Pakistan inhabit, for the most part, a strictly private realm, it is difficult to say with any certainty how common lesbian relationships may be.)

Homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and some form of unspoken social acceptance. "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex, and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," the San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen O. Murray writes in "Sociolegal Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison," a collection of scholarly essays published in 1997. Further complicating matters, the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan, according to Murray, is pederasty, where an older man entices or coerces (sometimes forcibly) a younger boy into sex.

Among the many obstacles facing men who have sex with men in Pakistan is this close association, in the eyes of many Pakistanis, between homosexuality and exploitation. But they face their own psychological barriers as well. Of the dozens of men interviewed for this article, almost none who admitted to having homosexual sex identified themselves as "gay." (All would give only their first names, which could not be verified, or would speak only anonymously.) Most do not even believe that homosexuality should be legal.

Aziz says he now enjoys sex with other men, but he believes that's only because he isn't able to have sex with women, who are largely inaccessible -- even in red-light districts, where there are many more men than women for rent. And like most Pakistani men who have homosexual sex, Aziz believes it is wrong. "The Verses of the Koran do not allow it," he says. "That's the only thing that matters."

. . .

According to the Koran, when the prophet Lot saw that his people had been engaged in sodomy and debauchery, he said, "Come ye to men, instead of women, lustfully? Ye are indeed a people given to excess." When they refused to repent their sins, Allah destroyed them: "And we rained a rain upon them: and see what was the end of the wicked!"

The lines don't seem to leave much room for interpretation. But Faisal Alam, founder of the Al-Fatiha Foundation, a Washington-based organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, argues that Lot's people were killed not because they had homosexual sex, but because they were forcing sex on each other. That interpretation is unlikely to hold much weight with Pakistan's religious leaders. The matter is not open for debate here -- not among mullahs, academics, or even activists.

Like many Pakistani men who have sex with men, Aziz believes he is plagued by a "satan," or demon, that makes him desire men. Veteran human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, who lives in Lahore and specializes in women's rights cases, says the inconsistent application of Sharia (Islamic law) and Pakistani criminal law has blurred the line between abuse and gay sex, and the emphasis on Islamic values has imbued the very word "homosexuality" with a moral color.

"Here we have two totally different issues: exploited boys and sex workers versus consensual sex," Jilani says. "But the majority of people will think of them as the same. Even people like myself who do understand this issue haven't been able to take it up, except in the context of violence against people on basis of sex orientation."Jilani says there are innumerable cases of young boys -- some sex workers, some not -- charged under Pakistan's sodomy law, even if they have been enticed into sex.


Page 3 of 5 -- Jilani, who has defended dozens of children accused under the law, says they spend long years in jail awaiting trial; their families are stigmatized and often forced to disown them. In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.
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A 16-year-old who identifies himself only as Khurram knows all about that. Born in Dina, a small city in central Pakistan, his father died when he was young, and by the time he was 8 he was sent out to support his family. He says his employer sexually assaulted him, and he eventually realized that if he let it happen, he would make more money than he would serving chai. So he moved to the big city. Now he lives beside the bus stand in Rawalpindi, sleeping during the day and emerging at dusk to wait for work. For less than a dollar, he'll let a man have sex with him on a string bed behind a tobacco shop. "I don't like what I do," he says sorrowfully. "I am doing it so my sister can go to school."
. . .

There are no discernible red-light districts in the Northwest Frontier Province. In Peshawar, the provincial capital, women billow through the dusty streets in white "shuttlecock" burkas, named for the netted veil over the face. Many of the city's movie theaters have been shut down, and playing music in local buses is banned.

Ruled by an alliance of six Islamic parties who recently declared Sharia to be supreme over Pakistani national law, the NWFP is one of the most religiously conservative regions of Pakistan. This is the province that helped give rise to the Taliban, and where Al Qaeda leaders -- including Osama bin Laden -- continue to seek refuge, according to the Pakistani government.

Yet this is also the region of Pakistan where homosexuality is most tolerated -- however quietly. Among the Pashtun majority, having a young, attractive boyfriend is a symbol of prestige and wealth for affluent middle-aged men. Indeed, Pashtun men often keep a young boy in their hujra, the male room of the house that the wife rarely enters. The practice is so common that there are various slang terms for the boyfriends in different regional languages: larke (boy), warkai, alec.

According to many people interviewed in Peshawar, there's a strict code of behavior in these relationships. The boy is always the passive partner in sex and has often been coerced into the relationship; he is given food and clothes by his partner, and is in may cases forbidden to leave the relationship or marry. (In theory, the boys could marry when they're grown, but they are generally considered damaged, and end up wandering the streets as outcasts.)

Sayed Mudassir Shah, a human rights activist based in Peshawar, believes this goes on in part because of the extreme austerity of the traditional culture. Even after marriage, women are kept separate from men (except at night), and a strict interpretation of Islam discourages sports, music, and TV. Indeed, says Sayed, the practice is deeply embedded in the local culture. "It is so common to take boy lovers, that it is part of our Pashtun folklore," Sayed says. "One story tells of a wife crying to her husband that he has made her jealous, because he is spending so much time in the hujra with his boyfriend. This is folklore, but it is similar in life."

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Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."

. . .

A spirited, self-confident young man of 25 who lives in Islamabad, the nation's capital, and identifies himself only as Sajat, tells me that he first had sex with a man at a religious school in a central Pakistani village. But unlike most madrassa students and the boys in the red-light districts, Sajat's first sexual encounter with a man was by choice. Now a well-paid government servant in Islamabad, he hoots with laughter when he describes his preference for young, "hot-blooded, fighting soldier men," and happily recounts his regular trawls for boys through Islamabad's parks.

But Sajat's irreverent, openly gay self abruptly disappears when marriage comes up. He admits that he is engaged to a match of his parents' choosing, and will marry in the next two years. "Nature has made females for males, so after I get married, I will stop having sex with men," he intones, as though dutifully.

Indeed, gay men in Pakistan usually succumb to family pressure to marry, and those who are brave or rich enough to refuse to marry live under constant threat. Human rights workers say that the dearth of Pakistani gay-rights or community groups heightens the isolation and fear of those who identify -- and live -- as homosexuals. There are groups working against the spread of AIDS in Pakistan, but their work is often impeded by the cultural disapproval of homosexual sex. Continued...


Haji Muhammad Hanif, the general secretary of the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan, says that when he talks to male sex workers in the red-light districts of Lahore, he first asks them, "Do you know that gay sex is a heinous crime?" According to Pakistan's official figures, there were only some 2,000 cases of AIDS in Pakistan as of June 2003, but data collection is limited by social taboos. Estimates by the World Health Organization and UNAIDS put the 2002 figure at 78,000.

santosh tiwari
02 Jul 06,, 07:23
Besides Pakistani women,lets not leave out Pakistani Boys and homos They are discriminated as well.

In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.

Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. .

if this is true then people like Imran Khan are mainly responsible for this who himself has taken international experience and want new generation of pakistan to study in madrassas.

Asim Aquil
02 Jul 06,, 08:40
Very impressively written.

It's a good thing Islam fought female infanticide 1400 years ago!

Tronic:

It is not only in the countryside that daughters are unwanted. Middle class, educated women are often at the front of the queue to terminate.
The writer was brutally honest. She didn't even spare the details of the treatment her own mother got from friends and family on her birth.

Bluesman
02 Jul 06,, 08:51
Most of the world is a benighted place. Religion and its effects are a large part of WHY the ignorance is so deep and so debilitating.

percentage_plyr
02 Jul 06,, 09:59
lol....asim aquil....is sodomy a punishable crime in pak.??

i know it is in india.....under "unnatural sexual practices" rt there alongwith pedophilia.dunno the IPC section.

constructive criticism is welcome.....but didnt u read that thing bout glass houses.

comeon,u guys r pakistanis.....not from luxembourgh......i thought getting your own house in order wld be the no.1 priority......considering the state of ur nation.

but,yes......for india.......female foetecide is a shame,it really is a national disgrace alongwith other issues like basic health,primary education,malnutrition,poverty.

if it makes u forget the far worse state of ur own nation for a little while......be my guest,have a good laugh.

Asim Aquil
02 Jul 06,, 12:01
lol....asim aquil....is sodomy a punishable crime in pak.??
Yes, what's that got to do with female infanticide?


constructive criticism is welcome.....but didnt u read that thing bout glass houses.
Dude, stop taking offence so easily. Its just a wrong like a million other wrongs that go around in India. It's a got big problems, Pakistan's got big problems.

Being sentimental with the discussions won't help India or Pakistan.


if it makes u forget the far worse state of ur own nation for a little while......be my guest,have a good laugh.
Seems like Pakistani woes makes YOU forget the far worse state of your nation. I accept the problems of homosexual cases of sodomy in Madrassas and the unpunished rape crimes due to Hadood Ordinance, in fact I go forum to forum pointing them out.

For starters the entire Pakistani nation is fighting a strong battle against the Hadood ordinance these days for details on the Hadood ordinance and the struggle goto http://www.geo.tv/zs

Our glass house is made up strong bullet-proof double paned glass. We can take it, apparently you can't.

Jana
02 Jul 06,, 12:28
The thread is not about the SEX so please dont try to overshadow it by psoting irrelevent stuff.

The main theme was about the follwoing issue

[quote] every year thousands of babies are aborted or killed at birth because they are girls.


25 million other women are expected to give birth in India this year. With the very best medical care, our bundle of joy stands a good chance, but one out of 22 Indian babies will not survive beyond its first month. [quote]

My only point is to discuss it to find ways and means to redress the problem why you u guys are so dump :frown:

wht if boys were being killed like this becase someone wants only daughters.

Cant u guys have constructive suggestions regardless of who's country facing the problem.

Bluesman
02 Jul 06,, 12:31
No. For a lot of these guys, they can't.

Jana
02 Jul 06,, 12:37
No. For a lot of these guys, they can't.

:tongue: agreed

im thinking what the hell these guys doin all their lives :rolleyes:


BTW blue like ur sig lets see if your sig can work on them :biggrin:

percentage_plyr
02 Jul 06,, 13:29
for once...i"d like to read opinions of the pakistanis actually LIVING IN PAK. & seeing it all first hand.

anybody????

asim?? no he lives in "havelis" in dubai.

jana?? no isnt she from holland.

neo?? dutch too.

dizasta??? he claims to be a rocket scientist or something in US.

platinum7985344?? another dude in america....or was it UK?

are there no pakistani members actually in pakistan to give us the true picture of different issues that we come across in discussion now & then.

thts just a thought.....of course dont intend to evade the evil of female infanticide.in my own state the sex ratio is somethi like 827 females for 1000 males...which is really bad.

wats the sex ratio for pakistan???anybody??(with links of course)

percentage_plyr
02 Jul 06,, 13:41
after all this being said bout female infanticide occuring ONLY in INDIA.

have a look at this.........

in 2000,sex ratio in india=927

in 1998,sex ratio in pakistan=926 (from ur official census site....http://www.statpak.gov.pk/depts/pco/statistics/pop_sex_ratio_growth_rate/pop_sex_ratio_growth_rate.html)

in 2000 i think it became 927 or 928.

of course,ur houses r made up of "bullet proof glass".

kindly do ur homework before posting something & thumping ur chest bout it.

http://www.censusindia.net/charts/fig11.html

http://www.censusindia.net/fsex.html
(official sites of india"s census).

Jana
02 Jul 06,, 13:42
for once...i"d like to read opinions of the pakistanis actually LIVING IN PAK. & seeing it all first hand.



Wht do u mean by that ?

u mean if someone is not living in his country he or she cant discuss or give any sugesstion to improve the conditions.

Secondly OK if u think Pakistanis have no right to discuss these issues of India thn why dont u ask the Indian members to give some constructive suggestions after all by closing eyes the problems can not be solved.
Same advice for my own countrymen.


jana?? no isnt she from holland.

:eek: who said that for haven sack do ur home work sir.





are there no pakistani members actually in pakistan to give us the true picture of different issues that we come across in discussion now & then.

i dont know about others but i have come across only BSs posts and irrelevent comments and if u r honest just go back to every thread and see for urself who is obsessed more with whom?

OrdinaryGuy
02 Jul 06,, 13:48
India has come a long way since independence in bringing people out of poverty and trying to remove evil social practises.

But in countries like Pakistan its the opposite. Women are not allowed to show their faces/bodies and hence men have to satisfy their sexual desires by raping other men. Women are beaten up openly on the street.. Only last year Pakistan's Human right's commissioner for Women was beaten and almost stripped by Pakistani police in Pakistan for protesting.

in Pakistan, gang rape and other crimes against women are justified by religion... In India.. its a social practise dating back to ancient times which the indian government continues to fight.

At least we live in a democracy, and our men and women can freely intermingle.. and Indian women have reached new heights in both the corporate and the political world

Jana
02 Jul 06,, 13:48
after all this being said bout female infanticide occuring ONLY in INDIA.

have a look at this.........

in 2000,sex ratio in india=927

in 1998,sex ratio in pakistan=926


its not about the sex ratio :)

its all about the social problem of killing the unborn girls just because someone wants a boy and thats wht it was posted.

the other post wherein the selling of wives by Indians due to shortage of females was i think direct result of the first parctice.

Now sir all i wanted u guys to plzzzzzzz come up with suggestions to stop such paractices be these in Pakistan or India.

So plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz instead of blaming each others for this and that probelm lets discuss the solutions to these.

OrdinaryGuy
02 Jul 06,, 13:53
The preference for a male child exists in China too.. and the problem is still rampant.
Its a problem that exists throughout developing countries that is an issue of social stigma that can only be combatted with education. And India has a very aggressive print and television media campaign currently that tells people female infantacide is wrong. Indian text books have entire chapters on India's social problems and steps to correct them.

But India has a large population and this is going to take at least another decade before most social stigmas can be erradicated.

A more serious concern to me is the plight of women in Pakistan. How many of them are raped.. without getting any justice. At least are judicial system and are parliament are concerned about rape, and infact a new bill is going to become law soon. In pakistan.. if a woman is raped she becomes a social outcaste courtesy Islam.

Pakistan has one of the lowest rates of women education in the world. Now that's a shame

percentage_plyr
02 Jul 06,, 14:23
its not about the sex ratio :)

its all about the social problem of killing the unborn girls just because someone wants a boy and thats wht it was posted.

the other post wherein the selling of wives by Indians due to shortage of females was i think direct result of the first parctice.

Now sir all i wanted u guys to plzzzzzzz come up with suggestions to stop such paractices be these in Pakistan or India.

So plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz instead of blaming each others for this and that probelm lets discuss the solutions to these.

jana...actually sex ratio is the direct parameter of female infanticide/fetecide.

its how u measure the impact of this social ill,ok?

the two are directly related.

sorry i somehow guessed u were dutch.

Asim Aquil
02 Jul 06,, 17:38
for once...i"d like to read opinions of the pakistanis actually LIVING IN PAK. & seeing it all first hand.

anybody????

asim?? no he lives in "havelis" in dubai.

jana?? no isnt she from holland.

neo?? dutch too.

dizasta??? he claims to be a rocket scientist or something in US.

platinum7985344?? another dude in america....or was it UK?

are there no pakistani members actually in pakistan to give us the true picture of different issues that we come across in discussion now & then.

thts just a thought.....of course dont intend to evade the evil of female infanticide.in my own state the sex ratio is somethi like 827 females for 1000 males...which is really bad.

wats the sex ratio for pakistan???anybody??(with links of course)
Havelis? Well maybe my parent's house in Lahore can be mini Haveli of sorts, but I myself just afford a 2 bedroom flat.

What's my house got to do with the kind of thinking I've got? I do travel to Lahore a whole lot (its like 400 bucks for us in Dubai). Hmmm perhaps you'd argue that my foreign education changes my opinions, but I differ on that (I did get some of my early schooling in Lahore), it's mostly due to my modern thinking, Pakistani parents.

Btw, I believe Indians and Pakistanis from the Middle East are the answer to the Indo-Pak feud. We haven't coexisted for so long without an incident here for nothing.

bull
03 Jul 06,, 08:02
infact im proud in this matter,my state is the only state in India which has more females than males.

See we are a educated lot..sthree thanne dhanam ( meaning women itself is wealth )

Tronic
03 Jul 06,, 08:22
which state bull???

667medic
03 Jul 06,, 12:38
which state bull???

Kerala...
I have always been turned on when I see Mallu Kuttys. Man what big booobs emmmm :cool: , hey no offence Bull :biggrin:

Jana
03 Jul 06,, 13:40
:mad: im still waiting for some vital suggestions for eleminating the stupid insane practice of killing daughters for having a son :mad:

So anybody there come on with some solution instead of commenting on big booooobs :frown:


Come on one suggestion and i follow u to post some stuff how to help change minds of such parents .

bull, Ray atleast u people can come up with instead of wasting time on useless battle out here.

Or Officer u can suggest something if we South Asians are stupid and empty minded.
:confused:

Asim Aquil
03 Jul 06,, 15:12
Kerala...
I have always been turned on when I see Mallu Kuttys. Man what big booobs emmmm :cool: , hey no offence Bull :biggrin:
You're quite the charmer today, aren't ya?

Asim Aquil
03 Jul 06,, 15:14
:mad: im still waiting for some vital suggestions for eleminating the stupid insane practice of killing daughters for having a son :mad:

So anybody there come on with some solution instead of commenting on big booooobs :frown:


Come on one suggestion and i follow u to post some stuff how to help change minds of such parents .

bull, Ray atleast u people can come up with instead of wasting time on useless battle out here.

Or Officer u can suggest something if we South Asians are stupid and empty minded.
:confused:
You have to correct a whole bunch of social vices faced by women.

Dowry and lack of women employment being the #1 factor.

Guy's demanding dowry are pathetic IMO. You're already getting the girl, dammit!

Samudra
03 Jul 06,, 17:28
Medic,

There are two types of Keralite girls.
Asin belongs to group one, Shakila belongs to group two.

So Whom do you like bro? :biggrin:

percentage_plyr
03 Jul 06,, 17:39
lol.......wats gotten into medic today!!!

Vaman
03 Jul 06,, 18:42
Kerala...
I have always been turned on when I see Mallu Kuttys. Man what big booobs emmmm :cool: , hey no offence Bull :biggrin:

What ?? You mean you like Bull's b00bies??
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/9780/whistling.gif

Tronic
03 Jul 06,, 18:45
Kerala...
I have always been turned on when I see Mallu Kuttys. Man what big booobs emmmm :cool: , hey no offence Bull :biggrin:
:biggrin:

Asim Aquil
03 Jul 06,, 20:34
I know a malbari security guy called Kutty. I'm so confused now. I think he probably meant to say bit.ches, right?

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 05:41
Some economists claim that it would take around 200 years to wipe out poverty in India, so yeah it might take 200 years to eradicate this menace...
Still there are no guarantees as Asian society as a whole prefers Males over Females even in relatively affluent countries like South Korea and Japan. Some thing to do with Culture/Confusianism etc.
The only thing which would shock the people into waking up is when they have trouble finding brides for all their sons. But then there have been a few instances where people even share brides in Punjab and Rajasthan....

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 05:42
Medic,

There are two types of Keralite girls.
Asin belongs to group one, Shakila belongs to group two.

So Whom do you like bro? :biggrin:
I want both :mad: :mad:

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 08:11
What's my house got to do with the kind of thinking I've got? I do travel to Lahore a whole lot (its like 400 bucks for us in Dubai). Hmmm perhaps you'd argue that my foreign education changes my opinions, but I differ on that (I did get some of my early schooling in Lahore), it's mostly due to my modern thinking, Pakistani parents.

There are definitely no excuses for the kind of thinking you have got. Its rather interesting to observe. In a watch a weed in the glasshouse kind of way.


Btw, I believe Indians and Pakistanis from the Middle East are the answer to the Indo-Pak feud. We haven't coexisted for so long without an incident here for nothing.

Your actions are contrary to your own statements.

stone_cold
04 Jul 06,, 09:25
Posted 6/20/2006 10:53 AM ET

LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) A Pakistan man killed his three young daughters Tuesday before confessing to police, prompting one officer to shoot him dead, an investigator said. Mohammed Ashraf, 38, used a knife to cut the throats of his daughters aged 3, 5 and 9 before dawn in the eastern city of Lahore, said senior police investigator Amir Zulifquar.
Ashraf then went to a police station to report his crime, and was charged with murdering his daughters and placed in a cell.

"As I left the police station after questioning Mohammed Ashraf, one of my guards opened fire and killed him," Zulifquar said.

The policeman who shot Ashraf was identified as Mohammed Nadeem and was taken into custody, Zulifquar said.

Nadeem told investigators that he killed Ashraf to "eliminate an animal from society," according to Zulifquar.

"A person who kills innocent children deserves no mercy," Zulifquar quoted Nadeem as saying.

Before his killing, Ashraf told police that he was jobless and had killed his daughters because of poverty, Zulifquar said.

Ashraf's wife Sughran Bibi told reporters that she didn't hear her daughters' cries and that her husband had woken her up after "committing the heinous crime for which I will never forgive him."

Nadeem, the policeman, will face court for a ruling on whether he should be charged with murder or not, Zulifquar said. No date has been set for when he will appear in court. If convicted, he faces the death penalty.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-20-pakistan-shooting_x.htm?csp=34


Disgusting!!

bull
04 Jul 06,, 10:37
There are definitely no excuses for the kind of thinking you have got. Its rather interesting to observe. In a watch a weed in the glasshouse kind of way.



Your actions are contrary to your own statements.

Very well pointed out

Parihaka
04 Jul 06,, 11:10
Most of the world is a benighted place. Religion and its effects are a large part of WHY the ignorance is so deep and so debilitating.
yep.

Parihaka
04 Jul 06,, 11:12
Cant u guys have constructive suggestions regardless of who's country facing the problem.
get rid of dowrys

Parihaka
04 Jul 06,, 11:14
You have to correct a whole bunch of social vices faced by women.

Dowry and lack of women employment being the #1 factor.

Guy's demanding dowry are pathetic IMO. You're already getting the girl, dammit!
Agreed

Jana
04 Jul 06,, 12:04
get rid of dowrys

Yes

Dowry thts might be one of the reasons coupls want a boy instead of a girl.

Parihaka i was just asking a simple question how to eleminate the thinking of having a boy at the cots of a girl?

Now i think the pld guys out here all of them :frown: might have some suggestion but they all r like maroons jumping on each other's head :frown:


I had read somewhere that now in the West coupls also read alot of stuff and alot is avaible to determin the sex of a child.


So dear pari i was thinking if there comes a suggestion from thes babaaz :biggrin:
i would search and post names of some books which could help.

bull
04 Jul 06,, 12:37
The biggest evil is poverty..

The poor always look at the financial feasibilty of the minutest i=thing.
When they look at the female child,it comes with a lot of economic disadvantages say like,earning capacity is poor as poor normally indulges in physical labour and owmen are paid lesser than the male counterparts,and hence spending on them is considered as a economic waste.

Dowry comes at a much later stage.

Eradicate poverty and a lot of evil things would be gone with that

Jana
04 Jul 06,, 12:49
The biggest evil is poverty..

The poor always look at the financial feasibilty of the minutest i=thing.
When they look at the female child,it comes with a lot of economic disadvantages say like,earning capacity is poor as poor normally indulges in physical labour and owmen are paid lesser than the male counterparts,and hence spending on them is considered as a economic waste.

Dowry comes at a much later stage.

Eradicate poverty and a lot of evil things would be gone with that

Agreed bull but u see poverty is also a big issue which can not be addressed in a day or too it will take decades or may be it wont be solved in the presence of WB and its policies which had added to it.

So we can not wait for eradication of poverty and we cant let the gilrs killed like that.

Like India We also have the same problem of wishing for the male child in some areas and i tell u bull me and my mother had talked to many famlies about this curse and will u believe we had succeeded to convince them that
girls no less thn a male child and bull believe u me now the same people when to visit us they talk about taking care of thier gals and no more wish for the male child.

So if we can do it at individual level so can u guys do it.

Anyone intrested to know about the books which help in choosing the sex of a child so that they dont indulge in killing the unoborn gals?

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 12:55
The biggest evil is poverty..
People in Japan and S.Korea also prefer Males.....

bull
04 Jul 06,, 13:06
People in Japan and S.Korea also prefer Males.....

Are they GAY???? :eek:

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 13:12
Are they GAY???? :eek:
Something to do with Confusian thought :confused:

bull
04 Jul 06,, 14:02
Something to do with Confusian thought :confused:

Im at work,so it does happen

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 14:12
Im at work,so it does happen
Machi, I think you misunderstood me. :)
What I actually meant was that Japan and S.Korea are societies based on the Philosophy of Confusius, who was a Chinese scholar.
Confusian philosophy is very similar to Indian philosophy like respect for elders, dominance of males etc...Therefore countries like Japan and S.Korea have preserved their traditions inspite of being welloff, consequently the preference for males....

bull
04 Jul 06,, 14:18
Machi, I think you misunderstood me. :)
What I actually meant was that Japan and S.Korea are societies based on the Philosophy of Confusius, who was a Chinese scholar.
Confusian philosophy is very similar to Indian philosophy like respect for elders, dominance of males etc...Therefore countries like Japan and S.Korea have preserved their traditions inspite of being welloff, consequently the preference for males....


uff what a blunder. i read confusius as confusion!!!

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 17:34
Agreed

In North east India, it being matriarchal, the boy has to give a dowry to the brides family. Usual issues in many cases, but the reverse. :rolleyes: :biggrin:

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 17:36
lol.......wats gotten into medic today!!!

I swear. In thread after thread. :eek:

Get him married, set him right. He will stop thinking of all this altogether. :biggrin:

Or its entirely possible it will make him more despo than he already is. :rolleyes: :biggrin:

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 17:39
get rid of dowrys

Easier said than done Parihaka :(. The Government of India has banned it long back. But it continues- partly even driven as a status symbol. It began as a practise to "help" a daughter whilst she sets up her household and transmutated into outright extortion.

There are a lot of NGOs working to enforce it, cops who file cases, yada yada ..but ultimately what will kill the practise is when educated women refuse to succumb to such pressure tactics.

667medic
04 Jul 06,, 17:52
Easier said than done Parihaka :(. The Government of India has banned it long back. But it continues- partly even driven as a status symbol. It began as a practise to "help" a daughter whilst she sets up her household and transmutated into outright extortion.

There are a lot of NGOs working to enforce it, cops who file cases, yada yada ..but ultimately what will kill the practise is when educated women refuse to succumb to such pressure tactics.
Dude, in China there is reverse dowry, male pay dowry to the females. That didn't stop female infanticide during the height of the Once Child Policy.....

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 22:09
Yup female infanticide is a huge challenge for China as well. Their female-male sex ratio is also bad iirc.

Asim Aquil
04 Jul 06,, 22:48
Either CIA's website's screwed up or Pakistan, India, US, England, UAE, Bangladesh have pretty much the same Male to female ratios... I just googled it up!

China has a .1 more than us. Otherwise between us the difference are not there or are like .01 up n down.

All in favor of males! Weird...

Archer
04 Jul 06,, 23:42
Either CIA's website's screwed up or Pakistan, India, US, England, UAE, Bangladesh have pretty much the same Male to female ratios... I just googled it up!

China has a .1 more than us. Otherwise between us the difference are not there or are like .01 up n down.

All in favor of males! Weird...

If its an averaged countrywide stat, it conceals what happens in particular regions (problem areas) of a country.

Parihaka
05 Jul 06,, 00:21
In North east India, it being matriarchal, the boy has to give a dowry to the brides family. Usual issues in many cases, but the reverse. :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Ah, I didn't know that, thanks for the info :)

santosh tiwari
05 Jul 06,, 03:26
Easier said than done Parihaka :(. The Government of India has banned it long back. But it continues- partly even driven as a status symbol. It began as a practise to "help" a daughter whilst she sets up her household and transmutated into outright extortion.

There are a lot of NGOs working to enforce it, cops who file cases, yada yada ..but ultimately what will kill the practise is when educated women refuse to succumb to such pressure tactics.
the problem of dovery is not becoz of those who ask. this is mainly because of those who give. my one friend here, he want to marry with a girl who is equally qualified and he find interest in her. and at the same time he is saving money and say atleast 20-25lacs rupees will be required for marriage of his sister. i told him one day why not you would also try for a guy who is equally qualified like your sister and will suit her, he said he is earning not because he will marry his sister with someone who is not of his level. and for that he and his parents are saving money.

not only this, his parents are also having eyes on all those people of his area who are doing good somewhere and also trying to impress them by all means. they dont say they want to give them dovery, they say something like they want to give all car, jewelry and drafts to their daughter. Also when they find someone is looking for a higher qualified girl, they say they are ready to pay donation for any medical or management college also. his sister is just B.Sc. graduate and about 22-23 so they may fit her in any profession what other party want. and this is the main reason of dovery. until we want to marry, we just go for a girl we like. but when the same thing happens with our sisters or daughters, things get changed and we start running here and there for the best deal.