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Ironduke
23 Dec 03,, 07:05
http://home.att.net/~s-prasad/lca.gif

Anybody know detailed information about this aircraft? How viable will it be as a fighter jet?

US_NavySeals
27 Dec 03,, 00:00
http://images4.fotki.com/v50/photos/1/14022/24531/1971975-vi.jpg


Engine - US

Avionics - (French/Isreal/Indian)

Weapons - Israel


The LCA integrates modern design concepts like static instability, digital fly-by-wire flight control system, integrated avionics, glass cockpit, primary composite structure, multi-mode radar, microprocessor based utility and brake management systems.






Wing Span 8.20 m
Length 13.20 m
Empty Weight 5500 kg
Engine - GE F404-F2J3 turbofan r
Fuel Capacity Internal fuel capacity - 3000 liters
Centerline and the two-inner hardpoints under each wing can carry five 800 liters fuel tanks
also has an in-flight refuelling probe
Maximum Range - 850 Kms
Maximum Speed Mach 1.7
Service Ceiling 50,000 feet.
G Limits +9/-3.5
Armament internally mounted GSh-23mm twin barrel gun with 220 rounds of ammunition
Seven external hardpoints, can carry air-to-air missiles, air-to-surface missiles, anti-ship missiles, rocket launchers and ECM pods

Maximum External Stores Load 4000kg (8818 lbs.)
Self Defence RWR system, jammer and chaff & flare dispensers

Oqaab
31 Dec 03,, 05:59
Maximum Range - 850 Kms

850 km only ??? Is it ferry range or combat radius ?

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 02:39
Its a lot more than that. I worked on LCA project...

Look at fas.org

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/lca.htm

Range is not shown. take the drop tanks off and you get fuel to travel 3000 kms...

It also has air to air refueling capability. Moreover 850km is more than enough to strike into pak, isn't it :)

Secondly US_NavySeals, GE404 engine is only for the first few prototypes and may be for the first couple squardrons. The following ones will use Kaveri engine and that will be universal engine for both navy and AF versions.

India has sucessfully finished the first major phase, and that is structural part of the aircraft and maneoverability. Next phase that is going on now, is weaponization. This part of it may involved a lot of classified stuff. Yes, it does use a lot of Israeli avionics, french and US components.

Praxus
04 Jan 04,, 02:52
How does it compare to the F-16 Block 60/62?

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 04:30
Comparison between the F-16 and the LCA

LCA F16C/D block 50+

Length 13.20m 15.03m

Height
4.40m 5.1m

Span 8.20m 10.0m

Max Speed 1700 Km/hr Mach 2.05

Max Weight 8500 kg 17010kg

Ceiling 16400m 16750m

Range 840km 1000km

Armament
1 cannon & 7 hard points, ext load 4000 kg (LCA)
1 cannon, 2 Sidewinders, ext load 4500 kg. (F-16)

Engines
GEF404 F2J3, KAVERI GTX-35VS P&W F100-PW-220

Control Systems
Quadruplex (Digital) FBW based on MIL STD 1553B Bus (LCA)
Triplex DFCS with one Analog Backup on MIL STD 1553B Bus (F-16)


Except for speed and range, from specs it is superior. However like I said range can be extended by removing the drop tank weight. Speed, F-16 still has a slight advantage. That however is more useful in dog fights, but LCA overcomes that by being designed as more manoverable.

Praxus
04 Jan 04,, 04:33
Do you think India will be buying more Military equipment from the US and less from Russia?

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 04:41
Well,,,, I am a technology person, I cant say about India's weapon deals. India surely would like to buy from US, but in India there is a common perception of US not being trustworthy. There is a basic difference between our culture and US. That is, India is a society based on moral values. US is a society based on intrests. We surely share a lot of things in common, but people here perceive that US cannot be trusted especially after applying sanctions for nuclear tests.

Russia is trustworthy and so is Israel, Infact in trouble, when we were fighting pakistan in kargil, Israel suppied us with equipment digging into her reserves. At the moment I think Indfa is careful with any major weapns deals with US, and most of the weapon deals with britian, france and israel India insists that they not use any major US components. However, I think India is more intrested in being self sufficient in defence and technology and partner with people who have same objectives with long term goals, not friendship based on intrests alone.

Praxus
04 Jan 04,, 04:51
Russia is "trustworthy" because their economy has collapsed and they need your money. They aren't doing it for moral reasons.

Israel supported India because they are a surronded by a bunch of neo-fascist dictators that want to destroy them and they need any help and good will they can get.

The US has the same goals as India, end terrorism and deter any Chinese agression.

Oqaab
04 Jan 04,, 12:52
Range 840km 1000km

LCA's combat radius is 840kms. F-16s ferry range is 3900 kms (maybe more then 4000).

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 19:13
Praxus
You are right in your comment. I agree countries work based on intrest. I was talking about the general public sentiment, not how the government views foreign policy. I am sure the same is with american policy, peoplel might have a totally different point of voew compared to what the governemnt does. I guess that is something common in democracies.

What I think will bring a drastic change in relationship between the two is US opening technological doors for India, ie. Access to Hi-Tech technologu and India instead opening up her market for US goods. The market if open already but every item imported has a huge duty to be paid. This is actually happening.

What is in store for India?

India will have access to a whole range of technology to develop and improve various indutry sectors, space programs and uplift human standard of living.

What is in store for america?

American products in India. That means increase in manufacturing jobs and hi-tech jobs. Thats 1 billion people for commerce available. And 75% of them are above poverty line and a strong everyday growing 300+ million middle class population who are spending like never before.

Praxus
04 Jan 04,, 19:20
You can't forget that India's population is going to be larger then China's in the upcoming years.

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 19:21
I think Ferry range is 3900. 1000 was combat radius. I could br wrong, but I picked that up from internet.

sam0001
04 Jan 04,, 21:16
Population is futuristic, May be or may not be. But what makes India more attractive and has over an edge with china is the democratic system and moreover, India byfar as one of the most open and transparent system in the world. You would not see a copy of GM or Ford cars in India unlike china. India is building corporations in global marketplace. China on the other hand lesser corporate sucessess that come from china. Source: fortune magazine.

But china cannot be ignored. Even with all the copyright problems in china, the global companies do not want to miss out the pie they can get from china. Infact, these are the only two countries in the world that can give massive growth opportunities to global companies.

vasista_tata
07 Jan 04,, 09:35
Originally posted by sam0001
Population is futuristic, May be or may not be. But what makes India more attractive and has over an edge with china is the democratic system and moreover, India byfar as one of the most open and transparent system in the world. You would not see a copy of GM or Ford cars in India unlike china. India is building corporations in global marketplace. China on the other hand lesser corporate sucessess that come from china. Source: fortune magazine.

But china cannot be ignored. Even with all the copyright problems in china, the global companies do not want to miss out the pie they can get from china. Infact, these are the only two countries in the world that can give massive growth opportunities to global companies.
India more attractive and has over an edge with china is the democratic system
yes you are right and more over we do not suppress civilians

vasista_tata
07 Jan 04,, 10:08
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Current/LCA/LCA18.jpg

troung
09 Jan 04,, 07:06
“How does it compare to the F-16 Block 60/62?”

Not well at all. The F-16 B-60 has a better range and of course better radar (AESA), much larger payload, an IRST, better strike weapons and the combat proven AIM-120.

Diving Falcon
29 Apr 04,, 01:48
The LCA (or Tejas) is around 70% as capable as the F-16E/F Block-60, comparing the ranges, avionics, weapons, and other systems, the LCA is more on the lines and class of the Taiwanese Indiginous Fighter and the Chinese JF-17.

troung
03 May 04,, 05:35
“The LCA (or Tejas) is around 70% as capable as the F-16E/F Block-60, comparing the ranges, avionics, weapons, and other systems, the LCA is more on the lines and class of the Taiwanese Indiginous Fighter and the Chinese JF-17.”

Were did you get that it is 70% as capable as the F-16E/F? It has no IRST as of now, no CFTs, no AESA, lacks the range, payload, top speed and such. It terms of brute performance it does not stack up well with an F-16A/B-MLU-4/B-20 or F-16C/D B-40/42/50/52 much less the F-16C/D B-50/52+.

That said it does stack up with other Asian light fighters such as the F-CK-1A/B and FC-1.

“How viable will it be as a fighter jet?”

Well if it gets inducted it should be fine for the region. The backbone of the PAF’s tactical fighter force will be the FC-1, which the LCA matches up to very well. They should have similar weapons, payloads, ranges, missions, and agility (can’t be sure). Both will use missiles based on the R-77E (the SD-10 uses the same seeker and data-link) along with both likely using missiles slaved to a HMS. Both should be able to use laser guided bombs and self laze.

For the region it could turn out to be the next F-86E/F v Hunter FGA match up.

Does anyone have the picture of the LCA brochure with a picture (not mockup) carrying a LITENING LDP? I saw that picture a while ago and forget to save it.

Aryan
05 May 04,, 00:21
Troung

What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?

Diving Falcon
05 May 04,, 01:54
What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?
The unit cost of the LCA is quite large too, I don't know how many the IAF will really induct, especially after the 3-Week Buzz about the IAF Signing a 139 Mirage 2000-5 deal (hey what happened to that deal anyways, I haven't really heard of any signing or anything for some weeks now), so I doubt the number of LCAs being inducted will be more than 200.

flanker27
05 May 04,, 17:22
The unit cost of the LCA is quite large too, I don't know how many the IAF will really induct, especially after the 3-Week Buzz about the IAF Signing a 139 Mirage 2000-5 deal (hey what happened to that deal anyways, I haven't really heard of any signing or anything for some weeks now), so I doubt the number of LCAs being inducted will be more than 200.

The 125+ mirage-2000-5s is needed to replace around 125 old Mig-23, Mig-27 ground attack aircrafts which are on the verge of being phased out and not MiG-21s. LCA is a separate issue because LCA is required to replace IAF's 300 old Mig-21s. It has nothing to do with the Mirage deal because 125 Mirages will not be a replacement for 300+ Mig-21s.

Also accoding to a latest article from Defence News, dated Apr 23, 2004, the IAF currently has a plan to increase it's fighter fleet from 40 squadrons to 60 in the next 10 years. Hence you will see IAF buying a lot of fighter jets in the coming years from abroad, apart from just inducting LCAs.

Diving Falcon
06 May 04,, 21:10
You must realize that the LCA's cost is soon to equal the cost of the Mirage 2000-5, now what would be the point of buying the 126 Mirage 2000-5s and NOT LCAs from 2010?

See, France's production line of Mirage 2000-5s is very small, and I mean ranging from 10-15 planes a year! Next, the LCA is entering mass production from 2010!

So, since India (HAL) is building those Mirage 2000-5s at home and to be fair the IAF is also buying Mirage 2000-5s from Dassault of France too. So that means, the IAF will be getting around 10 Mirage 2000-5s a year from 2006 (if it signs a deal with France in 2004).

So, it'll take the IAF around 12 years to acquire 126 Mirage 2000-5s, so wouldn't it take around 10 years to acquire 220 LCAs?

Ideally, I'm sure the IAF is well aware of the Mirage 2000-5's production line, and it wouldn't make any sence to go for the Mirages if the LCA is also available at the same rate, meaning, the LCA is likely affected by this Mirage deal.

flanker27
07 May 04,, 11:33
Ideally, I'm sure the IAF is well aware of the Mirage 2000-5's production line, and it wouldn't make any sence to go for the Mirages if the LCA is also available at the same rate, meaning, the LCA is likely affected by this Mirage deal.

If India does not buys then how will it replace it's huge numbers of old strike aircrafts (around 125+). The LCA cannot replace them because LCA is not a strike aircraft. LCA is meant to be a replacement for 400 old MiG-21s.

As for the problem of limited production line capability, I m sure there will be plans about it. For example currently a brand new production line is being set up in Koraput Orissa (South India) for making components of MKI like the AL-31FP engines ect so the the MKI serial production can go on smoothly. I m sure when LCA enters mass production it will too have it's dedicated production facility.

Also according to the current estimates the cost of LCA is around $22 million. That is much lesser than Mirage-2000-5.

Diving Falcon
12 May 04,, 21:56
If India does not buys then how will it replace it's huge numbers of old strike aircrafts (around 125+). The LCA cannot replace them because LCA is not a strike aircraft. LCA is meant to be a replacement for 400 old MiG-21s.

As for the problem of limited production line capability, I m sure there will be plans about it. For example currently a brand new production line is being set up in Koraput Orissa (South India) for making components of MKI like the AL-31FP engines ect so the the MKI serial production can go on smoothly. I m sure when LCA enters mass production it will too have it's dedicated production facility.

Also according to the current estimates the cost of LCA is around $22 million. That is much lesser than Mirage-2000-5.

What about the so-called MCA or PAK-FA, I thought it was supposed to fly in 2009 or something, or how about the SU-30MKI, doesn't it have any strike capability?

Jay
20 May 04,, 16:51
What about the so-called MCA or PAK-FA, I thought it was supposed to fly in 2009 or something,
What about it? And no, it cannot fly in 2009.


or how about the SU-30MKI, doesn't it have any strike capability?
Yes it can, but its not primarily inducted in InAF as a Strike fighter!

Diving Falcon
21 May 04,, 03:45
Firstly, the 126 Mirage 2000-5 deal hasn't been signed yet, and it has been 5 years since the IAF said it'll sign it, another thing, even if it does sign it, production rate will no go beyond 10 aircraft a year, this is including HAL.

Secondly, the LCA-Tejas is also yet to go into production, it has been under development for like 10 years, and after 20 years it'll enter full swing mass production.

Finally, the SU-30MKI thing, the first Indian built SU-30MKI isn't set to fly before 2007, this is according to Air Force Monthly.

Meaning, the IAF's plans are getting delayed, if it's Pakistan's luck or good fortune, by the time IAF completes it's plan (2020), the PAF will be ready, that is something must be realized.

Jay
21 May 04,, 15:19
PAF is ready ?? with what F/22's ??

zulu
22 May 04,, 04:40
Meaning, the IAF's plans are getting delayed, if it's Pakistan's luck or good fortune, by the time IAF completes it's plan (2020), the PAF will be ready, that is something must be realized.

What do you think, we are flying kites now???

troung
22 May 04,, 05:17
“What do you make of the LCA project, do you will be induced in large numbers?”

Very good chance as the plane does offer a good performance, it should be up to the task of fighting the PAF’s current/planned tactical fighters and of course they will build them in India giving it a strong lobby.

I would say the LCA even if it enters squadron service in 2010 would still be of much use. The FC-1 will enter squadron service buy 2007 or so but by then the InAF would have more then 50 Su-30K/MK-/1MKIs so they would not be at a disadvantage even though the MiG-21s will not be getting any younger. The LCA and the FC-1 are very close in performance and weapons loads just like the old Hunter FGAs and F-86E/Fs of the past wars (1965/71). I don’t want to get into the discussion of which one is more modern/capable as no one here will know until they fight and even then it is likely that they would not meet while they are both operating as fighters. That means that one would be likely on a ground attack mission and run into the other.

The LCA will be fighting along side the Su-30MKI (no doubt the best operational fighter in South Asia), Mirage 2000E/Ds (possibly M2K5s as well), the Phalcon AWACS, Il-78s and of course older MiG-29SEs (R-77E capable) and what ever else remains in service. The plane should be capable of using the current weapons in service such as the R-77E (AA-12), R-73E (AA-11), LITENING II LDP, LGBs, AS-30Ls and Kh-family guided missiles. So it would have a pretty good offensive punch for being a light tactical fighter.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 purchase could turn out to be India hedging their bets like the Su-7/Marut purchases in the late 1960s and the ROCAF getting 3 light weight tactical fighters in the same period. Also the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2 is a better longer ranged striker then the LCA and would be able to replace the MiG-23BNs, older MiG-21FL/MFs and the Jaguars much sooner then the LCA. That basically leaves the LCA to phase out the MiG-27MLs and MiG-21UPGs.

Hawk_eye
22 May 04,, 15:28
I think Ferry range is 3900. 1000 was combat radius. I could br wrong, but I picked that up from internet.

Are you serious? :eek:

Here is what one strategiest had to say:

I don't think either of the two the LCA or the J-10 are anywhere near the F-16 in terms of combat. I still feel the two espically the LCA has a long way to go even before it can be called a fighter jet.

Among the IAF planes, if any plane that can compete with the USAF F-16 D/E, it would have to be the Su - 30 MKI or the Mirage 2000. I personally think hte Su - 30 MKI has a definate edge over the F - 16 D/E where as the Mirage 2000 will be more like it's equal. But the LCA is no where near the Su - 30 or the Mirage in terms of the kinds of weapons it can carry, range, handling, stealthiness, speed etc... So I think the LCA has a long way to go.

The basic LCA design has a lot of potential, the Delta wing design which is also used in the Mirage 2000's and the Rafaels. Also the size of the LCA, being one of the or the smallest in the world is an advantage. I think the places the LCA needs to improve on are the following.

Speed - It only has a max speed of 1.4 Mach right now. Atleast 2.0 is required.

Weapons - It as of now only has 7 hardpoints which are okay for an LCA, but it's variety of weapons needs to improve a lot. It should be able to carry all kinds of weapons in order to be a successful multi-role fighter

3- It's Electronic Warfare Frame needs to be improved. I know it has in-coorporated the Fly-by-wire technology, which is excellent, but it still needs a robust EW, Electronic Jaming systems and a very advanced Radar.

I think if the above are imporved, it would definately be a very very very successful fighter, and will be able to compete with fighers like F - 16, F - 18, Su - 30, Rafaels, etc..

Jay
22 May 04,, 17:38
I think if the above are imporved, it would definately be a very very very successful fighter, and will be able to compete with fighers like F - 16, F - 18, Su - 30, Rafaels, etc..
jeez, when will you stop comparing apples and oranges!!

Hawk_eye
22 May 04,, 17:49
jeez, when will you stop comparing apples and oranges!!

Sorry about that... :biggrin:

And jay if i may ask for your view on the article bellow:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-5/narayanan.html

many thanks...

Diving Falcon
23 May 04,, 00:48
It'll take until 2020 for the IAF to make it's dreams come true, and by then, the PAF's JF-17 fleet will be active at numbers of 150-200, possible additions of 60 J-10s or Mirage 2000-9s is also expected.

Jay
23 May 04,, 18:58
It'll take until 2020 for the IAF to make it's dreams come true, and by then, the PAF's JF-17 fleet will be active at numbers of 150-200, possible additions of 60 J-10s or Mirage 2000-9s is also expected.

Speculation doesnt count!! Other than the possible Mirage purchase everything else is set for InAF.

Jay
23 May 04,, 19:01
And jay if i may ask for your view on the article bellow:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-5/narayanan.html

I dont see anything wrong in that article! Its just a line by line rebuttal to the "Nut"karni critizism!

Diving Falcon
23 May 04,, 23:13
Speculation doesnt count!! Other than the possible Mirage purchase everything else is set for InAF.
Really?

So, is the IAF set to have Phalcon, especially when the new government is planning to withdraw all ties with Israel. Is the IAF set when it's 220 LCAs were supposed to have arrived by 2010, but production is set to start in 2010, no sooner?

About the SU-30MKI, have you realized it's production rate, and the fact that the first Indian built SU-30MKI won't fly before 2007?

Jay
24 May 04,, 05:34
So, is the IAF set to have Phalcon, especially when the new government is planning to withdraw all ties with Israel.[quote]
Really? So did you personally had a chat with Pranab Mukherjee ?? Just bcoz the communists shot doesnt mean that its gonna happen! May be you need to look at the Cabinet ministers and their profiles. Not to mention that the airframe is already procured.

[quote]Is the IAF set when it's 220 LCAs were supposed to have arrived by 2010, but production is set to start in 2010, no sooner?
I think you are quoting early 1990 figures here. DRDO and InAF has set realistic deadlines this time, and more over they are consistent with the results. May be google for the LCA timeline and compare it with DRDO reports.



About the SU-30MKI, have you realized it's production rate, and the fact that the first Indian built SU-30MKI won't fly before 2007?
Yes, I didnt say it's gonna fly tomorrow. The point is MKI's will be manufactured in India and will roll out from 2007. That aint called speculation.

Other than JF-17 PAF has nothing concrete in the pipeline...only unnamed sources say that PAF might recieve J-10, and no I dont want to know about your uncles grandfathers cousin source. So what ever else you say will be considered pure speculation. And no, JF-17 is not enuff to counter InAF.

Diving Falcon
24 May 04,, 15:03
Jay...

A couple of Top-Ranking PAF Officers were given interviews about the JF-17, did you by any chance read them?

Haven't you read the interview with the Air Chief, about the PAF's plans to acquire advanced aircraft besides the JF-17?

Here, take this quote...

LAHORE: Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Kaleem Saadat has said the PAF will be equipped with the frontline, state-of-the-art fighter aircraft within three years to address the regional imbalance in the skies.

In an exclusive panel interview to The News, the Air Chief Marshal hinted at equipping the PAF with, at least, 60 air-superiority aircraft in the near futurefor enabling the PAF to defend the country’s aerial frontiers. The PAF is expected to finalize one of the available options soon.

The interview panel comprised Salim Bokhari, and Mayed Ali. Discussing the multiple options which the PAF is weighing, the ACM said, the French Mirage 2000-9, Chinese J-10 (F-10), US F-16s and Swedish AJ-39 (Grippens) were the potential hi-tech aircraft to meet the air force ‘s immediate requirement.

Any of these sophisticated jetfighters could help address the balance of air power in the region. "It is imperative for the PAF to equip its existing fleet with hi-tech air-superiority aircraft to counter any aerial threat in future.

The ACM said the PAF had already presented the government with its future force goals for the next 10-15 years, and the government had not found anything wrong with that. He informed that the government had approved the plans submitted, and assured the PAF it would get the desired funds.

The ACM, however, maintained that the purchase of new aircraft was an exhaustive exercise. He believed it was quite a task to get the best value for the limited resources, as the prices varied with the technology. Quoting examples, he said any air force could purchase an aircraft between ranges of $5 million to $250 million (F-7 to F-22 Raptor). He said it depended on what gadget an air force wanted on board. More sophisticated the equipment one wanted on the aircraft higher would be the price-tag. Moreover, no deal could be ascertained as final till the agreement was signed for so many other factors played a vital role in the materialization of any deal. Ranging from technical reasons, financial constraints to diplomatic pressures, anything could leave an impact on the proposed plan.

During the interview the Air Chief discussed pros and cons of all the options and emphasized that best choice would be made to induct a suitable aircraft in the PAF’s inventory.

The Chief said the existing fleet - 30 plus F-16s and 50 F-7PGs - would go beyond 2012. In addition to this, he added, the PAF would acquire 150-200 JF-17 (Thunder) to meet the future demand. He said over and above this, the PAF would need 50-100 sophisticated western aircraft, which would be the leading edge of the air force

Jay
24 May 04,, 15:18
Discussing the multiple options which the PAF is weighing, the ACM said, the French Mirage 2000-9, Chinese J-10 (F-10), US F-16s and Swedish AJ-39 (Grippens) were the potential hi-tech aircraft to meet the air force ‘s immediate requirement.The PAF is expected to finalize one of the available options soon.

He said over and above this, the PAF would need 50-100 sophisticated western aircraft, which would be the leading edge of the air force
Falcon,
We all know the JF-17 wouldnt be enuff to counter InAF. So the ACM is speculating that PAF needs more to have a credible defence force. read the above, its pure speculation, he's just considering the options!

I dont know how old this article is, coz as usual the officials always say that they gonna buy something, but it ends up in nowhere's land!

Hawk_eye
24 May 04,, 15:22
I dont see anything wrong in that article! Its just a line by line rebuttal to the "Nut"karni critizism!
Thankyou! :D

Diving Falcon
25 May 04,, 02:33
Jay...

This article is recent, very recent, it was published like a week ago.

muazzam
02 Jun 04,, 15:41
hi friends , im preparing a presentation on LCA ,can any body help me about its role and task in IAF in detail. for example ina strike package will it be an escort or sweep aircraft or the strike package it self??

Diving Falcon
03 Jun 04,, 01:22
Check www.bharat-rakshak.com

Jaeger
03 Jun 04,, 11:57
I read somewhere that DRDO guys were working on 3D TVC control for the LCA, so that the vertical tail can go.
With this if they move the intake to a dorsal position, I'm sure it will help the RCS no end - more effective concealment of the engine blades .
That leaves just two things, AESA and IRST. For the latter, we just downsize the one on our MiG 29s and we should be in. AESA might be an issue, but calling in the Israelis/Russians/French to help shouldn't be a problem... (I have the feeling that I'm making this sound stupidly easy. Sorry, I tend to get carried away. :redface: )
I read they're already working on Kaveri 2, with higher thrust... i wonder if it will be enough to push the little blighter up to Mach 2... and yes, they should retain the LEVCONs from the Navy version in the AF one as well.
Yep that's about it... whos up for lunch? I hear they're serving honey fried JF 17 ribs at the Garden of the Golden Phalcon... :tongue:

ajaybhutani
23 Sep 04,, 22:49
I read somewhere that DRDO guys were working on 3D TVC control for the LCA, so that the vertical tail can go.
With this if they move the intake to a dorsal position, I'm sure it will help the RCS no end - more effective concealment of the engine blades .
That leaves just two things, AESA and IRST. For the latter, we just downsize the one on our MiG 29s and we should be in. AESA might be an issue, but calling in the Israelis/Russians/French to help shouldn't be a problem... (I have the feeling that I'm making this sound stupidly easy. Sorry, I tend to get carried away. :redface: )
I read they're already working on Kaveri 2, with higher thrust... i wonder if it will be enough to push the little blighter up to Mach 2... and yes, they should retain the LEVCONs from the Navy version in the AF one as well.
Yep that's about it... whos up for lunch? I hear they're serving honey fried JF 17 ribs at the Garden of the Golden Phalcon... :tongue:

i dont think 3D TVC will be any problem for us indians.We can get a lot of help from russians on this regards.Morevoer we are even gonna manufacture around 900 al31FP which is 3D TVC So we are getting the technology in 2005-6 i geuss teh production with full indian components starts then .. So we need to work on integrating it.We can even get the better IRST's from Israelis/french/russians hosever has it. in case theres less time.Or take their help in constructing the same.
AESA is an issue But i think french can help in that LOL.. i know i m sounding all rubbish butthe point is that we need to get LCA inducted as fast as possible so we need some lot of patches like ToT and production.


By the way does anyone have specs of the Radar to be integrated with LCA. i could just find that its MMR but nothin else.

Whats the condition of astra ??

The Chap
25 Sep 04,, 07:03
Looks like the front half of a Tornado welded to the arse-end of an old Delta Dart to me. ;)

ajaybhutani
25 Sep 04,, 17:32
Looks like the front half of a Tornado welded to the arse-end of an old Delta Dart to me. ;)
Well i think looks dont matter. Waht metters is that if it can perform .Though the pilots testing it said that it is more easy in handling that Mirage 2000H that india has.Its a long way to go to find out how it will turn out to be .We will get a better picture when the fourth aircraft flys in november with weapons integration. After all we dont have to use them as a show peice but as weapons ... :)

bull
04 May 05,, 07:45
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=2470

NEW DELHI: The new American F/A-22 Raptor stealth fighter costs Rs 480 crore. The Rafale multi-role jet being inducted into the French Air Force and Navy, in turn, notches about Rs 270 crore. The price tag for the French Mirage-2000 and the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen also hovers between Rs 130 crore and Rs 160 crore.


In contrast, despite huge time and cost overruns, the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft "Tejas" will cost only Rs 100-110 crore. And perish any thought of Tejas becoming "obsolete" by 2010 when it will be inducted into the IAF. Its "open-architecture" avionics and "glass cockpit" systems ensure it can be constantly upgraded.

This was the basic message delivered by defence minister Pranab Mukherjee, defence secretary Ajai Vikram Singh, DRDO chief M Natarajan and others to the Parliamentary Consultative Committee on Defence on Tuesday after members expressed serious concerns about the long-delayed project.

The MPs were also told that Tejas, which will be the world's smallest, lightweight and relatively cheapest frontline combat aircraft, had excellent "export potential". Sources said Brazilian aviation major Embraer - India has ordered five Legacy VVIP jets from it for Rs 727 crore - has already shown interest to jointly market Tejas worldwide.


The development cost for Tejas, which has now completed 395 test flights and even crossed the 1.4 Mach supersonic speed barrier, is currently pegged at Rs 5,489 crore. This again is quite low compared to Gripen's development cost of around Rs 12,640 crore.

The LCA project, of course, was sanctioned way back in 1983 to replace India's ageing MiG fleet. The project cost was only Rs 560 crore then. The parliamentary standing committee on defence has, in fact, asked the government to "fix responsibility" for the inordinate delays in the project and the indigenous Kaveri engine.

The snags in Kaveri has meant that the first two Tejas squadrons will be powered by the American GE-404 engines. The IAF has projected a requirement of 200 Tejas fighters and 20 trainers at present.


Defence officials say Tejas incorporates several "new" technologies like "unstable aerodynamic configuration" to achieve higher agility, fly-by-wire flight control system, digital integrated avionics, advanced optroncis, multi-mode radar and composite airframe

uss
06 May 05,, 02:51
Gentlemen,

Here is a little nitpicking:

Compared to the f16 blk 50+ (incldg blk60), LCA has some advantages:
1) HMS (i'm not sure cause i have read the blk 52s also have these)
2) More composites (supposedly has the lrgst amount of composites than any other non-stealthy fighter)
3) Add to point 2 the fact that it is the smallest fighter a/c around, it's RCS will be v.v.small if not the smallest for non stealth a/c.
4) As regards the weapons it is supposed to carry:
indian (astra), russian (whole bunch), israeli. This wide variety would give it a pretty good advantage over most other gen 4 + a/c.
6) The LCA radar is no slouch either, the MMR (speculative figures are TWS 10: 4). This is comparable to the Zhuk M (which by the way is smaller in size than MMR and still claims to TWS 20:6). Also uses ELTA - litening II LDP.
7) As the ECM suite of the LCA, the least one can expect is a fully integrated suite comprising of tarang2/tranquil, el 8222 etc
8) Open Architecture i.e. can be modified further into more wicked configurations.

Yes, the F16 blk 60 would still have an edge because of the AESA. I do not think the blk 50/52 will have that edge. LCA in a2a will at least be competitive with the BLK 52 (a2g - the f16 would probly the edge).


The later versions of the LCA may have TVC and AESA (US and Fra are'nt the only ones develpg this tech, Israelis have already started flight testing the el 2052 which was shown at Aero INdia 05. India too has it's own program apart from the Russians.) This technology will come sooner than later.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
USS

Aryaramnaes
07 May 05,, 17:26
Tejas completes 400 test flight sorties
Bangalore, May 7.(PTI): India's Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, completed 400 test flight sorties today when Technology Demonstrator-1 (TD-1) and Proto Vehicle-1 (PV-1) were flown this morning, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) said.

Today's flight tests were conducted for calibration of air data system at different altitudes and speeds for TD1, which is now ready for exploration of the flight envelope further, ADA said in a statement here.

Duration of the flight was 47 minutes for both the aircraft, it said.

Tejas TD-1 has been fitted with new nose air data probe after its 75 hour scheduled servicing, the statement said.

The fourth aircraft PV2 with reduced structural weight, completely new avionics and cockpit displays is presently undergoing vibration and structural coupling tests.

This aircraft would also be fitted with multi-mode radar, R73 missile and drop tanks, it said, adding, its maiden flight is scheduled for the next month

bull
17 Jul 05,, 12:14
The Prototype Vehicle-2 (PV-2) version of Tejas, the indigenously designed and developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), will be ready in a few days, said Ashok K. Baweja, chairman, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), here on Friday. The aviation major has also started talks with the IAF for the supply of 40 LCAs, he said.

Speaking to presspersons, Mr. Baweja said the limited series production of eight Tejas aircraft for the IAF is on. The IAF has indicated that it wants 20 more aircraft, with an option to procure another 20.

asdf
17 Jul 05,, 12:48
I read somewhere that DRDO guys were working on 3D TVC control for the LCA, so that the vertical tail can go.

How about learning to walk or crawl first! :tongue:



I read they're already working on Kaveri 2, with higher thrust... i wonder if it will be enough to push the little blighter up to Mach 2... and yes, they should retain the LEVCONs from the Navy version in the AF one as well.

Kaveri-1 is still in LALALAND and you're dreaming about Kaveri-2. :tongue: ?? :biggrin: LMAFO


I like this show. :biggrin: clap clap

Samudra
17 Jul 05,, 16:20
I understand that the ECM suite is a state of the art one.
Because , the IAF has been standardising on that.

Just wait for the PV-2.That baby will reveal to our hearts content. ;)