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Jana
17 Jun 06,, 16:53
much had been said and posted on 1971 .

Here is something published by indian newspaper today.

See the link for images also.


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060319/asp/look/story_5969733.asp

Jay
17 Jun 06,, 17:12
Facts my a$$. Sarmila Bose again, she took one event(Jessore massacare) and you extrapolate it to whole of Bangaldesh. Real genius, eh??

Did you ever get a chance to read Hamdoor comission report by your Pakistan govt?

There are many accounts of people who were in the grave yard and war grounds, so I wish Sarmila Bose had checked their accounts too, she just brushed them under the carpet as partisan reports. So according to her view only the BBC reporter in 1971 was telling the truth, the rest of them were a pack of lies.

I just wish they took the pictures of hundreds of thousands of dead bangla's just to shove it on Sarmila's throat.

Neo
17 Jun 06,, 21:57
The images are horrible! :mad:

Tronic
17 Jun 06,, 23:28
yea... sort of... but I guess ive seen worse... high-megapixel pics from Iraq war... and plus, the videos of the beheadings of prisoners by the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan are quite gruesome (and easy to find on the internet)...

Skydancer
18 Jun 06,, 00:18
she just brushed them under the carpet as partisan reports.
Please dont let your bias cloud your judgement.

Tronic
18 Jun 06,, 02:26
bias about what? Jay stated that the author only used the incident at Jessore... he is not denying the incident... he is merely saying... ok.. at Jessore some Bengali rebels killed these people, but what about the rest of East Pakistan where hundreds of thousands of Bengalis were slaughtered by the Pak Army... the author has brushed aside the massace of hundreds of thousands of Bengali's all over East Pakistan meanwhile highlighting the killings of a few hundred at Jessore...

Ray
18 Jun 06,, 09:18
Jana,

If it will only please you, India was defeated in 1971 and 93,000 PsW were all Indians! ;)

At this rate, Salman Rushdie would be taken as having written the truth about Islam, Mohammed and the Koran in in Satanic Verses! :eek:

Go figure!

Skydancer
18 Jun 06,, 11:38
Jana,

If it will only please you, India was defeated in 1971 and 93,000 PsW were all Indians! ;)

At this rate, Salman Rushdie would be taken as having written the truth about Islam, Mohammed and the Koran in in Satanic Verses! :eek:

Go figure!

Out of 93,000 only 45,000 something were regular soldiers, the rest were civilians and civil servants!!!

Tronic
18 Jun 06,, 15:39
thats not what the Pakistani government acknowledged to...

Vaman
18 Jun 06,, 16:33
You know... the entire thing is based on one (mis?)labelled photograph. From that to blaming the entire bangladeshi nationalist movement for the genocide in BD is a huge leap, but not one that idiots wouldnt take.


The alternative caption is in The East Pakistan Tragedy, by L.F. Rushbrook Williams, written in 1971 before the independence of Bangladesh. Rushbrook Williams is strongly in favour of the Pakistan government and highly critical of the Awami League.
..
..
There was no reason to think he would willfully mislabel a photo of a massacre.

:biggrin:
Thats like saying someone who has been involved in 100 robberies would not rob again.
The reason for mislabelling is right there in bold

In anycase, it was the sort of thing to be expected from the west which either chose to ignore and/or shield its ally - Pakistan - which was going around committing the genocide in BD.
BD genocides by the Paks is not something that one hears of often simply because it happened to be a US ally. Where as something like the Nanking Massacre is a lot more familiar because Japan was on the other side.

Tronic
18 Jun 06,, 17:04
and to think that the US even sent a carrier force to protect the army carrying out such a genocide...

lemontree
19 Jun 06,, 05:14
Out of 93,000 only 45,000 something were regular soldiers, the rest were civilians and civil servants!!!
Not civilian per say, but paramilitary, razakars, police, and uniformed non-combatants. etc.

My battalion along with 1 Maratha LI and 2 Para, were the first troops to enter Dacca, and we along with 1 Maratha LI took the surrender of the PA units at the race course.

Now hell with Sharmila Bose or Arundhati Roy, I will believe telegrams of the US Embassy in Dacca (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf) referring to the PA atrocities in March 1971.

bull
19 Jun 06,, 08:20
Not civilian per say, but paramilitary, razakars, police, and uniformed non-combatants. etc.

My battalion along with 1 Maratha LI and 2 Para, were the first troops to enter Dacca, and we along with 1 Maratha LI took the surrender of the PA units at the race course.

Now hell with Sharmila Bose or Arundhati Roy, I will believe telegrams of the US Embassy in Dacca (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB79/BEBB6.pdf) referring to the PA atrocities in March 1971.

Jana,
I think what Lt has posted settles the matter,right?

Or do u have more "truth" with you.

Vaman
20 Jun 06,, 15:27
*bump*....
for people who cant read..

Jana
20 Jun 06,, 16:20
Jana,

If it will only please you, India was defeated in 1971 and 93,000 PsW were all Indians! ;)

At this rate, Salman Rushdie would be taken as having written the truth about Islam, Mohammed and the Koran in in Satanic Verses! :eek:

Go figure!

:) Sir Ray if at all one had to expect this kind of post from an experince and sophisticated (i think u must be) person like you than where poor huris and venam type people will go.
With my due appology sir but atleast it wasnt expected from a person like you.

Jana
20 Jun 06,, 16:24
Jana,
I think what Lt has posted settles the matter,right?

Or do u have more "truth" with you.

:) bull :) :) at times we should atleast for once think neutrally.



http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=14797

Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country’s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report.



http://dawn.com/2005/07/07/nat3.htm



Though they're only admitting it now, because they cannot carry on the stupidity. Especially after Archie Blood, the primary US advocate of genocide retracted all his comments about the '71 war being a genocide. "… as Bengali resistance increased in the countryside, and a situation of civil war was approached, we realised that the term “genocide” was not appropriate to characterise all killings of Muslim Bengalis. Atrocities were being committed on both sides…It seemed to us that Army violence was increasingly being used for military purposes, i e, to secure control of the countryside. "

Blood, Archer (2002): The Cruel Birth of Bangladesh: Memoirs of an American Diplomat, The University Press, Dhaka

You can read bits from that book here



http://www.epw.org.in/showArticles.php?roo...3&filetype=html[/quote]

Dreadnought
20 Jun 06,, 16:25
and to think that the US even sent a carrier force to protect the army carrying out such a genocide...

And under what pretences did the U.S. send its carrier force?

Vaman
20 Jun 06,, 16:42
Stopping the spread of the commie ideology by supporting little dictators and warlords in the third world even if it means genocide.
What else?

Tronic
20 Jun 06,, 17:37
And under what pretences did the U.S. send its carrier force?
to shield an ally carrying out the genocide... Pak Army was getting whooped in the war and US decided they should help even if the Pak's were massacaring civillians...

Vaman
20 Jun 06,, 18:06
Sometimes I really wonder if we did the right thing in intervening in BD.

BD is close to becoming another islamic state and on its way to becoming a copy of The Paks in terms of fanaticism.
I am pretty sure in the times to come a revisionist history would claim that there was no genocide at all and it was a conspiracy manufactured by the conniving hindus and so on. All this with the support of "historians" from the west for whom countries like Pak will remain willing allies/servants.

gilgamesh
20 Jun 06,, 18:41
And under what pretences did the U.S. send its carrier force?

Nixon simply hated Indians.

Tronic
20 Jun 06,, 18:49
that too...

Vaman
20 Jun 06,, 18:58
Nixon simply hated Indians.

We were commies after all..atleast in the american world view.
"If you are not with us..."

Neo
20 Jun 06,, 18:59
Nixon simply hated Indians.
No, just the commies. ;)

gilgamesh
20 Jun 06,, 19:08
There were personality clashes between Indira Gandhi and Nixon(Kissinger poured fuel over the fire). Also the respective policy establishments did not see eye to eye. State dept considered India's foreign policy establishment as arrogant and condescending. Feeling was mutual.

667medic
20 Jun 06,, 22:17
No, just the commies. ;)
Nixon hated anyone who disagreed with him, even Americans. Kissinger was just sucking up to him....

Vepr
20 Jun 06,, 23:09
And under what pretences did the U.S. send its carrier force?
To rescue American citizens in Bangladesh.

Tronic
20 Jun 06,, 23:20
with naval fighter planes? plus, foreigners were allowed to leave (and even ordered to leave) Pakistan (expecially East Pakistan) even before the war started...

667medic
21 Jun 06,, 12:42
with naval fighter planes? plus, foreigners were allowed to leave (and even ordered to leave) Pakistan (expecially East Pakistan) even before the war started...
The whole drama was to intimidate Indira Gandhi. Unfortunately for them, Soviet sent a Nuke Sub, the Americans then blinked.
BTW Nixon's anxiety to protect Yahya must be looked from the perspective of the early 70's. The Vietnam war was raging, the Chinese had influence over the Vietnamese. And Yahya was the secret conduit between Nixon and Zhou Enlai. Moreover there was this so called credibility issue, the Americans wanted to show the Chinese that they were capable of protecting their "allies"...

bull
21 Jun 06,, 13:20
:) bull :) :) at times we should atleast for once think neutrally.



http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=14797

Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country’s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report.



http://dawn.com/2005/07/07/nat3.htm

Though they're only admitting it now, because they cannot carry on the stupidity. Especially after Archie Blood, the primary US advocate of genocide retracted all his comments about the '71 war being a genocide. "… as Bengali resistance increased in the countryside, and a situation of civil war was approached, we realised that the term “genocide” was not appropriate to characterise all killings of Muslim Bengalis. Atrocities were being committed on both sides…It seemed to us that Army violence was increasingly being used for military purposes, i e, to secure control of the countryside. "

Blood, Archer (2002): The Cruel Birth of Bangladesh: Memoirs of an American Diplomat, The University Press, Dhaka

You can read bits from that book here



http://www.epw.org.in/showArticles.php?roo...3&filetype=html[/QUOTE]

I do agree Jana that we shud be neutral too....but then whats neutral abt what u posted.They are just comments or articles written in pakistani newspapers.