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ZFBoxcar
03 Jun 06,, 15:18
TIMOTHY APPLEBY
Globe and Mail Update
Police across the Greater Toronto Area launched counterterrorism raids Friday, arresting at least eight people in a roundup expected to continue overnight and beyond.

Media reports Saturday alleged that the suspects engaged in terror training camps north of Toronto. It was further alleged that a group were plotting to attack targets in Toronto including the headquarters of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

RCMP and CSIS officials were expected to address theses allegations at a press conference to be held Saturday morning at 10 .a.m.

“We anticipate more arrests, but not necessarily tonight,” an RCMP source said of the arrests, in what appeared to be the most concerted such sweep in Canada since the terrorist attacks in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service aided the RCMP and officers from Toronto, Peel and Durham in detaining the suspects, described by an undercover officer involved in the operation as “terrorists, the ones who hate the West.”

The ethnicity of the group was not clear. A well- placed police source said they are Muslims, but not Arabs, and unconnected to anti-terrorism raids that occurred simultaneously in Britain yesterday.

Quoting anonymous sources, CBC said the targets of the raid are suspected of connections with al-Qaeda. A Canadian Press report said the arrests stemmed from a plot involving explosives.

While the intended target is unclear, the plan was to detonate an explosive device in Ontario, a source who asked not to be named told Canadian Press. “That's the tool of choice for anybody who wants to cause damage.”

The suspects, whom one report said numbered 10, were being held at a Durham Regional Police station in Pickering, which late Friday night resembled a fortress under siege.

A spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office declined to comment last night, saying the government does not want to interfere in police operations.

The Integrated National Enforcement Team, comprising the RCMP and other police, CSIS and federal agencies such as the Canada Border Services Agency, will hold a press conference this morning to outline charges and further details.

A source in Pickering said that during the day, heavily armed tactical officers were seen near a local mosque that serves about 1,000 families in the area. But a mosque trustee said he did not know of any police raids in the vicinity. He was at the mosque for 3 p.m. prayers and nothing seemed amiss, he said. With reports from Jeff Sallot and Oliver Moore

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060603.wwarrants0603_2/BNStory/National/home

Confed999
03 Jun 06,, 18:08
Thank God your people were on the ball.

CNN's take on it:

Toronto terror plot foiled -- Canada

TORONTO, Ontario (CNN) -- Canadian police on Saturday said they have prevented a major al Qaeda-inspired terror plot to attack targets in southern Ontario.

Twelve adults and five young people were arrested, authorities said.

"This group took steps to acquire three tons of ammonium nitrate and other components necessary to create explosive devices," said Royal Canadian Mounted Police Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell. (Watch police chief say how the bomb materials were obtained -- 0:36)

"To put this in context, the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people took one ton of ammonium nitrate."

The detained suspects are all men, Canadian residents "from a variety of backgrounds" and followers of a "dangerous ideology inspired by al Qaeda," said Luc Portelance, assistant director of operations for Canadian Security Intelligence Service, in a news conference. (Full list of adult suspects)

The targets were all in Toronto, CNN's Jeanne Meserve reported at least one source as telling her.

The charges include: participating in terrorist group activity, including training and recruitment; the provision of property for terrorist purposes; and the "commission of indictable offenses, including firearms and explosives in association with a terrorist group."

"Canada is not immune to the threat of terrorism," McDonell said.

MORE... (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/03/canada.terror/index.html)

ZFBoxcar
03 Jun 06,, 18:14
TORONTO (CP) - Police have arrested 17 people and foiled a series of terrorist attacks on targets in southern Ontario.

The RCMP have charged 12 Ontario men who were to appear in court later Saturday in Brampton, west of Toronto. The men range in age from 19 to 43, and are residents of Toronto, Mississauga and Kingston.

Five youths who cannot be identified under the Youth Criminal Justice Act have also been arrested and charged.

The announcement came at a news conference following a series of arrests Friday night on a group that the Mounties say posed a "real and serious threat."

In addition to the arrests, police recovered three tonnes of ammonium nitrate, a commonly used fertilizer used in the making of explosives.

"It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack," said RCMP Asst. Commissioner Mike McDonell. "If I can put this in context for you, the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people was completed with only one tonne of ammonium nitrate."

"This group posed a real and serious threat," he added. "It had the capacity and intent to carry out these acts."

Police say the Toronto Transit Commission - a public transit system that includes buses, subways and streetcars - was not among the targets.

Luc Portelance of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service said those arrested are Canadian residents from variety of backgrounds.

The sweep began Friday night in co-operation with an Integrated National Security Enforcement Team, or INSET.

INSET teams are made up of members of the RCMP, CSIS, federal agencies such as the Canada Border Services Agency and Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and provincial and municipal police services.

The dramatic events raised the chilling prospect of a terrorist assault on Canadian soil - which authorities have feared since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S.

Scores of officers, many heavily armed, took suspects into custody at a police station in Pickering, Ont., east of Toronto, following the raids.

-

TORONTO (CP) - A list of the adults arrested and charged with offences under the Criminal Code of Canada. Five youths, who cannot be named, were also charged:

1. Fahim Ahmad, 21, Toronto;

2. Zakaria Amara, 20, Mississauga, Ont.;

3. Asad Ansari, 21, Mississauga;

4. Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Mississauga;

5. Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mississauga;

6. Mohammed Dirie, 22, Kingston, Ont.;

7. Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Kingston;

8. Jahmaal James, 23, Toronto;

9. Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Toronto;

10. Steven Vikash Chand alias Abdul Shakur, 25, Toronto;

11. Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, Mississauga;

12. Saad Khalid, 19, of Eclipse Avenue, Mississauga.

-

OTTAWA (CP) Statement by Prime Minister Stephen Harper regarding terrorism-related arrests of 12 men and five youths, all from Ontario:

"This morning, Canadians awoke to the news that our law enforcement and national security agencies have arrested 17 individuals for terrorism related offences.

"These individuals were allegedly intent on committing acts of terrorism against their own country and their own people.

"As we have said on many occasions, Canada is not immune to the threat of terrorism. Through the work and co-operation of the RCMP, CSIS, local law enforcement and Toronto's Integrated National Security Enforcement Team (INSET), acts of violence by extremist groups may have been prevented.

"Today, Canada's security and intelligence measures worked. Canada's new government will pursue its efforts to ensure the national security of all Canadians."

Officer of Engineers
03 Jun 06,, 18:18
One of wife's cousins are visiting us. She asked, "whatever did we do to them?"

I responded, "We're Canadians."

ZFBoxcar
03 Jun 06,, 18:19
Beat me to it Rob. ;)

Hari_Om
03 Jun 06,, 20:10
This one specifically for OOE.

None of these individuals is of Pakistani origin ;) .

smilingassassin
03 Jun 06,, 20:47
Doesn't matter where they are from really, they were somehow recruted or inspired by Al-Q. I'm glad these wackjobs are off the street, now lets throw the book at em as hard as we possibly can. Apparently the targets where the CN tower and the Subway system but no confermation on that.

If simply being Canadian makes me their enemy thats just tough for them....

Officer of Engineers
04 Jun 06,, 00:32
This one specifically for OOE.

None of these individuals is of Pakistani origin ;) .

I'm under no illusions that arseholes are nationality specific.

ChrisF202
04 Jun 06,, 00:59
Wow, good job Mounties!

Who are all these people in gray uniforms I see on TV? Did the New York State Police cross the border and take over or something :) ?

ZFBoxcar
04 Jun 06,, 01:22
haha the Mounties only wear the red uniforms/those weird hats on special occasions.

ChrisF202
04 Jun 06,, 01:26
Ah lol :rolleyes:

I thaught they wore blue for a normal everday uniform?

ZFBoxcar
04 Jun 06,, 01:47
According to wikipedia


The everyday uniform consists of a grey shirt with dark blue tie, dark blue trousers with gold strapping, regular patrol boots called "ankle boots", regular duty equipment, and a regular policeman's style cap. A blue "Gore-Tex" open-collar jacket is worn by Constables, Corporals, Sergeants, and Staff Sergeants while a dark blue jacket, with a white shirt in place of the grey shirt, is worn by Sergeants Major, certain Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs) usually involved in aspects of recruit training or media relations, and all officers from Inspector to Commissioner. Short sleeved shirts are worn in the summer by all members with Constables and NCOs not wearing the tie, and Officers wearing the tie year round. Winter dress consists of a long-sleeved shirt and tie for all members and, depending on the climate of the detachment area, heavier boots, jackets and a fur cap are worn.

TopHatter
04 Jun 06,, 01:47
Look at their ages. Only one is over 25 (quite a bit over 25 in his case). Plus 5 more underage kids.

Bunch of young punks.

Bunch of young punks that seem to think it would be just dandy to kill and maim hundreds or thousands of innocent men, women and children in their own country.

And why? For what? Who the hell do these people think they are?

ZFBoxcar
04 Jun 06,, 01:49
I imagine we will find out soon. 15 of them appeared in court today.

canoe
04 Jun 06,, 02:02
I'm still willing to bet Canadians won't wake up even after this. I think it will literally take a giant hole blasted through Toronto to wake people up.

1/3rd of the Canadians will somehow blame the Conservatives and/or Bush. Another 3rd will blame society for wronging these clearly *poorly* treated individuals. And the remaining 3rd will actually want these guys in jail and more safe guards put in place to prevent people like these from getting into the country.

canoe
04 Jun 06,, 02:04
Doesn't matter where they are from really, they were somehow recruted or inspired by Al-Q. I'm glad these wackjobs are off the street, now lets throw the book at em as hard as we possibly can. Apparently the targets where the CN tower and the Subway system but no confermation on that.

If simply being Canadian makes me their enemy thats just tough for them....

Its offically been confirmed the TO subway was not a target. One offical made a remake about hospitals, schools and tall office buildings downtown. But nothing offical has been released to the public.

TopHatter
04 Jun 06,, 02:12
I think it will literally take a giant hole blasted through Toronto to wake people up.
If they are anything like most Americans, they'd still fall asleep again after a year or two.

Confed999
04 Jun 06,, 02:17
If they are anything like most Americans, they'd still fall asleep again after a year or two.
Yes, it is sad how quickly some forget, but, fortunately, by then the wheels are usually already turning.

Officer of Engineers
04 Jun 06,, 02:45
I think it will literally take a giant hole blasted through Toronto to wake people up.

It will come. 25 people is a big cell. That means that we're now an active target. We've always have been but now this has been confirmed.

ChrisF202
04 Jun 06,, 03:43
Yes, it is sad how quickly some forget, but, fortunately, by then the wheels are usually already turning.
Couldent have said it better :frown:

We have known Islamic terrorist cells all over. God knows how many dirty bombs they have smuggled across the Mexican border ....

Hari_Om
04 Jun 06,, 06:00
Possible link with a Pakistani origin Georgia Tech student Syed Haris Ahmed and a Bangladeshi origin individual, Ehsanul Islam Sadequee :

FBI makes possible link between arrest of Toronto terror suspects and U.S. (http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article.jsp?content=n060333A)

Speaking of Ammonium Nitrate, currently in London a bunch of mainly Pakistani origin individuals are on trial for a planning a terrorist attack using that as an explosive :

Terror trial hears tapes of plot to blow up club (http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1783394,00.html)

That foiled terrorist attack had a Canadian dimension via a Canadian-Pakistani, Mohammad Momin Khawaja :

Momin Khawaja constitutes the Canadian end of the conspiracy (http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=408dc2ed-d950-4ee5-a4b7-392eb5faaf34&k=75162)

Another possible link ?

smilingassassin
04 Jun 06,, 08:02
http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060603/arrests_reaction_060603

Leaders condemn alleged Toronto terrorist plot
CTV.ca News Staff

Prime Minister Stephen Harper praised police Saturday for arresting 17 suspects who allegedly planned attacks on Canadian soil, and warned that the country is not immune to terrorism.

"Today, Canada's security and intelligence measures worked," said Harper. "Canada's new government will pursue its efforts to ensure the national security of all Canadians."

Later in the day, during an address to 224 new military recruits at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa, the prime minister said Canada's unique values make the nation a target for terrorists.

"We are a target because of who we are, how we live, our society, our diversity and our values -- values such as freedom, democracy and the rule of law -- the values that make Canada great," Harper told the recruits.

Meanwhile, Toronto Mayor David Miller revealed that Police Chief Bill Blair had kept him informed of the terror probe since January.

"I was very concerned, but I'm very relieved and pleased at the joint work of the police services," Miller said.

"I think we can take a lot of reassurance from the fact their work not only uncovered the actions as they were ongoing, but knew exactly when to step in to prevent any serious harm from occurring."

In total, police arrested 12 men and five youths on terrorism charges Friday.

The group is suspected of plotting to bomb targets in Southern Ontario. Police found three tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, which can be used to make explosives.

"It was their intent to use it for a terrorist attack," alleged RCMP assistant commissioner Mike McDonell.

"If I can put this in context for you, the 1995 bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people was completed with only one tonne of ammonium nitrate."

"This group posed a real and serious threat," he added. "It had the capacity and intent to carry out these acts."

Suspects appear in court

Fifteen of the 17 suspects appeared in a Brampton, Ont. court today, their hands and feet shackled together. Some family members dodged questions from reporters, but the father of one of the accused told the media he was stunned by the developments.

"I'm shocked. It's crazy. It's just crazy. It has no meaning whatsoever," said Mohammed Abdelhaleen, father of accused 30-year-old Shareef Abdelhaleen.

Imam Aly Hindy, from the Salaheddin Islamic Centre near Toronto, claimed security agencies constantly monitor the centre's mosque and Muslims were being falsely accused.

"It's not terrorism. It could be some criminal activity with a few guys, that's all," Hindy told The Canadian Press.

Defence lawyer Rocco Galati is representing two of the accused, one of whom was born in Canada and is a graduate of the medical sciences program at McMaster University in Hamilton. The other arrived here when he was 10 years old.

"My clients come from very respectful, long-standing residents of Canada, all Canadian citizens," Galati told reporters. "Both of their families are very well-established professionals, well-established families, (with) no criminal past whatsoever."

The Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN) issued a release praising police efforts to combat terrorism.

"As Canadian Muslims we unequivocally condemn terrorism in all of its forms. Canada is our home and we are deeply concerned about the safety of our country," said CAIR-CAN executive director Karl Nickner.

With a report from The Canadian Press

Archer
05 Jun 06,, 19:08
Couldent have said it better :frown:

We have known Islamic terrorist cells all over. God knows how many dirty bombs they have smuggled across the Mexican border ....

Has any US official said that this is a possible threat, publically?

Canmoore
05 Jun 06,, 20:03
So far the intended targets which have been released were the:

CN tower, TSX stock echange tower, CSIS head office tower, as well as the Parliament buildings and Peace Tower in Ottawa.

I am glad to see that our system works, and i am glad to see that the Mounties and CSIS can work side by side. I know that in the past the two forces havnt been very fond of each other.

Jay
05 Jun 06,, 20:07
6 face explosives charges in alleged plot
Last Updated Mon, 05 Jun 2006 14:37:48 EDT
CBC News

Six of 17 suspects arrested over the weekend in connection with an alleged plot to bomb Ontario targets have been charged with planning to cause a deadly explosion.

The charges, released Monday morning, reveal that Fahim Ahmad, Zakaria Amara, Asad Ansari, Shareef Abdelhaleen, Qayyum Abdul Jamal and Saad Khalid have been accused of the most serious charges in the alleged plot.

If convicted, they face sentences of life in prison.

All of the suspects have been charged with offences under the Anti-terrorism Act, which was passed by Parliament months after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the U.S.

Twelve of the men have been charged with knowingly participating, directly or indirectly, in the activity of a terrorist group.

Those charges relate to activities in Mississauga, Ont., Toronto and the Township of Ramara, which is located about 150 kilometres north of Toronto.

Three of the suspects have been charged with importing firearms and prohibited ammunition, and supplying prohibited weapons.

Ten of the men are charged with engaging in terrorism-related training. Residents in Ramara reported hearing gunshots from an area where men were seen dressed in camouflage gear.

All 17 of the accused will appear in court Tuesday for a bail hearing.

Focus on Qayyum Abdul Jamal

Jamal, 43, is a member of the Al-Rhman Islamic Centre in Mississauga who reportedly has made fiery speeches and holds extreme views about Islam.

He is believed to have been a mentor for the young people who were arrested in the investigation.

Tarek Fatah, a spokesman for the Muslim Canadian Congress, said Jamal was part of a mosque that originally belonged to a group of moderate Muslims but "was taken over."

Imam Qamrul Khanson told the Associated Press the language of Jamal's Friday night prayers had a more strident tone than other prayer leaders', but there was never any talk of terrorism or violence.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/05/plot-suspects.html
----------------------------------------------------

And there was this Pakistani origin muslim guy, some islamic leader, who wanted to change Canada's foreign policy coz "people" are fed up with Canadian involvement in Afghnistan and its really a bad thing to join forces with USA and UK.

I wonder why no one broke his jaw when he was in that program, fukin bastard! :mad:

Confed999
05 Jun 06,, 20:08
Has any US official said that this is a possible threat, publically?
It always has been a possible threat.

Officer of Engineers
05 Jun 06,, 20:09
Now, how many Canadians are lining up to admit that the Americans were right, that Canada is a haven for terrorism.

Canmoore
05 Jun 06,, 20:13
Now, how many Canadians are lining up to admit that the Americans were right, that Canada is a haven for terrorism.

not me..i would put money down that there are probably more terrorists, or terrorist wannabees in the states right now, than in Canada.

This take down, tells me that our system is working. The authorities have said that they have been following these guys for about 7months. How many other people are they watching, just waiting for them to do something that would warrent a similar take down?

Officer of Engineers
05 Jun 06,, 20:18
Like hell it's working. 25 people. That's a big effort. On par with 11 September and just as big. You want to see how bad? Just hop on an OC Transpo on Thurs when the GGFG, 33FES, and the Camerons are going to parade. Young lads in battle dress with big kits ... and no one takes a 2nd look.

Confed999
05 Jun 06,, 20:19
or terrorist wannabees in the states right now, than in Canada.
Immaterial...

This take down, tells me that our system is working.
Then you're dead...

Canmoore
05 Jun 06,, 20:24
Seeing as there is no proof of any of the 911 terrorists coming from Canada, and that there has been no Terrorist attack on American, or canadian soil since 911 and any terrorists who have tried to commit one have been caught.

I know that it may seem naive to state that it is working. But i really feel it is. I have faith in the mounties and CSIS, if our system wasnt working then these guys would not have been caught.

Is there room for improvement? yes, but to say that Canada is a haven of terrorists, is an attack on all innocent muslims just looking to start a new and better life in Canada. Are there terrorists in Canada? probably yes, but i have faith that they will be caught before any attack can happen.

Just as all would be attackers in the states have been caught, and no attack has happened sice 911

Officer of Engineers
05 Jun 06,, 20:30
Lad,

Do you know what happenned? These guys trained in Canada.

Gavrilo Princip
06 Jun 06,, 03:57
Lad,

Do you know what happenned? These guys trained in Canada.

Yes, lord knows that Canadian-trained individuals scarcely achieve much.

************************************************** ********

So is ammonium nitrate fertilizer a controlled substance? If it isn't yet, it really ought to be.

Gavrilo Princip
06 Jun 06,, 04:07
So far the intended targets which have been released were the:

CN tower,

wrooong!! :biggrin:

"Sources discounted earlier reports that the CN Tower and the city's subway system were allegedly potential targets by the group." -ctv.ca

What makes me certain no catastrophic attack would happen within Canada is knowing that its rural population would enjoy all too much their conversations about being targeted by terrorists; God would never allow them the satisfaction.

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 04:28
Yes, lord knows that Canadian-trained individuals scarcely achieve much.

Sarcasm does not lighten up the situation.


So is ammonium nitrate fertilizer a controlled substance? If it isn't yet, it really ought to be.

In quantity it is

TopHatter
06 Jun 06,, 04:28
Yes, lord knows that Canadian-trained individuals scarcely achieve much.
I happen to know of one in particular that has accomplished a lot.

He's raising a daughter at the moment. :biggrin:

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 04:30
All I have to do is to turn on the TV at 11:00 hours on the 11th Day of the 11th Month every year.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 04:34
No the CN tower was an intended target. Every News program i have been watching is saying that the CN tower was on that list, i have not yet heard that it wasnt on the list.

I know that the TTC was not on the target list, however the CN tower WAS on that list. Along with the CSIS building, TSX building, and the parliament buildings including the Peace Tower.

Parihaka
06 Jun 06,, 04:44
So is ammonium nitrate fertilizer a controlled substance? If it isn't yet, it really ought to be.
It's extremely difficult to control because of the vast quantities needed for agriculture, hence it's attraction for bombers

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 04:46
It's extremely difficult to control because of the vast quantities needed for agriculture, hence it's attraction for bombers

I believe it is illegal to sell in Canada. However, they can get it abroad, and smuggle it in.

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 04:55
wrooong!! :biggrin:

"Sources discounted earlier reports that the CN Tower and the city's subway system were allegedly potential targets by the group." -ctv.ca

What makes me certain no catastrophic attack would happen within Canada is knowing that its rural population would enjoy all too much their conversations about being targeted by terrorists; God would never allow them the satisfaction.
An apologist already.

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 04:57
I believe it is illegal to sell in Canada. However, they can get it abroad, and smuggle it in.
No, it's not illegal. Just go to your garden store. However, to get it in quantity that you need to make it effective - that's another story. The only people who can get such quantities are farmers with the appropriate permits.

Confed999
06 Jun 06,, 04:59
I believe it is illegal to sell in Canada. However, they can get it abroad, and smuggle it in.
There is no way they do not use ammonium nitrate on farms in Canada.

Parihaka
06 Jun 06,, 05:00
No, it's not illegal. Just go to your garden store. However, to get it in quantity that you need to make it effective - that's another story. The only people who can get such quantities are farmers with the appropriate permits.
exactly. My 5th-form Chemistry Master took great pleasure in showing us just how easy this process is....
And the wide range of ingredients you could use.
Considering our general dislike of our school, you would have thought he would be more circumspect :rolleyes:

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 05:04
Oh ok, i was watching a program the other day, and i swear i heard that the sale of Ammonium nitrate has been banned.

Ive been googling it, and aparantly the sale of large quantaties of the fertilizer is supposed to be difficult, and sales are to be recorded.

however 3 tonnes of it, must have been obtained from a chemical plant that makes the stuff.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 05:05
There is no way they do not use ammonium nitrate on farms in Canada.

:tongue: farming? whats that? how do you farm tundra??

Confed999
06 Jun 06,, 05:08
exactly. My 5th-form Chemistry Master took great pleasure in showing us just how easy this process is....
And the wide range of ingredients you could use.
Grandpa showed us. Used to blow stumps, and moles, out of the ground. :)

Parihaka
06 Jun 06,, 05:12
Grandpa showed us. Used to blow stumps, and moles, out of the ground. :)
LOL, I have this vision of singed moles propelled violently from their burrows with Grandpa and the kids laughing manically :biggrin:

ZFBoxcar
06 Jun 06,, 05:14
however 3 tonnes of it, must have been obtained from a chemical plant that makes the stuff.

No, it was obtained from the RCMP because it was a sting operation, I believe.

Blademaster
06 Jun 06,, 06:18
All I have to do is to turn on the TV at 11:00 hours on the 11th Day of the 11th Month every year.

Let me guess. It is either your daughter's birthday or your wedding anniversary.

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 06:21
Remembrance Day

Confed999
06 Jun 06,, 17:25
LOL, I have this vision of singed moles propelled violently from their burrows with Grandpa and the kids laughing manically :biggrin:
Yeah, but grandpa used to laugh like Santa, and it was more like bits of mole. ;)

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 17:27
:tongue: farming? whats that? how do you farm tundra??
You were in Pet and you've don't know about farming?

Archer
06 Jun 06,, 18:08
Seeing as there is no proof of any of the 911 terrorists coming from Canada, and that there has been no Terrorist attack on American, or canadian soil since 911 and any terrorists who have tried to commit one have been caught.

I know that it may seem naive to state that it is working. But i really feel it is. I have faith in the mounties and CSIS, if our system wasnt working then these guys would not have been caught.
Is there room for improvement? yes, but to say that Canada is a haven of terrorists, is an attack on all innocent muslims just looking to start a new and better life in Canada. Are there terrorists in Canada? probably yes, but i have faith that they will be caught before any attack can happen.
Just as all would be attackers in the states have been caught, and no attack has happened sice 911

Please wake up. The west has done the one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter thing for long, and act before the chickens come home to roost, as they did in London.

Hari_Om
06 Jun 06,, 18:18
The Chickens have already roosted.

Remember Air India Flight 182 "Kanishka".

329 died in that terrorist attack.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 18:30
Please wake up. The west has done the one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter thing for long, and act before the chickens come home to roost, as they did in London.

If i understand your post correctly, you are saying that Canada should act before something bad happens.

Well correct me if i am wrong, but had this attack occured. It would have been Canada's "9/11", it would have been Canada's "london bombings", it would have been Canada's "Madrid Bombings"..

But it didnt happen, we stopped them before it did happen.

So in a way, yes, the system is working.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 18:32
The Chickens have already roosted.

Remember Air India Flight 182 "Kanishka".

329 died in that terrorist attack.

Before 9/11, that was the largest terrorist attack in hisory.

However, thanks to Canadian Justice, the two suspects got off scotch free, and the Libs refused to allow an Independant investigation.

Confed999
06 Jun 06,, 18:33
the system is working.
No matter how well it works, you can't stop them all...

Confed999
06 Jun 06,, 18:34
Please wake up. The west has done the one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter thing for long, and act
Change "west" to "world" and I'm with you...

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 18:36
No matter how well it works, you can't stop them all...

yeah, terrorists are like bugs...squash a bunch, and they just keep on coming.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 18:48
"One of the suspects in an alleged bomb plot in Ontario is accused of wanting to storm Parliament, behead the prime minister and attack a number of sites, including the CBC building in Toronto, his lawyer says."

article here (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/06/suspects-hearing.html)

...wow

Hari_Om
06 Jun 06,, 19:07
Before 9/11, that was the largest terrorist attack in hisory.

I thank you for your remembrance.

Yes the largest terrorist attack prior to 9/11.

But how many know that here on WAB?

Too often it is completely forgotten how many India has lost to terrorism including the current bugbear of the world, Islamic terrorism and I will add Islamic terrorism with a Pakistani dimension.

I am more than willing to back up the comment of "Islamic terrorism with a Pakistani dimension" with instances, non Indian if required. Send me a PM to remind me.


However, thanks to Canadian Justice, the two suspects got off scotch free, and the Libs refused to allow an Independant investigation.

I will not judge the Canadian Justice system so harshly. Canada gave it its best shot. If there was a fault it was elsewhere in the Canadian System.

Hari_Om
06 Jun 06,, 19:10
In other news, related to this hread, at least two of the arrested would be terrorists in this Ammonium Nitrate case are confirmed as being Pakistani origin individuals :

Saad Khalid : (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060605/terror_suspects_060605/20060605/)


Khalid, who moved to Canada from Pakistan when he was 8,

And Qayyum Abdul Jamal:: (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149460818261&call_pageid=970599119419)


An immigrant from Karachi, Pakistan, Jamal is married to a Canadian woman who converted to Islam and has four sons.

I cannot say I am surprised.

I will not be surprised if more of the would be terrorists are either Pakistani origin or have some link or the other with Pakistan ;) .

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 19:15
So in a way, yes, the system is working.

We caught them. That's the good news. They know where they went wrong. That's the bad news.

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 19:17
But how many know that here on WAB?

You're joking me, right? You're asking that question in my corner? And I mean me individually.


I will not judge the Canadian Justice system so harshly. Canada gave it its best shot. If there was a fault it was elsewhere in the Canadian System.

I would.

canoe
06 Jun 06,, 19:41
Canada needs to revisit its laws in regards to religion. Any religion that encourages hate or violence should be banned.

Before I get all the Bill of Rights stuff thrown at me, I'm not suggesting banning Islam, I'm suggesting banning the variations of it that encourage violence or radicalism. The same can be said for any religion that follows the path of teaching violence or hate.

Due to current issues and present day problems, Islam in general needs to look at why so many of their followers find suicidal attacks so appealing.

Hari_Om
06 Jun 06,, 19:59
You're joking me, right? You're asking that question in my corner? And I mean me individually.

As you used the words “my corner” and there is on WAB a “Colonels Corner” on which you are a Moderator, may I ask if the above question is in your official capacity of a Moderator or not?

I might add my check of the Moderators on the “Western Hemisphere Defence Topics” does not list you as a Moderator on this particular sub board I am now posting on.

Such being the case, pending above clarification sought, I will take a time out for answering your question if at all.

I trust that is not the wrong way to go about things.

As they say when one is confused if the question is with Administrator hat on or off, best pause and ask.



I would.

On the second comment I would like to learn if you are willing to share.

Archer
06 Jun 06,, 20:23
Change "west" to "world" and I'm with you...

Unfortunately, the liberal laws and general attitude in the west have allowed immigrants to use their "new homes" as launchpads for terror. This has included Paks supporting terror orgs in Indian J&K, from the UK, Canada, the US, the Khalistani Sikhs who keep trying to revive terror in Indian punjab when Indian sikhs couldnt care less about the whole fracas- from Canada and the US (and they get away with practically anything, Kanishka bombing for instance, how many were convicted?), you have assorted Arabs supporting the Palestinians, even Islamists operating in Egypt, Algeria. You have the fricking NSCN-IM (a Naga baptist terror org) with its headquarters in Netherlands, getting funds on religious grounds from the US...

Unfortunately, the west needs to be much stronger. Part of the problem is that the losers who run from their countries use the excuse to continue their private wars, using the usual "I was abused" excuse...going through a cursory search of the South Asian departments in many US colleges brings out a whole bunch of communist supporting (read Maoists), tenured professors who fricking left their country decades back, but havent given up on their own private wars, and they survive, nay flourish in the west.

You know the conversion rate now? 1 $ =~ 40-50 Indian Rs.
You can factor in the effect these damn remittances have from "freedom conferences" attended by well heeled expats who donate liberally for creating mayhem back in the countries they are not living in. These idiots also lobby local politicians to conduct their own private jihad in the elected assemblies against the countries of origin.

The most ardent supporters of Khalistan and powerful- in the US & Canada, the moneybags behind the LTTE, Canada & Europe, especially the Scandinavian countries. Islamist guerilla groups- all over the fricking place in the west, now after 9/11, things have changed- before that, ask me- I know of people who were approached in public transportation, shown pictures of mutilated security force corpses in J&K and Islamic literature, and asked for donations. Openly. I know of people who had the c*rap beaten out of them when they spoke up against turds who were using the local gurudwara for collecting funds to support the "warriors of the faith", when they went to the cops, they were told to not be provocative and let things be.

The "world" is meaningless in this context, given the disproportionate influence the west has to influence and support such movements, monetarily, "idealogically" (via all the drummed up support in the academia) and politically (when fu*cks like Dan Burton use the political power to push for supporting terror).

Are all these guys now discredited? Have all their activities- whether LTTE or Khalistani been shut down? Hardly.

Any f*cker who uses his position in the western civil society to support terrorism or has links to such movements elsewhere, should be asked to take his agenda elsewhere, not mollycoddled and told that its A-OK, now he is "safe".

Archer
06 Jun 06,, 20:29
As you used the words “my corner” and there is on WAB a “Colonels Corner” on which you are a Moderator, may I ask if the above question is in your official capacity of a Moderator or not?

I might add my check of the Moderators on the “Western Hemisphere Defence Topics” does not list you as a Moderator on this particular sub board I am now posting on.

Such being the case, pending above clarification sought, I will take a time out for answering your question if at all.

I trust that is not the wrong way to go about things.

As they say when one is confused if the question is with Administrator hat on or off, best pause and ask.


On the second comment I would like to learn if you are willing to share.


The Colonel, if I may say so, meant that he for one knows the answer to your rhetorical question, about how much "India has lost due to terrorism" by saying that he knows.

Dont worry, he was not mad at you..

(At least thats how I interpreted the statement)

Officer of Engineers
06 Jun 06,, 21:20
As they say when one is confused if the question is with Administrator hat on or off, best pause and ask.

It was not an admin question. You asked a question "in my house" (how many people in WAB knows) whether I knew where the stink was coming from. I know. You should read enough of my posts to know that I know full well the crap that happens in Canada.


On the second comment I would like to learn if you are willing to share.

It was a screw up left, right, and centre. I personally feel that no one really cared and that it was India's problem. The courts gave way too much lattitude towards the defendents and what evidence India has gathered was deemed inadmissable because it was not gathered by the RCMP and what little the RCMP gathered was deemed illegal because proper procedures were not followed. No one cared enough to do a proper job and everybody blamed everybody else.

Canmoore
06 Jun 06,, 23:32
It was a screw up left, right, and centre. I personally feel that no one really cared and that it was India's problem. The courts gave way too much lattitude towards the defendents and what evidence India has gathered was deemed inadmissable because it was not gathered by the RCMP and what little the RCMP gathered was deemed illegal because proper procedures were not followed. No one cared enough to do a proper job and everybody blamed everybody else.

Yeah, if that plane was filled with White Caucasians, and not Indians, then i would be willing to bet my left nut that justice would have been served back in the the 80's, not 20 some odd years later.

Archer
07 Jun 06,, 00:17
Yeah, if that plane was filled with White Caucasians, and not Indians, then i would be willing to bet my left nut that justice would have been served back in the the 80's, not 20 some odd years later.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, I must point out that justice has still not been done, and Canada remains a den of Khalistani extremists who openly solicit money, claim terrorists as martyrs and continue to seek the opening of hostilities in India. Nor were the ties between those who bombed the aircraft, their support network, ever properly investigated.

Canmoore
07 Jun 06,, 02:27
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, I must point out that justice has still not been done, and Canada remains a den of Khalistani extremists who openly solicit money, claim terrorists as martyrs and continue to seek the opening of hostilities in India. Nor were the ties between those who bombed the aircraft, their support network, ever properly investigated.

whats that saying?

..oh yeah, Only in Canada!

ZFBoxcar
07 Jun 06,, 05:14
CanWest News Service
Published: Tuesday, June 06, 2006
BRAMPTON, Ont — A 25-year-old restaurant worker is accused of planning to storm Parliament Hill, behead Prime Minister Stephen Harper, take hostages and behead them unless the group’s demands were met, accoridng to his lawyer.

Gary Batasar, the lawyer for Steven Chand (also known by his Muslim name Abdul Shakur), emerged from court Tuesday saying Crown prosecutors had provided him with an eight-page "summary" of the charges against his client and 16 other men arrested last week.

"My client is being accused of plotting to storm the Parliament buildings, take hostages (and) make demands to remove Canadian troops from Afghanistan and to free Muslim prisoners," Batasar said outside the Brampton, Ont. courthouse.

"He is supposed to have planned to behead hostages if his demands weren’t met ... and to want to behead the prime minister. The last thing was that they were going to storm the CBC building downtown (in Toronto) to take over communications to broadcast their message."

Chand is one of 17 men, all Muslims, who were arrested Friday and charged with planning a terrorist attack. Police said the men were planning to build a simple but effective bomb using fertilizer and diesel fuel.

Sources said the men were in an advanced stage of planning two attacks: a truck bombing to destroy a significant building and an attack involving opening fire on a crowded public place.

Fifteen of the accused, including five young offenders, appeared in court Tuesday under tight security for an initial hearing and to set dates for bail hearings.

Batasar would not comment on whether his client denies the accusations, but said: "Mr. Chand is certainly quite perturbed by these allegations."
In Ottawa, Harper brushed off the alleged death threats with a joke as he exited the House of Commons following the question period.
"I can live with all these threats as long as they don't come from my caucus," he told reporters.

At Tuesday’s hearing, the accused shuffled into the crowded courtroom in three separate groups, handcuffed together and wearing white T-shirts and grey sweatpants. Friends and family of the men filled almost all of the available seats, with about 15 reporters lining the back rows of the court.

The men listened while their lawyers argued over their clients’ treatment since they were jailed last Friday night, the inadequacy of Crown disclosure of evidence and their clients’ inability to meet with their lawyers or family members.

Asad Ansari, 21, Fahim Ahmad, 21, Zakaria Amara, 20, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, and Jahmaal James, 23, are to return to court June 12 for bail hearings, along with three of the young offenders, who cannot be identified.

Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, will return on July 4 for a bail hearing. One of the youths will also have a bail hearing on June 16 and Saad Khalid, 19, is to be back in court on June 30.

"What we have received today is such bare bones, so little, that it's virtually impossible to comment on the authenticity of the synopsis that has been provided to us," said Arif Raza, the lawyer for Khalid.

He said his 19-year-old client is accused of attending a training camp in Ontario and was arrested at the time of the delivery of the tonnes of ammonium nitrate, which police had intercepted and replaced with an inert substance.

Donald McLeod, lawyer for Jahmaal James, said defence lawyers have complained their clients were being held in segregation, under 24-hour supervision and were not allowed to use the telephone or to speak to their family members.

He also complained of restrictions in his access to his client, including only being allowed to speak to him through a Plexiglas shield and then only with guards present. He added that the accused are being refused their religious rights.

"They're Muslim," McLeod said. "Clearly they'd like to be able to pray as a group. I'd like to facilitate that religious freedom they're entitled to."
Anser Farooq, who is representing a number of the accused men, questioned whether his clients would receive a fair trial, given the extensive media attention the case has drawn.

"My clients are entitled to a fair trial ... and to be treated the same way as anyone else who has been accused of an offence," he said. "They are presumed innocent — they are innocent until they are proven guilty in court."

© CanWest News Service 2006

leib10
07 Jun 06,, 05:28
Oh yes, like he can just march right in and take the PM hostage... :rolleyes:

ZFBoxcar
07 Jun 06,, 05:41
Yeah it is retarded. The question is whether it is the guy being accused that is retarded or his accusers for coming up with that.

Officer of Engineers
07 Jun 06,, 05:45
Has it become apparent yet that we've caught a bunch of amateurs?

Confed999
07 Jun 06,, 05:54
Has it become apparent yet that we've caught a bunch of amateurs?
Aren't most terrorists?

Parihaka
07 Jun 06,, 05:55
Has it become apparent yet that we've caught a bunch of amateurs?
How much creedence do you give to the 'training camp in Ontario' bit?

Officer of Engineers
07 Jun 06,, 06:00
How much creedence do you give to the 'training camp in Ontario' bit?
Amateurs


HOMEGROWN Terrorism: Automatic gunfire aroused suspicions
Strangers came in camouflage clothing

Mon Jun 5 2006

By Chris Wattie
WASHAGO, Ont. -- It was the bursts of automatic gunfire that made the farmer in this tiny central Ontario tourist community think something was amiss as he fed his animals after dark.

"I feed my animals at night," the farmer said yesterday. "So I'd be outside late at night and I'd heard the gunfire from over there, automatic gunfire. I'd hear rat-a-tat-a-tat-a-tat.

"I just knew there was something wrong about them. It was obvious they were doing some kind of military training."

The sounds of war were coming from what police now describe as a terrorist training camp on an isolated property just outside Washago, about 150 kilometres north of Toronto.

Late last year, residents began noticing groups of as many as a dozen men, dressed in camouflage clothing, drifting into town. The strangers drove up from Toronto in three or four vehicles at a time. They would converge at the property, staying for a week at a time, sometimes longer.

"They were out there almost every other week," said one neighbour, who like all of the local residents willing to speak with the National Post yesterday, was too frightened to give their names. "I would see like eight of them at a time usually, sometimes as many as a dozen.
"They were all wearing camouflage gear and carrying big bags of equipment, coming and going at all times of the day or night."

The newcomers quickly drew suspicious stares in this small, closely knit rural community on the edge of Ontario's cottage country.

"You weren't going to tell me these guys were cottagers or even hunters for goodness sake," said one woman who lived down a quiet country lane from the group's makeshift training camp.

"It was kind of hard to miss them," she added.

The men were using property that belonged to a local described as "a bit of a hermit," a rocky section of land covered with stands of poplar and red pine, overgrown pasture and swamp.

They would drive down a long dirt lane, through a gate marked No Hunting Or Trespassing and set up tents, obstacle courses and firing ranges throughout the sprawling property.

There is little sign now of what police allege was a training camp for a group of Toronto-area men charged on the weekend with plotting terrorist attacks in southern Ontario.

All that remains is a derelict building with its roof partially collapsed and a missing front door, which may have been the door shown by police at a Saturday RCMP news conference to announce the arrests. Police believe the door, riddled with bullet holes, may have been used for target practice.
It is believed the building was used as a makeshift headquarters for the training, which began late last fall and continued until last weekend.

Local residents said there were increasingly alarming signs that something illegal was happening at the property.

Finally, late last December, one neighbour decided he had had enough and called police.

"You can tell when someone's suspicious," the man said. "They were up to no good, that's for sure."

Police quickly honed in on the camp, setting up surveillance cameras in nearby rural mailboxes and in barns overlooking the entrance to the property.

"The police were all over these guys," said the farmer. "They had cameras all over the place, taking pictures of everyone coming and going from there, and helicopters flying over almost every day."

One resident said the men gave a thin cover story to explain their activities.

"They told (the property owner), they were doing extreme camping, whatever that's supposed to mean," the man said. "Pretty extreme camping if you ask me."

-- CanWest News Service

And to just top it all of that these idiots don't know what they were facing


JTF-2 commandos were ready to swoop
Near 'training camp'

Chris Wattie
National Post

Tuesday, June 06, 2006

The commandos of Joint Task Force-2, the Canadian army's elite special forces unit, were put on standby just a few minutes' flight away from where suspected terrorists were conducting "training camps" at an isolated site north of Toronto, sources have told the National Post.

About 25 members of the JTF-2's counterterrorism unit were at a nearby military base with their helicopters, ready to swoop down should police decide they were needed, said a military source speaking on condition of anonymity.

"They were within a few minutes' flying time of this training camp," said the source, who was familiar with JTF-2 operations. "Basically they were on standby in case things got out of hand and the police couldn't handle it."

Police arrested 12 adults and five youths on Friday under the federal Anti-terrorism Act for allegedly plotting to bomb targets in Southern Ontario.

The 17 who were arrested on the weekend are to appear in court today for a bail hearing on a variety of charges, including knowingly participating in a terrorist group and either receiving or providing terrorist training.

The National Post has located an isolated rural property just outside the small town of Washago, 150 kilometres north of Toronto, that neighbours said was used as an assault training ground.

Residents reported seeing up to a dozen men dressed in camouflage coming and going from the wooded acreage and hearing automatic gunfire from the property last December and January.

Sources say that while the men were at the makeshift training camp police had the entire area under surveillance and were prepared for the worst, including keeping the commandos of JTF-2 nearby as a force of last resort. "They're the counterterrorism unit [of the Canadian Forces], so of course they'd be involved," said another officer familiar with the operation. "But their involvement was pretty minimal. There were, like, 400 cops in on this so they never got the call."

The soldiers, along with a pair of Griffin helicopters of 427 Special Operations Aviation Squadron from Petawawa, were kept on alert at CFB Borden and CFB Meaford, the two nearest Canadian Forces bases, the source said.

Officials at the Department of National Defence would neither confirm nor deny JTF-2's involvement in the lengthy investigation into the alleged terror plot. "For reasons of operational security, National Defence does not discuss the activities of its special forces," spokesman Jay Paxton said yesterday.

Michelle Paradis, a spokeswoman for the RCMP, confirmed that the military was included in the task force handling the case, but would not give details on which units were involved or what role they played.

However, security experts said they would not be surprised that JTF-2 was involved in the case, if only on standby. "It makes sense that they would have them there," said John Thompson, the director of the Mackenzie Institute, a defence and security think-tank. "If there were some sort of siege or standoff, or if a police officer had been shot ... they're the ones who would've been called in."

Mr. Thompson said JTF-2 has filled a similar role in other potentially violent situations, such as the 1995 Gustafson Lake blockade, a standoff between native leaders and police. In the case of the alleged terrorist training camp, he said JTF-2 would likely only have been called in if things escalated well beyond the ability of police to deal with the situation.

"A couple of guys with assault rifles determined to martyr themselves could cause a lot of trouble, possibly even kill a few police officers," Mr. Thompson said. "[But] a JTF-2 assault would clear the mat in a matter of minutes ... without taking any friendly casualties. In a case like this they'd be like a 10-pound sledgehammer hitting a 10-penny nail."

Military spokesmen said there was no heightened state of alert for military personnel in the Toronto area as a result of the case, and no regular or reserve army units were involved.

In emergencies, civil authorities can request that Ottawa send in the Canadian Forces' Immediate Response Unit, up to 300 regular force soldiers based at CFB Petawawa in the Ottawa Valley.

In Toronto, there is also a Domestic Response Company, a unit of more than 100 part-time soldiers drawn from a number of army reserve regiments based in the city.
© National Post 2006

canoe
07 Jun 06,, 06:02
Aren't most terrorists?

Not at all, I bet there tons of experienced suicide bombers. ;)

Officer of Engineers
07 Jun 06,, 06:03
Aren't most terrorists?

Scarry thing is that I know that they can do alot better.

Parihaka
07 Jun 06,, 06:05
Amateurs

Agreed.

leib10
07 Jun 06,, 06:15
Aren't most terrorists?

Yep. Most are caught up in their beliefs and give little or no thought to practical training.

smilingassassin
07 Jun 06,, 07:42
You're joking me, right? You're asking that question in my corner? And I mean me individually.



I would.

Me too....

Hari_Om
07 Jun 06,, 19:00
It was not an admin question.

Thank you for the clarification.

Better safe than sorry.


You asked a question "in my house" (how many people in WAB knows) whether I knew where the stink was coming from. I know.

On the assumption that “the stink” is related to the parties I specifically named in my post (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showpost.php?p=230054&postcount=62), as the "current bugbear of the world", that is good to know. If I am in error please do correct me.


You should read enough of my posts to know that I know full well the crap that happens in Canada.

Let me say that I know full well that prior to challenging you on a matter Canadian, I will have to first very carefully do my homework. Else you will surely hand me my a*** in a sling.


It was a screw up left, right, and centre. I personally feel that no one really cared and that it was India's problem. The courts gave way too much lattitude towards the defendents and what evidence India has gathered was deemed inadmissable because it was not gathered by the RCMP and what little the RCMP gathered was deemed illegal because proper procedures were not followed. No one cared enough to do a proper job and everybody blamed everybody else.

On the Kanishka incident I will say that your candid observations are ones that I have not across before, particularly the point about evidence being ruled inadmissible / illegal. I know that all this happened a long time back but I would appreciate it if you could point specific instances on the evidentiary aspect you raised.

Officer of Engineers
07 Jun 06,, 19:34
Bob Rae's Report (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/airindia/pdf/rae-report.pdf)

Hari_Om
07 Jun 06,, 20:15
Thank you for that link which as a primary source is a jewel.

I have reading to do.

Hari_Om
07 Jun 06,, 20:17
Meanwhile over in the UK, that is Bradford, aka Bradfordabad :biggrin: , a “ man, who is of Pakistani origin, was detained by West Yorkshire Police officers last night.” :


Terror suspect quizzed over Canadian connection (http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/news/tibnews/display.var.786150.0.terror_suspect_quizzed_over_c anadian_connection.php)

By Saima Mir

Police stand guard outside a house in Hanover Square

A 21-year-old Bradford man arrested at Manchester Airport under anti-terror laws was today being questioned about possible connections with an alleged terror plot in Canada.

The arrested man, who is of Pakistani origin, was detained by West Yorkshire Police officers last night.

Last week, a total of 17 people were arrested by the Canadian authorities and charged with planning an "al Qaida-inspired" bombing campaign in the Toronto area.

It is understood police are examining possible links between the Bradford man and the Canadian arrests.

continued...
The arrest was followed by raids at two houses in Hanover Square, Manningham, and a house in Otley Road, Barkerend at about 9pm.

A police spokesman said the operation did not involve armed officers and the arrest was unconnected with the ongoing Metropolitan Police investigation at Forest Gate, London.

The suspect was being held under the Terrorism Act 2000, and has been returned, in custody, to West Yorkshire.

The blue door to number 27 Hanover Square, splintered from the force of the battering ram, was being guarded by uniformed police officers Neighbour Hasanul Maab, said an elderly woman lived in one of the properties and she was often visited by her sons, who live in the Bradford area.

He said the woman, with her son and his wife, were led away by police in last night's raid.

Mr Maab said: "A police van arrived and some police officers dashed out and started shouting.

"They used a ram to knock the door down and then they rushed inside shouting.

"They were in there for about an hour before they brought all three people out - two ladies and one young man. They then drove off in a police car."

Mr Maab said he had lived in the area for about 30 years and had not experienced anything like this before.

Mohamed Amir, lives a few doors away from 27 Hanover Square, and was at home when the raids happened.

He said: " There were about 20 police cars. There was a loud noise last night and we all came out on to the street "This is a very close community and everybody knows everybody else. Everybody is really shocked because nothing like this has ever happened here before."

Anwar Khan, 57, who has lived in street for 40 years, said it was a quiet neighbourhood, where children played in the street and residents kept their doors unlocked.

Mr Khan said: "Our doors are open and we have never had any bother."

He said the terror suspect had lived in the square all his life Dilnawaz Choudary, 33, said he had been shocked by the raids: "This is a very quiet area. "The residents support one another," he said.

"We are hoping our children did not see this because it is not something we want them to grow up seeing, and this is hard to forget," he added

Archer
08 Jun 06,, 01:18
Can anyone spell Pak.. wtf do a bunch of MEs care about Hindus anyhow?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060607.TERRORFAHIM07/TPStory/


How the police watched the plan unfold
Fahim Ahmad group's alleged 'emir'
COLIN FREEZE

TORONTO -- It's alleged that they called their project Operation Badr. And before its unravelling gripped the world's attention on the weekend, it made quieter noises that police say they picked up on: a seemingly inconsequential gun seizure at the Canada-U.S. border; a gunshot near Cochrane in Northern Ontario; bullets shattering statues of Hindu gods during a target practice (only Paks would indulge in this practice) in a remote area in the Township of Ramara, Ont.; and the printing of business cards with a decidedly non-threatening e-mail address, Studentfarmers@hotmail.com.

According to a copy of a Crown synopsis viewed yesterday by The Globe and Mail, police have months worth of surveillance, communication intercepts and physical evidence that were amassed before a monitored buy of $4,000 worth of ammonium nitrate fertilizer on Friday. This sting is said to be the final chapter of months of dogged police work, leading to the arrest of 17 suspects.

None of the evidence has been tested in court and all suspects are presumed innocent until proved guilty. Indeed, most of the suspects have minor roles in a plot that appears to have two ringleaders. Still, the eight-page Crown dossier is thick with allegations.

The upshot? The police and spies who caught wind of this were as meticulous as their targets were ambitious.

It has been called a made-in Canada plot against Canadian targets, but this is only half the story. It's alleged the group's emir, or leader, was Fahim Ahmad, and that he was in touch with shadowy terrorist figures in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Britain.

But the bulk of the action occurs entirely within Ontario.

Mr. Ahmad, who faces the most charges of any suspect, cuts a distinctive figure in the Crown dossier. He is accused of bearing the brunt of the responsibility for the gun-running, the training and the final phase of the operation, a series of ammonium-nitrate truck bombs to be exploded against Canadian targets.

According to Crown information, the group discussed many possible targets before settling on three main ones: an unspecified Canadian Forces base, the Toronto Stock Exchange and the downtown Toronto office of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

According to Aly Hindy of the Salaheddin Islamic Centre, Mr. Ahmad blamed constant spying by CSIS for forcing him into criminal activity.

In August, 2005, two young men were stopped at the Canada-U.S. border and searched. Authorities found three handguns, boxes of ammunition and even a bullet stashed in a sock.

The men, Mohammed Dirie and Yasim Mohamed, told authorities they bought the weapons from a drug addict in Columbus, Ohio, for "protection" from criminals. They were sentenced to two years each.

The smuggling incident was brought to the attention of the RCMP-led Integrated National Security Enforcement Team.

They noted that the car intercepted at the border was a rental. And, according to the Crown dossier, the credit card used to obtain the vehicle belonged to one Fahim Ahmad.

It was at that point that authorities began to regard the case as much, much more than a gun-smuggling incident.

Mr. Ahmad had such a radical, Internet-influenced approach to Islam that even Mr. Hindy regards him with suspicion.

According to Mr. Hindy, the young man told him of renting a car for a gun-smuggling operation. Mr. Hindy said he called some Toronto undercover police detectives he knew, and reported on Mr. Ahmad's alleged involvement.

Mr. Hindy was stunned to see the suspect keep returning to the mosque: Why hadn't police done anything?

But according to the Crown dossier seen by The Globe, police were doing a lot: They were watching Mr. Ahmad's communications, and came to believe he was talking to overseas figures with ties to international terrorism; they were trying to tie him to two Georgia-based terrorism suspects who had visited Toronto that spring; and they were keeping a close eye on the Toronto-area circles he moved in.

As the summer of 2005 turned to fall, it is alleged that Mr. Ahmed increasingly drew upon a fellow suspect, Zakaria Amara. According to the dossier, he sent him to Cochrane, Ont., to scout out a possible location for a training camp.

It is alleged that Mr. Amara was spotted approaching government offices in the far Northern Ontario community. Someone claims to have heard him fire off two shots with a shotgun.

Police allege he returned back to brief the emir on his travels. In the end, the location was not suitable. A community closer to Toronto was chosen.

It is alleged that the ringleaders had amassed a number of followers, including young men in their late teens. Police say they wanted to become jihadis.

Two guns may have been seized at the border, but the group had access to a 9 mm Luger, according to police. They also had an air rifle and a paintball gun. Strangely, by this time, CSIS had long since released a discussion paper under the Access to Information Act, indicating it was keeping tabs on young extremists playing paintball.

The training started on Dec. 18 and finished on Christmas Day, according to the Crown information. Sentries were posted around the Ramara camp 24/7. Police say the group shot at statues of Hindu gods for target practice. In quieter moments, it is alleged they reviewed jihadist videos and talked. They even had a course in confidence building, according to the Crown dossier.

According to the document, they had a name for their project: Operation Badr. A list of possible targets was overheard, according to the Crown synopsis.

The Parliament buildings are said to have came up. (hmmm. familiar idea, after all they've already done it once before) So did the Toronto headquarters of the CBC and RCMP headquarters in Ottawa. So, too, did the notion of taking politicians hostage. (One lawyer's assertion yesterday that his client stands accused of plotting to "behead" Prime Minister Stephen Harper was not seen in the document The Globe viewed yesterday.)

As the Canadian Forces mission in Afghanistan began to ramp up, the group talked of hitting a military base back home, the dossier states.

And then there was CSIS: Police say they picked up conversations targeting the spy service at its downtown Toronto offices or possibly its Ottawa headquarters.

In one conversation, police say they overheard concerns about whether the Toronto office was appropriate. One suspect allegedly said he didn't care whether the attack caused mass casualties on the street.

Police assert the attacks would be multiple, and simultaneous, for maximum effect. It is alleged the explosions were to be delivered by truck bombs.

But tensions began to arise within the group, according to the Crown dossier. It is alleged that Mr. Amara grew impatient that Mr. Ahmad was not moving fast enough.

Mr. Amara, who lived on the other side of the Toronto area, in Mississauga, is alleged to have joined forces with a charismatic figure at a local Islamic centre: Qayyum Jamal. With the help of the 43-year-old, Mr. Amara surrounded himself with a small group of young men and teenagers.

It is alleged that Mr. Amara was seen hatching plans to buy a detonator and researching bomb construction in public libraries. From the beginning, the bomb was said to be big: 1.5 tonnes of ammonium nitrate, according to police, mixed with several litres of nitric acid to get the explosion going.

Police monitor large purchases of such substances. But what if a lot of people make individual purchases? The Crown alleges a plot manifested itself with 200 business cards that would allow suspects to approach suppliers individually and acquire smaller batches. The Crown says the e-mail address had a memorable ring: Studentfarmers@hotmail.com.

Then there was a change of plan. The Crown alleges Mr. Amara brought in another Mississauga man, Shareef Abdelhaleem, to assist with buying thousands of dollars worth of fertilizer.

According to the Crown information, a police agent was on the opposite end of a payment of $2,000. After that point, the operatives are alleged to have rented a house and industrial storage unit.

There is a second payment recorded by Crown officials. It was for $4,000 and it took place on June, 2, 2006 -- the day of the arrests.

This entire thing reeks of Lashkar e Toiba.

Archer
08 Jun 06,, 01:22
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_PrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1149630611454&call_pageid=968256290204

Keep politics out of our mosques
Muslims cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over places of worship, says Tarek Fatah

Jun. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM

Three years ago when Kuwaiti Islamist scholar Tareq Al Suwaidian told a Toronto crowd that "Western civilization is rotten from within and nearing collapse ... it (the West) will continue to grow until an outside force hits it and you will be surprised at how quickly it falls," he was lustily cheered by the nearly 2,000 young Muslim men and women.
I was deeply offended by the hostile remark, but the thunderous approving applause of the young audience simply stunned me. All I could do was muster the courage and stage a polite walkout.

That day I resolved to fight this hostility toward the modern nation-state and Western civilization that was engulfing a section of Canadian Muslim youth; one that was being fanned by the leadership of the traditional Muslim organizations and Islamic radicals who took inspiration from the ruling elites of Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Last weekend's arrests and the alleged role of young Muslim men in a terror cell may not have been inspired by the fiery rhetoric of the visiting Kuwaiti scholar. But if the RCMP allegations are true, the actions of this group definitely have roots in the cult of hate and death that is glorified by a tiny segment of Muslim clerics.

While the overwhelming majority of Canada's Muslims have been stunned by this development, few can honestly deny that they had seen this coming.

For years, some of us have been incessantly talking and writing about the growth of this extremist phenomenon, this contempt for secular parliamentary democracy and non-stop berating of Muslim youth who become "Canadian" and warnings to them that they will be punished in the hereafter if they do not adhere to the barren version of Islam where joy itself is a sin.

In the last five years, we Muslims have had more than our share of terrorism done in the name of our faith. Whether it is terrorist attacks in India or the hundreds of simultaneous bombings in 300 cities of Bangladesh; whether it is massacres of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq or the genocide of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur, the traditional leadership of the Muslim community responds repeatedly in a similar manner: abject denial.

Every tragedy that has befallen the Muslim world has been labelled as an American or a Zionist conspiracy. The conspiracy stories have gone from the ridiculous to the absurd.

During my recent visit to Karachi to attend the World Social Forum, I was stunned to see banners strung across streets proclaiming boldly that the "Bird flu was a Jewish drama."

First I thought this was some dark Pakistani humour that I had forgotten to appreciate because I had left my birthplace 28 years ago. Upon asking around, I was told this was a widespread view: Israel was to blame for the bird flu because it was against the poultry industry of Indonesia.

What troubled me even more is the fact that the banner proclaiming this latest conspiracy was not displayed in some poor suburb of the city or outside a madrassah, but was hung in the posh, upper-class neighbourhood of Clifton.

I found another such banner draping the entrance to a grocery store, where the owner lectured me about how the tsunami of December 2004 was a result of a joint effort by the U.S. and Israel to drown and destroy Muslim nations.

Back in Canada, the conspiracy stories continue to fester and the latest crisis that confronts all of us has again provided fertile soil for conspiracy theorists.

On a live TVO Studio 2 debate on Monday, Toronto imam Ali Hindy clearly insinuated that the entire RCMP operation was being conducted to justify the continuing war in Iraq and Afghanistan.

He referred to the arrests as "show business" and stated the "show must go on."

During the discussion, Hindy claimed he knew eight of the accused. According to his analysis, the suspects may have been involved in military training to fight a jihad overseas. He went on to say that when young Muslim men come to him asking to go overseas to fight, he discourages them and tells them to fight their jihad "here."

Flabbergasted, host Paula Todd asked him, "Why? What do you mean?" Cornered, he took refuge — like so many Muslim clerics who encourage jihad, take when trapped — in philosophy: "By jihad I mean the inner jihad ..."

Monday night's discussion on TVO was also significant because it is only in non-Muslim institutions that Muslims can debate from adversarial positions.

There is not a single mosque in Canada where Muslims with opposing views can debate anything political, social or theological. The doors of debate are shut by the cement of orthodoxy. Only doublespeak and hypocrisy are allowed to flourish. As long as Muslims can find someone else to blame for our ills, the problem is seen as resolved.
I say, enough is enough. Muslims cannot go on behaving as if everything is normal. We cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over our mosques.

We cannot afford it any more because we risk losing a generation to the temptation of simple answers to life's challenges; a solution that states that life on Earth is meaningless because it is temporary and therefore not worthy of sustaining, not worthy of enjoying.

I urge Muslims to recognize that a mosque is not the places for politics, it is a place of worship. Imams who peddle politics need to be told to take their politics to the electorate and not to the pulpit.

Religion and politics is an incendiary mixture and invoking God on one's side in a political dispute is dishonest, callous and dangerous. Let us tell our imams to keep their politics to themselves and not to stain our religion by using the divine texts to score political points and promote terror.

It is ironic that Muslim extremists are portraying themselves as anti-imperialist when, in fact, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are nothing more than a creation of the CIA. Muslims need to recognize that the agenda of these extremists is a cult of hate and fascism, not one of advocacy for their community.


(My comment: LOL, that had to come in!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tarek Fatah is host of the weekly TV show, The Muslim Chronicle.

Confed999
08 Jun 06,, 01:44
Al Qaeda and the Taliban are nothing more than a creation of the CIA
LOL :)

Canmoore
08 Jun 06,, 03:07
There was an interview on CBC..

This guy they interviewd on the side of the street said:

"They hold a news conferance to reasure the Muslim community of Toronto that they should not have to fear attacks or vandalism in responce to the arrests.

Well were is the Conferance for the majority of the people, the non muslim population, to reasure us? why arnt WE being reasured?"

canoe
08 Jun 06,, 08:15
There was an interview on CBC..

This guy they interviewd on the side of the street said:

"They hold a news conferance to reasure the Muslim community of Toronto that they should not have to fear attacks or vandalism in responce to the arrests.

Well were is the Conferance for the majority of the people, the non muslim population, to reasure us? why arnt WE being reasured?"

Because all white Canadians of european desent are evil evil people who need to be put down or we'll take over.

canoe
08 Jun 06,, 08:17
Yeah, if that plane was filled with White Caucasians, and not Indians, then i would be willing to bet my left nut that justice would have been served back in the the 80's, not 20 some odd years later.

LOL, you really don't know Canada well. If your white your descriminated against left, right and center here by the government.

leib10
08 Jun 06,, 08:25
Sounds like my hometown... :frown:

lemontree
08 Jun 06,, 09:34
Amateurs

And to just top it all of that these idiots don't know what they were facing
You could be right sir. They may be a smoke screen or a lame attempt to cause an incident in Canada, without any leads to any other nation.

Canmoore
08 Jun 06,, 14:33
Well the fact that they are amateurs is quite obvious, i also heard that Storming the Parliament, beheadings, and other extreme acts were only ideas.

The group had settled on three targets, that would have been easier to attack and followthrough.

The TSX building in Toronto, The CSIS building in Toronto, and an un-named military base in Ontario.

Hari_Om
08 Jun 06,, 19:08
On the failed Toronto terrorist and related matters.

And no, I did not make up the title. :biggrin:

That was the Globe and Mail of Canada ;) :

THE TERROR RAIDS: THE PAKISTAN CONNECTION (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060608.TERRORUK08/TPStory/)

Major_Armstrong
03 Sep 06,, 18:37
General Hawley's Politically Incorrect Message:

General Hawley,is a newly retired USAF 4 star general. He commanded the
Air Combat Command [our front-line fighters and bombers] at Langley AFB, VA. He is now retired and no longer required to be politically correct. A true patriot.
"Since the attack [9-11], I have seen, heard, and read thoughts of such
surpassing stupidity that they must be addressed. You've heard them too.

Here they are:

1) "We're not good, they're not evil, everything is relative."

Listen carefully: We're good, they're evil, nothing is relative. Say it with me now and free yourselves. You see, folks, saying "We're good" doesn't mean, "We're perfect." Okay? The only perfect being is the bearded guy on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. The plain fact is that our country has, with all our mistakes and blunders, always been and always will be the greatest beacon of freedom, charity, opportunity, and affection in history. If you need proof, open all the borders on Earth and see what happens.

2) "Violence only leads to more violence."

This one is so stupid you usually have to be the president of an Ivy
League university to say it. Here's the truth, which you know in your heads and hearts already: Ineffective, unfocused violence leads to more violence. Limp, panicky, half measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully thought through, professional, well executed violence never leads to more violence because, you see, afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead. Not "on trial," not reeducated," not "nurtured back into the bosom of love." Dead.

3) "The CIA and the rest of our intelligence community have failed us."

For 25 years we have chained our spies like dogs to a stake in the
ground, and now that the house has been robbed, we yell at them for not
protecting us. Starting in the late seventies, under Carter appointee Stansfield Turner, the giant brains who get these giant ideas decided that the best way to gather international intelligence was to use spy satellites. "After all, (they reasoned,) you can see a license plate from 200 miles away." This is very helpful if you've been attacked by a license plate. Unfortunately, we were attacked by humans. Finding humans is not possible with satellites. You have to use other humans. When we bought all our satellites, we fired all our humans, and here's the really stupid part. It takes years, decades to infiltrate new humans into the worst places of the world. You can't just have a guy who looks like Gary Busey in a Spring Break '93 sweatshirt plop himself down in a coffee shop in Kabul and say "Hiya, boys. Gee, I sure would like to meet that bin Laden fella. "Well, you can, but all you'd be doing is giving the bad guys a story they'll be telling for years.

4) "These people are poor and helpless, and that's why they're angry at
us."

Uh-huh, and Jeffrey Dahmer's frozen head collection was just a desperate cry for help. The terrorists and their backers are richer than Elton John and, ironically, a good deal less annoying. The poor helpless people, you see, are the villagers they tortured and murdered to stay in power. Mohammed Atta, one of the evil scumbags who steered those planes into the killing grounds is the son of a Cairo surgeon. But you knew this, too. In the sixties and seventies, all the pinheads marching against the war were upper-middle-class college kids who grabbed any cause they could think of to get out of their final papers and spend more time drinking. It's the same today.

5) "Any profiling is racial profiling."

Who's killing us here, the Norwegians? Just days after the attack, the
New York Times had an article saying dozens of extended members of the
gazillionaire bin Laden family living in America were afraid of reprisals
and left in a huff, never to return to studying at Harvard and using too
much Drakkar. I'm crushed. Please come back. Let's all stop singing
"We Are the World" for a minute and think practically. I don't want to be
sitting on the floor in the back of a plane four seconds away from
hitting Mt.Rushmore and turn, grinning, to the guy next to me to say, "Well, at
least we didn't offend them."

SO HERE'S what I resolve for the New Year: Never to forget our murdered
brothers and sisters. Never to let the relativists get away with their
immoral thinking. After all, no matter what your daughter's political
science professor says, we didn't start this. Have you seen that bumper
sticker that says, "No More Hiroshimas"? I wish I had one that says, "No
More Pearl Harbors."

THIS NEEDS TO STAY IN CIRCULATION FOR THOSE WHO HAVE OR WILL FALL FOR THE
STUPIDITY GOING AROUND. PLEASE PASS IT ON!

"If you can read this, thank a teacher....
If you are reading it in English, thank a soldier."






http://www.apostatesofislam.com

http://www.faithfreedom.org

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/index.php

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/index.php

http://www.faithfreedom.org/holiday/phpBB2/index.php

http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/index.php


http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2829059.stm

http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1627

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/

http://www.atcoalition.net/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/pages/6-Mein%20Kampf_jpg_jpg_jpg.htm

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/moslem.htm

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

http://atheism.about.com/cs/islamandviolence/

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html

http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/jihad.html

http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.persecution.org

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9583

http://www.danielpipes.org/

http://www.angelfire.com/hi5/kafirdomunity/action.htm

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/BTaliban/Bangla_Taliban_Photos.html

http://www.bwoi.cjb.net

http://www.chechentruth.cjb.net/

http://www.anti-cair-net.org/

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/pages/1/index.htm

http://www.rotter.net/israel/

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/Islam.html

http://www.geocities.com/milkmandan2003/TalibanOnline1.html

http://www.truthtree.com/Debating/posts/755.html

http://www.isralert.com/archives/2005/03/deceit_thy_name.php

http://www.factsandlogic.org

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/zakirnaik/zakicaptured.gif

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/toc.html

http://www.venusproject.com/prophet_of_doom/quotes1.html#terrorism

http://www.pmw.org.il/



According to these links the Quran has been changed over time.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-koran-manuscripts.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter8/3.html

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/

http://www.jodkowski.pl/re/MBright.html

http://cremesti.com/amalid/Islam/Yemeni_Ancient_Koranic_Texts.htm

---------

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5197

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5237

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5258


"Modern Liberals, With Some Exceptions, Are Fascists. They Preach Peace At The Expense Of Liberty, Diversity At The Expense Of Common Sense, Equality At The Expense Of Fairness And Choice At The Expense Of Life. They Are The First To Speak About Rights, Yet They Seek To Deny You Yours If You Disagree With Them. They Vociferate The Importance Of Free Speech, Yet Do Everything In Their Power To Stifle Yours. They Demonize The Very System Which Allows Them The Freedom To Criticize In The First Place, And They Are The Last People In Line When It Comes To Defending The One Country On Earth That Would Ever Tolerate Their Hypocrisy. They Are Divisive, Immoral And Utterly Incapable Of Understanding Why Everything I Just Wrote Is The Truth." - Edward L. Daley



"Activism is a way for useless people to feel important, even if the consequences of their activism are counterproductive for those they claim to be helping and damaging to the fabric of society as a whole." - Thomas Sowell

“Some of the most vocal critics of the way things are being done are people who have done nothing themselves, and whose only contributions to society are their complaints and moral exhibitionism.” – Thomas Sowell

“A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money.” – G. Gordon Liddy

------------------


The book Islam and Terrorism by Mark Gabriel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0884198847/qid=1140213202/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5269966-1274325?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
http://tinyurl.com/fbtv7


Some pages from Mark Gabriel's book (need Adobe Acrobat Reader):


http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/Chapter4.pdf 206KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/Chapter5.pdf 124KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/DeceitChapter6.pdf 101KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf 100MB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf 88MB



(free ripway accounts allow a maximum of 10MB transfer per day. If links don't work, try back later)

Major_Armstrong
16 Sep 06,, 18:45
A good book that explains the motivation behind the terrorists.

The book Islam and Terrorism by Mark Gabriel:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0884198847/qid=1140213202/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5269966-1274325?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
http://tinyurl.com/fbtv7


Some pages from Mark Gabriel's book (need Adobe Acrobat Reader):


http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/Chapter4.pdf 206KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/Chapter5.pdf 124KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/DeceitChapter6.pdf 101KB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/MuslimPastorCh7.pdf 100MB

http://home.ripway.com/2005-6/328030/Mark%20Gabriel/3StagesJihadCh11.pdf 88MB



(free ripway accounts allow a maximum of 10MB transfer per day. If links don't work, try back later)

Bill
17 Sep 06,, 02:46
Awesome news.

gilgamesh
18 Sep 06,, 16:50
It was not an admin question. You asked a question "in my house" (how many people in WAB knows) whether I knew where the stink was coming from. I know. You should read enough of my posts to know that I know full well the crap that happens in Canada.



It was a screw up left, right, and centre. I personally feel that no one really cared and that it was India's problem. The courts gave way too much lattitude towards the defendents and what evidence India has gathered was deemed inadmissable because it was not gathered by the RCMP and what little the RCMP gathered was deemed illegal because proper procedures were not followed. No one cared enough to do a proper job and everybody blamed everybody else.

Sir, there's more to that case than turf wars between CSIS and RCMP. Some of the suspects have been capped by Indian police in India. Their movement to India was most likely monitored by Canadian intelligence and passed on to Indian police. One of them (Parmar I think) died in police custody.