American heritage

[Shek]

From whom does the US most draw its character and government from? Athens? Sparta? Rome? I've set the poll up so you aren't limited to only one city/empire.

[HistoricalDavid]

I take it this is confined exclusively to the classical world, otherwise I'm guessing Britain would feature, just a tad. :)

In terms of government, it obviously and quite explicitly (according to the founders) draws upon Roman republicanism rather than the democratic city-states of Greece.

"... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." - James Madison in Federalist #10

But in terms of philosophical tradition it's hard to beat Greece and the Big Three of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle, a maxim applicable throughout the West.

Since I believe politics to be the most important intellectual activity, my vote goes to Rome.

[TopHatter]

Voted Rome.

Not sure if that's Rome pre-Caesars or not.

[RustyBattleship]

I don't think any of those Mediterranean city-states fit. I think our character is drawn more from central and northern Europe using some of the Greek and Roman language structure as part of our language in order to give a greater variety of words along with Anglo-Saxon.

Our own Constitution is actually based upon British Common Law that literally outmoded the Roman emperor concept (keeping it only as a society of uppity-ups passing out knighthoods).

Trivia note: British Common Law was agreed to and signed by King John who became king when his adventurous brother Richard the Lion Heart died. Yup. The same guy while as Prince John chased Robin the Hood and his merry men in forest green camo.

[indianguy4u]

Where is Paris? Staute of Liberty ;) French gift for US.

[Parihaka]

I've got to vote Athens. I agree that the country functions politically on a Roman model, but the city-state model of ancient Greece I equate to the separate states of the Union.

[PubFather]

The city-state model of ancient Greece isnt really analogous to the state structure in the USA. The city states were fully independant and fought each other - I dont really see the parallel...

[RustyBattleship]

Where is Paris? Staute of Liberty ;) French gift for US.

Paris is in Southern California -- whoops, that's Perris, California where they have a great Railroad Museum. I'm not sure of the target coordinates of the one in France.

A short model of the Statue of Liberty AND a full size statue of Abraham Lincoln are in London, England near Trafalgar Square.

The full size Statue of Liberty is on Liberty Island in the mouth of the Hudson River in New York. One night the magician, David Copperfield, made the entire statue disappear.

Now you know why magicians always wear coats with long, large sleeves.

[Shek]

I don't think any of those Mediterranean city-states fit. I think our character is drawn more from central and northern Europe using some of the Greek and Roman language structure as part of our language in order to give a greater variety of words along with Anglo-Saxon.

Our own Constitution is actually based upon British Common Law that literally outmoded the Roman emperor concept (keeping it only as a society of uppity-ups passing out knighthoods).

Trivia note: British Common Law was agreed to and signed by King John who became king when his adventurous brother Richard the Lion Heart died. Yup. The same guy while as Prince John chased Robin the Hood and his merry men in forest green camo.

But the structure of the government defined by the Constitution can be traced back to Rome and for that matter, Sparta.

[Shek]

For our character, I would say that our inspiration is defined by the spirit of Athenian exceptionalism.

[Lunatock]

Paris is in Southern California -- whoops, that's Perris, California where they have a great Railroad Museum. I'm not sure of the target coordinates of the one in France.

It's called the city of lights. So factor in the greatest concentration of french waving white flags in the most well lit area.

[Trajan]

Using the Athenians as a template is dangerous. Their system of democracy, while admirable, was susceptible to demogogues. If one man could sway the majority into agreeing with him and vote to his ideas, that one man could control policies as well as exercise a type of dictatorship. I stab a finger at Pericles and Draco to point out examples.

At the very least the Roman Republic (less confusing to use this term as just saying Rome will mostly refer to the Imperial period) had a system of checks and balances which were the first and our own system was loosely based on this system.

A very long drawn out way of saying that I voted Roman.

[Parihaka]

You are infact an amalgum of the two. Your character is Athenian, your political bonds that unite you are Roman. While that unity is important, I regard your character as the more important long term, hence my vote for Athens. In evidence I would point to the strong assertion of libertarianism evident on this board and other boards of both right and left which I read. I believe that to be closer akin to Athenianism than the authoritarianism of the Romanesque.

[ArmchairGeneral]

You are infact an amalgum of the two. Your character is Athenian, your political bonds that unite you are Roman. While that unity is important, I regard your character as the more important long term, hence my vote for Athens. In evidence I would point to the strong assertion of libertarianism evident on this board and other boards of both right and left which I read. I believe that to be closer akin to Athenianism than the authoritarianism of the Romanesque.

That's odd. I was about to assert almost the exact opposite. That is, I think that our character, as a nation, is more closely related to that of the Roman farmer/soldier than the Athenian farmer/soldier. Kind of tough, practical, less of an idealist, but does have ideals. Although our system is explicitly based on the Roman system, e.g. the "Senate," the Romans were never exactly democratic, although they were edging towards it when the chaos began. On the other hand, although the Athenian system was very limited (was it something like 10-20% could actually vote?), the democratic ideals of the nations gov't/philosophers seems more in line with our nation's founding fathers' goals of true, but limited suffrage. As far as character goes, it seems like the Athenians, as people, were very different from Americans in their attitude. The disdain for hard work, the contempt for women, and the very stratified society, with a small number of citizens, plus women, plus lots of non-citizens and slaves just seems to not jive with the American style. Not that the Romans didn't have a stratified society, but the plebians did eventually get a say in the gov't, and they still were citizens, unlike the vast majority of people in Athens.

In other words, Rome had a lot of ordinary citizens, Athens didn't, Romans said they believed in some sort of democracy, the Athenians actually worked it out. Funny thing is, I think character is most important too, that's why I voted for Rome.

That said, when it comes down to it, I agree with RustyBattleship. Britain's gov't, legal system, and philosophers played a far large role than the Classics.

[deadkenny]

On balance I'll go with Rome, although Athens does figure into as well. Don't see much Spartan influence, Sparta would seem to be antithetical if anything.