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View Full Version : Alright people. Does this place really deserve its name???



Nemesis
25 May 06,, 14:05
This place is called "World Affairs Board" but every time I look at the New Posts link, all that's being talked about is military technology. What is this mess?

Monte
25 May 06,, 14:17
Maybe military technology controls the World (Affairs Board) :biggrin:

TopHatter
25 May 06,, 14:43
This place is called "World Affairs Board" but every time I look at the New Posts link, all that's being talked about is military technology. What is this mess?
Stick around, it all depends on whats on people's minds.

Either that, or start a World Affairs thread yourself!

The third option is obvious ;)

T-bone
25 May 06,, 14:59
I voted for "We used to have them, but now we take a pill for that". Tophatter said if I did not vote for it he would put his gun to my head.

Shek
25 May 06,, 15:01
This place is called "World Affairs Board" but every time I look at the New Posts link, all that's being talked about is military technology. What is this mess?

Last time I checked, wars and military affairs are inextricably intertwined with the history of the entire world, whether you look back to Ancient Greece or to modern times. Also, there was once a silly German that thought that war is just "the continuation of politics" and as such, one should actually figure out how to use this construct to develop strategy.

So, is your argument that the use of a particular military technology by an American in Iraq has zero bearing on world affairs? Or that the development of military technology by China for potential use against Taiwan or Japan or Korea has no bearing on current world affairs?

Given that we have members from around the globe (BTW, Chris, it'd be neat if a page like this could be added to WAB to improve its street cred for Nemesis and his ilk ;): http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/site/whovisits.htm) and discuss many of the same topics that you find coming out of the UN, I think that the title of the forum is quite appropriate.

Shek
25 May 06,, 15:05
Let's make this topic one for learning. What military technology has had the most impact on world affairs, and what other technologies have had a strong impact.

I'd vote for the nuclear weapon for the military technology that has had the most impact. It defined the Cold War, it's the main reason that we are in Iraq today and why there's a showdown with Iran as well. It's the start of a strategic relationship with India and the US. It's a major reason why the US holds strong interests in maintaining ties with Pakistan. I think that counterproliferation and it's interaction with counterterrorism will dominate the 2008 US Presidential election.

percentage_plyr
25 May 06,, 15:10
Stick around, it all depends on whats on people's minds.

Either that, or start a World Affairs thread yourself!

The third option is obvious ;)

lol...comeon....y dont u SPELL OUT the 3rd option for him! :biggrin: :eek: ;)

TopHatter
25 May 06,, 15:42
I voted for "We used to have them, but now we take a pill for that". Tophatter said if I did not vote for it he would put his gun to my head.
It's only a little .380 :rolleyes:


lol...comeon....y dont u SPELL OUT the 3rd option for him! :biggrin: :eek: ;) Two words: Plausible Deniability ;)

Captain Drunk
25 May 06,, 16:55
What is this mess?

Its an Officer's Mess for armed forces personnel, hence WAB synonymous with military jargon. :biggrin:

Well actually, wars gave boundaries to nations, military advancements gave rise to high speed travel and communication and the internet given generously to the world by the US military brought you here - a complete circle.

platinum786
25 May 06,, 17:42
I picked protest, seeing as how it's quite fashionable for muslims to protest nowadays..........lol

Nemesis
25 May 06,, 20:55
So, is your argument that the use of a particular military technology by an American in Iraq has zero bearing on world affairs? Or that the development of military technology by China for potential use against Taiwan or Japan or Korea has no bearing on current world affairs?
My argument is that 9/10 of the most active threads are how t0t4lly c00l this or that piece of military technology is.

It just seems like people here are alot more into how a war is fought than the principals for why a war is being fought.

Also, this forum seems to be disproportionately dominated the far right.

indianguy4u
25 May 06,, 21:03
how about butter cookies ;).

Shek
25 May 06,, 21:03
My argument is that 9/10 of the most active threads are how t0t4lly c00l this or that piece of military technology is.

It just seems like people here are alot more into how a war is fought than the principals for why a war is being fought.

Also, this forum seems to be disproportionately dominated the far right.

1. Build it and they will come. There's forums on military tech, and so there are threads on military tech. Also, I haven't done the total analysis, but I venture so far as to say that less than 10% of all active threads are about military tech. A quick way to see what the trends are over time is to just look at what forums get the most posts, and you'd see that the very specific military boards constitute a minority of posts, and even many of the posts within those forums deal with operational and strategic issues, not just tactical and technical issues.

2. Please illuminate what characteristics that the "far right" has and how those are exhibited on this board. There is a strong libertarian bent on the board that manifests itself into a conservative appearance if you try to use a liberal vs. conservative lens; however, the board certainly doesn't trend "far right" at all relative to the US. The current connotation of "far right" within the US conjures up images of evangelicalism, and outside of a handful of members, the majority of the board actually sees religion as causing more harm than the good that it does.

Nemesis
25 May 06,, 21:14
2. Please illuminate what characteristics that the "far right" has and how those are exhibited on this board. There is a strong libertarian bent on the board that manifests itself into a conservative appearance if you try to use a liberal vs. conservative lens; however, the board certainly doesn't trend "far right" at all relative to the US. The current connotation of "far right" within the US conjures up images of evangelicalism, and outside of a handful of members, the majority of the board actually sees religion as causing more harm than the good that it does.
I guess I just didn't get a good sampling so far. It's just that the posters who, so far, have come off as the loudest to me seem very unsympathetic, set in their ways, unbending and quite frankly, extremely xenophobic. I myself have no problem with someone being a conservative, I'm in the middle on the political compass, with a small leaning towards liberalism, but to take it to either extreme is just extremely bad. For instance, saying something like "The illegals are commies." Are you kidding me? Making vast generalizations like that is not only unfair and untrue, but the root of all racism.

I'll probably end up lurking for a little while after today, just to see if I end up liking the place.

TopHatter
25 May 06,, 21:31
My argument is that 9/10 of the most active threads are how t0t4lly c00l this or that piece of military technology is.. You are what you eat.
Many of our members are military, ex-military, or civvie-puke enthusiasts (like me).


It just seems like people here are alot more into how a war is fought than the principals for why a war is being fought.
Most people here are well aware of the principals of why a war is fought.
This is easy to do because some of them have been in the wars.
They (especially Major Shek) provide countless threads that bring a "real" POV of the war, unlike the ratings-driven MSM which prefers to show everything that is going wrong. "If it bleeds, it leads"


Also, this forum seems to be disproportionately dominated the far right.I'll begin randomly selecting "far righters", dragging them out back and shooting them in the back of the head.

This way the board will be more proportionate.

OR....

You could encourage more people such as yourself to join the board and provide an intelligent counterpoint to what you see as right-wing dominance.

Officer of Engineers
25 May 06,, 22:35
I'll probably end up lurking for a little while after today, just to see if I end up liking the place.

You probably won't. As stated, this forum is dominated by military, both former and current. It is in our nature have absolute convictions in our beliefs. We don't second guess ourselves. We will be the 1st to admit and correct our mistakes but it would be hard to convince us with a maybe.

We don't even agree with ourselves. M21Sniper and Gun Grape, both former military, are on different sides of the illegal immigration debate. They have no problem telling each other that neither knows WTF he's talking about.

This being said, you will not find more loyal bunch of guys. Yes, they'll tell each other to Eff Off but both would stand to for the other.

If you don't have the convictions of your beliefs, then this forum ain't for you.

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 00:20
If you don't have the convictions of your beliefs, then this forum ain't for you.
Yep. Lots of people come on board and immediately find it insulting when their opinion isn't taken as gospel. Just after that terms such as xenophobic, racist, right-wing, neo-con start being bandied about.
If you believe that what has been posted is wrong, say so and say why, and be prepared to defend your position. For some reason most Liberals seem incapable of doing that. :confused:
Maybe they need to go to private schools to learn debating?

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 00:27
Oh, and in my time here I've argued with Americans, Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Australians, Frenchmen, Sebians, Muslims, Christians, Budhists, Englishmen, Scandinavians, philosophers, Russians, Chinese, Argentinians, Brazilians, Taiwanese, (sorry if I've missed anyone out)and people of every political bent you can imagine on virtually every topic you can imagine. The military stuff is just the extra bonus. Can't get more 'world affairs' than that...

T-bone
26 May 06,, 01:00
It's only a little .380 :rolleyes:
I don`t think it matters how big it is seeing as I do not have a gun.

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 02:30
If you believe that what has been posted is wrong, say so and say why, and be prepared to defend your position. For some reason most Liberals seem incapable of doing that. :confused:
Maybe they need to go to private schools to learn debating?
School won't help because most of them...

...don't have the convictions of [their] beliefs



I don`t think it matters how big it is seeing as I do not have a gun. What does matter is that I legally own my little squirt gun and am therefore extremely unlikely to use it in an illegal manner. ;)

Just got back from the range in fact, though I've only been using the store's M1 Carbine. Addictive little sucker :redface:

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:03
What does matter is that I legally own my little squirt gun and am therefore extremely unlikely to use it in an illegal manner. ;)

You could fill it with something and squirt it in my eye. :biggrin:

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 03:05
You could fill it with something and squirt in my eye. :biggrin:
Sorry, it only takes .380, not H2O ;)

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:07
Sorry, it only takes .380, not H2O ;) :confused: You what?

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 03:11
:confused: You what?
My pistol is only capable of firing .380 caliber ammunition, not water - otherwise known by it's chemical composition: H Two Oh ;)

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:14
My pistol is only capable of firing .380 caliber ammunition, not water - otherwise known by it's chemical composition: H Two Oh ;)I thought we were talking about your little squirt gun. :tongue:

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:15
This place is called "World Affairs Board" but every time I look at the New Posts link, all that's being talked about is military technology. What is this mess?

You could always leave if you don't like this forum.

Sincerely, a WAB founding father.

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:18
My argument is that 9/10 of the most active threads are how t0t4lly c00l this or that piece of military technology is.

It just seems like people here are alot more into how a war is fought than the principals for why a war is being fought.

Also, this forum seems to be disproportionately dominated the far right.

There aren't any 'far right' posters on this board.

Being pro-abortion and anti-religion you could hardly apply that term to me, and i'm about as rabid a 'rightey' on this board as you're going to find.

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:24
I guess I just didn't get a good sampling so far. It's just that the posters who, so far, have come off as the loudest to me seem very unsympathetic, set in their ways, unbending and quite frankly, extremely xenophobic. I myself have no problem with someone being a conservative, I'm in the middle on the political compass, with a small leaning towards liberalism, but to take it to either extreme is just extremely bad. For instance, saying something like "The illegals are commies." Are you kidding me? Making vast generalizations like that is not only unfair and untrue, but the root of all racism.

I'll probably end up lurking for a little while after today, just to see if I end up liking the place.


I really hope you don't like it.

In fact, considering your condescending tone and you're obvious percieved s00perEorITe vis a vis the rest of us 'nutty far right whackos', i PROMISE to make sure that every post you make is answered by FAR, FAR right philosophical devil's advocated musings.

BTW, i hate leftists, but JESUS does still love you. :biggrin:

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:26
BTW, i hate leftists, but JESUS does still love you. :biggrin:I am so going to have to kill M21Sniper. j/k

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:27
"The illegals are commies." Are you kidding me? Making vast generalizations like that is not only unfair and untrue, but the root of all racism.

You know punk, if you've got a problem with me Sewell NJ is not far from Philly.

I'd be happy to "settle" this problem in person if you have the balls to call me a racist to my face.

Let me know

215-760-0201.

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 03:29
I thought we were talking about your little squirt gun. :tongue:
Heh heh heh....I'll ignore that. :rolleyes:

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:29
You know punk, if you've got a problem with me Sewell NJ is not far from Philly.

I'd be happy to "settle" this problem in person if you have the balls to call me a racist to my face.

Let me know

215-760-0201.Can I buy the rights for the fight?

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:32
I am so going to have to kill M21Sniper. j/k

Only fear and common sense are stopping you....and maybe geography, i don't know how far "My place" is from Philly, lolololol. :biggrin:

Bill
26 May 06,, 03:35
Can I buy the rights for the fight?

To the contrary, i am not challenging the lad, i am merely offering him a face to face forum to call me a racist. :biggrin:

T-bone
26 May 06,, 03:48
To the contrary, i am not challenging the lad, i am merely offering him a face to face forum to call me a racist. :biggrin: :frown: I think the challenge would be cool and I so thought this was going to make me rich. :)

Bill
26 May 06,, 04:01
:frown: I think the challenge would be cool and I so thought this was going to make me rich. :)

Physical violence and threats of physical violence are crimes.

I would never publically threaten anyone with physical violence in WRITING, cause that would just be stupid.

Stupid along the lines of a moron that finds a board that he thinks is full of Red neck bible-thumpin' righteys and "ignorant xenophobic racists" and STAYS anyway.

As if a little rich white elitist would even know what an illegal mexican alien looks like living in Sewell, NJ.

DEMOGRAPHICS OF MANTUA TOWNSHIP, NJ- where Sewell, NJ is located:

As of the census2 of 2000, there were 14,217 people, 5,265 households, and 3,948 families residing in the township. The population density was 345.2/km˛ (894.3/mi˛). There were 5,411 housing units at an average density of 131.4/km˛ (340.4/mi˛). The racial makeup of the township was 95.81% White, 2.07% African American, 0.20% Native American, 0.86% Asian, 0.00% Pacific Islander, 0.28% from other races, and 0.78% from two or more races. 1.26% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewell,_New_Jersey

I love elitists that live in 96% WHITE neighborhoods that call people that live in integrated areas racists.

On the other hand, i live on a street that's about 85% MINORITY by volume.

The dude is no "Nemisis", just another LOUD MOUTHED KNOW-NOTHING ELITIST LEFTIST MORON WHO PROBABLY COWERS IF HE SEES A BLACK MAN APPROACHING HIM IN THE STREET.(See, i can do labels too!)

I wonder when the last time the nit wit has even seen a minority out front of his parents 500k dollar house that wasn't delivering or fixing something....

T-bone
26 May 06,, 04:09
Physical violence and threats of physical violence are crimes.

I only wanted the rights for boxing.

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:01
You know punk, if you've got a problem with me Sewell NJ is not far from Philly.

I'd be happy to "settle" this problem in person if you have the balls to call me a racist to my face.

Let me know

215-760-0201.
You take stuff way too seriously and way too personally. I didn't call you a racist. I said that vast generalizations are the root of racism. If you've got a problem with that statement, attack the statement, not me.

As for my "condescending tone," yeah, you keep thinking that. I wasn't using a condescending tone, well until now. You might have interpreted that way, but quite frankly, that's not my problem.

I hate leftists too. I hate extremism.

Have a nice day.

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:03
As if a little rich white elitist would even know what an illegal mexican alien looks like living in Sewell, NJ.
Keep making assumptions about me, buddy. I'm not rich, but I do see Hispanic immigrants mowing the lawns of the rich neighborhoods, and yeah, I think they deserve fair wages for doing so. Get over it.

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 05:07
Hey Nemesis. Try hitting "new Posts" for all those xenophobic military posts

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:30
Hey Nemesis. Try hitting "new Posts" for all those xenophobic military posts
...I'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny, insulting or wellmeaning, but reguardless of how it was meant to be taken, it was none of the three I listed.

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 05:32
...I'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny, insulting or wellmeaning, but reguardless of how it was meant to be taken, it was none of the three I listed.
I just plain didn't get it, period. :confused:

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:34
I just plain didn't get it, period. :confused:
Neither did I. I've looked around more, and I see that my complaint wasn't all that well founded, and while people do have a little bit of an emotional attachment to the subjects their arguing (which isn't always a bad thing) I generally like the attitude and posting styles of people I see.

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 05:36
...I'm not sure if that was supposed to be funny, insulting or wellmeaning, but reguardless of how it was meant to be taken, it was none of the three I listed.
So you're not interested in mountainclimbing, pet cats, racism, education, new countries, favourite songs, Presidents, or how old everyone is then?

edit: and to spell it out, all of which are currently listing under "new posts"
Oh, and the military stuff as well

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:38
So you're not interested in mountainclimbing, pet cats, racism, education, new countries, favourite songs, Presidents, or how old everyone is then?
Not really, no, not for most of the things you've listed. I still don't really get the afformentioned post's point.

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 05:42
Not really, no, not for most of the things you've listed. I still don't really get the afformentioned post's point.
I get it now, but it only applies if you are using WAB Light.
If you have a dark blue background, you won't see this option.

It's a button in the top menu that allows you to see at a glance all new posts that have been recently made.

It's a good way to pick and choose what currently active threads you'd like to participate in.

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 05:42
Not really, no, not for most of the things you've listed. I still don't really get the afformentioned post's point.
Well gosh dang, I'm obviously just far too obtuse..........................

ArmchairGeneral
26 May 06,, 05:42
Neither did I. I've looked around more, and I see that my complaint wasn't all that well founded, and while people do have a little bit of an emotional attachment to the subjects their arguing (which isn't always a bad thing) I generally like the attitude and posting styles of people I see.
Good to hear. I've been lurking on this board for about 2 years (just now actually registered) and the discussions tend to change greatly from week to week, both in volume, subject, and quality. I remember some truly horrific threads a while back, just went on and on, (I hate you, I hate you back, you're stupid, you lack the logic, nyet nyet, you're all f**king morons!, etc, etc, etc). It's a good place, with many well balanced people, and a few utter maniacs like me.

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:44
I remember some truly horrific threads a while back, just went on and on, (I hate you, I hate you back, you're stupid, you lack the logic, nyet nyet, you're all f**king morons!, etc, etc, etc).
I think I'm already experiencing one of those...

Nemesis
26 May 06,, 05:45
Well gosh dang, I'm obviously just far too obtuse..........................
No, you just could've worded it better. What was the point? Were you trying to call me stupid? mean? purple? what?

ArmchairGeneral
26 May 06,, 06:05
No, you just could've worded it better. What was the point? Were you trying to call me stupid? mean? purple? what?
One bit of absolutely crucial advice: develop a thick skin, and quick. I mean bulletproof, fire proof...Sniper proof. LOL. No offense, Sniper. ;)

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 06:07
No, you just could've worded it better. What was the point? Were you trying to call me stupid? mean? purple? what?
Oh relax and find yourself a non-military thread. :rolleyes:
They're everywhere. Maybe not active but you can alway revive one.

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 06:11
One bit of absolutely crucial advice: develop a thick skin, and quick.
Oh, but they're sooo much fun when they're still all soft and sensitive :tongue:

ArmchairGeneral
26 May 06,, 06:15
Oh, but they're sooo much fun when they're still all soft and sensitive :tongue:
Yessss, the tender little hobbitses are sweet and crunchable, no?

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 06:30
Yessss, the tender little hobbitses are sweet and crunchable, no?
LOL :biggrin:

I think we might have made a mistake leaving the Shire, Pippin.

Bill
26 May 06,, 06:56
Keep making assumptions about me, buddy. I'm not rich, but I do see Hispanic immigrants mowing the lawns of the rich neighborhoods, and yeah, I think they deserve fair wages for doing so. Get over it.

ONLY if they BELONG here.

If they are here illegally, not only do they NOT deserve wages, they BELONG IN JAIL(or at least deported).

We'll pay them for making license plates, like we pay the rest of the criminals.

You do understand that commie or not, these people are CRIMINALS in WILLFUL AND FLAGRANT VIOLATION of US LAW.

Right?

troung
26 May 06,, 07:04
Uhh... Who the fukk are you... thats my answer to this stupid ****ing thread....

troung
26 May 06,, 07:09
The dude is no "Nemisis", just another LOUD MOUTHED KNOW-NOTHING ELITIST LEFTIST MORON WHO PROBABLY COWERS IF HE SEES A BLACK MAN APPROACHING HIM IN THE STREET.(See, i can do labels too!)

But remember he believes "they" are good people, even if he would never invite one in his house over to dinner and he is "friends" with that African (Kenyan) exchange student he sits two rows in front of in math class and has never actually spoken to.

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:18
You take stuff way too seriously and way too personally.

You have no idea how right you are. Ask around.

And i would opine that if you go to any new locale and basically start out by straight away biitching about how dysfunctional it and the people that populate it are, you'll find that a lot of those people will be prone to get highly annoyed, and will therefore tend to treat you rudely as a direct result.

That's a life lesson for you, courtesy of WAB, free of charge. Use it well.

LOL...

But yes, i take things very seriously when i'm not busy being totally irreverant.


but quite frankly, that's not my problem.

It shouldn't be a problem. Because if you don't like this board, it's posters, or me, you can simply leave and never be bothered by us again.


I hate extremism.

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
~Barry Goldwater.

When you or any other concerned party realizes i REALLY BELIEVE THAT, you will understand what makes me tick a hell of a lot better than you do now.

I like extremists. They're a lot more consistent(and predictible, and therefore reliable) than someone that thinks the world is 85 billion shades of grey. Those people, you never know how the hell they'll react to any given external stimulus.

Me, you know what to expect with me. :biggrin:

As far as you not being a spoiled rich college kid living in a rich New Jersey neighborhood......if you want to prove me wrong all you have to do is call and arrange a face to face.

I DID give you my phone number.

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:25
But remember he believes "they" are good people, even if he would never invite one in his house over to dinner and he is "friends" with that African (Kenyan) exchange student he sits two rows in front of in math class and has never actually spoken to.

Is that the same as me being friends with my downstairs negihbor Rasheed, a young black guy that has had an extension cord running from my ap't into his for the last month so he can have electricity(on my dime) because he can't afford to pay his electric bill, just because i like him? ;)

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:31
Not really, no, not for most of the things you've listed. I still don't really get the afformentioned post's point.

He's pointing out that those are all current topics at WAB.

The "New posts" feature allows you to see the new posts since your last visit.

Apparently Pari had just logged in, and all those subjects had new posts or new threads relating to/discussing them.

troung
26 May 06,, 07:40
Is that the same as me being friends with my downstairs negihbor Rasheed, a young black guy that has had an extension cord running from my ap't into his for the last month so he can have electricity(on my dime) because he can't afford to pay his electric bill, just because i like him?

Sorry he is just robbing you... :frown:

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:41
One bit of absolutely crucial advice: develop a thick skin, and quick. I mean bulletproof, fire proof...Sniper proof. LOL. No offense, Sniper. ;)

None taken. :)

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:42
Sorry he is just robbing you... :frown:

Nah, dude's good for it. He's the sort whose worth helping. He has extenuating circumstances.

troung
26 May 06,, 07:45
Thats a really nice thing to do...

=====

Far more noble then refusing to hand that "African" kid in math class a pencil and pretending he didn't just speak to you... as your palms sweat, knees knock and pants get a wet spot... and after class wondering if he can do a tribal dance...

Bill
26 May 06,, 07:55
Thats a really nice thing to do...

=====

Far more noble then refusing to hand that "African" kid in math class a pencil and pretending he didn't just speak to you... as your palms sweat, knees knock and pants get a wet spot... and after class wondering if he can do a tribal dance...

LOL......

OH SNAP! HERE COMES A DARKIE!

HIDE! :tongue:

Parihaka
26 May 06,, 12:45
He's pointing out that those are all current topics at WAB.

The "New posts" feature allows you to see the new posts since your last visit.

Apparently Pari had just logged in, and all those subjects had new posts or new threads relating to/discussing them.
Yep. I was cruising through all those threads and more while he was still pontificating about what a boring lot we were and why he wasn't sure why he was gracing our presence.
A simple heads up both confused him and lead him to give me a lecture on how I should make better use of my linguistic skills if I wished to talk to him, at which point I took a deep breath and reminded myself of something I learned a while ago: if Snipe takes agin someone, there's usually a good reason :biggrin:

TopHatter
26 May 06,, 13:44
And i would opine that if you go to any new locale and basically start out by straight away biitching about how dysfunctional it and the people that populate it are, you'll find that a lot of those people will be prone to get highly annoyed, and will therefore tend to treat you rudely as a direct result.
One of the top 3 mistakes made by new members to the WAB, IMHO.
Probably to any message board or community for that matter.

T-bone
26 May 06,, 14:08
One bit of absolutely crucial advice: develop a thick skin, and quick. I mean bulletproof, fire proof...Sniper proof. LOL. No offense, Sniper. ;)I know he is a "F".

Shek
26 May 06,, 14:57
Keep making assumptions about me, buddy. I'm not rich, but I do see Hispanic immigrants mowing the lawns of the rich neighborhoods, and yeah, I think they deserve fair wages for doing so. Get over it.

What is a fair wage? Some arbitrary wage dictated to others, or what people are willing to pay and what people willing to work agree upon? Seriously, I was mowing my parents own lawn at around 11 or 12 years of age - it isn't rocket science.

Bill
26 May 06,, 19:43
I took a deep breath and reminded myself of something I learned a while ago: if Snipe takes agin someone, there's usually a good reason

I am duly honored to be your personal barometer in such issues. ;)

Bill
26 May 06,, 19:47
I know he is a "F".

I trust you mean that in a good way? :biggrin:

T-bone
27 May 06,, 03:36
I trust you mean that in a good way? :biggrin:I really meant "Extraverted Feeling".

Extraverted Feeling is concerned with the likes and dislikes of others and what is socially appropriate rather than what is fair or just. It organizes the external world according to interpersonal relationships.

The extraverted feeling type follows fashion and seeks to harmonize personal feelings with general social values. Thinking is always subordinate to feeling and is ignored or repressed if intellectual conclusions fail to confirm the convictions of the heart. When this type is extreme or neurotic, feeling may become gushing or extravagant and dependent upon momentary enthusiasms that may quickly turn about with changing circumstances. Such a person may therefore seem hysterical, fickle, moody or even to be suffering from multiple personality. Repressed thinking may also erupt in infantile, negative, obsessive ways. This can lead to the attribution of dreaded characteristics to the very objects or people that are most loved and valued.

But I do suppose he is that sometimes also. :biggrin:

Bill
27 May 06,, 11:37
I really meant "Extraverted Feeling".

Extraverted Feeling is concerned with the likes and dislikes of others and what is socially appropriate rather than what is fair or just. It organizes the external world according to interpersonal relationships.

The extraverted feeling type follows fashion and seeks to harmonize personal feelings with general social values. Thinking is always subordinate to feeling and is ignored or repressed if intellectual conclusions fail to confirm the convictions of the heart. When this type is extreme or neurotic, feeling may become gushing or extravagant and dependent upon momentary enthusiasms that may quickly turn about with changing circumstances. Such a person may therefore seem hysterical, fickle, moody or even to be suffering from multiple personality. Repressed thinking may also erupt in infantile, negative, obsessive ways. This can lead to the attribution of dreaded characteristics to the very objects or people that are most loved and valued.

But I do suppose he is that sometimes also. :biggrin:


LOL, and the Nemesis fan club grows even larger. ;)

Shek
27 May 06,, 13:14
Not really, no, not for most of the things you've listed. I still don't really get the afformentioned post's point.

How ironic. You have a picture of Lincoln posted, and yet a post that revolves around Lincoln doesn't suit your fancy. Do you like anything besides *****ing?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 05:14
What is a fair wage? Some arbitrary wage dictated to others, or what people are willing to pay and what people willing to work agree upon? Seriously, I was mowing my parents own lawn at around 11 or 12 years of age - it isn't rocket science.
Well no it isn't, but you weren't supporting yourself and a family on that wage.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 05:55
Well no it isn't, but you weren't supporting yourself and a family on that wage.
So? You ready for the answer to the problem? Don't try to support a family doing that...

Shek
28 May 06,, 15:49
Well no it isn't, but you weren't supporting yourself and a family on that wage.

That's right, because I was mowing my parents lawn. Recognizing that I wanted to provide well for my family, I chose to go to college before getting married and to work for a few years before deciding to have kids. As a result of my choices, I am able to work in a field that I enjoy and one that allows me to live a middle class life. FYI, I attended public schools all the way through graduating from college, and so I am where I am today not because of any special privileges, but because of the choices I made and taking advantage of the same opportunities that others are availed.

HistoricalDavid
28 May 06,, 16:13
Well no it isn't, but you weren't supporting yourself and a family on that wage.

"Look at your wage and decide the size of your family, not look at your family and decide the size of your wage" is a good mantra to take.

If not, you could always have the government forcibly fix it for you through the minimum wage... i.e. you're getting the government to run around cartellising the labour supply.

Do I sound like a 'far-right' nutter to you?

Or do you not realise that the difference between the right and the far-right is like a chair and an electric chair? Don't conflate the two.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 16:33
Or do you not realise that the difference between the right and the far-right is like a chair and an electric chair? Don't conflate the two.
*shrug* He's young. Kids tend to see things in absolutes.

Life usually shows them that reality is far different when they are not living with their parents or in college.

HistoricalDavid
28 May 06,, 16:59
I'm 16 and am living with parents. It's still no excuse.

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 17:56
Yes, you are most certainly a far right nutter. :tongue: ;) It's just that you're a different kind of far right nutter. This one dimensional political spectrum is truly annoying to me. There's all kind of people you can call far right, and some of 'em hate the others. Even the Libertarian super short political test with its square spectrum is not completely sufficient, in my opinion. Although it's vastly superior to anything else I've seen.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:08
I understand the argument that people should look at their wage first before having a family, but sometimes that isn't an option. Why would an illegal immigrant have come to the United States one could get a better job in Mexico? What if a family had been fairly well off and then something terrible happened. It wasn't that long ago when the U.S. was steeped in depression, and some U.S. families left the country illegally looking for work.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 18:11
I understand the argument that people should look at their wage first before having a family, but sometimes that isn't an option.
Then they'll need more than one job, and more than one wage earner in the family...

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:46
Then they'll need more than one job, and more than one wage earner in the family...
What makes you think that that isn't already the case?

Confed999
28 May 06,, 18:47
What makes you think that that isn't already the case?
Then they're fine...

Bill
28 May 06,, 18:48
Life is not fair.

Not everyone GETS to be an astronaut when they grow up. Society needs scientists and trash collectors alike.

We are who we are because of the choice's we've made.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:50
Then they're fine...
A mother and father being migrant workers and their family is fine?

A mother and father working 2 lower than minimum wage jobs each and their family is fine?

American Gov't and Comparative Politics Class:
We did a project on this. We had a spouse, and 2 children, a horrible tragedy had struck, and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs and we had to find out how to support a family. The conclusion the class came to? This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc.

Now, that's MINIMUM wage. How would we pull that off with LOWER than minimum wage?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:52
Life is not fair.

Not everyone GETS to be an astronaut when they grow up. Society needs scientists and trash collectors alike.

We are who we are because of the choice's we've made.
That's all well and good. I don't think that because you're a trash collector (they make shitloads of money by the way) you should be expected to take crap for wages and survive. Life is only unfair because of the atrocities that man commits to his fellow man.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 18:55
and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs
Get another job.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 18:55
I'm 16 and am living with parents. It's still no excuse.
Never said it was an excuse. You'll also note my use of qualifiers. ;)

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 18:56
Give me a break. Life is unfair, period. Is it fair that an old blind grizzly bear who maybe can't survive another winter chomp down on a new borned fawn who's got an entire lifetime before it?

Pfft! Nature doesn't play fair. Why should man expect any different?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:57
Get another job.
Yes. Two full time minimum wage jobs. That makes sense. Who needs sleep anyway?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 18:58
Pfft! Nature doesn't play fair. Why should man expect any different?
So you're reasoning is, despite higher intelligence and the ability to play fair, who cares?

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:00
I understand the argument that people should look at their wage first before having a family, but sometimes that isn't an option. Why would an illegal immigrant have come to the United States one could get a better job in Mexico? What if a family had been fairly well off and then something terrible happened. It wasn't that long ago when the U.S. was steeped in depression, and some U.S. families left the country illegally looking for work.

1. Please cite who left the US illegally. Also, you must be speaking of the Great Depression seven decades ago. That was a worldwide depression, so leaving the US hardly improved ones' position.

2. If you are here illegally, then you should have no standing by the very virtue that your existence in the US is ILLEGAL.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 19:02
So you're reasoning is, despite higher intelligence and the ability to play fair, who cares?

Higher intelligence should tell you that fair does not exist. Period.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:02
A mother and father being migrant workers and their family is fine?

A mother and father working 2 lower than minimum wage jobs each and their family is fine?

American Gov't and Comparative Politics Class:
We did a project on this. We had a spouse, and 2 children, a horrible tragedy had struck, and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs and we had to find out how to support a family. The conclusion the class came to? This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc.

Now, that's MINIMUM wage. How would we pull that off with LOWER than minimum wage?

If you earn minimum wage, then that is how you are valued in the workplace. Very few people earn minimum wage beyond teenagers, who typically are working only for disposable income.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:03
Higher intelligence should tell you that fair does not exist. Period.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How about this. Next time I see you on the streets, I'll shoot you in front of a cop, take your money and then kill your family. Also, the cop won't do anything about it, and neither will the entire justice system. Sound good to you?

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:04
That's all well and good. I don't think that because you're a trash collector (they make shitloads of money by the way) you should be expected to take crap for wages and survive. Life is only unfair because of the atrocities that man commits to his fellow man.

You are paid according to how you add value to society. Why do doctors get paid more than trash collectors (who typically make a very decent wage)? Because people value matters of life and death more than they value the inconvenience of having trash around.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 19:04
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Oh crap....here it comes.
Nemesis, that was a singularly poor choice of words. ;)

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:05
You are paid according to how you add value to society. Why do doctors get paid more than trash collectors (who typically make a very decent wage)? Because people value matters of life and death more than they value the inconvenience of having trash around.
Inconvenience? That's not inconvenient, it's a health hazard. You don't get paid by how you add value to society, you get paid based upon how desperate people are to have what you offer as an individual.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:06
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How about this. Next time I see you on the streets, I'll shoot you in front of a cop, take your money and then kill your family. Also, the cop won't do anything about it, and neither will the entire justice system. Sound good to you?

If everything was meant to be totally fair, then why are children born with handicaps? Why are some born with higher IQ than others? Why are some born with the talent to allow them to make millions in the NBA, while others aren't even competitive in grade school sports?

Have you ever read of a man called Darwin? His theory is alive and well, even today.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:07
If everything was meant to be totally fair, then why are children born with handicaps? Why are some born with higher IQ than others? Why are some born with the talent to allow them to make millions in the NBA, while others aren't even competitive in grade school sports?

Have you ever read of a man called Darwin? His theory is alive and well, even today.
Again, my point stands. Nature may not be fair, but we have the ability to level the playing field, so why shouldn't we? Ever heard of Japan? Their society is alive and well.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:07
Yes. Two full time minimum wage jobs. That makes sense. Who needs sleep anyway?
I came from a poor family. My father worked 70 hours a week, my mother worked 40 AND went to college at the same time. They pulled themselves up, nobody needed to take anything from someone else to give to them.

So you're reasoning is, despite higher intelligence and the ability to play fair, who cares?
How is it fair to take from someone and give to another? That's not fair, it's theft.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Bad move...

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:09
but we have the ability to level the playing field, so why shouldn't we?
Because it's not fair to the people with greater ability, being forced down to the lowest common denominatior...

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:10
I came from a poor family. My father worked 70 hours a week, my mother worked 40 AND went to college at the same time. They pulled themselves up, nobody needed to take anything from someone else to give to them.
That sounds like your dad worked 1 full time position. Was it minimum wage?

How is it fair to take from someone and give to another? That's not fair, it's theft.
When did that situation come into play?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:11
Because it's not fair to the people with greater ability, being forced down to the lowest common denominatior...
How exactly would that happen?

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:11
Inconvenience? That's not inconvenient, it's a health hazard.

Only if you don't know what to do. I just bury it, burn it, or take it to the landfill myself. Trash collectors get paid to do what I'd prefer not to do. Same goes for lawnmowing services (which are actually quite pricey IMO - but then again, I've been mowing a yard for two decades and actually find mowing my own lawn to be relaxing - it's nice every once in a while to do something that is almost 100% mindless, with the highest level of skill being to tell myself "don't stick your feet into the blade!"). People that sign up to have someone else prefer to spend the $40 for two guys to spend 15 minutes mowing because they'd rather not have to maintain a lawnmower, bag the grass, and have to shower. If they had the time, then they wouldn't value a lawnmowing service for $40.


You don't get paid by how you add value to society, you get paid based upon how desperate people are to have what you offer as an individual.

Same thing said two different ways.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:13
If not, you could always have the government forcibly fix it for you through the minimum wage... i.e. you're getting the government to run around cartellising the labour supply.

Raising the minimum wage increases unemployment - just like rent ceilings decrease the amount of housing available. Governments should only intervene if there is a market failure, and people being paid low wages because they work in jobs that require little to no skill and are not in high demand is not a market failure!

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:13
Same thing said two different ways.
That's if you have the same view of what is "valuable" as I do.

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 19:14
A mother and father being migrant workers and their family is fine?

A mother and father working 2 lower than minimum wage jobs each and their family is fine?

American Gov't and Comparative Politics Class:
We did a project on this. We had a spouse, and 2 children, a horrible tragedy had struck, and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs and we had to find out how to support a family. The conclusion the class came to? This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc.

Now, that's MINIMUM wage. How would we pull that off with LOWER than minimum wage?
Um. I've done a project on this too. It's called MY LIFE. Two minimum wage jobs comes out to 21000 a year. My parents have had a combined income of 12-15k for the last 10+ years. Not only have we done just fine, but they've helped one child through college, WITH NO DEBT, and they're helping me through right now, AND trying to build a house. You would be surprised at what you can scrounge in today's society. The amt of good stuff Americans throw away is absolutely astounding.

Disclosure: At the beginning of my college career, we inherited a few thousand dollars from my grandfather. Also, we've been able to either get cars very cheap through family or friends, or we've gotten them for free. And we got a lot of hand me downs from family. And earned income tax credit adds a few thousand. But we could live a lot cheaper if we wanted to. And before you ask, my childhood was completely awesome. I really cannot think of any way more money would have added much to it.
(edit) Oh, and we didn't have any utility bills besides phone for 7 years, 'cause we were solar powered.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:14
That sounds like your dad worked 1 full time position. Was it minimum wage?
It was at first, electricians helper. And it was 2 jobs to get the 70 hours a week. I usually do that myself, though it's not for the money.

When did that situation come into play?
Then how do you plan on "leveling the playing field"? To level a piece of ground one must take earth from the high points, and put it in the low spots.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:14
How exactly would that happen?

Look at the Soviet Union, where communism tried to level the playing field. As good ol' Reagan said, communism has been "relegated to the dust bowl of history!"

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:15
That's if you have the same view of what is "valuable" as I do.
Nobody has the same view as anyone else...

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:17
Look at the Soviet Union, where communism tried to level the playing field. As good ol' Reagan said, communism has been "relegated to the dust bowl of history!"
I wasn't suggesting something like communism. My point is that while capitalism is good, why can't people do what they can to see to it that the less wealthy population is at least well off enough to live their lives.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:18
Again, my point stands. Nature may not be fair, but we have the ability to level the playing field, so why shouldn't we? Ever heard of Japan? Their society is alive and well.

And how do they level the playing field? By sending kids to school on the weekends? By having a high rate of school age suicide? By suffering a nearly decade of stagnant growth from which they are barely rising out of. Be careful about what examples you want to highlight, as they may not yield all the fruit you wish for.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:18
Then how do you plan on "leveling the playing field"? To level a piece of ground one must take earth from the high points, and put it in the low spots.
I thought we were talking about immigration?

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:21
I wasn't suggesting something like communism. My point is that while capitalism is good, why can't people do what they can to see to it that the less wealthy population is at least well off enough to live their lives.

Lots of people do. Look at religious charities. There's billion of dollars spent every year to assist others who are in need. However, once again, don't confuse hand outs with a helping hand.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:22
Um. I've done a project on this too. It's called MY LIFE. Two minimum wage jobs comes out to 21000 a year. My parents have had a combined income of 12-15k for the last 10+ years. Not only have we done just fine, but they've helped one child through college, WITH NO DEBT, and they're helping me through right now, AND trying to build a house. You would be surprised at what you can scrounge in today's society. The amt of good stuff Americans throw away is absolutely astounding.

Disclosure: At the beginning of my college career, we inherited a few thousand dollars from my grandfather. Also, we've been able to either get cars very cheap through family or friends, or we've gotten them for free. And we got a lot of hand me downs from family. And earned income tax credit adds a few thousand. But we could live a lot cheaper if we wanted to. And before you ask, my childhood was completely awesome. I really cannot think of any way more money would have added much to it.
(edit) Oh, and we didn't have any utility bills besides phone for 7 years, 'cause we were solar powered.

My hats off to you and your family. There's a reason that you'll do well, and it's because you've inherited strong values and an expectation to work instead of being provided for.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 19:23
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How about this. Next time I see you on the streets, I'll shoot you in front of a cop, take your money and then kill your family. Also, the cop won't do anything about it, and neither will the entire justice system. Sound good to you?

Sounds good to me. You don't mind if I kill you 1st.

I've been there and done that. It's called war.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:23
I thought we were talking about immigration?
Your example, not mine. LOL

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:24
My hats off to you and your family. There's a reason that you'll do well, and it's because you've inherited strong values and an expectation to work instead of being provided for.
Agreed!

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:27
That's if you have the same view of what is "valuable" as I do.

I see the difference now. I was referring to what your total salary will be, which is based in principle upon how much individuals' preferences sum up, and hence, your salary will be based on how much society as a whole values your service. When you talk about what individuals pay someone, then they will pay based on their own preference (although in most occasions, there won't be large information asymmetries, and so most people won't pay someone what they are worth to them as an individual, but the prevailing wage as defined by society's preferences).

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:28
And how do they level the playing field? By sending kids to school on the weekends? By having a high rate of school age suicide? By suffering a nearly decade of stagnant growth from which they are barely rising out of. Be careful about what examples you want to highlight, as they may not yield all the fruit you wish for.
Well every society has it's downpoints. I wasn't about to paint it as the city on the hill. You'll find that I'm much more of the opinion that people should willingly help eachother out, through donation or volunteer work or whatever, rather than forcing people to help out through taxes.

My example of Japan was simply to state that people don't have to be assholes to eachother. I have a friend of mine whose family moved to Japan. He's a violinist, and he was in my orchestra class. His family had lived in New York and had gotten tired of the dog eat dog atmosphere, so they moved to The Hamptons (M21Sniper: ;)) expecting people to be nicer. Basically they found the same attitude, masked as a sense of self entitlement. So his family decided to move to Japan. I didn't understand why at first.

Anyway, my friend was upset about it, but he's doing well. I went to visit him there once. We were sitting on street corner, and he had his violin in it's case with him. He asked if we wanted to go get something to eat. I said yes, so we walked across the street to the McDonald's. I said to him "Dude, you just left your $4,500 violin on the streets of Tokyo. What the hell is wrong with you?"

He looked at me and said "Dude. This is Japan."

I also heard on the radio once, a story of a man who had lost his wallet on the JR (Japanese Railway). He thought it was long gone, until he got a call from the JR. A man had turned in his wallet, and that they had to appologize. They appologized because they were shortstaffed that day, and there weren't enough people around to spare one of the employees to hand deliver the wallet to his house. They wanted to know if it would be too terribly inconvenient for him to go and pick it up himself.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 19:31
The term Gaijin exists for a reason and it ain't about being fair.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:32
I said to him "Dude, you just left your $4,500 violin on the streets of Tokyo. What the hell is wrong with you?"

He looked at me and said "Dude. This is Japan."
You can do that where my parents live, but they'd call it a fiddle...

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:33
The term Gaijin exists for a reason and it ain't about being fair.
I thought it was about treating people with a sort of respect, and that the collective was more important than the individual.

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 19:34
You can do that where my parents live, but they'd call it a fiddle...
LOL. Right on! Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can say that about where I live. It's all the damn Yankee's fault! (Just kidding, kind of)

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 19:34
What a load of horsecrap! The Nanking Massacre mean anything to you?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 19:37
What a load of horsecrap! The Nanking Massacre mean anything to you?
The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 19:39
The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.
A little bit clearer please. It sounds like you're advocating massacre, which I'm sure you're not. ;)

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:50
Let's bring some reality into this discussion.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes537081.htm

The mean wage for trash collectors is $30,160, and the median wage is $28,460. In New Jersey, the mean wage is $38,290.

Using your example of a family of four, the poverty line in 2003 was $18,810. So, we'll assume that it's increased to $20K. Thus, your average trash collector easily exceeds the poverty line, and your 10% percentile trash collector requires that the wife would have to find a job make $4,200. At $6 an hour, which is right around the minimum age, your talking 700 hours of work, or 14 hours a week. Your example from your class starts with the invalid assumption that minimum wage jobs are the only thing available.

Shek
28 May 06,, 19:51
The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.

Because different communities have different values. You can find the same type of values that you describe all over the place - it's not necessary to move to Japan to find them.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 19:52
Your example from your class starts with the invalid assumption
Can't indoctrinate the kids with reality...

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:00
A little bit clearer please. It sounds like you're advocating massacre, which I'm sure you're not. ;)
ROFL!!!

No, I'm not. I'm only saying that people should give a crap about what happens to their fellow man, even if that fellow man happens to be an illegal immigrant, or worse a communist :)

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 20:01
The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.

Like treating women whom you've just raped and bayonetting them like pig meat? Denying citizenship to the children of Korean slave labourers you've forcibly settle in Japan? And denying that you've ever done those things?

Wake up, kid. They're just as much bastards as the rest of us.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:04
Or do you not realise that the difference between the right and the far-right is like a chair and an electric chair? Don't conflate the two.You got it all wrong.The right would put me in a electric chair and the far right would do experiments on me, then gas me.

HistoricalDavid
28 May 06,, 20:06
ROFL!!!

No, I'm not. I'm only saying that people should give a crap about what happens to their fellow man, even if that fellow man happens to be an illegal immigrant, or worse a communist :)

A communist himself does care what happens to other people - to see to it that they are shot, starved, controlled, enslaved and generally oppressed all for the good of the working class...

The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.
What's it got to do with the collective? It's far more satisfying to be polite to individuals instead of some intangible 'collective'.

and that the collective was more important than the individual.
At this board I'm guessing you'll find a suitably outraged reaction.

People here don't really like collectivism, probably because so many hundreds of millions of people have been murdered and continue to be murdered because of it or using it as an excuse.

Well every society has it's downpoints. I wasn't about to paint it as the city on the hill.
Could have chosen a better example, eh?

I said to him "Dude, you just left your $4,500 violin on the streets of Tokyo. What the hell is wrong with you?"
That is NOT the same as charity. You have an inalienable RIGHT not to have your property stolen.

He looked at me and said "Dude. This is Japan."
How quaint.

They wanted to know if it would be too terribly inconvenient for him to go and pick it up himself.
The discussion started out about the minimum wage. How on earth did it get to this? Dude...

Regardless, your anecdotes are nice.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How about this. Next time I see you on the streets, I'll shoot you in front of a cop, take your money and then kill your family. Also, the cop won't do anything about it, and neither will the entire justice system. Sound good to you?
Nope, you don't have a right to physically infringe on someone else's freedom. Neither do you have an entitlement to someone else's money... since those two are the same things.

I wasn't suggesting something like communism. My point is that while capitalism is good, why can't people do what they can to see to it that the less wealthy population is at least well off enough to live their lives.
To an extent, they do. The United States is the most charitable nation on earth, followed by Canada and Great Britain, as a percentage of GDP. Ironically, the generally more capitalist nations upon the earth.

Again, my point stands. Nature may not be fair, but we have the ability to level the playing field, so why shouldn't we? Ever heard of Japan? Their society is alive and well.
Good example. Japan is one of the most capitalist national economies on earth, probably more so than the United States, though not as capitalist as South Korea or especially Hong Kong. Regardless, it's pretty free.

Nevertheless, Japan has a declining population and very uneven economic performance. So much for the 'collective'.

Life is only unfair because of the atrocities that man commits to his fellow man.
Yes, and not paying someone the wage they want is not 'unfair'.

American Gov't and Comparative Politics Class:
We did a project on this. We had a spouse, and 2 children, a horrible tragedy had struck, and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs and we had to find out how to support a family. The conclusion the class came to? This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc.

Why have you got a family in the first place if you haven't got secure, well-paid employment?

And say a horrible tragedy does strike. How often does that happen, and is that a reason to change the situation for everybody?

I understand the argument that people should look at their wage first before having a family, but sometimes that isn't an option. Why would an illegal immigrant have come to the United States one could get a better job in Mexico?
...What, did they just accidentally land up with this family, through no fault of their own?

Do I need to educate you about the birds and the bees...

What if a family had been fairly well off and then something terrible happened. It wasn't that long ago when the U.S. was steeped in depression, and some U.S. families left the country illegally looking for work.

Yes, depressions are the reason minimum wage workers can't support themselves.

The Great Depression was 70 years ago and a min wage wouldn't have helped them out of proverty.

You got it all wrong.The right would put me in a electric chair

...After a free court of law has found you guilty of murder?

I oppose the death penalty - purely on the principle of the fallibility of evidence. Otherwise, the 'OMFG BBQ lawlsors RIGHT' is pretty reasonable in its support of the death penalty and its total prevention of scum further abrogating other people's rights.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:07
Like treating women whom you've just raped and bayonetting them like pig meat? Denying citizenship to the children of Korean slave labourers you've forcibly settle in Japan? And denying that you've ever done those things?

Wake up, kid. They're just as much bastards as the rest of us.
You need to go back and actually get the point of what I'm saying. I'm wide awake, and I don't like alot of what I see. I said that every society has its downpoints, I said that my point is that people should care about what happens to eachother.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 20:11
WAKE UP! The point is that they don't!

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 20:12
I oppose the death penalty - purely on the principle of the fallibility of evidence. Otherwise, the 'OMFG BBQ lawlsors RIGHT' is pretty reasonable in its support of the death penalty and its total prevention of scum further abrogating other people's rights.
Agreed. That and maybe it's not as good a deterrent as one might think.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:13
LOL, and the Nemesis fan club grows even larger. ;)Maybe on here but not on INTP Central they voted to hang him. He got 3 times as many votes as me and they banned me for two weeks but not him wtf. :rolleyes:

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:14
I said that my point is that people should care about what happens to eachother.
Then your example was bad, because they do not care any more than anyone else...

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:16
maybe it's not as good a deterrent as one might think.
It invariably deters that one criminal from harming anyone ever again. ;)

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:21
Maybe on here but not on INTP Central they voted to hang him. He got 3 times as many votes as me and they banned me for two weeks but not him wtf. :rolleyes:
Probably because you're an asshat who posts nothing but garbling trash.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:22
Probably because you're an asshat who posts nothing but garbling trash.And you don`t? You know what happened the last time we had a argument.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:22
WAKE UP! The point is that they don't!
WAKE UP! My point is that they could, and should.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:22
And you don`t?
Nope. I don't.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:26
Nope. I don't.That is ********.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:27
That is ********.
And somehow, you're the one whose been confined to Purgatory.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:27
Probably because you're an asshat
That's a warning. Cut the personal attacks, don't make me tell you again...

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:28
That is ********.
You're right. ;)

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 20:32
WAKE UP! My point is that they could, and should.
Sure, but are you going to make them? There's nothing on this earth that could make everybody nice. The key is to do the best you can, without devolving into tyranny.

Of course, the other side of the coin is in my sig. ;)

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 20:34
WAKE UP! My point is that they could, and should.

BALONEY! You're the one who toute just how wonderful it is over in Japan!

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:35
BALONEY! You're the one who toute just how wonderful it is over in Japan!
omfg. THE PEOPLE HERE COULD AND SHOULD.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:41
That's a warning. Cut the personal attacks, don't make me tell you again... He can `t take it I am right. ;)


And somehow, you're the one whose been confined to Purgatory.If you going to be like that I want you to carry on our flame war.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:41
If you going to be like that I want you to carry on our flame war.
Both of you stop baiting.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:43
Both of you stop baiting.I was not talking about on here. I was talking about in Purgatory on INTP Central.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 20:44
omfg. THE PEOPLE HERE COULD AND SHOULD.
HORSE PUCKY! No one is forcing slave labour to come over here and we're not bayonetting their women after raping them.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 20:45
wow...this is just...wow... :rolleyes:

Anybody got a cold beer?

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:45
HORSE PUCKY! No one is forcing slave labour to come over here and we're not bayonetting their women after raping them.
Methinks thou doth try to get a rise from me.

T-bone
28 May 06,, 20:46
Anybody got a cold beer?I will have one. :cool:

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:46
I was not talking about onhere I was talking about in Purgatory on INTP Central.
I don't care where else, just here. Stop it here. If you two can't get along press the ignore button located in the person's profile you wish to ignore. That person's posts will go away and you never have to deal with them here again...

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 20:48
I will have one. :cool:
I suggest you pay attention to what Confed is trying to tell you. ;)

That goes for Nemesis as well.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:52
That goes for Nemesis as well.
I did. I deleted the last post I was going to put in for a response.

Confed999
28 May 06,, 20:52
I did. I deleted the last post I was going to put in for a response.
I saw that, and appreciate it.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 06,, 20:55
Methinks thou doth try to get a rise from me.
You think way too much of yourself.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:57
You think way too much of yourself.
Likewise. It's a part of the human condition.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 20:58
Likewise. It's a part of the human condition.
The Colonel has quite a bit to think of. Far more so than yourself.

Nemesis
28 May 06,, 20:59
The Colonel has quite a bit to think of. Far more so than yourself.
How exactly would you know that?

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 21:02
How exactly would you know that?
Take a wild guess.

It might be because I've known him on this board since September of 2003.

Shek
28 May 06,, 21:03
How exactly would you know that?

Based on 7,610 posts, exactly 7,510 more posts that you have at this exact time. He also has many more years of life experience, seeing humankind at both its best and its worst, and far worst that you would think or maybe even believe that he has witnessed. It tends to ground your beliefs and sober you about what you wish ought to be, knowing that you can't always achieve ideals . . .

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 21:04
[OoE] also has many more years of life experience, seeing humankind at both its best and its worst, and far worst that you would think or maybe even believe that he has witnessed.
Well, I supppose it could be that too.... ;)

ArmchairGeneral
28 May 06,, 21:06
How exactly would you know that?
Now THIS is why I took 2 years getting to know who the people are on here before I joined. Dude, OoE is a retired Colonel in the Canadian Defense Forces. This is a fact. He has years and years of experience in the military, and also, he's probably 4 times your age. I hope. Or OoE's gonna kill me. Maybe he'll kill me anyway. :biggrin:

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 21:08
Now THIS is why I took 2 years getting to know who the people are on here before I joined.
Very wise decision. :)

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:26
That's all well and good. I don't think that because you're a trash collector (they make shitloads of money by the way) you should be expected to take crap for wages and survive. Life is only unfair because of the atrocities that man commits to his fellow man.

Have you ever observed nature AT ALL?

How fair is it when a furry bunny gets eaten by a Fox or a innocent bambi gets mauled and devoured alive by a pack of hungry wolves?

How fair is it getting ate by a shark cause you wanted to go for a swim?

How fair is it getting struck by lightning, or killed in an avalanche, an earthquate, a landslide, a Tsunami, or my personal favorite- a volcano?(natures own multi-megaton range thermonuclear weapon).

There is NOTHING fair about life, it is in fact INHERENTLY unfair. That it is FAIR AT ALL is only because of the KINDNESS in men's hearts.

You really do have a peculiar outlook....

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:27
Yes. Two full time minimum wage jobs. That makes sense. Who needs sleep anyway?

The time to think about such things is BEFORE you mess your life up by having unwanted puppies and kittens.

Remember that fella. It will serve you well in life.

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:30
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. How about this. Next time I see you on the streets, I'll shoot you in front of a cop, take your money and then kill your family. Also, the cop won't do anything about it, and neither will the entire justice system. Sound good to you?

Sounds like the Sudan.

IOW my friend, it sounds like Reality.

I suggest you learn to accept it. YOU will not be the one to change it, i assure you MUCH better men have tried... ;)

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:35
I wasn't suggesting something like communism. My point is that while capitalism is good, why can't people do what they can to see to it that the less wealthy population is at least well off enough to live their lives.

Because there is good AND evil in the hearts of men.

A flowery way of saying that life is not fair.

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:38
The term Gaijin exists for a reason and it ain't about being fair.

Hehe, Foriegn Devil.

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:40
The collective being Japan.

I'm saying that why can't people just be like that towards the people of the society they live in.

Where the pressure to succeed is so high that failure leads to scorn which often leads to suicide(before or after failure depending on the individual)?

I like our society just fine thanx.

Bill
28 May 06,, 21:42
WAKE UP! My point is that they could, and should.

But don't.

And won't.

Ever.

Reality- it's what's for dinner.
~Me.

TopHatter
28 May 06,, 23:08
Ladies and Gentleman,
I'm afraid Nemesis will not be joining us, for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

And just in case anybody else is thinking of creating multiple screennames....don't. ;)

Bill
28 May 06,, 23:13
Ladies and Gentleman,
I'm afraid Nemesis will not be joining us, for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

And just in case anybody else is thinking of creating multiple screennames....don't. ;)

What'd he do?

I missed it?

LOL...

Ahsan
29 May 06,, 00:54
The place is going fine, the moderating team is perfect! Just keep it the way it is.

T-bone
29 May 06,, 01:07
Ladies and Gentleman,
I'm afraid Nemesis will not be joining us, for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

And just in case anybody else is thinking of creating multiple screennames....don't. ;)He did that on INTP Central as well.

Parihaka
29 May 06,, 04:06
A mother and father being migrant workers and their family is fine?

A mother and father working 2 lower than minimum wage jobs each and their family is fine?

American Gov't and Comparative Politics Class:
We did a project on this. We had a spouse, and 2 children, a horrible tragedy had struck, and we both worked full time minimum wage jobs and we had to find out how to support a family. The conclusion the class came to? This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc.

Now, that's MINIMUM wage. How would we pull that off with LOWER than minimum wage?I'm rather bemused by your social studies class. Your project conclusion found that "This was ridiculous, there was absolutely no way you could ever expect to support a family without giving up either electricity, water, clothes, food, etc."
And yet earlier you've stated that you've seen people in your neighbourhood mowing lawns and implying through your arguments (as you used them as your starting example) that they were supporting families.
So on the one hand you use your school project as evidence that it can't be done but cite real life examples where it IS being done. What's it to be?

Parihaka
29 May 06,, 04:09
Again, my point stands. Nature may not be fair, but we have the ability to level the playing field, so why shouldn't we? Ever heard of Japan? Their society is alive and well.
Japan a level playing field? Do you inhabit the same planet as me? Do you know or have you ever met any resident Japanese?

Parihaka
29 May 06,, 04:15
Well every society has it's downpoints. I wasn't about to paint it as the city on the hill. You'll find that I'm much more of the opinion that people should willingly help eachother out, through donation or volunteer work or whatever, rather than forcing people to help out through taxes.

My example of Japan was simply to state that people don't have to be assholes to eachother. I have a friend of mine whose family moved to Japan. He's a violinist, and he was in my orchestra class. His family had lived in New York and had gotten tired of the dog eat dog atmosphere, so they moved to The Hamptons (M21Sniper: ;)) expecting people to be nicer. Basically they found the same attitude, masked as a sense of self entitlement. So his family decided to move to Japan. I didn't understand why at first.

Anyway, my friend was upset about it, but he's doing well. I went to visit him there once. We were sitting on street corner, and he had his violin in it's case with him. He asked if we wanted to go get something to eat. I said yes, so we walked across the street to the McDonald's. I said to him "Dude, you just left your $4,500 violin on the streets of Tokyo. What the hell is wrong with you?"

He looked at me and said "Dude. This is Japan."

I also heard on the radio once, a story of a man who had lost his wallet on the JR (Japanese Railway). He thought it was long gone, until he got a call from the JR. A man had turned in his wallet, and that they had to appologize. They appologized because they were shortstaffed that day, and there weren't enough people around to spare one of the employees to hand deliver the wallet to his house. They wanted to know if it would be too terribly inconvenient for him to go and pick it up himself.Ah I see, you're equating Japans supposed lack of crime with 'fairness'. Japan is the openly most socially competitively aggressive country in the world. Bar none. If you don't believe me, look at the child suicide statistics.

Parihaka
29 May 06,, 04:18
WAKE UP! My point is that they could, and should.
and yet, somehow, aren't :confused: :rolleyes:

Parihaka
29 May 06,, 04:23
Ladies and Gentleman,
I'm afraid Nemesis will not be joining us, for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

And just in case anybody else is thinking of creating multiple screennames....don't. ;)
Oh BUGGER, sucked again. LOL the deliberately condescending tone is the usual giveaway I suppose. :biggrin:

Shek
30 May 06,, 04:04
Ladies and Gentleman,
I'm afraid Nemesis will not be joining us, for the rest of his life. :rolleyes:

And just in case anybody else is thinking of creating multiple screennames....don't. ;)

What was his sockpuppet's name, or did you catch him in the act?

TopHatter
30 May 06,, 04:17
What was his sockpuppet's name, or did you catch him in the act?
Caught in the act. Appropriately named Interruption ;)

Bill
30 May 06,, 04:21
LOL.

Well, it was a good immediate suppression TH.

Nice shootin'.

Shek
30 May 06,, 04:35
LOL.

Well, it was a good immediate suppression TH.

Nice shootin'.

Immediate suppression? I'd call it is a successful Copperhead mission - clean and over before it even started.

Bill
30 May 06,, 06:45
Immediate suppression? I'd call it is a successful Copperhead mission - clean and over before it even started.

LOL...

T-bone
30 May 06,, 18:02
Caught in the act. Appropriately named Interruption ;)
:biggrin: From now on I am going to call him Interruption on INTPc.

Johnekgun
29 Jun 06,, 20:31
I certainly read more about world affars here than I do on other forums I frequent. I like it just the way it is.

And a big thank you to all that make it what it is.

Julie
29 Dec 06,, 21:41
I certainly read more about world affars here than I do on other forums I frequent. I like it just the way it is.

And a big thank you to all that make it what it is.You are quite welcome. :)

Ray
08 Jan 07,, 17:08
He is banned!

Must have had buttons for eyes.

I see World affairs all over!

Shek
09 Jan 07,, 03:05
Must have had buttons for eyes.

Sir,
The dog chewed the buttons off!

Ironduke
09 Jan 07,, 03:08
I've taken the liberty of purchasing the domain http://www.strategicaffairs.org. We plan on using both URLs as fully functional co-domains indefinitely.

Stan187
13 Jan 07,, 00:23
I've taken the liberty of purchasing the domain http://www.strategicaffairs.org. We plan on using both URLs as fully functional co-domains indefinitely.

LoL I hope it wasn't because of this munchkin's protests that world affairs are not discussed here

Ironduke
13 Jan 07,, 02:06
LoL I hope it wasn't because of this munchkin's protests that world affairs are not discussed here
World affairs are discussed here.

Really, world affairs is a synonym for international relations.

Definition of international relations, from Wikipedia:

International Relations (IR), a branch of political science, is the study of foreign affairs of and relations among states within the international system, including the roles of states, inter-governmental organizations (IGOs), non-governmental organizations (NGOs), and multinational corporations (MNCs). It is both an academic and public policy field, and can be either positive or normative as it both seeks to analyze as well as formulate foreign policy.

Apart from political science, IR draws upon such diverse fields as economics, history, law, philosophy, geography, sociology, anthropology, psychology, and cultural studies. It involves a diverse range of issues, from globalization and its impacts on societies and state sovereignty to ecological sustainability, nuclear proliferation, nationalism, economic development, terrorism, organized crime, human security and human rights.

Just because we have a narrower subset of "world affairs" discussed here than otherwise may be implied by the forum's name does not make it wholly inconsistent with the name itself, as the sheer diversity of the subjects that are covered under the definition of "world affairs" (or more accurately, international relations) is far too diverse a subject than can be adequately covered in a single discussion forum, and diversifying ourselves to cater to every subject that can be covered under IR would dilute the subject matter and make us just another forum about anything and everything.

Stan187
13 Jan 07,, 04:52
World affairs are discussed here.

Really, world affairs is a synonym for international relations.


Oh I know, I was saying that I hope that no one actually took that kid's stupid outbursts seriously. I'm not in any way disputing that world affairs are discussed here.