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  • Czechs turn down US fighter jets

    Czechs turn down US fighter jets

    The Czech government has decided to begin negotiations over the lease of 14 Anglo-Swedish Gripen fighter planes to replace their old Soviet-built MiG-21s.

    This is the second time the Czechs have chosen to go for the Gripen, with an option to return them after five years, in preference to American-made F-16s.

    The Gripens are relatively cheap and technologically up-to-date, without being excessively sophisticated.

    The Americans were offering F-16s, but only an older version from the 1980s.

    Last year, the Czech government cancelled a plan to buy Gripen fighters, claiming it could no longer afford the cost after that summer's serious floods.

    The idea now is to lease 14 aircraft, but Wednesday's decision is not a firm commitment - only a decision to begin negotiations.

    Even so, the opposition defence spokesman, Petr Necas, is talking of a "hasty decision". Not much sense of urgency, then.

    As the local Lidove Noviny newspaper put it: "This country will not be directly threatened anyway in the next 15 to 20 years".

    Polish deal

    Some observers point out that with over 3,000 machines in total, Nato, which the Czechs joined four years ago, is hardly short of warplanes.

    They ask whether countries like the Czech Republic should be busying themselves with new aircraft, when most officers still cannot communicate effectively in English - Nato's language of command.

    On the other hand, modern warplanes are a status symbol and a sign that the Central European military are freeing themselves of reliance on Soviet-designed hardware.

    Hungary also opted to lease 14 Gripens two years ago. It won an attractive "off-set" package, whereby all of the aircraft's costs will be spent on technology transfers and other projects to boost Hungarian industry.

    Earlier this year, Poland, the largest of the Central European states, decided to buy 48 American F-16 fighters in a deal worth $3.5bn.

    The decision went down badly in France, which had been promoting its own Mirage fighter plane.

    Economical

    It was seen as another example of Poland's pro-American orientation.

    The American government is granting a $3.8bn loan - while American companies, including the F-16's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin, have pledged to invest more than $6bn in Poland over the next decade.

    It is said that the Polish F-16s will be the latest prototype version.

    The big question mark hangs over the issue of running costs.

    According to the Czechs, the Gripen promises to be much more economical in the longer term.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3331889.stm
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  • #2
    It is said that the Polish F-16s will be the latest prototype version
    Anybody have an idea on what this means in terms of actual hardware? Are these Polish F-16s more advanced than the USAF -16s?
    Anybody have any figures on the current production rate of the -16 and if the USAF is still buying them? I would imagine they are, if only to replace attrition.
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TopHatter
      Anybody have an idea on what this means in terms of actual hardware? Are these Polish F-16s more advanced than the USAF -16s?
      Anybody have any figures on the current production rate of the -16 and if the USAF is still buying them? I would imagine they are, if only to replace attrition.
      Almost all F-16s we've been offering overseas lately that are new, not used, are more advanced that what we currently have, I believe.
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

      Comment


      • #4
        Is nobody thinking about possible technology-transfer problems? Not that I mind the Poles having advanced F-16s, far from it. They are a loyal US ally and deserve the best.
        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TopHatter
          Is nobody thinking about possible technology-transfer problems? Not that I mind the Poles having advanced F-16s, far from it. They are a loyal US ally and deserve the best.
          I'm not worried about the Poles, I'd be more worried about Arab countries we supply.
          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, let's face it. Most of these Middle East countries don't properly maintain their hi-tech Western-supplied equipment, let alone train properly with it.
            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not so much worried how Arab countries in the future may use the weapons we sell them, but who they may give the tech to.
              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

              Comment


              • #8
                You are very correct about that. I should have mentioned that :doh!
                “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Anyway, it would be nice if the Czechs bought a couple squadrons of JSF's...
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sure it would nice, but could they afford to maintain them?
                    Well, that's a silly question since the US would probably subsidize the whole friggin deal, along with a nice juicy support and parts package.
                    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The JSF is supposed to be a very low maintenance aircraft.
                      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You could be right at that, but don't certain parts have to be eventually replaced outright?
                        “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Certainly.

                          One of the advantages of the JSF though is that many of it's parts are already in production for other US fighter jets. :)
                          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Really? Most US planes are the very flower of late 1970s and early 1980s design. So many of the computer chips in them are so far obsolete and expensive (I know, I've had to track them down for purchase!) that I would think the last thing you want in a JSF is alot of commonality with venerable systems like the Eagle and the Falcon.
                            “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TopHatter
                              Really? Most US planes are the very flower of late 1970s and early 1980s design. So many of the computer chips in them are so far obsolete and expensive (I know, I've had to track them down for purchase!) that I would think the last thing you want in a JSF is alot of commonality with venerable systems like the Eagle and the Falcon.
                              I can't recall offhand what exactly the parts being used in the JSF that are the same as other US fighter jets, but I do know one off the top of my head, I believe the wheels are the same as the ones used on the F-14.
                              "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                              Comment

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