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  • Moslem Brits Way Down in Education

    Education in Britain, where opportunities to all communities are equal, is indeed an eyeopener as an index to the basic intelligence of the peoples.

    There has been many debates here over why the Moslems are lagging behind the others in social and economic development in India. Many have opined that it is because Moslems, as a whole, have not been given the benefits of a first rate education and many rather inane reasons, including discrimination, have been aired.

    For arguments sake, one can say fair enough.

    However, in the UK, it is a country of the whites and ruled by the whites and surely they do not discriminate on whether one is from India or from Timbuctoo or whether one is a Moslem, Christian, Hindu, Buddhists or a plain pagan! The education opportunities are on a level playing field.

    These British statistics clearly indicates that if there is any discrimination, it is by the Almighty and nothing else!

    Thus, it puts paid to all controversies as to why the Moslems lag behind.

    Unless you have the basic intelligence, unless you have aptitude, unless you are interested in making something of your life rather than wasting time in pursuit of activities that are not suited to the environment that you live in, you shall remain a no-gooder!

    I do not subscribe to the idea that the failing is genetic!

    The chart is from:

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=268

    It also says:

    GCSE performance
    In 1999, a higher proportion of girls than boys in each ethnic group achieved five or more GCSEs at grades A*-C (or equivalent).

    Indian pupils are more likely to get these qualifications than other ethnic group, with 66 per cent of Indian girls and 54 per cent of Indian boys doing so in 1999. This contrasts with only 37 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi girls and 22 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi boys.

    Of those who achieved five or more A*-C grade GCSEs, only half of Black pupils achieved very high results (8 or more A*-C grades) whereas at least two-thirds of all other ethnic groups achieved this level.

    Between 1997 and 1999 all ethnic groups, with the exception of Pakistani and Bangladeshis, saw a rise in achievement of five or more A*-C grade GCSEs by sixteen year olds. This meant that the gap between the lowest and highest achieving ethnic groups widened over this time period.

    School exclusions
    In 2000/01, Black pupils were more likely to be permanently excluded from schools in England than children from any other ethnic group.

    The highest permanent exclusion rates were among children belonging to the ‘Other Black’ group (40 in every 10 thousand pupils) and Black Caribbean pupils (38 in every 10 thousand). This compared with 13 in every 10 thousand White children. The lowest rate of permanent exclusions was for Indian pupils (3 in every 10 thousand).

    For all ethnic groups, the rate of permanent exclusions was higher for boys than for girls.

    Highest qualification
    In 2001/02 people from some minority ethnic groups in the United Kingdom were more likely to have degrees (or equivalent) than White people. Those most likely to have degrees were Chinese people, Indians, Black Africans and Other Asians.

    Among men, Black Caribbeans were the least likely to have degrees (8 per cent). Among women, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were the least likely to have degrees (7 per cent).

    Despite some ethnic groups being more likely than the White population to have a degree, they were also more likely to have no qualifications at all.

    In particular Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were most likely to be unqualified. Nearly half (48 per cent) of Bangladeshi women and 40 per cent of Bangladeshi men had no qualifications. Among Pakistanis, 40 per cent of women and 27 per cent of men had no qualifications.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Ray; 09 May 06,, 08:46.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  • #2
    In particular Pakistanis and Bangladeshis were most likely to be unqualified. Nearly half (48 per cent) of Bangladeshi women and 40 per cent of Bangladeshi men had no qualifications. Among Pakistanis, 40 per cent of women and 27 per cent of men had no qualifications.
    Well even educated arent much better. London bombings showed it.

    BTW, I am little disappointed with indian boys performance.
    Hala Madrid!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ray
      I do not subscribe to the idea that the failing is genetic!
      Some background, Sir. Alot of this have to do with being immigrants from a foreign land with little or no money. All they have is a chance to make a better life than the one back home. Hence, they grab the chance and hold on to it with dear life. It's not uncommon for them to work 15 hour days , 7 days a week for decades. That work ethic often spills over to their children and their school work. Also that education is the key to being better than what they had at home. To immigrants, education is worth its weight in gold.

      Two or three generations removed from the immigrant landing and you will see the percentages as the same as the local populace; having not seen the hardship endured before.

      Comment


      • #4
        this is discussed every year....look the officer of engineers remembers it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
          Some background, Sir. Alot of this have to do with being immigrants from a foreign land with little or no money. All they have is a chance to make a better life than the one back home. Hence, they grab the chance and hold on to it with dear life. It's not uncommon for them to work 15 hour days , 7 days a week for decades. That work ethic often spills over to their children and their school work. Also that education is the key to being better than what they had at home. To immigrants, education is worth its weight in gold.

          Two or three generations removed from the immigrant landing and you will see the percentages as the same as the local populace; having not seen the hardship endured before.
          Colonel,

          The Indians are also immigrants as are the Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

          Or are they natural white natives?

          You will notice that the Indians are doing better than the native whites.

          Therefore, the contention that immigrants don't do well is not correct. It is just a question of intelligence, aptitude and the desire to excel.

          Note that the report also speaks of the Chinese doing well.

          Are the Chinese natural white citizens?



          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

          HAKUNA MATATA

          Comment


          • #6
            majority of the indians didn't come from mirpur, after it was washed out by the mangla dam, the demand from back home was a lot lower nas back home did actaully have homes....unlike some of us.

            thier is gradual change, in the upward direction, but this will take time.

            6-7 years ago to send your daughter to uni within our community was seen as a negative, today it's a must, everyones trying to get thier daughters into uni as well as thier sons.

            then you still have the idiots who's kids barely go to school until they are 16.

            Comment


            • #7
              Just to add a little bit on what you said, being from a family whose closely tied to studying in America, theres a lot of truth in that.

              The American education system for a foreigner is VERY expensive. You have to pay 4x the amount. Usually students travel, get accomodations, a new car, pay for food and of course tuition and books through the earnings of their parents. These students usually get jobs and in the end have to neglect their studies a whole lot because almost none of them stick to the 20hrs per week limit. In fact they work a lot more than an American kid would've.

              The parents cannot afford it always. The immigration departments in the Embassies do take their bank statements into consideration before giving the visas, but not their situations, which usually always change from time to time.

              The good thing is these kids actually finish their education, avg GPAs but it gets done. The richer foreign kids though sometimes get higher GPAs, they're also the ones that never get to finish their degrees in the allotted 4+1 years of time.

              So its very possible that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are just not all coming to the UK/US with as much money as the other foreigners are. Does their faith compel them to be so? I think not.

              It'd be interesting to see what naturalized Americans and British Muslim kids are scoring.

              Comment


              • #8
                .

                I thought the discussion was about School Education in the UK, and not about University Education in the US.

                Ok, Asim ………… You may relax.

                I have noted your social status as one encompassing coming from an US University educated family with a 10 bathroom villa. ;) .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by platinum786
                  majority of the indians didn't come from mirpur, after it was washed out by the mangla dam, the demand from back home was a lot lower nas back home did actaully have homes....unlike some of us.

                  thier is gradual change, in the upward direction, but this will take time.

                  6-7 years ago to send your daughter to uni within our community was seen as a negative, today it's a must, everyones trying to get thier daughters into uni as well as thier sons.

                  then you still have the idiots who's kids barely go to school until they are 16.

                  You think Mirpur or Pakistan alone has a dam.

                  Have you heard of India's Bhakra Nangal Dam?

                  It flooded a whole lot of area and 37 villages went underwater and others partially submerged.

                  People from these areas are the maximum number who are there in the UK.

                  So what has dams got to do with basic intelligence or desire to improve?

                  Therefore, why bring up irrelevant issues?

                  Its just that education is not your forte. That's all.

                  Even the sole Pakistani Nobel Prize winner is an Ahmediya (a non Moslem as you claim).

                  Heard of the Mohajir (Moslems who went from India to Pakistan)?

                  How come they bagged all the jobs in Pakistan?

                  Seen your spellings?

                  Seen your sentence constructions?

                  It has been pointed out many a time, but you just don't bother since you think you know all and you are the best.

                  Seek and ye shall find!




                  "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                  I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                  HAKUNA MATATA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by platinum786
                    majority of the indians didn't come from mirpur, after it was washed out by the mangla dam, the demand from back home was a lot lower nas back home did actaully have homes....unlike some of us.
                    If the pernicious effects of the Mangla Dam, which was completed in 1967, is still visible in 1999, the Pakistan Government has much to answer for.

                    I think the Mirpuri’s should band together and demand GOP provide finance for compensatory remedial classes in the UK.

                    Damn, the Government of Pakistan seems to have really done over the people of Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir.

                    I never knew the people of Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir had been reduced to this.

                    Fancy that, such trauma that even in a foreign land 35 years after the fact , children not born during the dam construction are tramautised and suffer academically.

                    the demand from back home was a lot lower nas back home did actaully have homes....unlike some of us.
                    Perhaps because English is not my mother tongue, the meaning of this bit has completely eluded me.

                    What are you trying to say?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hari_Om
                      .

                      I thought the discussion was about School Education in the UK, and not about University Education in the US.

                      Ok, Asim ………… You may relax.

                      I have noted your social status as one encompassing coming from an US University educated family with a 10 bathroom villa. ;) .
                      awww you got me man!

                      Just saying that I've got first hand knowledge.

                      :( I live in a 2 bedroom + hall flat... Love it! Lived here all my life!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ray,

                        Thats a bit unfair. ;) .

                        We know the heavy hand of the Pakistani Government is very different from the heavy hand of democratic Governments.

                        Let us appreciate the trauma of Pakistan Occupied Kashmir and support the position that just compensation be paid to its victims by GOP.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ray
                          You think Mirpur or Pakistan alone has a dam.

                          Have you heard of India's Bhakra Nangal Dam?

                          It flooded a whole lot of area and 37 villages went underwater and others partially submerged.

                          People from these areas are the maximum number who are there in the UK.

                          So what has dams got to do with basic intelligence or desire to improve?

                          Therefore, why bring up irrelevant issues?

                          Its just that education is not your forte. That's all.

                          Even the sole Pakistani Nobel Prize winner is an Ahmediya (a non Moslem as you claim).

                          Heard of the Mohajir (Moslems who went from India to Pakistan)?

                          How come they bagged all the jobs in Pakistan?

                          Seen your spellings?

                          Seen your sentence constructions?

                          It has been pointed out many a time, but you just don't bother since you think you know all and you are the best.

                          Seek and ye shall find!


                          One of my Indian Professors remarked something of the same. His comment was "Pakistani girls are only good for cooking and doing household chores". He made that comment to his son, who was dating a Pakistani girl and word got out and spread like wildfire.

                          The next semester Every Pakistani girl in college took up his courses and after scoring As, at the end of the semester, wrote about that very comment in his evaluations. He got so much heat from the administration that he appologized in class. This was a super snobbish, strict Advanced calculus and other advanced maths courses professor.

                          As for the mohajir thing, yes the Indians were always better educated, again because of opportunities not because of genetics. In my father's family only he got to goto college and hes the one whose by far doing the best, financially. He went to college because his "mohajir" of 5 brothers and 2 sisters gave up their education and all contributed towards my father's education. he got the opportunity and he studied the rest of the brothers didn't (or sacrificed).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The way you make it sound it appears that people from Asia are basically fools and only do well because of the magnanimity and political correctness of the US.

                            You insult the many Asians who have done well on their own steam!

                            In case you or your folks have not experienced the same, please do not use it as the general template.

                            I take serious exception to this servant like mentality or kowtowing!

                            Asians, well at least Indians, ask for no favours and we take what is unto Caesar!

                            [QUOTE]
                            Originally posted by Asim Aquil
                            Just to add a little bit on what you said, being from a family whose closely tied to studying in America, theres a lot of truth in that.
                            More than half my family is in the US. Hardly any truth. Hard work and basic intelligence is the key.


                            The American education system for a foreigner is VERY expensive. You have to pay 4x the amount. Usually students travel, get accomodations, a new car, pay for food and of course tuition and books through the earnings of their parents. These students usually get jobs and in the end have to neglect their studies a whole lot because almost none of them stick to the 20hrs per week limit. In fact they work a lot more than an American kid would've.
                            If your mind is on getting educated, then there is no big deal. If you want to also want to have Rockefeller's lifestyle, then it a real BIG Deal!

                            But then my folks have all gone through Ivy League Univs and got US scholarships. Obviously, they were intelligent to be able to compete and get scholarships.

                            Maybe you people were not that fortunate.

                            Many Indians I know who rough it out and still do well.

                            The issue is basic intelligence!

                            Just basic intelligence, unshackled from basic dimwittedness or expecting freebies and compensation being foreign dimwits!

                            I am all for standing on merits and not asking for doles or begging!

                            The parents cannot afford it always. The immigration departments in the Embassies do take their bank statements into consideration before giving the visas, but not their situations, which usually always change from time to time.
                            Why should the immigration dept bother how much of money you father has? The US is a Land of Opportunity and not a "country of Connections". You seem to be more concerned about how well connected and how rich is the family. Heavens, in the US, very poor immigrants have done well! And quite a few from nations where connections matter have done ridiculously stupidly! In India, one does not look at bank balances of one's father. Maybe Indians have not been that useless. And anyway, one is going for education and not to settle down or ask for political asylum as was the case of a certain country!

                            The good thing is these kids actually finish their education, avg GPAs but it gets done. The richer foreign kids though sometimes get higher GPAs, they're also the ones that never get to finish their degrees in the allotted 4+1 years of time.
                            I don't know but that must be the Pakistani experience.

                            Being rich or otherwise hardly has any connection!

                            So its very possible that Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are just not all coming to the UK/US with as much money as the other foreigners are. Does their faith compel them to be so? I think not.
                            Intelligence cannot be bought. So, lets not as usual live in denial. So everyone is bad and you all are getting a raw deal, the whole thing is stacked against the Paksitanis and Bangladeshis, right? When will you grow up?

                            Are you suggesting that the Indians who go to the US/UK carry Fort Knox one their heads when they go there?

                            What lame excuses for being the failure that Pakistani and Bangladeshis are!

                            Who are you trying to fool with these sob stories.

                            Check the number of successful Indians in the UK including Indian Moslems and compare it with Paksitani and Bangaldeshi Moslems.

                            Friend, in India you have to slog it out. Your father is not material. We understand hard work and diligence and not leave everything to God!


                            It'd be interesting to see what naturalized Americans and British Muslim kids are scoring.
                            Its up there for you to see!
                            Last edited by Ray; 09 May 06,, 19:27.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Asim Aquil

                              As for the mohajir thing, yes the Indians were always better educated, again because of opportunities not because of genetics.

                              As usual you know not what you write.

                              Your inferiority complex overpowers you and you assume what someone else is writing; and that assumption is always in the negative meaning!

                              Who the hell has stated that it is because of genetics?

                              This is what I have written:

                              I do not subscribe to the idea that the failing is genetic!
                              Either your grasp of English is abysmally poor or you are just dimwitted. In my sentence I have stated that I don't agree that the issue is because of genetics.

                              You assume (because of slow comprehension power maybe) what I have written and then you go running to Momma!

                              For Christ sake, or if you wish for Allah's sake, keep your wits about you.

                              Stop trying to change the meaning of my words to suit your evil and deceitful purpose!

                              And Stop making noise like a box of frogs!

                              And do keep your personal life stories to the minimum since one would not like to comment on that since you are just trying to get some free publicity and one does not want to be personal.

                              I am still to know how your uncle was the ruler (King) of Jhansi. This is interesting since Jhansi was a city that was in the Kingdom of the Scindias (Hindus) and there is no mention in the history of any Kingdom of Jhansi except for the Hindu Queen Rani of Jhansi!

                              I could be wrong. So, let have the history rewritten to fill up the gap in my knowledge!
                              Last edited by Ray; 09 May 06,, 19:12.


                              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                              HAKUNA MATATA

                              Comment

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