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rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 01:54
The below three blurbs are form CNN, Globalsecurity and Inside the Pentagon respectively.

FAS TOE's agree with GS on #'s of personnel and with Inside the Pentagon on the # of armor and helos.

Anyone able to deconflict this disparate data?

The regiment's 5,200 soldiers make up a highly mobile force equipped with more than 320 armored vehicles, including M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and more than 80 aircraft, including AH-64 Apache attack helicopters.
#############################################
It has over 320 armored vehicles (M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles) and over 80 aircraft (including the AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter). The regiment has a total strength of over 4,700 soldier
###########################
The regiment boasts 123 M1A2 main battle tanks, 125 M3A2 Bradley fighting vehicles, 16 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, 24 OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helos and 15 UH-60L troop-carrying helos, among other weapon and support platforms.

Shek
23 Apr 06,, 02:52
The below three blurbs are form CNN, Globalsecurity and Inside the Pentagon respectively.

FAS TOE's agree with GS on #'s of personnel and with Inside the Pentagon on the # of armor and helos.

Anyone able to deconflict this disparate data?

The regiment's 5,200 soldiers make up a highly mobile force equipped with more than 320 armored vehicles, including M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and more than 80 aircraft, including AH-64 Apache attack helicopters.
#############################################
It has over 320 armored vehicles (M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles) and over 80 aircraft (including the AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter). The regiment has a total strength of over 4,700 soldier
###########################
The regiment boasts 123 M1A2 main battle tanks, 125 M3A2 Bradley fighting vehicles, 16 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, 24 OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helos and 15 UH-60L troop-carrying helos, among other weapon and support platforms.

Just a guess, but maybe they have some troops of light cav with M1114s?

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 04:43
The below three blurbs are form CNN, Globalsecurity and Inside the Pentagon respectively.

FAS TOE's agree with GS on #'s of personnel and with Inside the Pentagon on the # of armor and helos.

Anyone able to deconflict this disparate data?

The regiment's 5,200 soldiers make up a highly mobile force equipped with more than 320 armored vehicles, including M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles, and more than 80 aircraft, including AH-64 Apache attack helicopters.
#############################################
It has over 320 armored vehicles (M1A1 Abrams tanks and M3A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles) and over 80 aircraft (including the AH-64 Apache Attack Helicopter). The regiment has a total strength of over 4,700 soldier
###########################
The regiment boasts 123 M1A2 main battle tanks, 125 M3A2 Bradley fighting vehicles, 16 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, 24 OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helos and 15 UH-60L troop-carrying helos, among other weapon and support platforms.
What are you looking for exact numbers?

One thing is 3acr has m1a2 not m1a1.

Let me know what your looking for and I can help you out since I'm with the regiment.

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 04:51
The last of the three matches my quick count on top of my head. Not too sure about the aircraft. As far as the numbers of armor vehicles, it does not say anything about the m109's. Throw that into the mix and it should get closer.

Maj,
No sir no light scouts in the regiment.

rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 14:16
Tankervet:

"Let me know what your looking for and I can help you out since I'm with the regiment."

Im looking for a TOE the one on FAS is 10 years old although it seems quite accurate and is a bit difficult to use compared to other TOE's Ive come across.

And does match the info from the third blurb I posted with the exception of 4 EH-60 Helos plus the 4700 manning level.

Im trying to reconcile the the 320+ vs 250 armored vehicles difference, the 80+ vs 60 helo discrepancy and the 5200 vs 4700 personnel count.

I dont see 500 extra men covering a 70+ armored vehicle and 20+ helo increase but then in the article below it states the lower equipment #'s but the higher personnel total:

"McMaster argues that as part of the Army’s new force concept, his 5,200-troop regiment not only should be maintained into the future, but become a model for more such brigade-sized units. The cavalry regiment might act as a facilitator for the swifter and more agile UAs, he says.

The regiment boasts 123 M1A2 main battle tanks, 125 M3A2 Bradley fighting vehicles, 16 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, 24 OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helos and 15 UH-60L troop-carrying helos, among other weapon and support platforms."

Lately Ive been interested in comparing organizational structures along with persoonel and equipment fits of past,present and future Army/USMC formations.

In particular the differences/similarities of ACR/MEU/BLT/MEB/UA/BCT organizations.

I never realized before the total lack of Infantry in the ACR.

It is as the below article, which I quoted above, states a quite "unique" organization.

Thanks for any help, info or direction.

Rick


Inside The Pentagon
by Elaine M. Grossman
February 10, 2005
Pg. 1

[Reprinted by permission of Inside Washington Publishers. This article may not be reproduced or redistributed, in part or in whole, without express permission of the publisher. Copyright 2004, Inside Washington Publishers. For more information and exclusive news, go to: http://defense.iwpnewsstand.com. Every Tuesday and Thursday, visit the INSIDER, http://defense.iwpnewsstand.com/insider.asp, free from Inside Washington Publishers.]

Does the modular brigade need armed recon facilitators?
ARMY CAVALRY REGIMENT MAY BE LAST BASTION IN ‘FIGHT FOR INFORMATION’

Army cavalry officers are engaged in a heated debate with others in the service — and the Defense Department more broadly — over the question of whether U.S. forces will be required to “fight for information” into the future, or if instead advanced sensors and computers will render that longstanding mission obsolete.

At service headquarters and the Joint Staff, nearly all contemplation of the nature of future combat centers on such concepts as employing “network-centric warfare” and achieving “full-spectrum dominance” through “information superiority.” The Army has built these ideas into its notional force of the future, in which the service reorganizes around brigade-size units that are to be “modular” and operate more independently.

But even amid a growing swell of excitement throughout the services for these “transformational” ideas, Army cavalry officers largely shun the catch phrases in favor of embracing an old-fashioned approach they call the “fight for information.”

Perhaps nowhere has that view coalesced more than at Ft. Carson, CO. The Colorado Springs base may be just a two-hour drive from Denver, but in some respects officers serving with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment there could be light years away from many of their Pentagon counterparts.

Drawing off lessons U.S. troops have learned from combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, cavalry leaders — many of them now war veterans themselves — say the best understanding U.S. forces have developed about insurgents and other enemy fighters has come only after making direct contact in battle. Before forcing an enemy’s hand, it is often difficult to understand his true intentions, motives, morale or capabilities, these officers say. Wartime lessons show that reliably predicting an adversary’s behavior prior to engaging in battle could be impossible, they say.

That view may be regarded as near heresy among those who believe advanced sensors and computers can someday soon virtually eliminate the fog of war by erasing uncertainty about an adversary’s stance and perhaps even his plans.

“We must acknowledge the fact that forces will have to continue to fight for information and we must continue to organize, train and equip formations to do so,” Col. H.R. McMaster, the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment commander, wrote last summer in an e-mail widely circulated in the Army. Enemy countermeasures like concealment, dispersion, deception and intermingling with civilian populations will continue to vex America’s advanced technologies, he wrote.

“The information we desire most about the enemy — his real fighting power and his intentions — lie in the psychological and human dimensions rather than the physical,” McMaster wrote. “We must … acknowledge that the enemy plays a role in the future course of events and recognize that the enemy will develop countermeasures (tactical as well as technological) to any capability we develop.”

Despite that view, the Army’s initial concept for modular “units of action” assumes technology will offer troops such a clear picture of the enemy before a battle begins that these new brigades will be able to operate with near impunity, assaulting at times and places of their own choosing, according to an issue paper McMaster wrote in November 2003 while completing a fellowship at Stanford University in California.

The unit of action — or “UA” — under development and experimentation by the Army “is intended to be a ‘system of systems’ that is ‘empowered by dominant situational understanding resident in a vibrant knowledge network,’” McMaster wrote in the paper, quoting a 2003 Army posture statement.

But trimmed down for quick deployment and agility, the UA will lack an adequate ability to probe enemy disposition and intentions, or protect itself when surprised by enemy attack, McMaster argues.

Enter the cavalry regiment. The “3rd ACR” — as McMaster’s unit is known for short — is the last of its kind, with the Army last year converting the 2nd Cavalry Regiment into a light “Stryker Brigade.” Among the capabilities that make the 3rd ACR unique is that every soldier — regardless of mission specialty — is trained as a reconnaissance “scout,” able to collect and disseminate intelligence. Further, air-ground capabilities and support functions are built into the regiment, training and operating year-round with one another.

McMaster argues that as part of the Army’s new force concept, his 5,200-troop regiment not only should be maintained into the future, but become a model for more such brigade-sized units. The cavalry regiment might act as a facilitator for the swifter and more agile UAs, he says.

The regiment boasts 123 M1A2 main battle tanks, 125 M3A2 Bradley fighting vehicles, 16 AH-64 Apache attack helicopters, 24 OH-58D Kiowa reconnaissance helos and 15 UH-60L troop-carrying helos, among other weapon and support platforms.

“A cavalry formation, with its integrated air and ground capabilities — the mobile protected firepower that we have — compensates for the small [UA] packages that we can put out widely dispersed,” McMaster told Inside the Pentagon in a Jan. 7 interview at his home. The regiment has “the ability to integrate air-ground [capabilities] and conduct logistical support … We could secure those wide areas,” he said.

Each of the regiment’s battalion commanders — called “squadron” commanders in the cavalry — can draw off of not only the normal complement of company-level elements, but also an organic howitzer battery they train with all the time. And each squadron has its own aviation and tank companies.

“In a typical divisional brigade, they’ll task-organize when they go.

They’ll bring in tanks, and they’ll give up some of their Bradley vehicles to that other brigade,” Maj. Robert Short, the 3rd ACR intelligence director, told ITP in a Jan. 6 interview. “We already have that mix put together. It’s already tied in and our guys are always operating together.”

The ability to carry out even some traditionally depot-level maintenance on aircraft and vehicles within the regiment is particularly critical to uninterrupted operations, officers say.

One disadvantage to relying on tracked vehicles like the tanks and Bradleys is they require steady maintenance to keep running. They are generally more difficult to transport to hotspots and, once there, slower on-the-move than their lightly armored, wheeled counterparts. But they also generally provide greater force protection, more firepower and better maneuverability over difficult terrain.

At the regiment, Short has his own 70-person intelligence center — normally found at the division level — to collect, analyze and disseminate battlefield information.

The cavalry unit typically is assigned to a three-star general who commands a corps or joint task force.

“We’ve got fighting vehicles and combat vehicles that allow us to position ourselves and gain contact with an enemy and maintain that contact. And [we] report back to that corps commander, ‘Hey, this is where the bad guys are. You need to start moving,’” Short said. “He makes the decision to reposition a typical division-type element so you can come back in there and fight. Meanwhile, we maintain the contact and let him know what’s going on.”

The armored cavalry also is considered an “economy of force” unit trained to operate over wide areas, officers say. After U.S. forces took Baghdad in the 2003 war in Iraq, the 3rd ACR was assigned to Anbar province, a vast swath of land the size of California that includes borders with Syria and Saudi Arabia. Some troops refer to the area as the “Wild West,” as it has served as terrain for nomadic tribes, smugglers, fugitives and insurgent resupply.

During that period, the regiment was augmented with infantry, engineers, military police and civil affairs troops, swelling its numbers to 8,200, Short said.

Without the cavalry’s big guns from the air and ground, “what you think of as an intelligence collector would walk in and get killed,” Short said of such an environment. Conversely, in the cavalry, “these guys bring a little backup and fight. They can fight their way in and fight their way out.”

Though “accountants will not like this,” that kind of reconnaissance and security support is exactly what the UAs require if they are to operate on a widespread, “distributed” battlefield, as the Army envisions, McMaster argued in the e-mail last summer.

“Cavalry is combined arms and cavalry represents our whole Army in one little package,” McMaster said in the interview. But it does not exist in isolation, he said. The cavalry’s key principle for security operations is, “Orient on the main body,” he said. That means “everything we do has to be relevant and useful to the forces that we’re there supporting by conducting reconnaissance and security,” McMaster explained.

“We could also conduct a security operation forward of these units of action so they can move unimpeded [and] keep the maximum numbers uncommitted to fights, so they can achieve greater speed of action,” the colonel said. “We could also help transition between a fight . . . that employs surveillance platforms and joint fires to a close fight with the enemy, based on the enemy’s ability to foil those technological capabilities with dispersion, concealment [or] intermingling with civilian populations.”

Lacking the tools to fight for information in a future, sensor-dependent world, the UAs might be anything but aggressive when faced with an ill-understood adversary, McMaster worries.

“Leaders will be predispositioned to wait for information rather than take resolute action,” he writes in his 2003 paper. “Indeed, they will have to act cautiously to ensure their force’s survival. Ironically, a force that was designed to be fast and agile will operate ponderously.”

UA commanders might alternatively use the cavalry to facilitate their own missions: “We can find that enemy. We could isolate strong enemy positions, we can determine what their real fighting power is based on their training level, morale, their intentions,” he argued in last month’s interview. “We can reveal their intentions.”

In this way, “when these units of action are employed, they’re employed in such a way as to maximize their capabilities, strike against enemy weakness while we help isolate the strength. That’s what cavalry has always done,” he said.

The alternative could be that the 3rd ACR will be converted into a UA identical to others being formed, Army officials say. The Fort Carson unit is slated to undergo a transformation in fiscal year 2006, after it returns from its second yearlong deployment to Iraq, according to these officials.

But Army headquarters has not yet said how 3rd ACR will change. Though McMaster and his top officers would like to play a role in that discussion, their immediate focus has been preparing for Iraq, they say.

Generally, the Army has delineated two major types of UAs: “maneuver” and “support.” Among the maneuver UAs, the service is creating some “heavy” brigades and other, lighter “infantry” brigades. As a vanguard unit in the transformation plan, the 3rd Infantry Division at Ft. Stewart, GA, has reorganized its maneuver brigades into heavy UAs (ITP, Jan. 22, 2004, p1). At the same time, the 10th and 101st divisions are converting their combat brigades to infantry UAs, according to the Army.

Support UAs come in different varieties, including: “aviation,” “maneuver enhancement,” “fires,” “sustainment,” and “reconnaissance and surveillance,” according to the Army.

The reconnaissance and surveillance UAs have officially been termed “RSTA,” short for “reconnaissance, surveillance and target attack.” The service reportedly intends to build about five such RSTA brigades.

But there has been great concern in the cavalry community — which extends beyond the 3rd ACR to those who have previously served in such regiments or in smaller cavalry units tied to divisions — that these new RSTA UAs would be ill-equipped and inadequately trained to fight for information or to defend themselves, Army officials say.

Moreover, it appears plans for similarly structured reconnaissance battalions — which would be part of infantry UAs — regard these units as relatively interchangeable with other battalions. They may be limited to performing intelligence functions solely within their battalion area rather than for the higher headquarters’ entire area of operations, as cavalry units have done in the past, sources tell ITP.

If the same approach is taken to creating the larger RSTA brigades, the concern is that a division commander will lack “organic” reconnaissance assets that he can tap to advise him on enemy disposition anywhere in his area of responsibility.

“Is that exactly the right organization for the unit of action — the way the RSTA squadron is organized?” McMaster asked in the interview last month, using the cavalry term “squadron” for what are called “battalions” in the infantry. “The Army is taking a hard look at that now.”

In fact, Army officers hotly debated the issue during a “reconnaissance summit” held at Ft. Benning, GA, in mid-January, service officials say. The discussion revealed some stark differences in thinking. One official reportedly argued the term “cavalry” should be eliminated from discussion of the RSTA battalions, while others insisted the Army must retain a significant capability to fight for information, according to sources familiar with the event.

“I would argue that we need to take a hard look at it, and that the [RSTA] structure may have been influenced by some flawed assumptions about not having to fight for information,” McMaster told ITP. “You know, being able to use surveillance and information technologies to lift the fog of war, remove ambiguity — and I think we’ve proven every day in Afghanistan and Iraq that’s not the case.”

The regiment commander added that the Army has begun calling the reconnaissance elements of heavy UAs “armed reconnaissance squadrons,” which he regards as an affirmation that intelligence collection must continue to be backed up by weapons.

“The Army’s already moving in that direction, to make that squadron more capable of fighting for information,” McMaster said. “I think we’ll get it right, over time, as long as we keep an open mind and don’t try to force this thing to work. If we don’t think it’s working, [we] keep modifying it.”

During a Jan. 6 regiment-wide exercise at Ft. Carson, McMaster urged his unit leaders to continuously view the battlespace as a whole and visualize the enemy’s evolving disposition in it (ITP, Jan. 27, p1). He urged them to use the new technologies as tools to aid their understanding, but not to rely on sensors alone to tell them all that they need to know.

“We need a holistic, unified view of what is happening in our training area,” McMaster said at the battlefield update briefing. “Because the value of this information is limited in time, we need to react to it very quickly. The drag on that is we are reacting to the incident itself … We need to get inside the mind of the enemy who is doing this attack.”

“Our Army is striving to be a campaign quality Army, which implies the ability to sustain operations — high speed, offensive operations without pause,” McMaster told ITP in the interview. That requires an “the ability to deliver multiple blows against the enemy from unexpected directions so that you seize and retain the initiative so you can finish a campaign rapidly,” he said. “And then transition quickly into the kind of security [and stability] role that we find ourselves in in Iraq. And I think cavalry assists you in doing all that.”

“Just like the 82nd Airborne is its own unique unit, we are our own unique unit,” Short agreed in the interview last month. “Occasionally you’ve just got to have that one thing, and we bring that one [capability] for fighting for information.”

Elaine M. Grossman

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 17:09
This is the the way 3acr is set up:

3 ground squadrons

1st squadron
a troop
b troop
c troop
d company heavy tank company
howbat
2nd squadron
e troop
f troop
g troop
h company heavy tank company
howbat
3rd squadron
i troop
k troop
l troop
m company heavy tank company
howbat

each troop is set up as a normal cav troop is with 2 plt brads 2 plt tanks except for the heavy company which have 3 plt tanks and an engineer plt.

Each ground squadron also has an extra unit attatched. Not sure what 1st and 2nd squadron has but 3rd is 66 mi

Also of course there is HHT for each squadron

Then you have 4th squadron which is aviation

n troop air cav
o troop air cav
p troop air cav
q troop attack troop
r troop attack troop
s troop assualt troop
t troop air maint troop

there is also an air ambulance troop assigned to 4th squadron

Off the 4th squadron website it says a total of 83 combat aircraft including the medevac birds.

Then there is support squadron which does not have any combat vehicles

Not real sure about the personel numbers but 5200 is what I have always been told so I would assume thats pretty close.

Bill
23 Apr 06,, 17:24
What are you looking for exact numbers?

One thing is 3acr has m1a2 not m1a1.

Let me know what your looking for and I can help you out since I'm with the regiment.

Heh, so do ya got a Stetson? :biggrin:

Bill
23 Apr 06,, 17:27
I never realized before the total lack of Infantry in the ACR.

Well there are still 250 dismount scouts, and i imagine they've probably got at least one sniper section in the Regimental HHC, so there are still quite a lot of guys with rifles, but no...nothing like an M2 or M113 equipped Armor or Infantry division.

There may be some infantry associated with the AASLT troop too.

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 17:52
Well there are still 250 dismount scouts, and i imagine they've probably got at least one sniper section in the Regimental HHC, so there are still quite a lot of guys with rifles, but no...nothing like an M2 or M113 equipped Armor or Infantry division.

There may be some infantry associated with the AASLT troop too.
No sniper section in the RHHT. Our snipers are in the scout plts. Believe it or not there is no infantry in 3acr.

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 17:54
Heh, so do ya got a Stetson? :biggrin:

Ive been in cav units since I joined the army. I have a stetson and spurs from before I was with 3acr. But thats a tradition thats slowly fading away.

rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 18:25
""Well there are still 250 dismount scouts"

Whered you get that?

I count only 216. 24 in each of nine troops.

OTOH they have 123 tanks vs 56 in the new Heavy UA and 125 Bradleys vs approx 85.

rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 20:08
I have most of that. But there are still some discrepancies.

Heres the revised #'s Ive been able to come up with:

Aviation:
24 Kiowas
16 Apaches
15 UH 60 Troop transports
15 UH 60 Medevac
4 EH-60

700 approx Aviation Squadron
742 Support Squadron

140 ACR HQ Troop
158 MI Co
162 AD Co
75 Chem Co.
200 Engineer Co

759 ACS HQ Troop(3 @253)
426 Field Artillery(3 Batteries @142)
*228 Tank Companies(3 @76)
**1206 Cavalry Troop(9 @134)

4796 Total

*Tank Co.
15 HQ Sec (2 Tanks)
13 Maint Sec 15
3 Platoons (4 Tanks each)
3 Platoon Leaders
3 Plt Sgt
6 Tank Commanders
36 Tank Crew

**CavTroop
15 HQ Sec
18 Maint Sec
9 Mortar Sec
2 Scout Plt(6 Bradleys each)
2 Plt Leaders
2 Plt Sgt
4 Sec leaders
4 Squad leaders
24 Bradley Crew(Driver & Gunner)
24 Scouts
2 Tank Plt(4 Tanks each)
32 Total Crew

Bill
23 Apr 06,, 20:23
No sniper section in the RHHT. Our snipers are in the scout plts. Believe it or not there is no infantry in 3acr.

Scouts training-wise are the equivelant to "elite mechanized infantry", even if they're not used that way.
Not to split hairs, but only infantry MOS can go through USASS(Sniper school), so the sniper section guys will all be 11 series MOS. I was 11B but after USASS i was assigned to our HHC Scout platoon thereafter.

Bill
23 Apr 06,, 20:24
""Well there are still 250 dismount scouts"

Whered you get that?

I count only 216. 24 in each of nine troops.

OTOH they have 123 tanks vs 56 in the new Heavy UA and 125 Bradleys vs approx 85.

125 bradleys, 2 scouts per bradley= 250 scouts.

rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 20:49
LOL

That would make sense but it appears that not all the Bradleys have scouts assigned.

Bill
23 Apr 06,, 20:59
LOL

That would make sense but it appears that not all the Bradleys have scouts assigned.

I don't see why not.

rickusn
23 Apr 06,, 21:57
Bet you didnt look either.

tankervet
23 Apr 06,, 22:53
Scouts training-wise are the equivelant to "elite mechanized infantry", even if they're not used that way.
Not to split hairs, but only infantry MOS can go through USASS(Sniper school), so the sniper section guys will all be 11 series MOS. I was 11B but after USASS i was assigned to our HHC Scout platoon thereafter.
No sir they changed that, now any swinging dick can go. Even me believe it or not. We have 3 usass trained snipers in my troop. They just cant get the asi as of yet because ataars does not allow it.

Bill
24 Apr 06,, 19:59
No sir they changed that, now any swinging dick can go. Even me believe it or not. We have 3 usass trained snipers in my troop. They just cant get the asi as of yet because ataars does not allow it.

Damn, i'll be a monkee's uncle. That was 11 series only when i was in.

DATs at USASS, i feel somehow dirty and cheapened... :tongue:

Bill
24 Apr 06,, 20:01
Bet you didnt look either.

Nope, just common sense.

LOL. Ask TV how many of their Brad CFVs have only 1 or no scouts. That should clear it up right quick.

tankervet
24 Apr 06,, 23:33
Nope, just common sense.

LOL. Ask TV how many of their Brad CFVs have only 1 or no scouts. That should clear it up right quick.
They should all have 2 assigned with the exceptions of like the BFIST and such. I think the command tracks may have only 1 assigned but I'm not positive on this one.

tankervet
24 Apr 06,, 23:35
rickusn:

Your in the ballpark with your numbers. Not sure how accurate your trying to be. It's hard to get exact numbers because of the non combat personel and such. Your on it with your combat numbers though.

rickusn
25 Apr 06,, 00:00
Well I would like to be closer than 5200 to 4800.

LOL

tankervet
25 Apr 06,, 00:32
Looking at your numbers again your right in there. I would say that maybe your numbers are right on. Prob between 4700 and 4800 instead of 5200. Support and Aviation squadrons both have HQ's. I'm not sure if that number is in the approx 700 and 742 or not. Like I said thats where it starts getting hard. Its imposiable to know how many people are assigned to the support jobs without being familiar with them, which I'm not. I know that they drive trucks, cook, keep my pay straight, etc.

Bill
25 Apr 06,, 00:44
rickusn:

Your in the ballpark with your numbers. Not sure how accurate your trying to be. It's hard to get exact numbers because of the non combat personel and such. Your on it with your combat numbers though.

Not to mention that numbers fluctuate as guys flow in and out of a unit on a regular basis.

rickusn
25 Apr 06,, 01:31
I already stated:

"That would make sense... "

But the M3 CFV assigned to
each of the 9 nine Cavalry Troop HQ and the M3 CFV's assigned to the AD Battery (8?)(10 according to the TOE) have no scouts attached according to the TOE..

That leaves 6 in each of 18 Scout Plts for 108 x 2=216.

Even if used as infantry that isnt many for a Brigade sized unit nor would 250.

But then its not supposed to be an infantry-centric combat unit.

OTOH armor is quite vulnerable w/o supporting infantry or so Im told.

And this unit has a lot of Armor.

Compare to the ne Heavy UA 56 Tanks and 85 M3 CFV.

But none of this will matter soon as the 3rd ACR is scheduled to begin transitioning to a Heavy UA this summer after it moves to Ft. Hood.

I think its short-sighted to disband this "unique" organization but as usual I have no say..

Maybe TV has more on this?

Bill
25 Apr 06,, 01:43
I think the whole idea of the UA's is just an expensive reinvention of the wheel that gains us- let's see- nothing at all.

tankervet
25 Apr 06,, 02:22
The 3ACR is good for its role. We have to remember that the Cav and the rest of the army does not fight the same by any means. I am talking about Cold war era I know but still. It's not fair to either the Cav or an Armor/Inf Bn to compare to two. They both have advantages/disadvantages obviously.
If I understand your comparison right, your saying hey the regiment has blank many more of blank so its better as a fighting unit than a UA. The regiment is organized as close to a UA of the past as any unit. We are a self sufficient task force if you will. But some think that the ACR is not needed on the modern battlefield.

As far as UA.

The good
It keeps from having pieces of units left over after task organizing. As with 3ID we had a BN of signal. Never would all this be used even when the whole division deployed. With a UA everything is organic so no need to task organize. And therefore no pieces of units left out. Makes sense on paper I guess.

The bad
With a UA units like 3ACR dont fit. It screws up the rotation if you will. If our target area requires say a force of 5 UA. The regiment is larger than that so when you throw it into the rotation it screws up everything.

All in all I liked the army better before, but as with everyone else on this board, no one who matters cares what I think.

tankervet
25 Apr 06,, 02:24
And armor can be vulnable without infantry support is used incorrectly. But just like snipe said, we have dismount scouts. Like I said above we fight different than any other unit in the Army. There is a reason 3/7 cav led the fight to baghdad but stayed on the outskirts of the city once we got there!

tankervet
25 Apr 06,, 02:26
snipe what happend to clank clank kill a tank? You got me feeling left out or something :)

Bill
25 Apr 06,, 16:45
And armor can be vulnable without infantry support is used incorrectly. But just like snipe said, we have dismount scouts. Like I said above we fight different than any other unit in the Army. There is a reason 3/7 cav led the fight to baghdad but stayed on the outskirts of the city once we got there!

Agreed, a Cav unit fights MUCH differently than an Armor of Inf unit.

An ACR is really a scouting/screening force, intended for highly mobile and fluid manuever warfare. It would be highly vulnerable in an urban area or the like.

Bill
25 Apr 06,, 16:46
snipe what happend to clank clank kill a tank? You got me feeling left out or something :)

I change my sig from time to time to keep it fresh.

My preferred sig is "US Army Snipers...Providing surgical strikes since 1776". ;)

Bluesman
29 Apr 06,, 13:46
My son has been making noises of joining the Army as a cav scout.

That would be fine with me (like I even HAVE A say; I don't), but me and his mom would MUCH rather he join the Air Force.

He has a buddy that's a light infantryman with 10th Mountain that is having the time of his life in Afghanistan right now. My son may decide that's what he wants, too.

My current OIC is an old cav guy, and I put him and my son together to talk about life as a pony soldier.

At any rate, I'm thinking the lad is going to end up in uniform someday. I just want him to finish college first, and see what the options are THEN. Whatever he decides, though, I hope he serves in the military. It's an experience like no other; I bet that's even more true for a cav scout.

Bill
29 Apr 06,, 15:17
Tell your boy this Top, short of SPECOPS types, no one- NO ONE- spends as much time in the field as Cav units do.

Depending on the boys outlook that could definitely affect his thinking one way or another.

Personally i loved the field(and hated barracks life), but many troops were the exact opposite.

Bluesman
29 Apr 06,, 16:49
Tell your boy this Top, short of SPECOPS types, no one- NO ONE- spends as much time in the field as Cav units do.

Depending on the boys outlook that could definitely affect his thinking one way or another.

Personally i loved the field(and hated barracks life), but many troops were the exact opposite.

True dat. I liked going to the field, too. Of course, it was shorter and easier than a typical Army FTX. But like I posted before: a cold-weather FTX in Michigan in January is no cakewalk, and doing Rapid Runway Repair while wearing chem gear is the hardest work I've EVER done. So, we sweated and froze a bit, too, just not on the same scale as the grunts.

As for the kid, he WANTS to go do hard stuff, and the more military it is, the better for him. His pal e-mails him from the TOC out in the Back-of-Beyond, Afghanistan, and he's lovin' life. Sometimes, my boy feels like he's missing something great. He wants to do that stuff, too.

Bill
29 Apr 06,, 17:04
Of course he's missing something.

Bluesman
15 Jun 06,, 09:23
Well, it's settled: Bluesman Jr. is going into the Cav after he gets his Associate's. I wanted him to finish the four-year degree first...but there's no holdin' the lad in. He wants to get into the fight (I sure know what THAT is like!), and in June of next year...off he goes to the Big Green Machine.

Wish it was the Air Force, but it ain't my call.

ANYhoo, it'll be a proud day for Mom and his ole man to watch him march across the field with his class.

May he never have occasion to regret his decision.

Officer of Engineers
15 Jun 06,, 09:43
My congratulations. We're the lucky ones.

Bluesman
16 Jun 06,, 04:22
My congratulations. We're the lucky ones.

What a very classy thing to say.

I passed it on to my son; he sends his regards and appreciation to you.

Officer of Engineers
16 Jun 06,, 05:16
Part of the compliment has to goto you and your Lt Bluesman, MSgt Bluesman. You've made him. No, correct that. You've forged him.

Bluesman
16 Jun 06,, 10:26
Poor kid never had a chance. :biggrin: He's been militarily-oriented since about three years old. He's already been in uniform for a few years: he rose to be his Civil Air Patrol squadron's First Sergeant.

I didn't think I'd ever be prouder than when he became a cadet NCO. I pinned it on, and as the squadron's guest, I led him and the other new cadet NCOs in reciting the NCO Creed.

But I bet I max out when I watch him take the Oath, and pledge his life to our country.

Every step of the way was with our encouragement, but we NEVER pushed him in that direction, and he made his own choices. It says something about his character that he wants to subordinate his own interests to serve something bigger, that he will submit to discipline for a greater good.

He's a good kid. Whatever part I or his mother played in that, he has decided for himself that he wants to help make the world a better place.

TopHatter
16 Jun 06,, 13:45
Pass my congratulations and appreciation on to the lad for me Blues.

It'll be good to see him again next week when I'm not chemically impaired... :redface:

Bluesman
14 Mar 07,, 18:27
Junior Bluesman signed papers and swore the Oath of Enlistement yesterday. It's now an Army of Another One.:)

He leaves for Ft. Knox, the Home of the United States Cavalry - in July. He's moving out of MY house next week, to go spend some time with some buddies in Atlanta until then.

Proud of that man.

glyn
14 Mar 07,, 19:46
I wish him the best of luck in the Profession of Arms where Service comes before Self. It is an honourable profession, and unlike any other. He will forge life-long friendships among his comrades. He will travel the world, and see and learn things that are not really possible for non-service personnel to fully understand.

Bluesman
14 Mar 07,, 20:06
I wish him the best of luck in the Profession of Arms where Service comes before Self. It is an honourable profession, and unlike any other. He will forge life-long friendships among his comrades. He will travel the world, and see and learn things that are not really possible for non-service personnel to fully understand.

That has certainly been my experience, as well.

The very best people I've ever known have been from my service days. The very WORST, too.

There were many, many times when I would think to myself, 'Had I stayed in my old job in Ft. Worth, Texas, I would not be doing THIS right now'. And that thought occurred to me over and over again. I wish I could relate to all of you the incredible variety, the sheer uniqueness, and the engrossing subject matter of a military life. (And I've never even been shot at!)

If you haven't known this life, you can't know what it's like; you have to LIVE it! And when you do, you'll be changed forever.

He's off to one helluva great adventure.

dave lukins
14 Mar 07,, 21:14
Bluesman I'm sure he's going in with a lot of your "experience" in his ears ,and will a tower of strength when he's feeling down. The change in his demeanour on his first home visit will shock you,in a good way of course:) Good luck to him

zraver
14 Mar 07,, 23:43
grats, even if he is going as a Delta and not a Kilo. Just remember to tell him that if he is going as a scout his job is to observe and report, not be observed, draw fire and let others report.

T_igger_cs_30
15 Mar 07,, 01:23
Bluesman, you must be very proud , and from what I read it would appear he will make you even prouder............I salute him........FEAR NAUGHT

sappersgt
15 Mar 07,, 01:47
Junior Bluesman signed papers and swore the Oath of Enlistement yesterday. It's now an Army of Another One.:)

He leaves for Ft. Knox, the Home of the United States Cavalry - in July. He's moving out of MY house next week, to go spend some time with some buddies in Atlanta until then.

Proud of that man.

You've got a right to be immensely proud. Heck, I've even got a smile on MY face.:biggrin:

Stan187
15 Mar 07,, 03:31
Bluesman give my congrats to Jr.

Bluesman
15 Mar 07,, 03:35
Bluesman give my congrats to Jr.

Come up for the party, and you can shake his hand yourself!:cool:

Is it something you'd consider? You're welcome if you can make it, of course.

Bluesman
15 Mar 07,, 03:36
You've got a right to be immensely proud. Heck, I've even got a smile on MY face.:biggrin:

Can't wait to see him with spurs and a Stetson...

Officer of Engineers
15 Mar 07,, 03:44
I've got to echo the Sgt-Maj Sappersgt. All I can picture is the big grin on your face. My compliments to your son, Master-Sergeant ... and also to his father.

Stan187
17 Mar 07,, 18:13
Come up for the party, and you can shake his hand yourself!:cool:

Is it something you'd consider? You're welcome if you can make it, of course.

Still trying to see if time will allow. I will certainly try to make it up.

Ray
17 Mar 07,, 20:32
Congratulations Bluesman and the same to your son,

I am sure he will make your wife and you proud.

kams
17 Mar 07,, 21:12
Sir,

Please pass on my Compliments to your Son. Congratulations to you and your wife.

Bluesman
22 Mar 07,, 02:03
WELL then.:mad:

I figgered it's about time I revealed what our weekend in Key West was like.

Fun. Mostly. If you've ever been on Duval Street during St. Patty's Day, you'll know you pretty much wear a silly grin the whole time. Unless you're taking a drink, that is; why let that beautiful Guiness go onto your shirt instead of into your belly, just because you're grinning like a mule eating saw-briars?

But back to the NOT-so-fun part. If you're wondering why this story is in this thread, well, there is a lot of my son in it, and he was the topic when this thread died out. You know, how danged PROUD we are of the li'l nipper, an' all.

WELL then.:mad: He had one of his buddies that he's known since we were in Ft. Meade fly down here (we even bought him the ticket), and he accompanied us to Key West. Plan was to come back to Tampa and these two would go back to the other guy's house in Atlanta: my son wanted to move out and live on his own with his pal before leaving for the Army in July. Said youngster also recently joined the Army, so PV2 Blueskid and PV2 Bluesbuddy were going to spend some time together cruisin' the town. I told 'em to look out for each other and don't do nothin' dumb.

I should've taken my own advice.:mad:

Bluesbuddy shows up at our domicile at 0500 Sunday morning DEAD DRUNK, and Blueskid is nowhere in sight. Both are 19; under-age for drinking.:mad:

Lt. Bluesman and I head for Duval, last known location, with the absolute certainty that we're not going to be able to find him, no matter what's happened. We see a cop going into a diner, though, so we stop him to ask if he knows anything about it.

Now, there must've been over 300 cops on duty in Key West that night, and we run into the ONE GUY that picked up our son and threw him in the drunk tank. Oh, ain't I just the proud poppa?:mad:

ANYhoo, we went and got him later that morning, and he doesn't remember what happened, nor how he got all the scrapes on his back. According to the cop, he was found on a guy's front porch, bellowing for the guy to come out and fight him, and there's simply no way to know WHAT the hell was going on.

Bluesbuddy apparently had a similar adventure, as evidenced by the fat lip and busted front tooth.:eek: Neither young soldier remembers anything after the first bar, and getting their fake IDs:mad: taken away from them.

I gave 'em the Platoon Sergeant's Best Rip for about thirty minutes. After that, I gave 'em a serious talking-to about the 75,582 different ways that could've gone bad.

He's out of the house as of 1000 this morning. He's dam' lucky I let him go, and didn't either lock him in his room, or throw him out the door with just the clothes on his back, but he's gone now.

JAYZUS. What an absolutely Army thing to do. He's gonna fit right in.:rolleyes:

T_igger_cs_30
22 Mar 07,, 02:18
Oh the joys of youth Bluesman,...you would be like me I am sure never ever would have dreamed of getting into such a situaion :rolleyes:

Stan187
22 Mar 07,, 02:21
I don't get it. How are all the guys who go into the Army the type who black out. I know for me, I don't forget anything that happened and completely loose my senses, no matter how drunk, and I've been drunk enough to where colors are medling in my mind. Not to the point of passing out on a guy's porch yelling for him to come fight. Maybe people go thru some physiological change once they sign their name on the dotted line.

T_igger_cs_30
22 Mar 07,, 02:23
I don't get it. How are all the guys who go into the Army the type who black out. I know for me, I don't forget anything that happened and completely loose my senses, no matter how drunk, and I've been drunk enough to where colors are medling in my mind. Not to the point of passing out on a guy's porch yelling for him to come fight. Maybe people go thru some physiological change once they sign their name on the dotted line.

easy you cant drink as much as us Army types :biggrin:

sappersgt
22 Mar 07,, 05:10
Did PV2s Blueskid and Bluesbuddy escape the nabobs of officialdom or does this go back to their...(CO?)?:eek:

Bluesman
22 Mar 07,, 13:01
Did PV2s Blueskid and Bluesbuddy escape the nabobs of officialdom or does this go back to their...(CO?)?:eek:

I'm not sure if this is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing, but...

It's all over and done with. The police didn't make an arrest record (they have to note that they actually had him in custody, of course), but as far as official status goes, they put it down as 'medical observation', for cases just like this: dumb stuff that shouldn't screw up an otherwise good record.

If he'd done anything but go into 'yessir/no sir' mode when the cop rolled up on him, though, the option to ratchet up the Hassle Meter is always there. The cops wouldn't have had the option of 'medical observation' if the drunk they're dealing with is belligerant. Luckily, the fight seems to have gone out of him by then.:frown: They took him into custody basically to make sure he's not going to get himself hurt, hence, 'medical observation'.

When it's done that way, NObody can get at the records, because it's protected under the Health Information Protection Act, and not even his parents can see it, or even know it exists. Which is cool, right?

BUT...I told him he WILL be telling his recruiter about it. (Until he actually reports to Basic Training, the recruiter is the closest thing to a commander that he's got, but because of all the limitations that non-commanding authorities have, the recruiter isn't very close to that role at all. There's a lot of power in the title 'Commanding Officer'.) I don't want him getting used to 'lying by ommission' to NCOs or anybody else. I wouldn't tolerate it in my people, and I don't want him thinking that it's proper to not let his chain of command know about things like this. If there's pain coming his way, he should face it like a man.

So the lad squirted out of his first scrape with no damage. I just hope he doesn't learn the wrong lesson, or fail to learn anything at all from this. If he feels invulnerable, he'll get cocky, and while some swagger is good in a military man, there is NOTHING that will get you hammered like arrogance. He's not prone to that sort of thing, but I'd have preferred a BIT more pain to go with this REALLY stupid episode.

T_igger_cs_30
22 Mar 07,, 13:30
You know Bluesman, as a parent I can understand how you are feeling,you epitomise the proud parent, I think I to would have wanted a little more "pumishment" if it had been my son, I do believe though everyone deserves a "first kick of the can" if we do not screw up how do we learn? If it had have gone further it could have had a detrimental effect on what appears to be a very promising future.
You know we talk a lot about the negatives with the youth of today, but given the situation in the world today and all the negative reporting about what is wrong with the military, we do not give most of the youth of today enough credit that they are still joining and want to be part of "something special" . It cheers me that sons like yours, and daughters are still enlisting, still seeing how things can be.
I told both my sons on there 18th birthdays, the same thing, "the future is thier's to lose, but they know I will always be there for them". Mrs tigger and myself have only one son now, we lost one.Tragicly, the void will always be with us, but we do not view it as a total waste, due to the circumstances of his death.
from what I read I am sure your sons future is going to be bright and fruitfull.
FEAR NAUGHT

Bluesman
22 Mar 07,, 15:48
You know Bluesman, as a parent I can understand how you are feeling,you epitomise the proud parent, I think I to would have wanted a little more "pumishment" if it had been my son, I do believe though everyone deserves a "first kick of the can" if we do not screw up how do we learn? If it had have gone further it could have had a detrimental effect on what appears to be a very promising future.
You know we talk a lot about the negatives with the youth of today, but given the situation in the world today and all the negative reporting about what is wrong with the military, we do not give most of the youth of today enough credit that they are still joining and want to be part of "something special" . It cheers me that sons like yours, and daughters are still enlisting, still seeing how things can be.
I told both my sons on there 18th birthdays, the same thing, "the future is thier's to lose, but they know I will always be there for them". Mrs tigger and myself have only one son now, we lost one.Tragicly, the void will always be with us, but we do not view it as a total waste, due to the circumstances of his death.
from what I read I am sure your sons future is going to be bright and fruitfull.
FEAR NAUGHT

Hey, WABbers? Would you like to meet one of my best friends that I've never met? This is T_igger_cs_30, and I think he understands a lot of what the last couple of pages of this thread have been about for me.

Tigger, you magnificent bastard, I wish you were here, but since you're not, accept my virtual handshake for making me and Lt. Bluesman feel better about ALL of this.

T_igger_cs_30
22 Mar 07,, 16:48
Hey, WABbers? Would you like to meet one of my best friends that I've never met? This is T_igger_cs_30, and I think he understands a lot of what the last couple of pages of this thread have been about for me.

Tigger, you magnificent bastard, I wish you were here, but since you're not, accept my virtual handshake for making me and Lt. Bluesman feel better about ALL of this.

Accepted with pleasure.................next up Bluesman grandchildren :rolleyes: ..........wait for it its fanbloodytastic.......;)

Parihaka
22 Mar 07,, 22:04
If he'd done anything but go into 'yessir/no sir' mode when the cop rolled up on him, though, the option to ratchet up the Hassle Meter is always there. The cops wouldn't have had the option of 'medical observation' if the drunk they're dealing with is belligerant. Luckily, the fight seems to have gone out of him by then.:frown: They took him into custody basically to make sure he's not going to get himself hurt, hence, 'medical observation'.


luck had nothing to do with it, or another way of putting it he was lucky in the same way as I was lucky, namely my parents taught me that there is a certain point you can push to and then it's time to go "yes Sir".
No matter how drunk I've got, I've always remembered "don't mess with the cops". A lot of my friends weren't so "lucky".

Parihaka
22 Mar 07,, 22:05
Tigger, sorry to hear about your son, I can't imagine facing anything worse.

T_igger_cs_30
22 Mar 07,, 23:18
Tigger, sorry to hear about your son, I can't imagine facing anything worse.

[B]Thanks Pari, for your thoughts, there is not anything worse, I would not wish the loss of a son, or daugher on my worst enemy./B]

Stan187
23 Mar 07,, 19:22
easy you cant drink as much as us Army types :biggrin:

bullcrap. And I am an Army type, I'm signing up in half a year.

Stan187
23 Mar 07,, 19:26
[QUOTE=T_igger_cs_30;357858][B]Accepted with pleasure.................next up Bluesman grandchildren :rolleyes: ..........QUOTE]

Whoa, slow your boat sir, I don't know if Bluesman is ready for that:biggrin:

Shek
25 Mar 07,, 13:01
I told both my sons on there 18th birthdays, the same thing, "the future is thier's to lose, but they know I will always be there for them". Mrs tigger and myself have only one son now, we lost one.Tragicly, the void will always be with us, but we do not view it as a total waste, due to the circumstances of his death.
from what I read I am sure your sons future is going to be bright and fruitfull.
FEAR NAUGHT[/B]

T_igger_cs_30,
My condolences to you and your wife.

T_igger_cs_30
25 Mar 07,, 18:30
T_igger_cs_30,
My condolences to you and your wife.

Thank yuo from the both of us Shek

dave lukins
25 Mar 07,, 18:53
Wayne,shocked and stunned is just the beginning mate...See you in Canada!!

Bluesman
26 Mar 07,, 05:20
OmiGAWD, that young'un is already totally ate UP!

So, before we let him go off the Atlanta with his hooligan friend (okay, he's a good kid, too, but he's also a SOLDIER, so figger the odds these two cherry-boy grunts WON'T get into something!:mad: ), we levied a no-negotiate demand: he has to call home EVERY DAM' DAY and tell us what's up. No excuses for missing comms check, no one-word answers ('How was your day?' 'Fine.' 'What did you do?' 'Nothing.' NOT GONNA CUT IT!)

But after today's conversation, you know what he said? 'GARRYOWEN!'

Not 'Bye, Dad', or 'Talk to you tomorrow.'

Somebody's been talking to the kid. He hasn't even left for Basic yet, and he's a fanatic already!

Bluesman
29 Mar 07,, 18:43
I told my Branch Chief - Army Lt Colonel, came from the Cav, himself - and he told me to start saying the OTHER regiments' sayings back to the lad.

When he gives me 'Garryowen!', which is the 7th Cavalry's saying, I can give HIM 'BRAVE RIFLES!', which is the 3rd ACR's motto.

Bluesman
18 Jul 07,, 17:11
PV2 Blueskid reports to Ft Knox today.

This is IT.

sappersgt
18 Jul 07,, 18:41
PV2 Blueskid reports to Ft Knox today.

This is IT.

The rite of passage. Proud I'll bet. :biggrin:

Are Blueskid and Bluesbuddy going together?

zraver
18 Jul 07,, 21:13
Salute for your kiddo

Bluesman
19 Jul 07,, 01:44
The rite of passage. Proud I'll bet. :biggrin:

Are Blueskid and Bluesbuddy going together?

No, and thank Yahweh for THAT. They'd prolly be up on charges before their first haircut.

Bluesbuddy is somewhere in Training Week 2 at Ft Leonard Wood. Pore sap.

And our new donkey walloper is fresh off the bus from Atlanta, chillin' and taking his ease on the government's dime in beautiful, scenic and historic Ft Knox, where every meal is a banquet, every paycheck a fortune. :biggrin: This is Day One.

Bluesman
19 Jul 07,, 01:49
Salute for your kiddo

Oh, don't go and do THAT! He already thinks he's JEB Stuart reborn. I'm gonna hafta slap the sass out o' the narrow-chested, light-in-the-ass snot before he starts thinking he's worthy of his meagre pay.

Okay, actually, I can't wait to see what he looks like in Army blues and a Stetson.;)

Officer of Engineers
19 Jul 07,, 01:49
Pat yourself on the back, old man. You did your kid proud.

Bluesman
19 Jul 07,, 01:52
Pat yourself on the back, old man. You did your kid proud.

He thought what you said about us was terrific. He wants to meet you someday.

So do I, sir.

Parihaka
19 Jul 07,, 02:06
All I can say is I hope I do as well with my wee nippers as you've obviously done with yours. Congrats Blues:cool:

Bluesman
19 Jul 07,, 02:32
All I can say is I hope I do as well with my wee nippers as you've obviously done with yours. Congrats Blues:cool:

Thanks, buddy. Thanks to all of you. His mom and I are eating a nice meal tonight, and we're going to spend the whole time-at-table talking about that man.

Speaking of, I'm late. See ya later, WABbits.

TopHatter
19 Jul 07,, 04:42
He already thinks he's JEB Stuart reborn.

He's not? :confused:






:biggrin:

Bluesman
19 Jul 07,, 15:43
Nah; he's Moe Howard re-born.

Stan187
19 Jul 07,, 20:49
Wish him the best from me, being a cav scout sounds like some real fun!

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 02:30
Graduation Day; he's sportin' his crossed sabers badge on his Army greens.

We've got him until Sunday morning, then we're headed back to California. He'll do two weeks' Stryker training here at Ft Knox, two weeks' hometown recruiter duty in Tampa (lucky dawg!:cool: ), then we got him for three weeks over Christmas.

On 7 January, he moves out for Germany, and will spend a very short time drawing gear...then on to Baghdad, where his regiment is already tearin' it up. He should be there by 1 February.

I spent some time talking to his drill sergeants, his classmates, and some sergeants major. He's in great company; SCOUTS OUT!

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 02:32
Now that the 'No Bluesmen allowed in the AoR' rule has been repealed, this war should be wrapped up by this time next year.:cool:

TopHatter
16 Nov 07,, 02:48
Now that the 'No Bluesmen allowed in the AoR' rule has been repealed, this war should be wrapped up by this time next year.:cool:

Area of Recreation? :confused:

:))

Sure wish his folks could accompany him to his Tampa duty station :redface:

Pass along my congrats!!

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 03:27
Area of Recreation? :confused:

:))

Sure wish his folks could accompany him to his Tampa duty station :redface:

Pass along my congrats!!

Just did...he thanks you.:)

S2
16 Nov 07,, 03:48
"Graduation Day; he's sportin' his crossed sabers badge on his Army greens."

A great day! My sincere congratulations to your son, his mother, and you. I wish him good fortune, proud service, and a safe return. Though a lowly artilleryman, my dad retired w/ 23 years as a Cav NCO to include a Bronze Star (V) earned north of the Imjin in October, 1950.

Believe it or not, I hold your son and you in the highest esteem.

A toast to the newest calvaryman to win his spurs...and his dad.:)

TopHatter
16 Nov 07,, 03:50
Just did...he thanks you.:)

Great!

Might could be I'll have to travel up to his station and shake his hand personally. :)

Parihaka
16 Nov 07,, 03:51
[B]
A toast to the newest calvaryman to win his spurs...and his dad.:)
I'll raise a glass to that:)

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 04:46
I'll raise a glass to that:)

Let me tell you two things:

1) All of us sincerely thank you, and

2) I also thank you for quoting S-2's post. I had - HAD - him on 'Ignore', and I'd have missed it.

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 04:49
"Graduation Day; he's sportin' his crossed sabers badge on his Army greens."

A great day! My sincere congratulations to your son, his mother, and you. I wish him good fortune, proud service, and a safe return. Though a lowly artilleryman, my dad retired w/ 23 years as a Cav NCO to include a Bronze Star (V) earned north of the Imjin in October, 1950.

Believe it or not, I hold your son and you in the highest esteem.

A toast to the newest calvaryman to win his spurs...and his dad.:)

Thank you, sincerely and from all of us.

I wish to climb down and take back whatever the hell it was that made us flare up, and to modify my 'Ignore' list. It seems I made an error there. I do that on occasion.:redface:

We all return the toast, and the good wishes.

I'll see you in the fora...friend.

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 04:57
Great!

Might could be I'll have to travel up to his station and shake his hand personally. :)

Well, it can be done: his kinda/sorta girlfriend and her dad drove up from Tampa to be here. They drove all night after a full day at work for each, Gawd luv 'em. And they have put up with all the Army's foolishness and alien strangeness, and have been the best sports about it all.

But listen, it ain't an easy thang, and if we hadn't booked 'em into the Army lodging, they would've either been in a fleabag near the gate, or waaaaay out thar in a more acceptable place. (Ft Knox is just the same as any Army post: it draws the worst blight and tends to work exactly like the military bases in SimCity: lower property values, decay, down-market businesses, and crime.)

But I tell you what: we MAY/MAY be able to get both of you to the new place in California at the same time: can you come just after New Year's, say, 3 January 'til whenever? He pulls out for Germany @ 6 January.

If not then, shortly thereafter, anyway. Let me know; we'll adjust to what's best for you amd your preferences.

S2
16 Nov 07,, 05:50
"I wish to climb down and take back whatever the hell it was that made us flare up..."

Yeah. Same here. Consider it done (handshake). Have a wee glass of Black Jack when you get a chance. You deserve a small taste of Tennessee and Pershing will appreciate the gesture.

Well done to Master Sergeant and Private First Class Bluesman. You both have got to be happy and immensely proud.

Bluesman
16 Nov 07,, 17:19
"I wish to climb down and take back whatever the hell it was that made us flare up..."

Yeah. Same here. Consider it done (handshake). Have a wee glass of Black Jack when you get a chance. You deserve a small taste of Tennessee and Pershing will appreciate the gesture.

Well done to Master Sergeant and Private First Class Bluesman. You both have got to be happy and immensely proud.

You're spot-on. What a helluva time we're having.

Off to the movies, then a big Italian dinner tonight.

astralis
16 Nov 07,, 18:46
bluesman,

both you and your son must feel ten-feet tall! a hell of an accomplishment for the both of you, and enjoy your time together while it lasts.

my congrats to the new blueswarrior!

glyn
16 Nov 07,, 19:42
Happy smiling faces all around. Good! :) Now, where are the photographs of this momentous occasion? I hope it wasn't a repeat of the Tiki Tiki affair when nobody thought to produce a camera?

Bluesman
17 Nov 07,, 16:20
Got some pix; I'll post 'em when we're back to the ranch.

Now, we're off to the Patton Armor Museum.:))

BD1
17 Nov 07,, 16:25
(Late) congratulations ! Is this the beginning of Blues-Army ?:)

Bluesman
17 Nov 07,, 16:28
(Late) congratulations ! Is this the beginning of Blues-Army ?:)

Not if his parents can help it. Rather have the whole crew in the Air Force.:frown:

ArmchairGeneral
17 Nov 07,, 16:35
Got some pix; I'll post 'em when we're back to the ranch.

Now, we're off to the Patton Armor Museum.:))

You lucky...:mad: My roommate got to go there last year when he was visiting his brother who was training at Ft. Knox. They've got a Tiger II. Envy ain't the word for it. :( :P

TopHatter
17 Nov 07,, 18:52
But I tell you what: we MAY/MAY be able to get both of you to the new place in California at the same time: can you come just after New Year's, say, 3 January 'til whenever? He pulls out for Germany @ 6 January.

If not then, shortly thereafter, anyway. Let me know; we'll adjust to what's best for you amd your preferences.

No can do :(
Our industry does a Christmas shutdown and right after it's over things start bumping again.

glyn
17 Nov 07,, 19:46
You lucky...:mad: My roommate got to go there last year when he was visiting his brother who was training at Ft. Knox. They've got a Tiger II. Envy ain't the word for it. :( :P

A trip to Bovington Tank Museum will be a 'must' if you come to the UK.:)

Gun Grape
18 Nov 07,, 19:09
I wonder who was the proudest. PFC Blueskid becoming a Cav scout or Bluesman watching his son become one?

Congrats to both of you.

Bluesman
18 Nov 07,, 23:42
I wonder who was the proudest. PFC Blueskid becoming a Cav scout or Bluesman watching his son become one?

Congrats to both of you.

Thank you, and you should see him, as proud as Lucifer, with crossed sabers and a swagger.:))

It has been thus since before the first Spartan father watched his son disappear down the road under a new eye, a man that will complete the task of building a new warrior from the raw material the boy's family provided.

My boy coulda whipped that Spartan.:))

Bluesman
27 Aug 11,, 06:13
Necro-post, and a prodigal poster re-visit (ME, that is), for a very good reason: my son is being promoted to Sergeant in a few hours...and he's been awarded the Purple Heart.

He's okay. His squad got hit by an IED three weeks ago, and his squad leader went down with eye injuries, and got med-evac'ed to Germany. His vision seems to be improving. My son got his bell rung, and he's been in the hospital for awhile to check out his marble-box. Seems okay, so he's back to his squad.

ANYhoo, if any of the oldsters that posted such kind things about him in this ancient thread are still around, look back through here at the progression from his decision to join, until present-day. It's interesting. I thought I'd posted about his Iraq tour in here, but it must be in another thread.

But I wanted to let those of you that have 'virtually' met him know that a couple of major events have occurred in the service life of somebody you have known through the WAB.

Officer of Engineers
27 Aug 11,, 06:40
My congratulations to the young Sergeant. His father must be flying a 1000 feet in the air. As I recall, the young Cpl Bluesman was looking for his way out of the army, being tired of being the Col's chaffeur. He must have found his way back to the trigger pullers.

Your son has done me proud, Master Sergeant. I can only imagine the pride the parents must be feeling. Will the good Captain be giving the young Sgt his stripes?

S2
27 Aug 11,, 08:08
K,

Odd things occur in triplets- your boy becomes a proud Cav NCO, Shek posts for the first time in a while (academic sabbatical to Baghdad) and you drop by.

Good to read about your son. I never had any doubts about his talent although, like the Colonel, I wondered a bit about his endurance for the tedious and mindless B.S. that is any soldier's companion. That seems to be resolved for the better of the service and him. I'm very, very glad.

Hope you've also stayed busy doing what you do so well. It remains a target-rich environment and likely shall for the foreseeable future.

Congratulations to him, his mother and you. Tell him to keep a low profile and stay safe. My prayers and best wishes to all.

zraver
27 Aug 11,, 08:37
Hey Blues, glad his bell only got rung and not cracked in defense of liberty.

And tell him congrats on the promotion.

Parihaka
27 Aug 11,, 20:29
Blues, if I were in your shoes I'd not only be immensely proud but also scared senseless. I don't know how you or any other parent with children serving do it. Kudos.

BD1
27 Aug 11,, 21:30
congrats to the newly-made Sergeant and to his proud family

bigross86
28 Aug 11,, 00:44
Bluesman: Congrats to the new Sarge!

Pari: My mother explained it to me thus: "Of course I'm scared, and don't want you to go to a combat unit, but it's not my decision to make, is it? Besides, I honestly believe you're smart enough to get yourself out of trouble just as quick as you can get yourself into it".

Gun Grape
28 Aug 11,, 19:31
Congrats to Sgt Blueskid on the promotion. I won't congratulate him on earning the Purple Heart. But I am glad his injuries were not severe. Do remind him thats not a medal you want multiple awards :biggrin:

Shouldn't he be about to get out? Or out already? Did he decide to reup?

Albany Rifles
29 Aug 11,, 21:26
Congrats to the new sergeant (and the proud father!)

I am a little worried, though. First an earthquake in central Virginia then Hurricane Irene come roaring through and now a posting from Bluesman!

Red Seven
30 Aug 11,, 12:52
my son is being promoted to Sergeant in a few hours...and he's been awarded the Purple Heart.




Congratulations to your son on his promotion and PH. Glad he's Ok. Even mild/moderate TBI can have some residual effects, so he'll want to get rechecked now and then. I've had blast injuries, mult frag wounds and concussions so I've been down that road if you ever need any feedback.
Congrats to the new Sergeant & his proud Dad

Bluesman
29 Dec 11,, 04:26
ANOTHER necro-post, and for the same reason as the last one: I wanted to share something with those among you that have watched my son take his walk through national service during war-time.

Another event, this one rather singular, and I'm just about to bust the buttons off my shirt. It just came through: the Transfer of Authority Ceremony, from my son's unit to the relieving unit, and my son's commander delivered the following speech on the occasion:

============================================
ALL THE WAY – Welcome to all and “Ta Sha Coor” – thank you for joining us as we honor and say farewell to the Dreadnaught Soldiers of the 2nd Battalion, 34th Armor Regiment. The Battalion command team of LTC Chris Kidd and CSM McDwyer are proud of their unit motto “Fear God, Dreadnaught” – however the Taliban fighters in the Maiwand District would absolutely tell you their first fear is disciplined, standards based Dreadnaught Soldiers.



Major General Huggins, Division Command Sergeant Major Lambert, Mr. Haviland, District Governor Mohammed, Brigadier General Mortasa, Police Chief Mohammed, ALP Leader Soda Khan, Kandak and Battalion Commanders and Command Sergeant Majors, the Spartan Brigade Combat Team thanks you for joining us for the Transfer of Authority ceremony between 2-34 AR and 3-71 CAV.



Today-- we prepare to continue the relentless pursuit of the enemy and commemorate the progress achieved by Afghan and American security and governance partners in the Maiwand District. The combined efforts of 6th Kandak ANA, the Maiwand ANP, Afghan Local Police, ANA Special Forces, ODA-3314, TF-196, and 2-34 Armor have achieved impressive security levels; with only one act of violence in the Hutal Bazaar in the last 8-months and an expanding security footprint across the District. Titan Troopers from 3rd Squadron, 71st Cavalry Regiment, who have already been defeating the Taliban in Maiwand, will now officially join this professional team and continue the progress for the Afghan people.

The Dreadnaught mark on history was achieved over 9-months in Maiwand. The battalion immediately established security within the Hutal hub by seizing the Bazaar back from the Taliban, conducting daily partnered patrols which restored the confidence of the local population. 2-34 AR and their ANA partner, COL Rowhani of the 6th Kandak, have placed operational pressure on the enemy in areas previously controlled by the Taliban – multiple disruption Air Assaults into the Band-e-Timor region and route clearance operations towards DeMaiwand have reduced the enemy’s ability to threaten communities in the District.



The essence of the Dreadnaught fight against the Taliban can best be described through SPC Blueskid of the Scout Platoon. During Operation Emporia-V on 11 August, 2011, SPC Blueskid was injured in an IED explosion, but refused to be evacuated. On 12 August at 1200hrs, his Strong Point received enemy fire which was sustained for 9-hrs. SPC Blueskid exposed himself to enemy fire in order to suppress the enemy; this action allowed the forward observer to call for close air support killing a Taliban marksman. SPC Blueskid is our living example of the Warrior Ethos – I will always place the mission first – I will never except defeat. SPC Blueskid chose staying with the patrol over evacuation; he chose victory over defeat.







2-34 AR’s legacy in the Maiwand District will be the methods they employed to assist the District Governor, the Shura members, and the people in providing positive aspects of governance. The Dreadnaughts have excelled at this task; from the economic foundation of the Hutal bazaar, to the new judicial center, and the Flying-J inspection station. The partnership effort to build effective governance has been a catalyst for progress in Maiwand – a model for other regions to follow.



To LTC Kirkpatrick, CSM Yerger, and the Titan Soldiers of 3-71 CAV; it is great to have you back in the Spartan BCT formation. While you served with the Warhorse Brigade, you established a distinguished reputation during multiple combat operations in the Arghandab River Valley. As the Squadron arrived, you immediately attacked the enemy; participating in 3 x multiple battalion operations within 3-weeks – and in Operation To The River West, you dealt a decisive blow to the enemy by killing 28 x Taliban Fighters and 1 x Field Commander. We are already confident that the Titans will continue the exceptional progress of the Dreadnaughts.



Task Force Dreadnaught Soldiers return home to Fort Riley, Kansas proud of their accomplishments. Their contribution to defeating the Taliban and improving the lives of the Afghan people represents another major chapter of 34th Armor Regimental history. The sacrifices of your Soldiers are well known to the Spartan Brigade and the Titan Squadron – we pledge to continue to build on the great foundation you have established. The mission has been passed and 3-71 CAV will carry your efforts forward. In 10-months of demanding fighting, building of governance, and Air Assaulting behind Taliban defensive positions; the Battalion has dramatically altered the security environment in Maiwand – every Task Force Dreadnaught Soldier has contributed to Victory.

DREADNAUGHT

WITH YOUR SHIELD, OR ON IT

ALL THE WAY
==========================================

Imagine, if you can, the pride of a father that knows WAY too much about the reality of what that speech refers to, and then having his son singled out among all those heroes to his right and left. It's overwhelming.

'Mentioned in despatches' is an archaic term that has passed out of use. But once it was reserved for those individuals who were the example of gallantry and heroism. My son has now had that distinction, and he bears the honorable marks of a warrior. Honor, gallantry, heroism, and skill in battle: VERIFIED.

I want to now thank all of you that sent such words of support and encouragement. Even across the wide miles, I can feel the care and concern for somebody you've never met, but whom you value and esteem, and on my son's behalf, I'm grateful. My best wishes go right back to all of you.

NOW, then...if I can just get through his mother's second tour through Afghanistan, starting in April...

zraver
29 Dec 11,, 05:13
WoW, Blues, missed your son getting wounded, no doubts the courage runs in the family but I hope he never has to prove it again. As a historian, I know the term mentioned in dispatches, and yes its an honor when those on high take notice.

Officer of Engineers
29 Dec 11,, 05:15
NOW, then...if I can just get through his mother's second tour through Afghanistan, starting in April...Capt Bluesman's 2nd tour?!?!?!?!

Are we that short of medical officers? I know she's regforce but no reserve officers?

Keith, I don't know how to say this. I know you are proud but at the same time, how much more do you and your family have to do? Why isn't anyone else taking up the slack?

I know. I know. No one else can. That is NOT good enough of an answer. Your senior officers should answer that.

Parihaka
29 Dec 11,, 05:34
Blues, that is sensational, not just for his courage but more so that through his skill he survived (relatively) unscathed.
I can only imagine both your pride and fear. My compliments to your son, you and your whole family.

S2
29 Dec 11,, 05:35
Outstanding. My congratulations to the young cavalry sergeant. I can only imagine just how proud and pleased must be his mother and you. May God bless and keep your family safe from harm's way.

YellowFever
29 Dec 11,, 06:34
The only regret in my life is, unlike my father and my brother, I have never joined the brotherhood so I feel inadequate to offer any words here but I just want to say God bless you and your entire family, Blues.

And the Colonel is right. Your family has done enough.

bigross86
29 Dec 11,, 10:14
Congrats to Blueskid and to his proud dad. יישר כח, חזק ואמץ

tankie
29 Dec 11,, 13:28
Kudos to all , welcome back Keith .

Chogy
29 Dec 11,, 16:20
Congratulations and <salute>!

USSWisconsin
29 Dec 11,, 19:51
@Bluesman and Family

Thank You for your outstanding service to our country.

Congratulations on the impressive recognition that your son has earned.

I hope he recovers quickly and fully from his wounds.

I hope all of you stay safe and have a great 2012.

astralis
03 Jan 12,, 15:50
congrats, keith. glad your son and his unit did real well over there-- even gladder he's back safe.

Albany Rifles
03 Jan 12,, 17:56
Hope the young Trooper is well and recovers quickly.

Bluesman
04 Jan 12,, 18:41
He's home, and 30 days from now, he'll be 'Mr. Blueskid' again He didn't have to do the whole tour with DREADNAUGHTs, but he went and he stayed, so that when his commitment ran out, he wouldn't be 'that guy', the one boarding the helicopter off the FOB, while his squad stays there. He's all done now, and his mother and I aren't living in terror anymore. But if something had happened to him, especially during that 'bonus' time that he volunteered for, I don't think we could have borne it.

I'm trying not to lose focus on what my purpose is, and I'm still in the fight, albeit from afar, safe from harm (mostly; I think this whole deal is costing me something). But even though MY kid is safe, I have got to keep this firmly in mind at all times: every one of 'em is SOMEbody's child, and they want their son or daughter back safely just as badly as I wanted mine. If I get complacent, or if I stop trying to be perfect, then something too horrible to contemplate could carry that young person off, or alter their life so badly that their dreams and potential are lost to them, and to us.

When my wife goes back Over There, I am not sure what it will be like for her. The first time through Afghanistan, she saw a lot of guys on her operating table that looked a lot like our son. He was in Iraq at the time, facing the same things that brought those heroes to her in their dire state. She worked as hard as she could, and poured herself and her art into each one, and knew that, should the worst happen, another just like her, somewhere in Iraq, would be giving it all they had for HIM.

I'm tired from coming off a midnight shift, and I'm probably not in the right frame of mind to be posting something that has me in such a 'down' mood. But I tell ya, fellas...I'm sick of this fukkin' war. None of 'em are any good, and I sure don't want to lose, after what it's already cost, and how much more it WILL cost if we don't win. But this one sucks, and I am just repulsed by the whole dam' thing. I don't like my job anymore, I don't want to be in the killin' business anymore, and someday, when I'm old, I want to look back over my shoulder, and see that my life's work was something other than destruction.

I made a horrible mistake with my life when I was young. I should've opened a bait shop in Texas.

bigross86
04 Jan 12,, 20:29
Keith, "It is fortunate that war is so terrible, lest we become to fond of it."

No one is meant to enjoy war, but in every generation there are those that step up and shoulder the burden so that the rest of the world out there can sleep peacefully. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." I know that you are as proud as can be of Blueskid, and the fact that he will be back safe and sound brings everyone here much joy.

Parihaka
04 Jan 12,, 22:16
I don't like my job anymore, I don't want to be in the killin' business anymore, and someday, when I'm old, I want to look back over my shoulder, and see that my life's work was something other than destruction.

I made a horrible mistake with my life when I was young. I should've opened a bait shop in Texas.

Now don't take this the wrong way but lets just say I could wave a magic wand, and instead of joining up you got to open that bait shop.
The question I have for you is, what is there that you have in your life that you could do without and what would you want to keep?
Would you still have wanted to meet Mrs Bluesman and have your tribe of Blueskids?
How would that have been possible if you had a bait shop in Texas?
Would you still be able to meet up with Mrs Bluesman, would she still have fallen in love with you, and if so would your children still be the same kids they are now?

Be careful what you wish for, because by doing so you also wish other things away....
We are responsible not just for those decisions that lead to bad consequences for ourselves, but the good decisions that add value both to us and the world.

YellowFever
04 Jan 12,, 22:23
In other words, Blues, leave the bait shop to us feather merchants and you handle the important things.

In your death bed, do you really want to say, "I opened a bait shop" or "I tried to make a difference, no matter the outcome." :)

Officer of Engineers
05 Jan 12,, 04:58
I made a horrible mistake with my life when I was young. I should've opened a bait shop in Texas.MSgt, get off your self pity! Look around you. Hell, you've got kids who so worshiped you that once you've mentioned begals, they've stopped bringing in donuts.

DID YOU EVER STEER THEM WRONG?

You want to see good? YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA! OPEN YOUR EYES. KIDS ARE OPENING DOORS FOR YOU JUST TO BE PILOTE!

You want to see something beyond destruction? Goto a shopping centre and smile to a little girl.

You want to know we're winning in in Afghanistan? How many fathers are sending their little girls to school? We're winning ... and we are winning big! Fathers are so proud that their little girls are going to school.

That is worth all the lives we've spent, fathers being brave enough to risk their little girls ... just because we are willing to risk our soldiers to protect them.

That is proud!

lemontree
05 Jan 12,, 05:28
Bluesman,

Please accept my belated congratulations on your son's decoration. Wish you and your family well.

Bluesman
19 Nov 12,, 23:21
Well, Capt Bluesman has been back for over a week, and I just realized that I have not posted that fact here yet.

She's fine...AND...we have our next assignment: we're headed back to Misawa, Japan in May. Yeah, I know: shocked the hell out of us, too.

We were there '92-'95, and enjoyed it immensely. Even the earthquake that nearly dropped our house on us. Liked the base, liked the job. This time through, I don't know what I'll be doing yet. Something with a security clearance, no doubt, until they find out what a horrible risk they're taking becomes clear.

Speaking of doing things for the Air Force overseas: you American taxpayers out there got one fantastic good deal with my wife for the past six months. She's so dam' good she ought to be fattening. So dedicated she ought to be the leader of a religious order. So skilled she ought to teach classes about teaching classes about all the stuff she can do. (And so sexy, you could cover her in sackcloth and put her in the front row of a church choir and she'd STILL be run out of town on a rail.) She saved lives at the risk of her own, and she kept up the spirits of those around her when anybody would have been forgiven for letting despair beat them down. She led and she was an example. She taught, and was a mentor. You OWE her, unless you've already paid your own bill.

She's home, and so is my son. My flesh and blood is clear of the Land of Blood and Guts, and I think I'm going to go into a new line of work, something that doesn't make me drive home wondering if any of my shortcomings inadvertently hurt somebody, and drive in the next day wondering if today is The Day I'm going to miss that vital detail that has dire and permanent consequences. I no longer have literal skin in this horrible game, and I'm moving on.

'Conflict Resolution Facilitator', perhaps. I won't ask any of you liars for references, though.