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Ironduke
05 Dec 03,, 15:37
Russian 'suicide blast' kills 37

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- A suicide bomber has been blamed by Russian officials for a train blast that killed at least 37 people and injured 177 in the south of the country.

Russia's Interfax news agency reported that the man was helped by three female terrorists, two of whom jumped off the train after Friday's blast near the Chechen border.

One woman was in critical condition with life-threatening injuries, and it was unclear what happened to the other woman, according to the Interfax report.

The male suicide bomber, who had grenades strapped to his legs, died in the blast, Interfax reported.

Russia's security police force, or FSB, said its investigation had turned up the remains of a suicide bomber and a bag or suitcase that contained the explosive materials.

The powerful bomb detonated inside the train's second carriage and the force of the explosion blew people out of it, according to ministry officials. Video of the scene showed the entire carriage mangled from the blast.

Rescue workers struggled to pull victims from the mounds of shattered glass and other debris, hours after the blast.

Some of the victims died after being thrown from the vehicle, while fears were rising that people were still trapped in the wreckage.

A small fire broke out in the electrical wiring, hampering rescue efforts.

"The train was moving and then there was an explosion with smoke and ash about," witness Gleb Kovalenko told Rossiya state television. "It happened inside the carriage."

The Russian prosecutor's office described the explosion as a terrorist act and premeditated murder, and launched a criminal investigation.

Of the wounded, 127 remain in hospital, with 12 in a critical condition.

Security experts in the nearby region of Ingushetia are also checking a vehicle found that was laden with explosives and believed to be destined for a terror attack, Interfax news agency reported.

The incidents came shortly before parliamentary elections throughout Russia.

CNN's Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty said: "The timing is significant because it is just two days away from parliamentary elections in Russia and that always raises the profile of danger in the country.

"There has been concern about terrorism and now we have this attack."

She added that Chechnya had been pushed off the election agenda recently, with economic issues taking center stage, but the troubled breakaway republic was "back on the front pages and TV screens."

Interior Minister Boris Gryzlov, head of the party backed by President Vladimir Putin in Sunday's polls, vowed to track down the perpetrators, saying: "The ground will burn under their feet."

The train was near Yessentuki, traveling from Kislovodsk to Mineralnye Vody in Russia's Stavropol region northwest of the Chechen border, when the blast occurred at 8 a.m. (0500 GMT) Friday.

Dozens were injured, Russia's Ministry for Emergency Situations said.

Because the area has been the site of similar attacks, Russian officials suspect terrorism by Chechen rebels.

It is the second attack on the same stretch of track in three months. In September, an explosion aboard a passenger train near Kislovodsk killed four and wounded dozens.

Security was supposed to have been improved on the line.

Mineralnye Vody, about 890 kilometers (550 miles) south of Moscow, has seen several bus hijackings in the past decade by Chechen rebels demanding the release of jailed comrades.

Two years ago, a stand-off with Chechen hijackers came to an end in the resort town when Russian commandos stormed the bus and rescued more than 40 passengers. One hijacker was killed in the raid.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/12/05/russia.train.blast/index.html

Lunatock
05 Dec 03,, 16:50
The situation has gotten very bad. Chechen's now resorting to suicide bombing. And Russia still sucks at hostage rescue.

Stinger
05 Dec 03,, 17:53
Better for the chechans to try to stay alive... the russians will kill more hostages than a suicide bomber ever could.

Ironduke
06 Dec 03,, 07:08
Putin says bombers will not win

Russia will not be cowed by terror attacks after a bomb on a commuter train killed 42 mainly young people, President Vladimir Putin has said.

Most of the dead and some 200 injured in the rush-hour blast in southern Russia were students going to classes.

Security is being further tightened ahead of Sunday's parliamentary poll.

A minister suggested Chechen rebels were behind the bombing near the town of Yessentuki but Chechnya's separatist leadership in exile denied this.

"We condemn all terror acts and acts of violence... directed against the civilian population," the separatists' foreign ministry said on the rebel website Kavkaz Tsentr.

The entourage of the Chechen rebel president, Aslan Maskhadov, has disowned suicide attacks in the past which sometimes were later claimed by Chechen warlords nominally allied to his cause.

President Putin said the attack was an attempt to destabilise Russia in the run-up to the elections.

Russian Justice Minister Yuri Chaika earlier suggested evidence at the scene pointed to "Chechen terrorism" as a possible theory for the blast which took place in a province which borders the war-ravaged region.

Investigators believe a male suicide attacker and three female accomplices carried out the attack which ripped a packed railway carriage in two as it was travelling through the southern region of Stavropol.

The remains of the suspected bomber were found with grenades still attached to his legs, the head of Russian Federal Security Service, Nikolai Patrushev, said.

He said two of the women had left a large bag in the carriage shortly before the blast and leapt from the train at the last moment.

The third woman - who was reportedly directing the operation - was seriously injured and unlikely to survive, Mr Patrushev added.

Condolences

Thirty five people died at the scene of the blast, reports say.

Many of the bodies have yet to be identified but an incomplete list of the dead released by the authorities shows that most were in their late teens or early twenties.

Russian officials said they were students on their way to colleges of higher education in the nearby town of Pyatigorsk.

The casualties are being treated at hospitals in Yessentuki, Pyatigorsk and Kislovodsk.

President Putin promised that the federal government and regional authorities would "do their utmost to help the blast victims".

"The criminals will achieve nothing," he said as Stavropol declared Monday a day of mourning.

Messages of condolences have flooded in from the United States, Germany, France, Britain and other Western states, as well as the ex-Soviet republic of Ukraine.

"The United States strongly condemns this terrorist act and all acts of terrorism," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said in a statement.

"We stand with the Russian people in their fight against terrorism," the statement said.

Russian Interior Minister Boris Gryzlov vowed to track down the "beasts" behind the explosion, promising that the ground would "burn under their feet".

Shock and bitterness

Doctors treating the casualties said most had no memory of the blast which came after the train had left Yessentuki station, just before 0740 local time (0440 GMT) on Friday.

"No one could tell us what had happened," said one in Yessentuki.

"All they can recall is being thrown about the carriage. The shock waves hurled them against the walls."

There was bitterness, too, among local people that the bombing had not been prevented after two explosions on the same rail service in September which left six people dead.

"People are dying by the dozens and they [the security forces] are doing nothing," said one woman at the scene.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3295803.stm

Bill
06 Dec 03,, 18:30
Am i the only one that doesn't see a good guy on either side here?

They can keep doing us all a favor by killing eachother.

In as large numbers as possible.

Lunatock
06 Dec 03,, 20:46
It's starting to turn out that way. Now that Shamil Basayev is resorting to suicide bombing.

Right up until then. He was even praised by a magazine with ties to the U.S. Army, for his Red ass kicking abilities.

Praxus
06 Dec 03,, 20:51
Am i the only one that doesn't see a good guy on either side here?

They can keep doing us all a favor by killing eachother.

In as large numbers as possible.

A country reverting back to Communism or a Muslim Cluster Fuck of a country. Let them all die.

Confed999
06 Dec 03,, 20:55
Originally posted by M21Sniper
Am i the only one that doesn't see a good guy on either side here?
I don't see a good guy either, but I still hope a peaceful solution is found, no matter how improbable.

bigross86
06 Dec 03,, 20:56
Some might interpret peaceful for in pieces...

Confed999
06 Dec 03,, 21:00
Originally posted by bigross86
Some might interpret peaceful for in pieces...
It would be an incorrect interpretation.

Lunatock
07 Dec 03,, 00:11
Originally posted by Confed999
I don't see a good guy either, but I still hope a peaceful solution is found, no matter how improbable.

It might be possible with Aslan Maskhodov.(sp?) One of the fun little turn of events is the rivalry that developed between Basayev and him.

Also the Chechan villagers, who tend to suffer the most.

Easier targets for the Russains. They get masacred, like in Samashki & Bamu. Chased out of the country. Have thier posessions stolen. And thier homes blown up.

Meanwhile. Basayev is in a mountain fortress, that the Reds can't even get close to.

And now the suicide bombings are doing pretty much the same thing to Russian civi's, that the Russian Army is doing to any Chechen, Rebel or not.

ZFBoxcar
07 Dec 03,, 00:36
A country reverting back to Communism or a Muslim Cluster Fuck of a country. Let them all die.

One thing that gives Putin the legitamacy to partially revert back to Communism (although not even he is gonna go all the way) is the sense of patriotism that the Chechnyans instill the Russians. If the Chechnyan problem went away, there might not be any calls for unity, and less people would sympathize with Putin.

Lunatock
07 Dec 03,, 01:00
The way things are going. And considering it was Yeltsin that gave up last time.
Unless America commits to invading Chechnya..Russia may very well lose this one too.

Without Russia to unify the Chechen Teips, or Clans. They'd probably have a go at each other. It certainly would be a clusterfuck in another way, without Russians occupying.

There's a good chance that the Arab Mercenaries, Mullahs, ect. would want to do away with the Sufi denomination of Islam, and make the Chechens Wahabbist's.

In other words. Chechens would be fighting thier (former) Arab allies. Who'd wish to mold Chechnya to the form they want.

Officer of Engineers
07 Dec 03,, 21:03
The Russians can't give up. It was the Chechen invasion of Dagestan that caused this current war. It's better to fight Chechens in Chechnya instead of on Russian soil.

bigross86
07 Dec 03,, 21:23
How many 'stans are there exactly? Seems every week I hear of a new one.

Ironduke
07 Dec 03,, 21:34
Originally posted by bigross86
How many 'stans are there exactly? Seems every week I hear of a new one.
As far as actual countries go, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Kazahkstan, Turkmenistan, Khyrzygstan, Tajikstan, Afghanistan.

The are other stans though, but they are usually a part of another country, such as Dagestan, Tatarstan in Russia, Kurdistan in Iran, Turkey, Iraq.

NWFP areas of Pakistan are commonly referred to as "Paktuhnistan" "Pashtunistan" etc. The parts of Iran and Pakistan populated by Balochs is referred to as Balochistan.

India is sometimes referred to as Hindustan.

"Stan" just means "land", like Scotland, England, Ireland, Deustchland, Nederland, etc.

Lunatock
07 Dec 03,, 21:39
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
The Russians can't give up. It was the Chechen invasion of Dagestan that caused this current war. It's better to fight Chechens in Chechnya instead of on Russian soil.

That was the work of Basayev & Khattab. That invasion started with Wahabbi's in Dagestan, that didn't want to follow the local laws. So they were kicked out.

But before that. Those three apartment bombings occured. Without an investigation...In fact. The ruins were quickly cleared away by the Russian Federation. And Chechnya was invaded again.

And before that...Chechnya declared itself independant after the Soviet Union collapsed. The newly formed Russian Federation simply said "no". And the first invasion was underway.

Don't overlook the fact that the Kremlin doesn't want to let Chechnya break away from the Russian Federation. Out of fear that all the other small states might do the same.

Officer of Engineers
08 Dec 03,, 00:15
Originally posted by Lunatock
Don't overlook the fact that the Kremlin doesn't want to let Chechnya break away from the Russian Federation. Out of fear that all the other small states might do the same.

Adds to the fact that the Russians could not let Chechnya go. Don't think Putin got the stomache for a Stalin style solution but it wouldn't surprised me if a future Russian leader would repeat that ethnic cleansing/genocide.

Ray
08 Dec 03,, 01:24
Originally posted by ironman420

"Stan" just means "land", like Scotland, England, Ireland, Deustchland, Nederland, etc.

Actually it is sthan. This means 'place'. So, Pakistan would mean Land of the Pure, Pak means Pure. Afghanisthan would mean where Afghans stay and so on.

Lunatock
09 Dec 03,, 20:20
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Adds to the fact that the Russians could not let Chechnya go. Don't think Putin got the stomache for a Stalin style solution but it wouldn't surprised me if a future Russian leader would repeat that ethnic cleansing/genocide.

If I was a betting man. I'd even bet my own soul that if the Russian Federation molds Chechnya to thier liking. They'd still keep the current stanglehold on it.

eMGee
11 Dec 03,, 00:29
Originally posted by Praxus
A country reverting back to Communism or a Muslim Cluster Fuck of a country. Let them all die.

You hate a communist as much as a muslim extremist/fundamentalist? Reagan must be proud of you! :mad:

OKAY, I also don't like communists. I wouldn't want to have them here in Western-Europe. Not even in Russia, because it might "spread" like it did after the second world war.

But when you think of it, during the cold war... did we hear about "communist suicide bombers"? Aside, of course, from some terrorist-groups in Greece [17 November], Germany [Rote Armee Fraction], Italy [Brigate Rosse] and the guerrilla/terrorist attacks done by the Vietcong in Vietnam against American and South-Vietnamese troops. And then, those attacks weren't against civilian targets.

Lunatock
11 Dec 03,, 18:25
Originally posted by eMGee
You hate a communist as much as a muslim extremist/fundamentalist? Reagan must be proud of you! :mad:

Possibly worse. It's the first hatred that really stays with you.

Didn't know about any rewards or making Ex-Presidents proud. But the senior class trip to Lithuania in 93 was very enlightening.

Saw photos of Soviet attrocities, Lithuania's t.v. tower.

Met a Chechen or two for the first time. (Gotta love thier utter refusal to have a hungry guest)

Chechen food = all that & a bottle of Faygo.

Russian food = nightmares about cabbage for a month.

eMGee
11 Dec 03,, 19:28
You sound like an extremely reasonable man... :wacko

Lunatock
11 Dec 03,, 20:59
Originally posted by eMGee
You sound like an extremely reasonable man... :wacko

I AM a reasonable person.

It's not my fault bread line forming Commie trash always gets on the same boat as a large portion of the Middle Eastern People I've met.

russo
13 Dec 03,, 19:58
M21Sniper
>They can keep doing us all a favor by killing eachother.

Would you be offended if someone said that about 9/11? Or about tens of Americans and hundreds of Iraqis who are dying in Iraq every week?

Praxus
>A country reverting back to Communism or a Muslim Cluster Fuck of a country. Let them all die.

Wow. You'de make a very good German citizen in the Holocaust era. You'de probably make very efficient ovens. Or you'de make sure that trains with Jews would get to their designation places on time. Hmm...or maybe you could even work as an SS guard! I think you've got the guts for that.

Lunatock
>Saw photos of Soviet attrocities, Lithuania's t.v. tower.

Exactly what attrocities? And to who? Lithuanians? The country that is currently building monuments to its SS volunteers? How about some of THEIR attrocities during WW2? Heard anything about that?

>Met a Chechen or two for the first time. (Gotta love thier utter refusal to have a hungry guest)

Um, was it in Chechnya? If so, you are lucky that they hadn't kept you as a hostage. Sadly enough, Chechens are not fighting against Russia right now. Bands of thugs who know nothing but war, and a number of terrorists from all over the world are.

>Russian food = nightmares about cabbage for a month.

You're confusing Russia with West Virginia, I believe.

>It's not my fault bread line forming Commie trash always gets on the same boat as a large portion of the Middle Eastern People I've met.

So, who is the "Big Satan" for the Middle Eastern countries? Oddly enough, it's not Russia.

Praxus
13 Dec 03,, 20:24
Wow. You'de make a very good German citizen in the Holocaust era. You'de probably make very efficient ovens. Or you'de make sure that trains with Jews would get to their designation places on time. Hmm...or maybe you could even work as an SS guard! I think you've got the guts for that.

I'm Sorry, unlike some people in this forum I am not an anti-semite.


Would you be offended if someone said that about 9/11? Or about tens of Americans and hundreds of Iraqis who are dying in Iraq every week?

No one can morally equate the lives of Americans with that of Militant Isalmists or Russian pro-communists.

Lunatock
13 Dec 03,, 20:25
Originally posted by russo
Lunatock
>Saw photos of Soviet attrocities, Lithuania's t.v. tower.

Exactly what attrocities? And to who? Lithuanians? The country that is currently building monuments to its SS volunteers? How about some of THEIR attrocities during WW2? Heard anything about that?

Yeah. A few unfortunate citizens of Vilinius. That underestimated the cruelty of Russian tankers.

Second time I've heard this claim, about those awfull Lithuanian's that turned thier back on the wonderfull Communist rule they were priviliged to have forced on the.

Rather than say it. Bring forth some pictures.


>Met a Chechen or two for the first time. (Gotta love thier utter refusal to have a hungry guest)

Um, was it in Chechnya? If so, you are lucky that they hadn't kept you as a hostage. Sadly enough, Chechens are not fighting against Russia right now. Bands of thugs who know nothing but war, and a number of terrorists from all over the world are.

No, a few of them that were living in Vilinius at the time. And thier kindness, unlike thier cruelty. Is miles ahead of Russia's.


>Russian food = nightmares about cabbage for a month.

You're confusing Russia with West Virginia, I believe.

cabbage in hamburgers. cabbage in pancakes. Cabbage soup. cabbage might have been in the coffee & hot chocolate, hadn't anyone asked it not to be.

Another non-proven claim. Think we should let SNS have at this guy, for bashing West Virginia? :devil


>It's not my fault bread line forming Commie trash always gets on the same boat as a large portion of the Middle Eastern People I've met.

So, who is the "Big Satan" for the Middle Eastern countries? Oddly enough, it's not Russia.

It's human nature to hate the top dog. sadly for you. Russia isn't the most hated. Despite thier antics in Chechnya.

russo
13 Dec 03,, 22:02
Praxus

I'm Sorry, unlike some people in this forum I am not an anti-semite.

So, you're saying that while "Kill all the Jews" is wrong, "Kill all the Russians and Muslims" is right?


No one can morally equate the lives of Americans with that of Militant Isalmists or Russian pro-communists

Strangly enough, I can. How is 9/11 different from attacks in Moscow or Istanbul? Explain please

Lunatock

Second time I've heard this claim, about those awfull Lithuanian's that turned thier back on the wonderfull Communist rule they were priviliged to have forced on the.

I am not talking about that. I am talking about thousands of volunteers to the Waffen SS from that country, volunteers that eagerly performed all the normal SS tasks, such as: killing civilians, entorrogating, guarding death camps. Lithuania is buliding memorials to these "freedom fighters." Doesn't that mean anything to you?


No, a few of them that were living in Vilinius at the time. And thier kindness, unlike thier cruelty. Is miles ahead of Russia's.

That's great. Now visit Chechnya, and if you're lucky enough not to get captured by the terrorists there, ask the local people what do they think about the independence. Or you can ask the peopleof Republic of Dagestan, which was attacked by Chechens in 1999.


cabbage in hamburgers. cabbage in pancakes. Cabbage soup. cabbage might have been in the coffee & hot chocolate, hadn't anyone asked it not to be.

Oh god! You've been mugged! That's not Russian at all. My advice to you: don't eat in so-called "Russian restourants" and don't watch the Hollywood production about the Russian food. Wait, the food in these movies is actually pretty good. Where did you get the cabbage theme?


Another non-proven claim. Think we should let SNS have at this guy, for bashing West Virginia?

Haha, you Americans make fun of them all the time. Would you SNS me if I said something about the Canadians?

Plus, don't you think this place will become boring without people like me? "Us rules. Yup. Yup. Russia sucks. Yup. Yup" You need someone to steer up all the excitement! :-)

Lunatock
13 Dec 03,, 22:36
Originally posted by russo
Praxus


So, you're saying that while "Kill all the Jews" is wrong, "Kill all the Russians and Muslims" is right?



Strangly enough, I can. How is 9/11 different from attacks in Moscow or Istanbul? Explain please

Lunatock

No. Killing is killing. In the case of Chechen Rebels vs. Alpha force. Rebels take the hostages. And the majority are executed by the Alpha's.

Istanbul is believed to be Al-Qaeda's handywork. No different from the WTC attacks, Kenya attacks, USS Cole attack, ect.



I am not talking about that. I am talking about thousands of volunteers to the Waffen SS from that country, volunteers that eagerly performed all the normal SS tasks, such as: killing civilians, entorrogating, guarding death camps. Lithuania is buliding memorials to these "freedom fighters." Doesn't that mean anything to you?

Yes! it means your claim will be taken as BS, until some video or pics of that are brought to me.




That's great. Now visit Chechnya, and if you're lucky enough not to get captured by the terrorists there, ask the local people what do they think about the independence. Or you can ask the peopleof Republic of Dagestan, which was attacked by Chechens in 1999.

Don't think I'm crazy for this one. But after reading an interview by Robert Young Pelton. He was shot an e-mail, and asked if he ever made it back to Chechnya. Like he said he'd want to visit again.

No answer. :cry It's not like I'd screw him over like a certain Turkisk Camerman did.

National Geographic Adventure subscription. RYP & Aukai Collins would probably go 'Tock hunting :fear

Well, that and lacking the slimey backstabbing POS qualities of Sadat Ural.

(And I'd still go, at the least risking a "pile on" by Aukai, and maybe a few Rebels. For some jokes at thier expense.)




Oh god! You've been mugged! That's not Russian at all. My advice to you: don't eat in so-called "Russian restourants" and don't watch the Hollywood production about the Russian food. Wait, the food in these movies is actually pretty good. Where did you get the cabbage theme?

No. That was all stuff that was made for us by a nearby cafeteria. Did eat at a few restaurants. Less of a "eat what we make you" sort of thing. The stuff that was made for us had cabbage-a-plenty.

We ordered something from the restaurants. And there was nothing we didn't ask for included.


Haha, you Americans make fun of them all the time. Would you SNS me if I said something about the Canadians?

Plus, don't you think this place will become boring without people like me? "Us rules. Yup. Yup. Russia sucks. Yup. Yup" You need someone to steer up all the excitement! :-)

You get my guarantee that I wouldn't "SNS you" for dissing Canada. (within reason of board rules). Can't say the same thing for OOE.

Last paragraph. same as above. Don't follow in S_Qwert63's & Mayhem's footsteps.

Anyhow. No reply from Robert Young Pelton. Guess that means no ultra risky trip. Just to see some fresh Russian Monsterism's.

But there's still Israel. And hating myself for how slowly the funds are being built up. And in some perfectly good timing...Passport expired this year. :dontcare :brick

russo
14 Dec 03,, 19:01
"No. Killing is killing. In the case of Chechen Rebels vs. Alpha force. Rebels take the hostages. And the majority are executed by the Alpha's."

I had a different occasion in mind. A few years ago two apartment complexes in moscow weree blown up. Around 1000 people died. Now, does that resemble 9/11? Russia and US are in the same boat.

"Yes! it means your claim will be taken as BS, until some video or pics of that are brought to me."

I am extremely sorry! Lithuania has nothing to do with SS monuments. In fact it is Latvia that is building them(http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/92/372/10978_Latvia.html) I apologize again, it's easy to confuse the Baltic states in English for me.

"That was all stuff that was made for us by a nearby cafeteria."

Well, trust me, Russian food is good. But the one they make in cafetirias-yack. I advice to visit some Russian family next time. You will ave the best meal ever, and you even might change your mind about Russians. We're not that bad after all

"Don't follow in S_Qwert63's & Mayhem's footsteps."

I won't. I have nothing against the US, I just don't like when people bash Russia for no reason (or for things that US is doing as well)

Truly yours :-)

Praxus
14 Dec 03,, 19:31
So, you're saying that while "Kill all the Jews" is wrong, "Kill all the Russians and Muslims" is right?

I never said that. Kill all Communist and Militant Islamists and all who support them is right. Kill ALL Muslims and ALL Russians is an act of Genocide unless Russia decides to declare war.

Lunatock
14 Dec 03,, 20:14
Originally posted by russo
"No. Killing is killing. In the case of Chechen Rebels vs. Alpha force. Rebels take the hostages. And the majority are executed by the Alpha's."

I had a different occasion in mind. A few years ago two apartment complexes in moscow weree blown up. Around 1000 people died. Now, does that resemble 9/11? Russia and US are in the same boat.

The apartments did blow up. And a few that pay good attention to detail...found it odd that FSB quickly cleaned up the ruins. And war was declared on Chechnya, without an effort to make a long case of it. Like the U.S. did about Al-Qaeda. (And the Bathe Party)

As far as the opposing sides in Chechnya. Russia is disliked for thier attrocities, and robbing the Chechan Civilians of thier belongings.
Also indiscriminate bombing and artillery strikes in the cities & villages.

Support for Shamail Basayev started to take a nose dive. After forming "The Black Widows". Those Female suicide bombers. At one point, a United States Army owned magazine, spoke highly of him.

Suicide bombings = Basayev being labeled an International Terrorist. And his assest in the States were frozen (provided he had any in the United States.)

Not to mention a videotaped execution of a Russian Soldier, posted in General Images by yours truly.

"Yes! it means your claim will be taken as BS, until some video or pics of that are brought to me."

I am extremely sorry! Lithuania has nothing to do with SS monuments. In fact it is Latvia that is building them(http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/92/372/10978_Latvia.html) I apologize again, it's easy to confuse the Baltic states in English for me.

Apology accepted. Though this will be brought up again, should you grill the U.S. Government for not having thier facts straight.


"That was all stuff that was made for us by a nearby cafeteria."

Well, trust me, Russian food is good. But the one they make in cafetirias-yack. I advice to visit some Russian family next time. You will ave the best meal ever, and you even might change your mind about Russians. We're not that bad after all

The food from the two Restaurants was good. Can't remember the names. But one looked like the space needle in Seatle.

The other looked like a converted bomb shelter. Heavy wooden door. Partially below ground. And looked like a fortress, compared to the rest of the buildings in Vilinius.

Generally. No, Russians are not all bad...outside this board. You can thank Gayhem & Muffin for that generalisation. (Mayhem & Sqwert). The military & Polititans have left a lot to be desired though.



"Don't follow in S_Qwert63's & Mayhem's footsteps."

I won't. I have nothing against the US, I just don't like when people bash Russia for no reason (or for things that US is doing as well)

Truly yours :-)

To be honest. Two Chechan villages, Bamu & Semashki. Are good reasons to hate wehat Russia is doing, this time around. Massacres happend in the War in the Caucascus part 1.

Semashki & Bamu were Chechen villages. And after "mopping up" operations by the Russians. They looked like the Serbs rolled through town.

Unlike the many claims made about IDF, and American Soldiers in Iraq. Someone snapped a pic of the dead villagers in Semashki.

Sike
21 Dec 03,, 02:13
To be honest. Two Chechan villages, Bamu & Semashki. Are good reasons to hate wehat Russia is doing, this time around. Massacres happend in the War in the Caucascus part 1.How many civilian casualties were there in Chechnya, and how many in Yougoslaviya, Afghanistan & Iraq? Just asking. :angel
No one can morally equate the lives of Americans with that of Militant Isalmists or Russian pro-communists.Are you absolutely sure that ALL the Russians killed in that suicide bombing were pro-communists?

You people really need to get rid of this stereotype of all the Russians being drunken communists, wearing those ushankas (http://www.russianisland.com/wwwroot/thumbnails/205-1-05.jpg) and whatever else they show you in the movies, because 99% of it is BS .

Ironduke
21 Dec 03,, 02:23
I wear a ushanka every winter. No joke. Mine was made in Belarus.

Praxus
21 Dec 03,, 02:23
Are you absolutely sure that ALL the Russians killed in that suicide bombing were pro-communists?

Never Said that

Lunatock
21 Dec 03,, 04:19
Originally posted by Sike
You people really need to get rid of this stereotype of all the Russians being drunken communists, wearing those ushankas (http://www.russianisland.com/wwwroot/thumbnails/205-1-05.jpg) and whatever else they show you in the movies, because 99% of it is BS .

Never said that all the Russians are bad. That mostly goes to the Military, FSB, Oman, and Pencil Pushers of the Russian Federation.

There wasss a slight problem...a Russian exchange student, out of a group of three. Couldn't keep his lips off the neck of a local's girlfriend at the time.

But that's just a rare example. Irrelevant to this thread. :)

Ironduke
21 Dec 03,, 05:07
How long were you in Russia, Lunatock?

s_qwert63
21 Dec 03,, 15:45
Originally posted by Ironman
How long were you in Russia, Lunatock?

Lithuania my friend is not Russia.

s_qwert63
21 Dec 03,, 15:47
Originally posted by Praxus
I never said that. Kill all Communist and Militant Islamists and all who support them is right.

Why is that?
So then "Kill ALL Americans Capitalists" would be a correct statement as well, would it not?

s_qwert63
21 Dec 03,, 15:49
Originally posted by Lunatock
To be honest. Two Chechan villages, Bamu & Semashki. Are good reasons to hate wehat Russia is doing

YES YES!
VIVA LE CHECHEN FREEDOM FIGHTING FORCES UNITED UNDER THE FLAG OF GREAT SHAMIL BASAEV!

http://www.fsb.ru/history/book/white/2-3.html
http://www.fsb.ru/history/book/white/2-2.html

Sike
21 Dec 03,, 15:58
Never Said thatUhm, right, you just agreed with Lunatock when he said
They can keep doing us all a favor by killing eachother..

Lunatock
21 Dec 03,, 22:19
Originally posted by Ironman
How long were you in Russia, Lunatock?

I Wasn't in Russia. A few Russians came here. In one night, they showed up at a party that a Marine threw. Laughed at his dogtags. After hearing what they were called.

About an hour & twenty minutes later. (He busted on them for at least an hour for that). One of them got caught messing around with someone else's girl. (Rusty. He's Hispanic, and an amatuer boxer.)

Lead to some less than pleasent moments. Rather than explain the whole thing.

Lunatock
21 Dec 03,, 22:20
Originally posted by s_qwert63
YES YES!
VIVA LE CHECHEN FREEDOM FIGHTING FORCES UNITED UNDER THE FLAG OF GREAT SHAMIL BASAEV!

http://www.fsb.ru/history/book/white/2-3.html
http://www.fsb.ru/history/book/white/2-2.html

http://www.allpest.net/ChangingSubject.jpg

Who let this ignorant piece of shit come back?

Narrow minded twit. Saying that the Russian Army are a bunch of murdering POS's doesn't mean I'm one of Basayev's supporters.

Basayev's been resorting to terrorism as well as Russia.

I was saying it was Russia that took out the first two unsuspecting Villages they passed through at the start of the Chechen war. Early ninties.

Something you seem to condone...Genocide. Despite claiming to know a whole lot of Chechens.

Lunatock
21 Dec 03,, 22:27
Originally posted by s_qwert63
Lithuania my friend is not Russia.

And what gave you the idea I'm your friend?!

kaskad
23 Dec 03,, 05:33
I have a few questions for all the "tough" "BTDT" guys who think they know everything about chechnya and Russia, and all the other places.
Has anyone of you ever fought in Afgan, Dagestan, Karabah, or Chechnya ?
Has anyone in your family (Father, Brother..) fought in any of those places ?
Have you ever been to Russia for more than 5 years ?
Have you ever served in a combat unit ?
Have you ever seen action (don't answer this one, if you answered yes to the first one) ?

My guess is that most (if not all) of you will answer no to all of those questions. Well, in that case, I suggest you keep it quiete, and like you Americans say, get a life.

Regards,
kaskad

Lunatock
23 Dec 03,, 05:46
Originally posted by kaskad
I have a few questions for all the "tough" "BTDT" guys who think they know everything about chechnya and Russia, and all the other places.
Has anyone of you ever fought in Afgan, Dagestan, Karabah, or Chechnya ?
Has anyone in your family (Father, Brother..) fought in any of those places ?
Have you ever been to Russia for more than 5 years ?
Have you ever served in a combat unit ?
Have you ever seen action (don't answer this one, if you answered yes to the first one) ?

My guess is that most (if not all) of you will answer no to all of those questions. Well, in that case, I suggest you keep it quiete, and like you Americans say, get a life.

Regards,
kaskad

No.

No. None of those places. Just in Europe. And during the Marine Occupation of Mogadishu (really wasn't a fight until the UN took over)

No. But not because I'd rather sit on my behind.

Been to Lithuania. Saw exactly what kind of people Russian Military can be.

Any & All of my info about Chechnya came from info by Robert Young Pelton, Khassan Baiev, and Aukai Collins. Who've been to Chechnya. Worked as a Doctor there, and fought there.

All of whom were able to get a good look at more and worse Russian attrocites than what went down in Vilnius.

And finally. Aren't you a spunky one? Coming here and acting all manly...trying to push us around like that?

kaskad
23 Dec 03,, 06:00
If you will read the first 2 pages (I'm sure you have alrready done that), you will clearly see who is a spunky one in here.

Regards,
kaskad

Lunatock
23 Dec 03,, 06:31
Yes I read them. And yes I know. Sqwert and all the troll creatures he keeps brining here.

kaskad
23 Dec 03,, 06:47
What are the "troll creatures" if you don't mind me asking ?

Regards,
kaskad

Ironduke
23 Dec 03,, 07:06
Originally posted by kaskad
What are the "troll creatures" if you don't mind me asking ?

Regards,
kaskad
Trolls are people who register on this forum for the sole purpose of starting flamewars.

kaskad
23 Dec 03,, 08:23
Well, I don't intend to start a flame war, unlike some..

Regards,
kaskad

666
23 Dec 03,, 10:12
Why don't you start talking about Israelis killing Palestinians? Why don't you start talking about USA nuking Japan? Why don't we talk about Yougoslavia? Vietnam? Iraq? Korea? Egypt? Afganistan? Tell me how many people americans killed during all the wars THEY decided to "stop"? You think the entire world just forgot? I don't think so... I think they still remember and wait for the right moment. I might even be lucky to see the day when there would be no such country as USA. You want to see videos of usmc shooting death of wounded man in Iraq and cheering afterwords? If you want I will get you a link for that...
Or I can post a link to a video taped by us soldiers in Afganistan while their base is being bombarded by mortars and they just laugh and make jokes about it.
You guys still feel good about killing 5 of your buddies, Canadians for no reason? Or about constant killing of kids in Afganistan as a "mistake".
What would you say if some idiots in states would start blowing places up because govermnent didn't want to let them to form an independant republic? You'd strt screaming here about going and killing them all. And I'll tell you something. Things moving fast from South. LA is a gang city already, what's next? In 20-25 years whole country will be one big dumpster. You will see them putting a bullet in your white behinds for a freaking 5 bucks. I'll look at you talking about Russian terrorists than. Soon they are going to make USA part of Mexico or Jamaica:) Maybe Canada will get lucky and pocket some land from the North:)

P.S I do not understand how a person who said about "they all must die" became a moderator on this board in the first place... On the boards where I usually talk to people, individuals get banned right away for something like that...

Whats really hard to understand is why your so deluded about the facts. And following in Sqwert's footsteps. Attacking moderators. Now run along & worship your lifesize statue of Micheal Moore

Stinger
23 Dec 03,, 14:10
Hey Kaskad, this guy 666 is an example of a troll.

666
23 Dec 03,, 20:50
2 whoever wrote in my post. What should I go with if not facts than:)? I think you don't like to read facts about your country, eh:)? But facts are facts and there is nothing you can do about it. Btw, I'm not following anybodys footsteps. All I did was expressing my own opinion about states. I know Sqwert's from other board, but we never talked about anything with that guy.

2 Stinger, what would you say if I'd post something in support of USA? Probably something like way to go man:) Why don't you prove that I'm a troll instead of just saying it?

Stinger
23 Dec 03,, 20:54
Originally posted by 666
2 whoever wrote in my post. What should I go with if not facts than:)? I think you don't like to read facts about your country, eh:)? But facts are facts and there is nothing you can do about it. Btw, I'm not following anybodys footsteps. All I did was expressing my own opinion about states. I know Sqwert's from other board, but we never talked about anything with that guy.

2 Stinger, what would you say if I'd post something in support of USA? Probably something like way to go man:) Why don't you prove that I'm a troll instead of just saying it? You wrote your post in a manner that was not only inflammatory but you A. admited that it was indeed intended to be inflammatory, and B. Attacked a respected moderator. That is troll like behavoir

Lunatock
23 Dec 03,, 21:29
Well said Birthday boy. :)

But wasn't it Snipe he attacked? Perhaps stepping off to the side, so he has a clear path to this troll?

Confed999
23 Dec 03,, 23:12
Originally posted by kaskad
Have you ever been to Russia for more than 5 years ?
WOW! In Russia you have to live some place for 5 years before you can have, and express, an opinion on said place? So how many years have you lived in the United States? If it's less than 5 years, and I'm 100% certain it is, then you have no right to talk about Americans. We aren't hampered by your rules though. We are allowed, and expected, to have any opinion we want. We're even allowed to express that opinion, as long as it doesn't interfere with another's rights. On this forum you don't have to blindly follow the Russian rules, you can tell us what you know, or believe, about any situation. I promise we won't inform on you. You may even be able to teach others what you've seen, and get them talking about it, instead of insulting people, telling them to be quiet and to get a life. Nothing is ever solved by quiet, and everyone has a life.


Originally posted by 666
Why don't you start talking about Israelis killing Palestinians? Why don't you start talking about USA nuking Japan? Why don't we talk about Yougoslavia? Vietnam? Iraq? Korea? Egypt? Afganistan?

I'm pretty sure I've seen all of those things discussed here, along with a myriad of othere topics. Maybe you should try reading more than one thread.


Originally posted by 666
I do not understand how a person who said about "they all must die" became a moderator on this board in the first place... On the boards where I usually talk to people, individuals get banned right away for something like that...

People can't have a "f**k them" attitude on the boards you're used to? But.... Didn't you just do the same thing?

Originally posted by 666
I might even be lucky to see the day when there would be no such country as USA.
Looks like you did. Want more proof you're a troll, or were those 2 things enough?

666
24 Dec 03,, 10:23
2 Confed999,
1. I never said "kill all Americans" I just said that I do not support America in what they are doing in some countries and that I hope to see a day when there would be no US as it is right now. The reason being, US in it's present form started or got involved in too many wars in this century. And it looks like every time they get involved regular people suffer instead of "bad guys". Like I already said look at all past wars. Where did US acheved their goal? All they did was go in, make their war machine even bigger and get out with blood and death on their hands.
2. On boards where I usually post people get banned right on the spot for saying "kill all ....." I think that things like that don't make any good for a board and should be enforced by moderators. In this case moderator was the one who wrote a hatred post...
3. I wasn't the first one to posted in "kill 'em all" manner.
But, since you decided to use that as a proof of me being a troll maybe we should start calling your moderator the same way too? Don't you think it's going be fair?

2 Stinger, honestly I have ro respect for a person who could say something like that. I replyed not to start a fight with him, I posted to express my opinion about his hatred post.

P.S BTW, If you guys think that a lot of people support your country you are wrong. You want to see a proof of that? I can put some pics from anti-us rally in Toronto where we had about 10000 people.

Stinger
24 Dec 03,, 13:38
what does fair have to do with anything? We opperate in a very simple fashion here, if you don't like the way the place is run leave. If you piss off the admin and mods then they make you leave. So if you decide to stick around you play by our rules we do not change them for you. see you later Kettle.

Confed999
24 Dec 03,, 14:58
Originally posted by 666
2 Confed999,
1. I never said "kill all Americans"
I didn't say you did.

Originally posted by 666
I hope to see a day when there would be no US.
But you'll have to kill most of us to see that statement come true, so you still wished the same thing. You put in the "as it is right now" to cover your butt, be honest with yourself and admit you just wished the deaths of millions. If we ban one for this, both must be banned.


Originally posted by 666
Where did US acheved their goal? All they did was go in, make their war machine even bigger and get out with blood and death on their hands.
So, you think the people here set US foreign policy? You think insulting us and our country will do anything except get you kicked out of here? Grow up, set your partisan politics bs aside, and try to do more good than harm.


Originally posted by 666
2. On boards where I usually post people get banned right on the spot for saying "kill all ....." I think that things like that don't make any good for a board and should be enforced by moderators.
His post was not a personal attack, it was a general statement. There isn't anything wrong with that. It looks like you should go back to the boards you're used to, because here we have the right to speak our minds.


Originally posted by 666
3. I wasn't the first one to posted in "kill 'em all" manner.
But, since you decided to use that as a proof of me being a troll maybe we should start calling your moderator the same way too? Don't you think it's going be fair?
I responded to your charge, not what either of you said. Your charge is part 2 of why you're a troll, I take it you agree with part 1 since you didn't dispute it.


Originally posted by 666
I replyed not to start a fight with him, I posted to express my opinion about his hatred post.
All of your posts have been hate the US posts and you really think you're better?


Originally posted by 666
from anti-us rally in Toronto where we had about 10000 people.
If it was an "anti-us" rally, and not an anti-war rally, then those people are just as hateful as you. Everytime I start to feel bad about voting to move my supply contracts out of Canada, someone like you, and your rally story, comes along and makes it all better.

666
25 Dec 03,, 01:01
People do have influence on government policies. Instead of supporting wars and killing people can go against it.

Bud, I don't think that I can get kicked out from this board or any other board. It's kinda hard to get rid of somebody if person doesn't want to go. But I'll go anyways. Because I came to this board to take a look what was going on.I've seen links to this board in half of a dozen other forums from Europe. Most of the time topic with the link was called something like "take a look at american stupidity", so I just decided to take a look myself. And now I've seen just about enough.

Dosvidaniya yanki :)

P.S Good luck in your war against the rest of the world. See how long you going to last.
I'm out of this place.

Ironduke
25 Dec 03,, 03:40
BS.

We can track all forums that link to this website, the number is under half a dozen, none of which are European.

And believe me, we can get rid of anybody we want to.

Confed999
25 Dec 03,, 21:31
Originally posted by 666
People do have influence on government policies.
Yes, people do have influence. How do you think an American would use his influnce after reading your posts? Even if I agree with you, I would go against you to disassociate myself from you.

Originally posted by 666
Instead of supporting wars and killing people can go against it.
So, instead of fighting tyrants, dictators and terrorists we should just let them do what they want? If that's your position, then the people they torture and kill are your responsability. I would much rather be responsable for the deaths of some in the hopes of removing the threat, instead of being responsable for decades of killing. I'm sure the reality is that you only care for yourself and those deaths mean nothing to you.

Originally posted by 666
Bud, I don't think that I can get kicked out from this board or any other board. It's kinda hard to get rid of somebody if person doesn't want to go.
I am most definately not your "Bud", and I've heard that before, wonder where those people are now?

Originally posted by 666
And now I've seen just about enough.

Dosvidaniya yanki :)
Goodbye!!!

Originally posted by 666
P.S Good luck in your war against the rest of the world. See how long you going to last.
Nobody here is at war with the world, just scum bag tyrants, dictators and terrorists. Hopefully it will last long enough to set just a little more of the world free. Make sure you never take any credit for their freedom either. If you meet an Iraqi you make sure you tell him you wish he was still under the rule of Saddam, maybe spit on him too to make your point more clear. It's fine to be anti-war but people will still die, often times more than with intervention. At least we'll be able to say we tried to stop it, even if we fail.

Ironduke
18 Jan 04,, 03:58
Been trimming the membership rolls, 666 was one to go. I should have nuked him earlier, 666 is just a downright stupid username to have.

Praxus
21 Jan 04,, 00:53
Watch out, he is the devil!

eMGee
21 Jan 04,, 00:59
Michael Moore?

Confed999
21 Jan 04,, 01:03
Originally posted by eMGee
Michael Moore?
He said devil, not dildo.

Bill
31 Jan 04,, 13:43
I thought I was the Devil???

Anvilanthony
08 Feb 04,, 18:38
Lets just get back to the topic on hand, Russia's struggle with their islamic residents(kinda like the up and comming one with france) and how they are trying to deal with it.

I do agree with Sniper, both sides are commiting genocide, but still there are some innocent chechen muslims being caught in the crossfire. So please kind sirs, don't wish death to anyone you don't know. Only recently did I become a pacifist, I think wishing for death for someone is just as bad as killing. I mean you don't know what their situation is so don't pass judgement, they're only doing what they think is good for their nation like what we are doing for ours in Iraq and afghanistan.

eMGee
08 Feb 04,, 18:53
Your avatar is stupid... oh wait, never mind.

Lunatock
08 Feb 04,, 19:18
Originally posted by Anvilanthony
Lets just get back to the topic on hand, Russia's struggle with their islamic residents(kinda like the up and comming one with france) and how they are trying to deal with it.

Of course france has managed to get on the bad side of Muslims and Sikh's with thier new law outlawing Religous symbols. Namely Muslim Hijabs and Sikh turbans.

eMGee
08 Feb 04,, 19:20
For once I thought France did something great... now this guy's telling us they've gotten on their "bad" side, lol!

What does this mean to you? That they can start suicide attacks in France now??!

Lunatock
08 Feb 04,, 19:34
Sorry troll creature, but I don't support suicide attacks.

Btw...don't be a stupid stoner clone of Sqwert. :mad:

eMGee
08 Feb 04,, 20:12
Ah hell, I don't care what you think really. I support France in this FULLY :D

smilingassassin
09 Feb 04,, 02:38
While I may not be PC kinda guy I DO find alot said in this forum incredibly unbeleivable. Like any war there are two opposing factions each with a cause they fight for. Inevitably this leads to some animosity and eventually atrocity's.
When I see pictures of leveled towns I get mad, when I see video's and Images of Russian soldiers and civilians being beheaded my blood boils. When I see images of the WTC being struck by two planes and tumble down to the ground I litterally cry, and being a man thats hard for me to admit. When I hear that yet another american soldier has died in Iraq or one of my canadian brethern has died in Afganistan I shake my head in disgust.
Bottom line is russia, the U.S. and the rest of the world is in a war against Muslim radicals, who would like to tarnish the Image of Islam and attempt to rally all muslims to create a world of death and distruction. They do not respect human life, and everytime we subit to our racist generalizing ways we let them win. Kill all Muslims.....they one another battle....Kill all comunists.....theres another victory......the war in iraq was immoral.......you people need to check your heads.
I was a pacifist before 9/11, now I see how utterly useless the UN was...nothing more than a glorified appeasement summit. I've since taken a radical shift to the right. Going into Iraq was the right thing just as Russia going into chechnya was the right thing....you don't go and murder inocent civilians in suicide bombings and expect the "good guys" to go in all rosey, war is hell and for far too long the world has taken the peacenik stance of make love not war to the point of letting tyrants walk all over us and abuse the wil of the world. As sad as it is we are in yet another war of religions and all those who truely want peace are caught in the middle and slaughtered because they believe in the same relegion as some nut job.

Officer of Engineers
09 Feb 04,, 02:48
Gee, you would hate Yugoslavia.

Facist Croats, Communist Serbs, and Muslims. And Ottawa stuck us right in the middle.

To be fair though, the UN is not totally worthless IF AND ONLY IF the ground cmdrs got the balls to do the right thing. Canadian Gen Lewis MacKenzie at Sarajevo, French General Jean Cot at Medac, Indian General Vijay Jettley in Seirra Leonne made their marks.

Anvilanthony
09 Feb 04,, 05:34
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Gee, you would hate Yugoslavia.

Facist Croats, Communist Serbs, and Muslims. And Ottawa stuck us right in the middle.

To be fair though, the UN is not totally worthless IF AND ONLY IF the ground cmdrs got the balls to do the right thing. Canadian Gen Lewis MacKenzie at Sarajevo, French General Jean Cot at Medac, Indian General Vijay Jettley in Seirra Leonne made their marks.

The only reason why it doesn't work is because of nations like France and Germany which want nothing to do in the world, this whole failure with Iraq falls on the UN and its inability to inforce its own resolutions.

The US should create a new UN of countries that are actually also willing to change the world instead of sitting in their bunkers sipping french wine.

eMGee
09 Feb 04,, 05:41
Sipping French wine? And what about doing business with Saddam Hussein? Just like Germany and Russia did.

Heh, while all those anti-war/pro-Saddam protestors say things in the lines of: "EVIL AMERICA, DOING IT FOR THE OIL!" and such...

Officer of Engineers
09 Feb 04,, 06:19
Originally posted by Anvilanthony
The only reason why it doesn't work is because of nations like France and Germany which want nothing to do in the world, this whole failure with Iraq falls on the UN and its inability to inforce its own resolutions.

The US should create a new UN of countries that are actually also willing to change the world instead of sitting in their bunkers sipping french wine.

You're talking out of your ass.

France was making the UN work long before the Iraq thing. The three largest force contributors to UNPROFOR was the UK, France, and Canada. We've bled and shed too much blood in that much mud. And I mean we as those of us who wore a uniform.

And btw, French and German soldiers have died in Afghanistan, supporting the War on Terror. Both are more than willing to do their part in changing the world.

Lunatock
09 Feb 04,, 17:09
Originally posted by eMGee
Ah hell, I don't care what you think really. I support France in this FULLY :D

Carefull EMG. That disease that plagues thier people, Surrenderitis. Is highly contagious.

But joking aside. It would appear that France took a step closer to Communism with this law that limits religous freedoms.

Cheese eating surrender commies?

eMGee
09 Feb 04,, 17:15
What the fuck is it with you? Rags are purely political, because even in Turkey, where 99% of the population is muslim, you aren't allowed to wear a rag at work, court etc.

There are plenty of people in France that think it's not even going far enough, a lot of muslims (probably apostates?) too. Because long beards etc. would still be accepted.

Lunatock
09 Feb 04,, 17:23
Originally posted by eMGee
What the fuck is it with you? Rags are purely political, because even in Turkey, where 99% of the population is muslim, you aren't allowed to wear a rag at work, court etc.

There are plenty of people in France that think it's not even going far enough, a lot of muslims (probably apostates?) too. Because long beards etc. would still be accepted.

First of all. You getting close to crossing the do not disrespect moderators line.

I do believe I've got a real problem with not being biased against each and every last Muslim.

Coupled with being a firm believer in the United States Consitution which among other things, gives US citizens freedom of religion. It also won't force Muslima's to take off Hajib's, Sikh's don't have to take off thier turbans, and David Boreanaz & James Marsters can protray vampires & get burned by a cross without getting jumped by anti-religion enforcers on the set of Angel.