Can All Be Forgiven?

[THL]

I am watching some show about inmates. This one inmate just asked a hypothetical: "Is it a greater sin to steal a cracker or to kill someone?"

So from a religious POV - Do you all think that each of the 10 commandments carry a value or weight? Is it more okay to steal (a cracker for example) over killing (any other living being - a cat or a person). Will a more socially acceptable "sin" be looked upon better than a less acceptable one? Can ALL sins be forgiven? Can murderers ask for forgiveness and get into heaven (whatever heaven may be for you personally and whoever it is you would ask for forgiveness from)?

[Bill]

You've been smokin' those funny 'cigarettes' again, havn't ya miss? ;)

[bonehead]

God is forgiving. People are usually less forgiving. Sin is sin. To say one sin is less or more than another is only our way of justifying our actions that we know are wrong.

[Horrido]

Of course I'll forgive them... After they're dead.

[Samudra]

God is forgiving. People are usually less forgiving. Sin is sin. To say one sin is less or more than another is only our way of justifying our actions that we know are wrong.

Define sin.

[ZFBoxcar]

I think from the religious perspective of Judaism, murder is a worse sin, not because it says so specifically (although it might somewhere, I don't know), but because one is allowed to break all other Jewish laws in order to save a life. I interpret this to mean that taking a life is the worst sin you can commit, since you are allowed to commit any other sin in order to save a life.

[THL]

Define sin.

I am using the 10 commandments as a basis for sin here. Pretty much most religions, while they may not call them the 10 commandments and there may be more or less than 10, have the same "basic" rules for living that religion. So you can use whatever sin means to you.

[RustyBattleship]

I am using the 10 commandments as a basis for sin here. Pretty much most religions, while they may not call them the 10 commandments and there may be more or less than 10, have the same "basic" rules for living that religion. So you can use whatever sin means to you.

In what language are the commandments written in that you are going by? All English translations are INCORRECT in their definition of the word "kill". In Hebrew (a much earlier recording of the tablets of Moses), "kill" is the same word for ALL forms of killing EXCEPT they are differentieated by a code of dots (similar to German Umlauts) over the word. In the original Hebrew text, the meaning is "Murder" or to kill for selfish reasons. To kill in defense of oneself or others is coded differently as well as to kill while performing the duties of a soldier.

Unfortunately, the old saying "Lost in Translation" is true. The Bible is a collection of records and prophecies written in Aramic and Hebrew with the New Testiment written in Hebrew and Latin. The the whole collection was translated into Latin. Then the German printing press inventor Guttenburg translated it into German. From there it was translated again into English. Then King James of England deleted a couple of books to allow him to get a divorce. Then in America attempts at retranslating from archaic English to Amer-English has only been met with limited success. Then the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls provided more corrections. The most dramatic being the height of Goliath from 9-foot 3-inches to just over 6-foot (still a "giant" for that era but NOT unusal for average citizens of Goth where he came from).

This all boils down to MY answer to your question of what is "sin". To me the worst sin is INTOLERANCE. You must be open minded to all concepts and desires. You do NOT have to follow desires or religious beliefs of other people. However you have NO right to force them to follow yours. That is the main problem with the intolerant Muslims of today (as well as during the Crusades) and hopefully will be the cause of their downfall.

Just in today's paper it was announced that the high court of Afghanastan is seriously considering dropping all charges AND the death penalty of a native Afghan. His crime? He converted from Islam to Christianity which carries the death penalty by Muslim definition.

[Asim Aquil]

I'd say it all depends upon the truthfulness of the repent.

Even if its a murderer whose repent and makes amends, God might forgive their souls or at least lessen their punishment. The soul purpose as defined by most religions of human beings in life is to serve a test.

However I remember long back you said "what about the catholics who go and confess every sunday and commit those deeds again" (something like that?). Think about it, is it really repentence? However their belief is that God is ever forgiving, and so you may ask for forgiveness countless number of times.

But then you might end up committing another sin, to presume you're smarter than God and to pull a fast one over him. So it all depends upon how much a person has thought over the matter.

In Islam, there's a similar forgiveness concept, however God says that he'd be ready to forgive all kinds of sins of man that he's committed towards God, but would not forgive those committed against another human being. They have to be forgiven by that human being.

[Ray]

Even if its a murderer whose repent and makes amends, God might forgive their souls or at least lessen their punishment. The soul purpose as defined by most religions of human beings in life is to serve a test.

Sadly, none on Earth can see what the punishment was meted and how it was lessened.

But of course to those who have left their lives and destiny in the hands of an Unknown and Unseen Being, I am sure that should bring some solace.

However I remember long back you said "what about the catholics who go and confess every sunday and commit those deeds again" (something like that?). Think about it, is it really repentence?

Again, this brings in the fact that religion is to bring social law and order.

Now, if there is no loophole to escape, then the "sinner" would go straight back to sinning. But the fear and the hope is allowed to seep in and so the "sinner' most of the times takes a break, before going back to "sinning".

However their belief is that God is ever forgiving, and so you may ask for forgiveness countless number of times.

That's the fun about religion. You can con the "God", whoever that be. And priest can con you that you are "forgiven".

[agent6]

Sin is sin no matter how it is looked upon. Stealing a cracker and killing a hundred people is all the same according to the bible. We make killing worse in our society because we don't want to be killed. A cracker can be replaced over and over and over again. But a human being's life is ireplacable.

IMHO

[Asim Aquil]

In Shakespeare's Hamlet, Claudius, the villain, goes to his prayer room and confesses to God his sins.

Why'd Shakespeare not use that to express the fact that Justice has been done (even though as per Shakespeare's religion that would've been the practice)? Well simply put at that moment, Claudius doesn't ask for justice. He asks for forgiveness. For justice would be to be punished for killing King Hamlet, while he just wants to be forgiven. He has no rement, just fear.

Why would God forgive such a man?

[bonehead]

In Shakespeare's Hamlet, Claudius, the villain, goes to his prayer room and confesses to God his sins.

Why'd Shakespeare not use that to express the fact that Justice has been done (even though as per Shakespeare's religion that would've been the practice)? Well simply put at that moment, Claudius doesn't ask for justice. He asks for forgiveness. For justice would be to be punished for killing King Hamlet, while he just wants to be forgiven. He has no rement, just fear.

Why would God forgive such a man?

God knows men's hearts as we never will.

[bonehead]

Define sin.

An offence to God.

[THL]

However I remember long back you said "what about the catholics who go and confess every sunday and commit those deeds again" (something like that?). Think about it, is it really repentence? However their belief is that God is ever forgiving, and so you may ask for forgiveness countless number of times.

I wish I had your memory, Asim.

I did say that and I feel the same yet today. This is part of why I left Christianity and converted to Buddhism...we do not apologize for what we do...for our "sins". We accept them, know that the Karmic forces that be will find us, and move on.

Sin is sin no matter how it is looked upon. Stealing a cracker and killing a hundred people is all the same according to the bible. We make killing worse in our society because we don't want to be killed. A cracker can be replaced over and over and over again. But a human being's life is ireplacable.

IMHO

THIS is what I was looking for. So all sins are on the same level spiritually, it is just us fine humans that make one worse than another? I believe a little differently: as I mentioned I am buddhist and have been taught basically that what you do comes back to get you...maybe in another life, maybe tomorrow, maybe next week...but it will come back. (Before I have anyone correcting me on Karma, I know this is VERY basic and slightly "incorrect", but it is the easiest way I have found to explain my personal understanding of what I have been taught).