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  • Criminal Trial – 6th Amendment Denied

    CRIMINAL charges for accidentally shooting deer. Denied counsel & jury trial.

    Any help appreciated!

    www.criminalhunter.com
    scott

    ps- i reported the mistake myself. they took the deer and my hunting tag... what more do they want? i could have a criminal record for life!



    www.freestateproject.org
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  • #2
    Oh, the tryanny
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, in five minutes of research on the internet I was able to find the controlling case law vice the right to a trial by jury.

      My guess is that you spent a little more time than 5 minutes building your website to decry the tryanny. You should try doing more research in the future. It's a better deal than Geico, where you have to spend 15 minutes to save 15% or more

      With another five minutes of research, I figured out that you committed a class 2 misdemeanor, which carries a maximum of four months jail, meaning that you don't qualify for a trial by jury. Still less time than it takes for Geico.

      http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/ht...rag3_user.html

      Criminal Proceedings to Which the Guarantee Applies.—Although the Sixth Amendment provision does not differentiate among types of criminal proceedings in which the right to a jury trial is or is not present, the Court has always excluded petty offenses from the guarantee in federal courts, defining the line between petty and serious offenses either by the maximum punishment available65 or by the nature of the offense.66 This line has been adhered to in the application of the Sixth Amendment to the States67 and the Court has now held “that no offense can be deemed ‘petty’ for purposes of the right to trial by jury where im[p.1411]prisonment for more than six months is authorized.”68 A defendant who is prosecuted in a single proceeding for multiple petty offenses, however, does not have a constitutional right to a jury trial, even if the aggregate of sentences authorized for the offense exceeds six months.6
      Also, it sounds like you want a public defender appointed for you. Can you show me where the Constitution states that one will be provided for everybody free of cost? I missed that part. Are you a socialist and want everything handed to you? If you don't want to pay, then provide the information so that you aren't free riding on other's tax dollars.

      Quite trying to act like a martyr - you broke the law, go to court, plead guilty, and pay your fine. Just because you turned yourself in doesn't mean that you shouldn't be held responsible for your actions.
      Last edited by Shek; 03 Mar 06,, 14:02.
      "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's the controlling case law over the right to counsel:

        http://www.nlada.org/About/About_HistoryDefender

        When you actually do research and read, you'll find that a state appointed lawyer is provided to those who cannot afford counsel. Thus, the controlling language absolutely allows states to regulate how they determine whether a person can or cannot afford counsel. Thus, it is completely consistent with the Constitution and Constitutional law for the state to ask you to disclose your financial details so it can determine whether or not it is reasonable to classify you as being unable to pay for counsel yourself.

        What is ironic here is that you want to be a lawyer.
        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

        Comment


        • #5
          I actually read your ramblings about the incident and noticed that you hit the doe while aiming at the male. My advice would be to do additional training at a range prior to the next time you go hunting so that you hit your target.
          "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by scott talbert
            CRIMINAL charges for accidentally shooting deer. Denied counsel & jury trial.

            Any help appreciated!

            www.criminalhunter.com
            scott

            ps- i reported the mistake myself. they took the deer and my hunting tag... what more do they want? i could have a criminal record for life!



            www.freestateproject.org
            I spent the morning reading all your data, and I found that to begin with, law enforcement were well within the realm of the law to cite you. If they had not, they probably been warned for not citing you. They were also well within the law to confiscate the carcass, and take your license until further investigation. The citation states exactly the occurrences you say happened, and it goes further to say that you were "very cooperative" with the officers.

            Therefore, the procedures of the citation were legitimate, but to dispose of it, you have to appear in court, to either clear yourself, or take your medicine so you aren't so careless next time. This case could easily be disposed of by a bench trial, so as not to burden the taxpayers with a lengthy jury trial. It is also procedure to prove your financial status before you can utilize a court-appointed attorney, so as to protect taxpayers from fraud.

            You may personally feel that you should not have to pay the expense of an attorney, but taxpayers did not shoot the wrong deer either, did they? ;) You are the one who got yourself into that situation, and if you are financially capable, it may be up to you to get yourself out.

            As to applications, I have never seen any asking if you have been "charged" of a crime.....only if you have been convicted of one. Otherwise, that would be discriminatory.

            This case is not comparable to the Cheney shooting, although it did involve a human being, and was a more serious situation. Although I do not like Cheney at all, the man he shot was also at fault. As far as I'm concerned, two very old men doesn't even need to be on the streets driving, much less in the woods shooting guns at moving targets. ;)

            My advice?

            Buy you a box of kleenex, and drink some milk to strengthen that backbone, because if you are crying this many tears over such a minor case, you had better "buck-up" if you are anticipating becoming any kind of a successful lawyer. :)

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh, Goodie. Another one escapes the funny farm and finds his way here.


              Scott, just pay your fine and go on. It's not that serious. The time you have spent searching the internet for people to back you could have been spent working a part time job to pay for your fine.
              "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

              "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

              "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

              "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

              Comment


              • #8
                It's tyranny dude.

                Rise up and rage against the machine.

                Line the streets of your town with the innards of your oppressors.

                Blah.

                Blah.

                Blah, blah, blah.

                Comment


                • #9
                  So the moral of the story is...

                  Don't cooperate with the police the next time you accidently kill something. Just leave it and take off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shek
                    four months jail
                    Sounds tyrannical to me. A wee bit too Sheriff of Nottingham...
                    Originally posted by Wooglin
                    So the moral of the story is...

                    Don't cooperate with the police the next time you accidently kill something. Just leave it and take off.
                    That's what I get from it too.
                    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Jack-ass didn't check his backstop and popped a doe. Lucky he didn't pull a Cheney and whack his hunting partner (I assume he wasn't smarter about that and they still haven't located the body. This just goes to prove that some people should NOT posess firearms, and that's comming from a vehemently RABID pro-Second Ammendment advocate.
                      The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.

                      I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Confed,
                        If you read his sob story on his website, you'll find out that he turned down a bargain from the DA for just a fine. He doesn't want the misdemeanor on his record, and he wasn't willing to pay for a class that would strike it from his open file. He chose to go to court because he wants the judge to not put the crime on his record.

                        Thus, the four months maximum that I mention is just that - the maximum punishment available as a potential deterrent against jacka$$es that want to hunt doe and put the deer population out of whack because they can't reproduce. It is certainly possible that someone who is just a bad shot with no intent on killing a deer could get the same punishment, but that's not the case here. I'm just not seeing any tyranny in the case whatsoever.

                        As far as lessons learned, these are what I draw from the incident:

                        1. If you are a shytty shot, then don't shoot at game when you have prohibited game standing right next to your target.

                        2. If you commit a crime, then don't whine about how it is going to go onto your record. That's great that he turned himself in, but he seems to have the expectation that that means he didn't really do the crime and somehow deserves special treatment as a martyr. Intent is not an element of his crime. He was given an opportunity to pay his fine, have it buried on his restricted record, and move on. Instead, he's turned that opportunity down to fight for non-existent rights.

                        3. If you are planning on applying for law school, demonstrate some lawyerly potential and actually research all your rights that the Constitution actually provides so that you don't look like a dumb a$$ asserting non-existent rights. If I were on an admissions committee, I'd look at his whining and ignorant legal arguments and shoot down his application on the spot. If he were some 21 year old who may not have as much life experience, I may cut some slack, but a 34 year old ought to be able to demonstrate more research ability than this guy has.
                        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My question is:

                          Should somebody post his website at a PETA discussion forum?
                          "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why do you suppose he did not just pick up the doe and go home? Did he really think the game warden was going to tell him to go back and try again for the buck after he turned in a doe carcass?
                            "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

                            "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

                            "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

                            "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TopHatsLiberal
                              Why do you suppose he did not just pick up the doe and go home? Did he really think the game warden was going to tell him to go back and try again for the buck after he turned in a doe carcass?
                              He was doing the right thing when he informed the game warden. However, it appears that his motivation wasn't because he wanted to do the right thing, but because he expected a reward out of it, i.e. special treatment in regards to the law.
                              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                              Comment

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