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Ironduke
16 Nov 03,, 17:30
Russian army 'sick and hungry'

The average Russian soldier is sick and hungry, according to a report by Human Rights Watch in Moscow.

Conscript soldiers, the reports says, are routinely denied access to adequate food and medical care.


Human Rights Watch is calling on the Russian government to examine the findings, warning that poor nutrition threatens the military's fighting strength.

The Russian army drafts almost 500,000 young men each year, but it is beset by problems including desertion, draft dodging and hazing.

The official diet for a Russian conscript looks healthy enough: the long ration list includes meat and dairy produce, as well as a daily dose of fresh fruit and vegetables.

But Human Rights Watch says soldiers are routinely denied that food, or served rotten produce crawling with bugs. As a consequence, it says, the Russian army is sick.

The report is the result of more than one hundred interviews conducted across Russia.

Its authors admit their methods are not scientific, but argue that their task is to highlight an extremely serious problem.

'Mismanagement'

Anna Neistat, the organisation's director in Moscow, believes the problems stem from corruption and a lack of accountability.

She says much of the money and produce allocated to the military doesn't appear to get through to the conscripts.

In an interview with the BBC, a defence ministry spokesman admitted the possibility of what he called 'local mismanagement'.

He said that was a matter for prosecutors but denied there was any large-scale problem with nutrition.

Human Rights Watch is calling on the government to step in and monitor the military. It also suggesta appointing an army ombudsman to protect conscripts' basic rights.

Problems in the Russian army are nothing new, but these latest findings are likely to make sober reading for the current batch of conscripts waiting for their call-up papers this month.

The report, which is entitled 'To serve without health', has been submitted to the authorities in Moscow and should be considered by the UN Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights on Monday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3268169.stm

PiggyWiggy
16 Nov 03,, 20:19
Well what do you expect?

Americans robbed russia of their glorious communism.

Communism made the EAST what it is. Pft. Capitolism is unheard of in russia. There has never been such thing as democracy in the EAST and never will be.

s_qwert63
16 Nov 03,, 20:48
^^^^
true...

Praxus
16 Nov 03,, 21:12
Ever hear of Japan, Australia, South Korea, and Taiwan?

Communism destroyed itself.

Western Countries are not Democracys they are Constitutional Republics.

PiggyWiggy
17 Nov 03,, 01:23
Japanese culture is a rip off of american culture.

Korea is a rip off of american culture, and has high rates of violence and riots.

Taiwan is just like korea.

and Australia, Australia is european genius, it is made up of Europeans. Dutch British German Italians. Those are australians.

India is a democracy, we see how well that is working, half their presidents shot, their economy sucks, poverty is high.

China, however, has a path for itself. Under a communist government it went from pickin rice to Heavy Industry.

Same for russia. Before the Soviet Union, Russia was only St. Petersburg and Moscow. The rest were nothing.

All the other republics were basically villages, espcially central asia and the caucusus. It was not until during communism that a decent building was actually made in the other republics.

Keep Capitolism in the West man, other countries dont want it, because they dont need it.

Praxus
17 Nov 03,, 01:44
Japanese culture is a rip off of american culture.

Korea is a rip off of american culture, and has high rates of violence and riots.

Taiwan is just like korea.

Japan has one of the highest GDP per capita's in the world and the second largest economy in terms of pure GDP.

South Korea has over twice the population of North Korea(on a smaller peice of land I might ad) and a GDP 44 times as large. They also don't let their people starve.

Taiwan has a GDP per capita over 19 times larger then that of mainland China.



and Australia, Australia is european genius, it is made up of Europeans. Dutch British German Italians. Those are australians.

India is a democracy, we see how well that is working, half their presidents shot, their economy sucks, poverty is high.

You said in the EAST, you did not say Asian countries.


China, however, has a path for itself. Under a communist government it went from pickin rice to Heavy Industry.

By moving away from the idea of the state having the means of the production and more towards private Enterprise.




Same for russia. Before the Soviet Union, Russia was only St. Petersburg and Moscow. The rest were nothing.

All the other republics were basically villages, espcially central asia and the caucusus. It was not until during communism that a decent building was actually made in the other republics.


Before Communism, Capitalism was next to non-exsistant in the Russian Empire.


Keep Capitolism in the West man, other countries dont want it, because they dont need it.

It's spelled "Capitalism" first off and second off it would be your loss.

Gio
17 Nov 03,, 02:40
PiggyWiggy, you're a fucking moron. The free market does not exist in Russia or other eastern european states today because the government failed at its sole goal. To enforce property rights and fight crime and fraud.

How idiotic are you? You live in America, enjoying our free market system, on a cable internet connection by charter communications, owned by the co-founder of Microsoft.

Quite honestly, i'm surprised you can read..

You blind hypocritical jackass. Do you even understand what capitalism is? Sorry, no "o."

Your sense of nationalism while living in another country is disgusting.

Although, I would understand your dislike of a system where you have to do things on your own, as you don't seem very intellectual in nature.

http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/bumper_stickers/commie_web.gif

Ray
17 Nov 03,, 02:54
Piggy Wiggy,

India is not only a democracy but a proud democracy in a region of military satraps masquerading as Heads of State. NO President has been shot.

The Prime Minister was shot. So was JFK and Abe Lincoln. However, they were not exterminated as in a Communist country.

Heard of a chap called Stalin? He was a great democrat!:puke

Ray
17 Nov 03,, 02:57
Piggy Wiggy,

Did anyone ask Russia to follow capitalism? Are you suggesting that the Russians are so spineless that they could be coerced to change to the US ways? Don't blame the US for that moron Gorbachov. Gibachov was and is a Russian and if you feel he is a toad, well, as a non Russian, I cannot fault you on that.

I am also curious as to what you are doing in the US, which to you Communists is a decadent culture.

Officer of Engineers
17 Nov 03,, 04:02
Originally posted by Gio
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/bumper_stickers/commie_web.gif

Gio,

I am unaware of how this stat was derived. Do you have further info? Even counting WWII and the various famines, that's only around 30 million.

ZFBoxcar
17 Nov 03,, 04:10
China, however, has a path for itself. Under a communist government it went from pickin rice to Heavy Industry.

That would be AFTER they abandoned communism. And they did abandon it in all but name after 1978. They are still totalitarian, no doubt, but they are more capitalist than almost anyone else.

Gio
17 Nov 03,, 04:12
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Gio,

I am unaware of how this stat was derived. Do you have further info? Even counting WWII and the various famines, that's only around 30 million.
I believe they count Stalin's taking over of the red army as the fault of communism, therefore Russian deaths in WWII.

Gio
17 Nov 03,, 05:19
Now, there are some former communist nations who have done well because they understod they need a good legal system.

Slovenia is an awesome example, their GDP per capita is nearing $20,000 a year. :)

Praxus
17 Nov 03,, 20:08
I am unaware of how this stat was derived. Do you have further info? Even counting WWII and the various famines, that's only around 30 million.

Including China(80,000,000 deaths) it is up around 100-110 million. Then you also got something like 3 million( I have no idea but it's something like that) because of Pol Pot.

Officer of Engineers
17 Nov 03,, 20:26
Praxus,

That has been continually been disproving. The death toll of WWII was ESTIMATED at 13-14 million. No reliable figures since there were no census.

If you're referring to the famines of the 1950s, sorry. You've been shown time and time again that this is false. The original numbers was based upon available food consumption before and after the famine. This was not reliable to begin with. Contrary to that, the Chinese census recorded nowhere near the 30 million mark by starvation, let alone 80 million.

Given Chinese history, 80 million dead would signal the start of a new civil war, by those starving against those eating. Add to that, there are no personal witnesses of mass graves, no mass graves period.

Praxus
17 Nov 03,, 21:32
If you're referring to the famines of the 1950s, sorry. You've been shown time and time again that this is false.

Don't say "Time and Time Again" when you havn't.

It's amazing how you sometimes believe every peice of BS that comes from China's mouth.

Lunatock
17 Nov 03,, 22:06
Originally posted by Gio
I believe they count Stalin's taking over of the red army as the fault of communism, therefore Russian deaths in WWII.

Ahh, but shouldn't the count still be going? Russia only accepted Democracy in name. They still act like Communist Pukes.

PiggyWiggy
17 Nov 03,, 22:37
All Americans in Forum= ANTI PIGGY WAR.

jerks.

Officer of Engineers
17 Nov 03,, 22:43
Originally posted by Praxus
Don't say "Time and Time Again" when you havn't.

It's amazing how you sometimes believe every peice of BS that comes from China's mouth.

I have not but the people at TMF did. You've refused to believe them. That's your pre-orgative. However, until you can refute the evidence, your claim carries as much weight as your refusal of the evidence. Can you find me mass graves for 80 million people? You cannot because there isn't any. You lack the evidence to say otherwise.

No, I don't believe things from the CCP but I do believe things from the people. I've visited China in research of the Nanjing masacres. I did the document evidence search in both Beijing and Tokyo. I've interviewed witnesses.

You should get over your prejudice that everyone living in a communist country is brainwashed. First off, that's impossible. Unlike George Orwell, there's no way you can convince everybody that 1+1=3. Essentially that means that there are good and honest people living in those countries. They can and should be trusted, especially after having lived through those horrible years.

The people I've interviewed lived through the Nanjing Masacres, the Great Leap Forward, and the Great Proliteriate Cultural Revolution. Facinating people and yes, I do believe them.

Lunatock
18 Nov 03,, 00:34
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
All Americans in Forum= ANTI PIGGY WAR.

jerks.

Doesn't get it. So I'll lead everyone in just smiling and nodding thier heads.

Leader
18 Nov 03,, 01:01
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Gio,

I am unaware of how this stat was derived. Do you have further info? Even counting WWII and the various famines, that's only around 30 million.

Stalin reportedly killed seventeen million people in his first seventeen years in office. That's a start.

Leader
18 Nov 03,, 01:06
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
All Americans in Forum= ANTI PIGGY WAR.

jerks.

If you don't like the people at this forum then leave. There are plenty of anti-American forums out there if you want to hear your wrong headed opinion echoed back at you all day.

Ironduke
18 Nov 03,, 01:22
20 million civilian and military deaths during World War II, plus a few million afterwards.

PiggyWiggy
18 Nov 03,, 01:40
nice one.

that is all you bastards got. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

Dont you realise?

I aint a commie, i aint anti american.

I am a realist.

LOL and that thing about going to an ANTI AMERICAN forum to hear lies. that is funny.

Dont screw around alright. there is nothing worse than everyone believing in the same thing.

Officer of Engineers
18 Nov 03,, 02:12
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
I am a realist.

Your demonstrated ignorance makes you a liar.

Blademaster
18 Nov 03,, 16:40
Officer,

The research that you did, was that part of your assignment? Or was it that curiousity drove you to do all the research and ask people? How did you come to do the research that you did on the Rape of Nanking, Imperial Japan War Records, and the effects of the Great Leap Forward?

ChrisF202
18 Nov 03,, 18:20
Heres something I found on AOL News via Reuters a few minutes ago, highly urgent.

http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0600&id=200311180955000293253

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian forces are so poorly equipped they could not launch an offensive war, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov was quoted as saying Tuesday.

Ivanov, a close ally of President Vladimir Putin, has spearheaded military reform in Russia and is trying to transform bloated Soviet-style conscript units into a modern professional force.

"Conditions are on an acceptable level only for the fulfillment of nuclear deterrent, counter-terrorist and peace-keeping activities," Ivanov told a meeting of military top brass also attended by Putin, according to Interfax news agency.

Only last month, Ivanov said Russia reserved the right to launch pre-emptive non-nuclear strikes, but his latest comments suggested it would not actually be capable of doing so.

"As a whole, the armed forces are only 75-80 percent equipped with fully functioning ammunition and technology, and of this, modern weapons makes up less than 20 percent."

The armed forces' decline from victors of World War II to what many see as a national disgrace was graphically shown up in 2000, when the Kursk, the country's newest nuclear submarine, sank with the loss of all hands after an onboard explosion.

Ivanov said lack of money, aging equipment and poor training in the air force meant crashes were frequent and not a single Russian air unit was fully operational.

"This year, there have been eight aviation accidents, of which five have been crashes, which have killed 12 people. Seven of the eight were caused by a mistake by the flight team in...using the plane's technology."

But many analysts say Ivanov, who has said combat-ready troops must be fully professional by 2007, is loathe to fully implement reforms as they could cost an extra $1 billion a year and be unpopular with the military leadership, who are losing around a fifth of military personnel.

In the meantime, morale remains low. Bullying is rife among conscripts and young men go to extreme lengths to avoid service. Ivanov was quoted as saying that a third of non-military deaths in the armed forces were suicides.

In an extensive study of conditions in the army published last week and widely reported in Russian media, U.S.-based Human Rights Watch said bullying and lack of money meant conscripts were often poorly fed and denied access to medical care.

"Many go hungry or develop serious health problems, including pneumonia and festering sores, as minor health concerns remain untreated," the rights watchdog said.

Putin, meeting military veterans Tuesday, said the government was discussing raising military salaries.

"A lot has been done, but it is still insufficient," Interfax quoted him as saying.



Reuters
Nov 18 2003 9:55AM


Id say Russia is in deep $hit

Officer of Engineers
18 Nov 03,, 19:47
Originally posted by Blademaster
Officer,

The research that you did, was that part of your assignment? Or was it that curiousity drove you to do all the research and ask people? How did you come to do the research that you did on the Rape of Nanking, Imperial Japan War Records, and the effects of the Great Leap Forward?

A little of both. It was part of Command School Course Reqs. I had a little vacation time and decided that this would kill two birds with one stone. I was a Maj at the time.

My concentration was on the Rape of Nanking but the people I've interviewed were in their late 50s to 80s. So, they tend to have a habbit to ramble on off subject and it is considered impolite to disrupt elders in trying to steer the interview back on course. They talk everything under the sun, from yesterday's meals to the great cataclysmns in their lives. Makes you wonder whether you have the same fortitude to survive it all.

I was looking at NJ as a Study in Command and it was one clusterfucked operation. The IJA denied it ever took place or rather nowhere near the scale it was reported. The Chinese claimed 300,000 killed. The IJA could not or would not explain the mass graves.

I really don't know if the IJA High Command was in on this action. I don't know if 300,000 is the right number but it's at least 100,000 dead. That kind of slaughter requires a hell of alot of organization. At the same time, it was done inefficently. IJA coys just surround one block and then go in and have "fun." A hell of alot of leakage occurred which makes you wonder just what the hell were they thinking.

I only had a chance to interview Chinese survivors. I was not able to talk to any of the IJA personnel who took part in that action. In any event, those who lived through it got alot of venom in their eyes and voice when they talked about the Japanese.


Originally posted by ChrisF202
"Conditions are on an acceptable level only for the fulfillment of nuclear deterrent, counter-terrorist and peace-keeping activities," Ivanov told a meeting of military top brass also attended by Putin, according to Interfax news agency.

Reads like a big budget fight is brewing. I don't know but I still wouldn't like to take on the 1st Moscow or the 16 Guards heads on.

s_qwert63
18 Nov 03,, 21:54
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
All Americans in Forum= ANTI PIGGY WAR.

jerks.

Don't bother with them.
They don't know anything abour Russia/CIS, and absorb propoganda like sponges absorb water.

Officer of Engineers
18 Nov 03,, 22:35
Son,

Thus far, I've been giving you lessons in how the Russian army fights.

ChrisF202
18 Nov 03,, 23:18
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Son,

Thus far, I've been giving you lessons in how the Russian army fights.
Dont they still fight using WW2 tatics?

Officer of Engineers
18 Nov 03,, 23:41
Originally posted by ChrisF202
Dont they still fight using WW2 tatics?

No, they've advanced far beyond that. The advent of technology and technique doesn't stay still. We can glimpse at their thinking using WWII as a basis but they would have more than a few surprises waiting.

If you compare two campaigns, the 1945 Manchurian Campaign and the 1979 Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan, you'll see a bigger usage of Spetznaz and a more accurate and decisive role for artillery. They were the first to use artillery instead of infantry as the blocking force.

Leader
19 Nov 03,, 01:26
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
nice one.

that is all you bastards got. Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.

Dont you realise?

I aint a commie, i aint anti american.

I am a realist.

LOL and that thing about going to an ANTI AMERICAN forum to hear lies. that is funny.

Dont screw around alright. there is nothing worse than everyone believing in the same thing.

Fuck off.


Originally posted by s_qwert63
Don't bother with them.
They don't know anything abour Russia/CIS, and absorb propoganda like sponges absorb water.

You too, squirter.

ChrisF202
19 Nov 03,, 01:29
Piggy, I thaught you were better then that, better then one to insult Americans, you too sqwert

PiggyWiggy
19 Nov 03,, 01:52
leave kazakh alone.

How do you know what the soviet union is?

I bet you have not had contact with anyone from the CIS.

You have reports, articles, and other high tech shit.

But have you met a real russian? one from the soviet union?

i seriously doubt it.

Kazakh. They like to soak up lots of propaganda. And if you tell them they are wrong, they will bring topics up out of nowhere.

It is best, if we keep the image of the EAST in mind, EAST is culturally driven, with the family and people in mind. West is driven by money money money money. No culture, no respect.

Keep it real and hope you do well in your studies :) :)

i will visit Central Asia in 2 years. :) but for now, it is the mother land for me...

Ironduke
19 Nov 03,, 02:04
EAST is culturally driven, with the family and people in mind.
Dude, come on. There are more abortions per year in Eastern Europe than there are births.

Officer of Engineers
19 Nov 03,, 02:19
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
But have you met a real russian? one from the soviet union?

Yes, I have. The Russian Contingent in SFOR. Son, you're talking out of your corn hole. There are alot of people here with far more experience and therefore, far more insight than you.

I've even had the honour of meeting then Colonel Maslov, 1st Moscow Crack Army. The man could hold his liquor and drink a Scottish Highlander under the table. Good man.

Your ignorance is bouncing cheques off your forehead. It's time to shut up and learn a few things.

Blademaster
19 Nov 03,, 04:57
Officer,

What was your professional impression of Colonel Maslov of the 1st Moscow Crack Army? Besides, how big is the 1st Moscow and what kind of TOE and structure do they have and who do they report to?

Did he educate you a great deal in how the Russian Army or the Red Army works?

Besides meeting Colonel Maslov, did you meet his subordinates or lieutenants? You can tell a lot about the man and the character of the army by studing the subordinates and lieutenants.

Officer of Engineers
19 Nov 03,, 05:32
Hitesh,

I will get back to you on the 1st Moscow Orbat and TOE tomorrow from work.

Col Maslov was on a dog-and-pony show tour of RMC Kingston. Only met him for one night at the Mess (naturally). He was the centre of attention and we bribed him (ie getting him drunk - or at least we went broke trying) for info.

Don't know about learning to fight the 1st Moscow but there were some very interesting stories. Red Army exercises are rehersals, not battle evaluations. The winner is always chosen before hand to please the politicians and the propagandists.

Col Maslov had a humourous (or mean) streak in him. At one time, he spiked the REDFORCE CO's tires so that he couldn't start his exercise on time - that is BLUEFORCE wins. Another time, he threw sugar into the REDFORCE fuel tanker.

I do know that he was an Afghan veteran from the battle ribbons on his chest but he never said anything about it. Or he may have but I was long defeated by the Scotch and had to retire.

Bill
19 Nov 03,, 11:38
I have not yet begun to fight. ;)

Wow Piggy, i didn't know you were a ^*(#%&$* moron....

s_qwert63
19 Nov 03,, 17:55
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Son,

Thus far, I've been giving you lessons in how the Russian army fights.

You told me of the 1st Moscow crack Army...
Does that even exist?
What units/divisions are in there?
The only elite division around Moscow is the Tumanskaya DVV. Interior troops.
Never heard of the "1st Moscow Crack Army"
The only elite divisions that I know of are the 76th VDD and the 104th VDD and the Byelorussian "Vytebsk" VDD, most Guards divisions were disbanded (most of them were stationed in GDR and their barracks were in Ukraine, Latvia and Byelorus) and those that are left are severely underfunded.

You talk of the Red Army exercises, the Red Army was no more in the 1960's.

Officer of Engineers
19 Nov 03,, 18:34
**** sigh ****

Son,

Obviously, you don't know that much about your own army. I used the term Red Army because that's what we used during my days across the Fulda Gap. I was there when we went staring nose-to-nose. So, get off your high horse and learn something.

The 1st Moscow Crack Army is also known as the 1st Shock Army (Moscow). I used the 1MCA because that's how the Brits refer to them.

The last orbat I have of them are

18th Artillery Brigade
16th Engineer Brigade
61st SAM Brigade
322nd Combat Helicopter Regiment
9th Motorized Rifle Division
267th Motorized Rifle Division
349th Motorized Rifle Division

BTW, learn something here. When talking about Russian/Red Army/PLA, the term army means a corps.

NATO is organized along brigade-division-corps. Russia/China is orgainzied along regiment-division-army. Not quite the same but that's the equivlencies.

Again, I've been giving you lessons on your own army.

Last thing - get off the elite thing. All elite means is that they're fast, not sustainable.

s_qwert63
19 Nov 03,, 19:42
Dad,
The name has been changed in the 1960's from the Red to the Soviet Army, and there was a reshuffle of the whole army as well.
And I am not from Russia, and I think the Russian army now sucks shit, because it was stabbed in the back by money grabbing capitalist shitheads.

edit: where is the First Moscow "Crack" Army located then?
And it is not the duty of every citizen to know everything about his army, nor am I a Russian citizen.
It is your job to know everything about military tactics, mine is not,

edit 2: In an event of a war the Soviet Army would have been organized into Army groups, otherwise known as fronts. Stop protruding yourself as an all knowing father figure of these boards, you might know a lot about military strategy and doctrine, but does that give you the right to tell everyone to shut the hell up? Who gave you the right to act like a Moderator? Personal attack

edit 3: As far as I know, when a unit is considered elite, it means that they are trained more rigorously and have expertise in certain fields.

Stinger
19 Nov 03,, 22:04
Originally posted by s_qwert63
Dad,
The name has been changed in the 1960's from the Red to the Soviet Army, and there was a reshuffle of the whole army as well.
And I am not from Russia, and I think the Russian army now sucks shit, because it was stabbed in the back by money grabbing capitalist shitheads.

Hey Squirt, you communist flaming bag of dogshit, be nice to the Col. I understand that he completely and totally dominates you in the intelligence area (as he does most of us) that is no reason to get little dick syndrome (though I'm begining to think the affliction is cronic in your case).

Ironduke
19 Nov 03,, 22:08
The Soviet/Russian Army has always been called the Red Army by Americans, and Canadians as well.

Just like using the word "Russians" as a blanket term for all people from the Soviet Union back when it was around.

s_qwert63
19 Nov 03,, 22:23
Originally posted by ironman420
The Soviet/Russian Army has always been called the Red Army by Americans, and Canadians as well.

Just like using the word "Russians" as a blanket term for all people from the Soviet Union back when it was around.

1. For incorrect reasons, mainly because no one had any idea that the name was changed.
Why the Russian Army is called the Red Army is beyond me, maybe because most American people have no idea that the USSR collapsed, or did not even know that it existed.

2. The "blanket" term is totally incorrect and extremely offensive, but I do not blame you, not a lot of Americans can find Russia on te map, let alone know what the Soviet Union was.
Would you get offended if I called you an Englishman?
Yes.
That "blanket term" comes from ignorance. Your country should consider changing it's geography syllabus.

s_qwert63
19 Nov 03,, 22:27
Originally posted by Stinger
Hey Squirt, you communist flaming bag of dogshit, be nice to the Col. I understand that he completely and totally dominates you in the intelligence area (as he does most of us) that is no reason to get little dick syndrome (though I'm begining to think the affliction is cronic in your case).

be "nice" to the Colonel?

Where was I being directly disrespectful to him?
How do I know who he really is? I can claim to be Prince Harry on the internet, would you be naive enough to believe me?
Watch your own language.
Your attempt at trying to be funny, is purely lame and idiotic as usual, maybe you should try and consider reviewing your sense of humour.

Ironduke
19 Nov 03,, 22:31
The Russians were always the dominant group in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, it's successor state.

So you don't blame me because I'm stupid? Don't dig yourself in a hole.

And no, I wouldn't get offended if I were called an Englishmen. That is mainly where my ancestors are from.

s_qwert63
19 Nov 03,, 22:45
Originally posted by ironman420
The Russians were always the dominant group in the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union, it's successor state.

In the USSR the communist party was the dominant group, guess where Stalin was from? Kruschev? Chernenko?


And no, I wouldn't get offended if I were called an Englishmen. That is mainly where my ancestors are from.

Then you are a one of a kind. Even Welsh people get pissed off if they are called English, let alone Aussies, South Africans etc.
The Irish would kill you if you call them English.
The point is not what group was dominant where, but how much respect certain people had towards other people and other countries, well, the Americans have shown themselves to be totally disrespectful and ignorant by using "blanket terms".

Jay
19 Nov 03,, 23:51
Sqwert,
AFAIK USSR ~ Russia.
The rest of the world still call China as a communist country but clearly they'r not communists.
I fail to understand the fuss in these modalities, I guess we should steerr our discussion more on the news rather than the geography.

Even I have read about Moscow Crack Army which is available free on net.

I guess some of these crack units are still stationed in Chechenya (503 Motorized Rifle Reg).

Also be respectful to the Col. He aint posting BS. If you have read his articles in CDF, may be you would get to know that he's far knowledged than you and me in these issues.

He has proved his credentials many a times before so dont question his identity.

PiggyWiggy
20 Nov 03,, 00:36
QWERT IS RIGHT!

The creators of the revolution in russia were not russian. Most of the greatest men were not russian.

Trotsky=jew
Lenin=tatar
Stalin=Georgian/Armenian

Yeah man. You really think you know more about my history?

Ha.

Americans only know about themselves, never about others.

Kazakh. want to have a cup of coffee at amsterdam, ill be there in the summer for 2 days :) :) :)

Ironduke
20 Nov 03,, 02:16
The point is not what group was dominant where, but how much respect certain people had towards other people and other countries, well, the Americans have shown themselves to be totally disrespectful and ignorant by using "blanket terms".
My advice to you would be to grow some thick skin.

PiggyWiggy
20 Nov 03,, 02:24
and my advice to you would be to be more respectful.

It seems to me, that you are bashing, and disgracing minorities in your country. And seem to hold yourself supreme to me and QWERT.

You outnumbering us makes you correct, for the moment in these conditions.

But in our world, you are wrong.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 02:26
Sqwerte,

I finally understand where you're coming from but BE ADVISED, I was staring down the Red Army before you were borned, so give this DINOSAUR some leadway.

Be that as it may, I still continue to give you lessons on how your army figths. You have yet to correct me on my observations.

I respect your army as we were both ready to start and finish World War III. Colonel Maslov was an enlightment to me in telling me that soldiers are soldiers, regardless of their oaths. I can see myself serving an officer like Col Maslov as I can see myself serving Ray although they both had to get accustomed to how MY army operates.

Here's a summary of lessons I've taught you.

The difference between paratroopers and air assault.
The difference between intial entry force and decisive force.
The difference between elite and combat effective.
The difference between experienced and amateurs.

You, however, don't know squat, not knowing about one of the crack corps, 1MCA, in your own army. And yes, I have intel reports of your army. I've corrected you on the performances of your army in Afghanistan. So, shut the hell up until you can correct me on my observations.

For the last time, get off your high horse and you may be able to learn something.

And someone please ban Piggy, I'm sick and tire of an idiot who refuses to appreciate what we're telling him.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 02:30
One last thing,

I DO NOT THINK THE RUSSIAN ARMY SUCKS!

You obviously did not study the 2nd Chechen War!

Ray
20 Nov 03,, 03:54
Colonel,

Have you read the book Who Moved My Cheese?

Don't let anything get under your skin. There was a chap on another forum who said most unceremoniously that I knew nothing of the Indian Army. It got my goat, but I quickly read the book and then ignored the chap. This chap got lamblasted by others. So, not to worry.

In our Indian films, the scripts are ridiculous but there is a funny joe who gives what is known as 'comic relief'.

Let them say what they ahve to. Its their view and it need not be correct.

However, I think a Chechen would not like to be called a Russian or a Kazakh be called a Russian. After all, now they are independent. There is a saying that a newly converted Muslim shouts Allah Allah a little louder than the others!

Ray
20 Nov 03,, 03:57
Chechen are not independent, they however wish to be so and dont like being called Russian. I am stating all this in a hurry as another post so the Sqwert does not run after me with his AK 47.

I like Sqwert. Nice name.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 04:51
Originally posted by Ray
Colonel,

Have you read the book Who Moved My Cheese?

Sir,

No, Sir, I have not read the book but situation understood. Sir, you're a better man than I.

PiggyWiggy
20 Nov 03,, 06:25
Colonel.

Understand.

That you may know a lot about wars in your time, and i am willing to learn.

But now it is different.

I mean no disrespect. They are my views God Damn it! and I tend to keep them that way.

PiggyWiggy
20 Nov 03,, 06:27
By the way. Chechnya is no big problem for russia. It is just the aftermath of what will happen that is troubling Putin.

If chechnya goes down by conventional means, Terrorism in Russia Goes up.

If chechnya goes down unconvenetionaly (bio nuke), UN and other groups will argue.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 06:57
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
Colonel.

Understand.

That you may know a lot about wars in your time, and i am willing to learn.

But now it is different.

I mean no disrespect. They are my views God Damn it! and I tend to keep them that way.

And God bless you for having views but He will not bless you for being stupid and that's what you are.

How is war today different than my time or the General's time? Don't even bother to answer because we'll both shoot you down before you can utter a word.

You're the idiot who spouted a 100,000 man brigade and how PoWs means dishonour in war. I've shown you both times that you don't know what you're talking about. So, how are we to take that you know what war (a lie at best) is today when you don't know squat about war of yesterday.

I have no problems with you having views. I do have a problem with you insisting on being stupid.

Ray
20 Nov 03,, 11:01
Colonel,

He is a little boy. Don't get so angry.

Remember, the Chinese are the most calm people in the world. Let your Chinese side surface. I am sure you can make that effort.

Stinger
20 Nov 03,, 12:12
Originally posted by s_qwert63
be "nice" to the Colonel?

Where was I being directly disrespectful to him?
How do I know who he really is? I can claim to be Prince Harry on the internet, would you be naive enough to believe me?
Watch your own language.
Your attempt at trying to be funny, is purely lame and idiotic as usual, maybe you should try and consider reviewing your sense of humour.
MY sense of humor is just fine FBS Squirt, . As for your being disrespectful to the Col, it would be easier to list all the posts where you haven't been disrepectful.... there all done. And in regards to not knowing who the Col is or if he was really a Col.... well your right I don't know "for sure" he is who he says he is, but I have yet to hear him say anything that was blatently incorrect (you I cannot say the same for), and so I choose to beleive him.

and now we get to Piggy... piggy if your ever in the DFW area look me up and Frogger up. You communist hypocritical shitbird, it must be nice to be able to enjoy all the perks of living in a free market, while at the same time being able to lambast it for evil and wrong. It disturbs me to no end that good men die for pieces of shit like you.

damn kids.

(ps: Ray... I don't think I have a calm chinese side, my calm side seems to dislike these two as much as the rest of me.)

bigross86
20 Nov 03,, 12:33
I know the Colonel and I have disagreed in the past, but he still outranks me and knows more than me on the subject, so I listen.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 16:10
Originally posted by Ray
Colonel,

He is a little boy. Don't get so angry.

Remember, the Chinese are the most calm people in the world. Let your Chinese side surface. I am sure you can make that effort.

Sir,

Occupational hazzard as an Officer of Engineers. Stupidity kills. Was never able to tolerate it, even in myself.

s_qwert63
20 Nov 03,, 18:36
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
The difference between paratroopers and air assault.

Misunderstanding of terms, English is not my mother tongue, paratroopers are used to describe both, airbourne and air assault troops. In fact, there is only one term.


You, however, don't know squat, not knowing about one of the crack corps, 1MCA, in your own army.

The Russian Federation Army is not my army, I am from Kazakhstan. And I do not feel obliged knowing about the 1 Moscow "Crack" Army, even if I was Russian, the military is only interests me, although I do want to make a carrer. In other words, not I have better things to do then learn about the 1st Moscow Crack Army, things such as chicks and beer for one.


I've corrected you on the performances of your army in Afghanistan. So, shut the hell up until you can correct me on my observations.

My uncle served in Afghanistan and my friend served on the Tadjik-Afghan border, I know many first hand accounts from both of them.
What is it you corrected me on?


I DO NOT THINK THE RUSSIAN ARMY SUCKS!


I do, you might think of it whatever you want to, but I think of it what I saw and know.
The soldier in the new Russian Army is not worth shit, if in Afghanistan Soviet soldiers' lives were very precious and much was done to save as many soldiers as possible, then in the Chechen war the manpower was expendable. Ever heard of the Moikop brigade?
In basic training there is little food and it is shitty, there is severe hazing, if in Soviet times hazing was controlled and checked by the officers then in the Russian Army hazing is totally out of hand.
One of my mates was storming the Minutka square in Grozny, he said that literally it was filled with blood, and dead bodies were lying everywhere. They were asking for airstrikes, but since the air group that was supposed to be supporting them had their fuel sold to the Chechens by a crooked officer. So the command kept pouring more and more men into the square, they could not break through Chechen defenses w/o armour or air support. He spent 2 days lying behind his best friends' body because the amount of fire was so intense.
In another instance, they have been pinned down by sniper fire at a blockpost for 2 days, they called for reinforcements on an hourly basis for 2 days, and they were told that the reinforcements were on the way, but none came. One of the guys couldn't take it so he came out with his hands in the air begging for water and was shot. They had to run from the blockpost and take refuge in a Chechen family, in a nearby village. No one gave a shit about them
Unlike in the Soviet Army, a soldier in the Russian Army does not mean shit. Everyone is ditching the army now, and I would do the same, I do not want to be a freshmeat fighting for a sick bunch of capitalist pigs.



AFAIK USSR ~ Russia.

Then you don't really know much, do you?
The Soviet Union is not Russia, have you got any idea of what a devolved unitary state is?
How about this, there were 330 million people living in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in 1991, there are now 143 million people in Russia. Where do you think the other 187 million people disappear of to?
You do not know the difference because you don't care, and were not taught, and American propoganda always used the term Russia as a blanket term to make the hatred of Soviets by Americans more nationally and racially motivated.


Chechen are not independent, they however wish to be so and dont like being called Russian. I am stating all this in a hurry as another post so the Sqwert does not run after me with his AK 47.

Chechens are citizens of the Russian Federation, but are not ethnic Russians. They do not even look the same.
I spent 6 years in a British School and have met a lot of Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis. With no offence intended, but most Indians and Pakistanis look quite the same (maybe because they were the same country until 1947), but whenever I came up to a Pakistani and asked him if he was Indian, he got pissed off.
If you even look at the ethnicities in India, there are many different ethnicities in India, you would be offended if you are called one ethinicity when you are another.


Kazakh. want to have a cup of coffee at amsterdam, ill be there in the summer for 2 days

Why coffee?
We can go to a coffeeshop and buy something more satisfying than coffee :)

Lunatock
20 Nov 03,, 18:46
Originally posted by s_qwert63
1. For incorrect reasons, mainly because no one had any idea that the name was changed.
Why the Russian Army is called the Red Army is beyond me, maybe because most American people have no idea that the USSR collapsed, or did not even know that it existed.

You left out the twenty five burgers a day us Americans eat. I go for thirty during Ramadan. :w00t



2. The "blanket" term is totally incorrect and extremely offensive, but I do not blame you, not a lot of Americans can find Russia on te map, let alone know what the Soviet Union was.
Would you get offended if I called you an Englishman?
Yes.
That "blanket term" comes from ignorance. Your country should consider changing it's geography syllabus.

Funny how everyone from Moscow to NWFP says that about Americans. How we can't find Russia on "te" map.

Some of us might be offended about being called Englishmen. Since some of us are Irish descendents. That or let you make a gross miscalculation about us.

Oh but you are right about "blanket term" being wrong. Lately the former Soviet Union is more like a jigsaw puzzle.

Lunatock
20 Nov 03,, 18:50
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
And God bless you for having views but He will not bless you for being stupid and that's what you are.

How is war today different than my time or the General's time? Don't even bother to answer because we'll both shoot you down before you can utter a word.

You're the idiot who spouted a 100,000 man brigade and how PoWs means dishonour in war. I've shown you both times that you don't know what you're talking about. So, how are we to take that you know what war (a lie at best) is today when you don't know squat about war of yesterday.

I have no problems with you having views. I do have a problem with you insisting on being stupid.

You think that maybe Piggy Wiggy is the R & D Guy that designed the German MBT capable of engaging U.S. Aircraft with it's main gun?

s_qwert63
20 Nov 03,, 18:53
Originally posted by Lunatock
You left out the twenty five burgers a day us Americans eat. I go for thirty during Ramadan. :w00t

Funny how everyone from Moscow to NWFP says that about Americans. How we can't find Russia on "te" map.

Some of us might be offended about being called Englishmen. Since some of us are Irish descendents. That or let you make a gross miscalculation about us.

Oh but you are right about "blanket term" being wrong. Lately the former Soviet Union is more like a jigsaw puzzle.

^^^^^
exactly what I meant...

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 20:19
Originally posted by s_qwert63
I do, you might think of it whatever you want to, but I think of it what I saw and know.
The soldier in the new Russian Army is not worth shit, if in Afghanistan Soviet soldiers' lives were very precious and much was done to save as many soldiers as possible, then in the Chechen war the manpower was expendable. Ever heard of the Moikop brigade?
In basic training there is little food and it is shitty, there is severe hazing, if in Soviet times hazing was controlled and checked by the officers then in the Russian Army hazing is totally out of hand.
One of my mates was storming the Minutka square in Grozny, he said that literally it was filled with blood, and dead bodies were lying everywhere. They were asking for airstrikes, but since the air group that was supposed to be supporting them had their fuel sold to the Chechens by a crooked officer. So the command kept pouring more and more men into the square, they could not break through Chechen defenses w/o armour or air support. He spent 2 days lying behind his best friends' body because the amount of fire was so intense.
In another instance, they have been pinned down by sniper fire at a blockpost for 2 days, they called for reinforcements on an hourly basis for 2 days, and they were told that the reinforcements were on the way, but none came. One of the guys couldn't take it so he came out with his hands in the air begging for water and was shot. They had to run from the blockpost and take refuge in a Chechen family, in a nearby village. No one gave a shit about them
Unlike in the Soviet Army, a soldier in the Russian Army does not mean shit. Everyone is ditching the army now, and I would do the same, I do not want to be a freshmeat fighting for a sick bunch of capitalist pigs.

And that's the difference between you and me. I never made the claim that the Russian Army is 100% effective. I've stated that they've got two corps that they could count on.

You currently talking about the occupation. Well, buddy, I can find you the same story with Soviet Afghanistan, US-Vietnam, and Sino-Tibet. Somewhere, somehow, some soldiers will always try to make a buck at his comrade's expense.

Again, you have not studied the 2nd Chechen War. They mounted a 100,000 man invasion force in less than 6 months, starting from scratch using local militia.

They've also learned to move fire and C2 down to platoon level when they invaded Grozny a second time. They've placed minefields and place FOOs to watch them this time around. When the Chechens tried to evac Grozny, not only were they caught in a minefield but were also being showered by local artillery.

The Russians moved forward using AAA instead of tanks to take out entrenched Chechen positions and giving the platoon leader the authority to use those AAA instead of going to battalion for authority.

With the exception of the Speztnaz forces and the Air Assault divisions, I never counted on the Russian soldiers being anything more than tenacious. I can count on him to get to a spot and spray until he runs out of ammo. But after that, he's toast.

The Russians never think individual soldiers. They never did. This is an army with an entire history of penal battalions, the worst kind of soldiers you can get and yet, they've made effective use out of them.

We think platoon. They think regiment.

The Russian Army currently has its strengths and its weaknesses as does every army. Like every army, its strengths outweighs its weaknesses. Otherwise, you would have Chechens marching on Moscow.

s_qwert63
20 Nov 03,, 20:41
I meant that human life does not matter to the officers and the commanders in the Russian Army. In the Soviet Amy, post World War 2 it was different. Every soldier was valuable, since he was rigorously trained and experienced.
I was not talking about the Second Chechen War, I was talking about the storming of Minutka(square in Grozny) in 1994. The Russian Army performed miserably in Chechnya in 1994, because the whole officer corps collapsed in 1991. Lebedev, was not even involved in Afghanistan, the lessons of the Afghan war were not learnt.
The capitalists and the mafia that rule the country stabbed the army in the back, they just threw more and more soldiers into the crucible, hoping to extnguish it. The holes have been plucked with the meat of Siberian conscripts.


I never counted on the Russian soldiers being anything more than tenacious. I can count on him to get to a spot and spray until he runs out of ammo. But after that, he's toast.

What evidence do you draw that from?
If you are talking about the Russian army, then I don't know. If you talk of the Soviet Army, then that is pure assumptions. In a full scale war a Soviet resrevist who had 2 years military experience would certainly outmatch a NATO conscript who was hurried through basic training and thrown onto the battlefield, once the professional armies are exhausted.

Officer of Engineers
20 Nov 03,, 23:50
Originally posted by s_qwert63
I meant that human life does not matter to the officers and the commanders in the Russian Army. In the Soviet Amy, post World War 2 it was different. Every soldier was valuable, since he was rigorously trained and experienced.
I was not talking about the Second Chechen War, I was talking about the storming of Minutka(square in Grozny) in 1994. The Russian Army performed miserably in Chechnya in 1994, because the whole officer corps collapsed in 1991. Lebedev, was not even involved in Afghanistan, the lessons of the Afghan war were not learnt.
The capitalists and the mafia that rule the country stabbed the army in the back, they just threw more and more soldiers into the crucible, hoping to extnguish it. The holes have been plucked with the meat of Siberian conscripts.


What evidence do you draw that from?
If you are talking about the Russian army, then I don't know. If you talk of the Soviet Army, then that is pure assumptions. In a full scale war a Soviet resrevist who had 2 years military experience would certainly outmatch a NATO conscript who was hurried through basic training and thrown onto the battlefield, once the professional armies are exhausted.

I've got the experience and know how to back up my assessement. You're not talking about the 2nd Chechen War? Then, your whole premis is false to begin with, isn't it?

Sorry, Afghanistan is not the lesson for Grozny. Stalingrad, Berlin, Oratona are the models. The Mujahadeen never put up a fight in a MOUT environment, at least not above platoon level.

Your assesement of our reserve system is more dismal than your knowledge of the Warsaw Pact. And I can assess the fact that I don't count on the regular Soviet soldier to be nothing more than tenacious is because of the doctrines that they used. Again, they think regiment, not platoon.

I can give you whole lessons in Russian tactical doctrines but you've already stated that you're not interested and couldn't be bothered with. Therefore, it's a waste of my time to educate you.

Jay
21 Nov 03,, 00:09
sqwert,
I'm not a naturalized American, more so I dont read/see normal mainstream American news channels. I have had very good exposure on Soviet culture. i still remember the translated russian books and journals i used to get every year from book exhibitions. And yeah I like USSR for their un-conditional support to India.

I just told you the common perception, that USSR is Russia. As you said the rest 187 million people are not entirely another single entity, so people always refer the dominant entity and this case its Russia.

PiggyWiggy
21 Nov 03,, 00:17
Sqwert.

We will meet up.

ZFBoxcar
21 Nov 03,, 00:21
They are plotting the Third International! :D :D :D

Ironduke
21 Nov 03,, 01:38
Originally posted by Jay
sqwert,
I'm not a naturalized American, more so I dont read/see normal mainstream American news channels. I have had very good exposure on Soviet culture. i still remember the translated russian books and journals i used to get every year from book exhibitions. And yeah I like USSR for their un-conditional support to India.

I just told you the common perception, that USSR is Russia. As you said the rest 187 million people are not entirely another single entity, so people always refer the dominant entity and this case its Russia.
The Soviet Union never had 330 million people as Squirt claimed. It's maximum population was 290,000,000.

The Russians were 60% of the population after WWII and 51% in 1990.

Russian ethnic %'s for various SSR's, 1989

Russia 82% 121,993,000
Estonia 30% 472,000
Latvia 34% 911,000
Lithuania 9% 350,000
Belarus 13% 1,325,000
Ukraine 22% 11,347,000
Moldova 12% 567,000
Georgia 6% 326,000
Armenia 2% 66,000
Azerbaijan 6% 426,000
Kazakstan 38% 6,300,000
Turkmenistan 9% 321,000
Tajikstan 8% 415,000
Uzbekistan 8% 1,608,000
Kyrzygstan 22% 905,000

Total 147,332,000 Russians

Ukrainians and Belorussians are very similar to Russians. They are also called the Blue and White Russians, respectively. Together with the Russians they constituted over 200,000,000 people.

Ray
21 Nov 03,, 02:51
Sqwert,

OK the Pakistani got pissed off when he was asked he was an Indian.

Actually, I get pissed off when the skinheads beat up Indians and say that they are '****-bashing'. :devil2

If they are so keen on bashing Pakistanis, then they should go and get them.:lol

It may be of interest for many to know that outside the sub continent, a lot of Indians have close Pakistani friends and vice versa.

Jay
21 Nov 03,, 16:14
Yup Ray sahab, except in an utopia called United Kingdom :wacko

Ray
21 Nov 03,, 19:06
Jay,

I made friends on the Line of Control during the delineation, my folks have good Pakistani and Bangladeshi friends in the US and Malaysia. Of course, discussion on India and Pakistan or religion is taboo.

roshan
23 Nov 03,, 04:30
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
Japanese culture is a rip off of american culture.

Korea is a rip off of american culture, and has high rates of violence and riots.

Taiwan is just like korea.

and Australia, Australia is european genius, it is made up of Europeans. Dutch British German Italians. Those are australians.

India is a democracy, we see how well that is working, half their presidents shot, their economy sucks, poverty is high.

China, however, has a path for itself. Under a communist government it went from pickin rice to Heavy Industry.

Same for russia. Before the Soviet Union, Russia was only St. Petersburg and Moscow. The rest were nothing.

All the other republics were basically villages, espcially central asia and the caucusus. It was not until during communism that a decent building was actually made in the other republics.

Keep Capitolism in the West man, other countries dont want it, because they dont need it. the turkish nations of central asia were very much city building cultures. dont spread ridiculous propaganda.

Ironduke
23 Nov 03,, 04:32
Communism didn't fail because of some evil capitalists lurking in the shadows, communism collapsed on its own merits.

PiggyWiggy
23 Nov 03,, 04:34
uh huh.

sure it did. the worlds strongest military and economical power collapsed on its own.

there is a much bigger reason, and the capitolists arent to blame, there is a force much stronger than capitolists and communists combined. i am shitting bricks man!

UNDERSTAND! I AM NOT A COMMIE! I DONT GIVE A warning! ABOUT COMMIES! I just like some of their stuff.

Lunatock
23 Nov 03,, 06:01
Originally posted by PiggyWiggy
uh huh.

sure it did. the worlds strongest military and economical power collapsed on its own.

there is a much bigger reason, and the capitolists arent to blame, there is a force much stronger than capitolists and communists combined. i am shitting bricks man!

UNDERSTAND! I AM NOT A COMMIE! I DONT GIVE A warning! ABOUT COMMIES! I just like some of their stuff.

Edited by Lunatock. Thats another strike.

PiggyWiggy
23 Nov 03,, 19:48
man i have to calm down.

bigross86
23 Nov 03,, 19:58
Gee, you think?

PiggyWiggy
24 Nov 03,, 07:11
ross...did u register in DARIO's Forum?

bigross86
24 Nov 03,, 09:56
Again, the name's Ben. Who's forum?

PiggyWiggy
24 Nov 03,, 22:58
I am sorry Ben.

Umm...did u register into any new forums lately?

Someone with similar screen names logged onto my friends.

Ray
25 Nov 03,, 02:28
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/297701.cms

A view from India regarding Iraq and the US.

Oppose US Arrogance but don't let the US lose is the headline.

The person is a leading defence analyst.

Piggy Wiggy, thats how biased the Indians are. My views are not material since I am not still the Prime Minister!:clap:

PiggyWiggy
25 Nov 03,, 07:16
Ray

if u become PM

dont forget the lil guy.

Armenia.

Plz. we need help.

we were cool remember?

xxxxx
08 Oct 04,, 14:27
Japanese culture is a rip off of american culture.

Korea is a rip off of american culture, and has high rates of violence and riots.

Taiwan is just like korea.

and Australia, Australia is european genius, it is made up of Europeans. Dutch British German Italians. Those are australians.

India is a democracy, we see how well that is working, half their presidents shot, their economy sucks, poverty is high.

China, however, has a path for itself. Under a communist government it went from pickin rice to Heavy Industry.

Same for russia. Before the Soviet Union, Russia was only St. Petersburg and Moscow. The rest were nothing.

All the other republics were basically villages, espcially central asia and the caucusus. It was not until during communism that a decent building was actually made in the other republics.

Keep Capitolism in the West man, other countries dont want it, because they dont need it.

may I correct that it's capitalism :rolleyes:

xxxxx
08 Oct 04,, 15:13
I believe they count Stalin's taking over of the red army as the fault of communism, therefore Russian deaths in WWII.

and still that would be only 30.000.000. so where do you take the other 70.000.000 from? from the Wehrmacht whose soldiers where killed by communists? :rolleyes:

Fury
14 Oct 04,, 18:02
[/b]
I do, you might think of it whatever you want to, but I think of it what I saw and know.
The soldier in the new Russian Army is not worth ****, if in Afghanistan Soviet soldiers' lives were very precious and much was done to save as many soldiers as possible, then in the Chechen war the manpower was expendable. Ever heard of the Moikop brigade?
In basic training there is little food and it is ****ty, there is severe hazing, if in Soviet times hazing was controlled and checked by the officers then in the Russian Army hazing is totally out of hand.
One of my mates was storming the Minutka square in Grozny, he said that literally it was filled with blood, and dead bodies were lying everywhere. They were asking for airstrikes, but since the air group that was supposed to be supporting them had their fuel sold to the Chechens by a crooked officer. So the command kept pouring more and more men into the square, they could not break through Chechen defenses w/o armour or air support. He spent 2 days lying behind his best friends' body because the amount of fire was so intense.
In another instance, they have been pinned down by sniper fire at a blockpost for 2 days, they called for reinforcements on an hourly basis for 2 days, and they were told that the reinforcements were on the way, but none came. One of the guys couldn't take it so he came out with his hands in the air begging for water and was shot. They had to run from the blockpost and take refuge in a Chechen family, in a nearby village. No one gave a **** about them
Unlike in the Soviet Army, a soldier in the Russian Army does not mean ****. Everyone is ditching the army now, and I would do the same, I do not want to be a freshmeat fighting for a sick bunch of capitalist pigs.


As far as I know this statement above pretty much describes the Chechnya conflict in around 1994-1996 or so. I only know what I've seen in tv or read from newspapers and internet and those sources all have different points of view. Didn't the russians screw up the first war in -94 losing dozens of tanks and armored vechiles in just first months of the attack.

Natalia
17 Oct 04,, 22:51
Russian army 'sick and hungry'

The average Russian soldier is sick and hungry, according to a report by Human Rights Watch in Moscow.



In 2002, only 11% of the men called to serve were considered fit for duty; five thousand draftees tested positive for HIV and were turned away. Last year, a quarter of those who entered the armed services during the spring draft had less than nine years of education, which means that they could not be trained to use the advanced equipment that is central to the success fo a modern army.

Michael Specter 'The Devastation' The New Yorker Oct 11, 2004

lemontree
20 Oct 04,, 09:18
Ha.
Americans only know about themselves, never about others.


And you seem to know a lot more eh? Your statement about Indian presidents getting shot (earlier in this thread) speaks volumes about your knowledge of world affairs.

BTW your ID, who gave it to you your school mates..? :biggrin:

lemontree
20 Oct 04,, 09:43
I just like some of their stuff.

What things do you like about communists?

Recon_sgt
22 Oct 04,, 16:47
When you can back up your colourful, insulting and relatively rude statements please let me know.
Japanese culture is a rip off of american culture
My friend if you had ever seen Japan you would not have made such a statement. For 1 in the U.S. do school children sit completely quite with no response while being taught NO. They do in Japan because of the Japanese belief in order and cohesion. This alone shows a large cultural difference in that the Japanese are so big into order that even school kids (normally noisy at the best of times) sit silent.

Same for russia. Before the Soviet Union, Russia was only St. Petersburg and Moscow.
Did you perhaps forget about Rostov, Volgagrad (not sure what they called it then), Murmansk and Arkangelsk to name but a few.

Keep Capitolism in the West man, other countries dont want it, because they dont need it.
I do hope you are not refering to Europe (Ireland and UK included) as Capitalist because to do so would be a grave error and show of ignorance on your part. The U.S. is capitalist and I for one dislike that system (prefer socialist democracy but not too socialist) but it works relatively well and the only tthing I can fault it on and know im right is its disaterous lack of proper labour law and public health care.

and Australia, Australia is european genius, it is made up of Europeans. Dutch British German Italians. Those are australians.
Did you perhaps forget that Irish make up a large portion of original settlers to Australia.

I am a realist.
I believe he is but I also believe that he is living in an alternate reality entirely of his own creation.

But have you met a real russian? one from the soviet union?
Oh you shouldnt have said that. I have met a real Russian He was in my first years service in the army and he had nothing good to say about your friend communism (its a nice idea but is far to open to human corruption).

, EAST is culturally driven, with the family and people in mind.
Ah yes the picture of care that is north Korea, the serenity of caring and compasion of the Soviet era Ghulags. Need I go on. Stalin had the family in mind when he murdered his own people in Ghulags to the tune of about 40, 000, 000. In fact he cared so much about his people and how families should be kept together that he made sure to kill the whole family so no one would be lonely. :biggrin: .

West is driven by money money money money. No culture, no respect. Do not dare demean the Celtic culture of my nation and forefathers child you know nothing about it so i advise you stear clear of an argument with me about it.

Trotsky=jew
jew is the name of a person of a specific religious backround and has no bearing on their nationality.
Please when you can argue with facts and supportable statements come back but for now you should just syop think and not make a fool of yourself. :biggrin: .
P.S. last time I seen your type was from a hill top through a scope. We out here in Ireland call em crusties and it was during bushes visit (i dont like him but we were assigned to the area). WE watched as the regular troops behind the riot shields became steadily more angry. :biggrin:

lemontree
25 Oct 04,, 08:47
ARW_cpl

LOL...that was a good reply! :biggrin: Where have you been man. :)

Recon_sgt
26 Oct 04,, 08:50
Oh I was just floating about. But then I seen this little gem and had to respond :cool: . Anyone up for some pork chops cause I think piggys been taken to the slaughter house :biggrin: .

lemontree
26 Oct 04,, 09:08
Oh I was just floating about. But then I seen this little gem and had to respond :cool: . Anyone up for some pork chops cause I think piggys been taken to the slaughter house :biggrin: .

Pork chops and beer...nice way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon. :rolleyes:

barrowaj
03 Nov 04,, 04:57
I'm tired of the hypocracy and lies.

How can you say that guns don't kill people but Communism does? Both abstract concepts and material objects lack volition, and therefore by your definition, can't kill anyone.

Japan does not have the highest GDP per capita in the world. Here are the top ten according to the CIA:

1 Luxembourg $ 55,100 2003 est.
2 Norway $ 37,800 2003 est.
3 United States $ 37,800 2003 est.
4 Bermuda $ 36,000 2003 est.
5 Cayman Islands $ 35,000 2002 est.
6 San Marino $ 34,600 2001 est.
7 Switzerland $ 32,700 2003 est.
8 Denmark $ 31,100 2003 est.
9 Iceland $ 30,900 2003 est.
10 Austria $ 30,000 2003 est.

No country, especially Russia was ever a communist state. The soviet union was a centrally planned socialist dictatorship until near its end. USSR stands for Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (not communist).

Russia today is about as capitalist as Taiwan. I'm tired of people saying how Russians don't have personal property rights. That is simply untrue. Sure, Yukos oil is under investigation, that doesn't mean that the cause of the investigation is unfounded. Remember Enron?

Finally, socialism and communism are economic ideologies, and have nothing to do with political ideology. Therefore, they are not invompatible with democracy. Democratic Socialist countries exist, and authoritarian capitalist countries also exist. Furthermore, anything that is not democracy is not equivalent to communism. Russia today is not communist or socialist, but they have made moves towards authoritarianism. Political and economic ideologies are orthogonal concepts, don't get them confused.