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jame$thegreat
05 Feb 06,, 21:23
i would like to see pics of the best guns you've seen, heard about, own or have shot. por favor thank you :biggrin:

EricTheRed
05 Feb 06,, 21:25
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m2_machine-gun.jpg

KPR
05 Feb 06,, 21:33
One of my favorites is the K-31.

kNikS
05 Feb 06,, 21:46
Sig P229ST

EricTheRed
05 Feb 06,, 21:46
way to big

TopHatter
05 Feb 06,, 22:17
way to big
All taken care of ;)

EricTheRed
05 Feb 06,, 22:22
excellent :biggrin:

kNikS
05 Feb 06,, 22:29
All taken care of ;)
That was too small, it's fine now. :biggrin:

leib10
05 Feb 06,, 23:12
http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/imgs/mg42.jpg

http://www.france-militaria.net/militaria/usa/1930-1945/arme_f/1911a1.jpg

http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976633746-1.jpg

TopHatter
05 Feb 06,, 23:13
That was too small, it's fine now. :biggrin:
Whatever works for you :biggrin:

KPR
05 Feb 06,, 23:25
Edit: Someone beat me to the 1911.

ak-dave
05 Feb 06,, 23:49
Iím with Eric on this one, Ma Duce is #1.

If I have to schlep it all over then itís an M-60.

http://www.usord.com/images/m60.jpg

When I win the Lotto Iíll get a M60 SEMI AUTO. (http://www.usord.com/M60Semi_USORD.html) 8K is a little bit bigger than my pockets are deep. :cool:

Until then my favorites to shoot are my:

AUG-SA

https://home.comcast.net/~ak-dave/0_G-AUG-02.JPG


and M1A

https://home.comcast.net/~ak-dave/0_G-M1A-1.JPG



Now my question on that M-2 HB flex is, whereís the belt? The original Airsoft air belt fed? :biggrin: :biggrin:

leib10
06 Feb 06,, 01:10
I'm surprised nobody's gotten these yet...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/weapons-recent/ak47.jpg

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/247464/2/istockphoto_247464_m16_assault_rifle.jpg

sparten
06 Feb 06,, 10:40
The best rifle in contempory times
H&K G3
http://www.airsoftguns.net/pictures/g3rifle.jpg
If you want a firearm from black powder days
The Afghan Jezail
http://www.ashokaarts.com/non-edged/nojjezail1.jpg
It actually outranged the Springfields of the British Army.

gunnut
06 Feb 06,, 22:06
Winchester model 1894

Colt Single Action Army 1873

KPR
07 Feb 06,, 02:46
The Mauser C-96

They even copy it for Sci-fi.

RustyBattleship
08 Feb 06,, 00:00
Just look at the guns in my signature picture. They can outrange anything else put up here. Though it takes a few dozen men to load and aim them, only one guy has to pull the triggers from Main Battery Plot down on the 3rd deck.

Ammo is a little troublesome. Though breech loaders they do not take cartridged "bullets". The "bullets" weigh from 1,900 lbs each to 2,700 lbs each. Propellent is loaded in bags and for full service shots will take 6 bags each weighing 110 lbs.

OH? You mean guns that can be handled only by one man? Well, in my case that would be the M-1 Garand (I own two of them) and the Colt .45 ACP National Match with low profile Eliason sights. I also liked the Browning M-2 .50 caliber HB mounted on top of my M-41, but it takes at least two people just to mount one.

Side note: If any of you get a chance to drive into Ogden, Utah just follow the train tracks to the old Union Station there. It is a multiplex museum showcasing trains and locomotives primarily but up on the 2nd floor is the Browning gun museum. WHAT A PLACE. Most of the displays show JMB's prototypes followed up with the production model. An excellent place of gun history.

The .30 caliber 1917 water cooled MG is serial number 2. Sure wish we could find the person who owns serial number 1.

gunnut
08 Feb 06,, 00:09
Whoa, I was in Salt Lake City years ago and wanted to visit John Browning Museum of Firearms on that trip, but it was closed that day (labor day). That area is kinda boring though. Not sure if I want to go all the way there just to visit that museum.

RustyBattleship
08 Feb 06,, 16:37
Whoa, I was in Salt Lake City years ago and wanted to visit John Browning Museum of Firearms on that trip, but it was closed that day (labor day). That area is kinda boring though. Not sure if I want to go all the way there just to visit that museum.

I agree that Ogden is not the most exciting place on Earth. But as I said the old Union Station is a multiplex museum. Besides trains and locomotives displayed on the outside, it has a number of interesting displays inside with running HO scale trains. On the ground floor are three other museums devoted to automobiles, airplanes and dinosaurs. Upstairs is only the Browning gun museum but it is easy to spend an hour or two there.

Dreadnought
08 Feb 06,, 17:48
Geatest Gun:

Has to be from the movie "The Great Outdoors" w/ John Candy, Dan Akroyd

The shotgun with the lamp plug in that they shoot (Jodie) the bald headed bear in the ass with...LMAO :tongue:

ak-dave
09 Feb 06,, 21:35
Gunnut - Do I see "Cowboy Action" on your weekends? My son wants to get into that also. We already are doing 3-gun matches when we can and steel plate once a month.


Sparten - Had to use an Airsoft G-3? That goes with the AK-74U. :biggrin: :biggrin:

gunnut
10 Feb 06,, 00:16
Gunnut - Do I see "Cowboy Action" on your weekends? My son wants to get into that also. We already are doing 3-gun matches when we can and steel plate once a month.

Nah, I'm just a collector. I'm actually a lousy shot. Don't have the time or money to practice often.

That coach gun was a bargain from Big 5 at $159.99 :biggrin:

sparten
10 Feb 06,, 03:46
Sparten - Had to use an Airsoft G-3? That goes with the AK-74U.
:biggrin:
On a more serious note, the G3 does what a rifle is supposed to do, blow holes in people at long ranges wuth little regard for what "armour" they are wearing.

As for the Afghan Jezail, well it is the firearm that inspired the poem, "When you lay dying on Afghanistans plains...."

jame$thegreat
15 Feb 06,, 22:21
http://www.tombguard.org/9mm.gif check my avatar!!!

Bill
15 Feb 06,, 22:38
The grandfather of ALL modern arms:

http://www.11thpa.org/graphics/penn-rifle.gif

Kentucky aka Pennsylvania Long rifle.

gunnut
15 Feb 06,, 23:34
Hmm...I wonder why you like it so much? ;)

Bill
15 Feb 06,, 23:46
Hmm...I wonder why you like it so much? ;)

I admire greatness, and it is a sentimental fave for any ex-sniper with a sense of history. :)

Karna
15 Feb 06,, 23:49
If you want a firearm from black powder days
The Afghan Jezail
http://www.ashokaarts.com/non-edged/nojjezail1.jpg
It actually outranged the Springfields of the British Army.
Yo, that looks nice as hell.

Why is it shaped like that?

sparten
16 Feb 06,, 04:53
To allow it to be carried/used on horseback.

sparten
16 Feb 06,, 05:05
The Jezeil was used to deveastating effect against the British

Here the Brits are being chased out of Afgahnistan, with the Afghans in hot pursuit

http://www.military-art.com/images/dhm_006_small.jpg

A generation earlier during the imperialists ( ;) ) first assaualt on Afghanistan, the only survivor of the British Army, a doctor returned to India.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Retreat-From-Kabul.jpg

It is an urban legend that he was the only survivor, three or four other guys also showed up eventually. :biggrin:

A British regiment (the 66th) in 1880, just before the Afghans lowered the boom

http://www.scottishartprints.com/images/ant220.jpg

huh_what
20 Mar 06,, 09:36
not the best gun but a funny pic

gunnut
20 Mar 06,, 19:49
I question the authenticity of that picture. If memory serves, AK mags have to be rockered into place. That setup doesn't appear to allow for that action. That being said, I pity the fool who has to reload that magazine, and lugging that thing around.

leib10
20 Mar 06,, 23:11
I remember seeing that picture in an AK book somewhere. I think it was an experimental magazine that, for obvious reasons, didn't make it to the mass production stage.

jame$thegreat
28 Mar 06,, 02:03
not the best gun but a funny pico


one would assume that the magazine itself would be easily broken because of its awkwardness (how much it sticks out) and its relative size and weight. im positive that one hard hit during transport would dent it bad enough to limit the amount it could hold or damage it bad enogh it would have to be clipped to a smaller size (making it obsolete)

leib10
28 Mar 06,, 03:01
Hence why it never saw widespread use.

Wardogg1990
08 Jul 06,, 13:33
Say hello to my little friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jame$thegreat
09 Jul 06,, 04:11
Say hello to my little friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


raven? imagine humping that? hah probably weighs like 150lbs what a waste of time and ammunition (and i know snipe willl agree with me on this one) one shot one kill, its more effecitent

ArmchairGeneral
09 Jul 06,, 04:36
LOL. The Minigun was not exactly intended for handheld use, despite what you may have seen in Predator. Put that sucker on a helicopter, though, and you have one mean weapon for suppressing fire. Or for hunting coyotes. :biggrin:

leib10
09 Jul 06,, 16:59
http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/weapons-ww1-enemy/maxim-gun2.jpg

The Maxim guns of various makes. This one is an MG08.

jame$thegreat
09 Jul 06,, 19:19
LOL. The Minigun was not exactly intended for handheld use, despite what you may have seen in Predator. Put that sucker on a helicopter, though, and you have one mean weapon for suppressing fire. Or for hunting coyotes. :biggrin:


i know that, but even then, its just lik try to hit an exact spot with a spray bottle, its a waste of brass slugs because you can use those slugs for a weapon that will be more efficient in terms of kill to ammo spent. and casings, powder, transport space etc. keep in mind in a wartime scenario efficienty is EVERYTHING

pdf27
09 Jul 06,, 21:00
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/smle1mk3r.jpg

Truly fantastic bit of kit...

leib10
11 Jul 06,, 03:38
The first true submachine gun (the Villar Perosa was NOT the first; although chambered for a pistol cartridge, it was designed to be used as an LMG):

http://www.cybershooters.org/Royal%20Armoury/Schmeisser.JPG

ArmchairGeneral
11 Jul 06,, 05:08
That the Bergmann?

leib10
11 Jul 06,, 06:13
Yep, MP18. The Thompson came a few years later.

Canmoore
14 Aug 06,, 17:31
This weapon, although it has terrible range, and puts the user into a position were he is a prime target, and if shot will die a horrible death...this weapon during its time, was the ultimate psychological weapon, plus it was great for clearing pill boxes, sucking the oxygen out of tunnels, and great at removing dug in enemies. This is the M2A1-7 Flamethrower.

ArmchairGeneral
14 Aug 06,, 18:46
The first military breech loading rifle. Designed by the man whose tail we hillbillies whupped at Kings Mountain.

http://johno.myiglou.com/images/ferguson3.jpg

sappersgt
14 Aug 06,, 18:56
Is that a Ferguson? :cool:

ArmchairGeneral
14 Aug 06,, 19:00
Is that a Ferguson? :cool:
Exactly. :) Or to be accurate, an exact reproduction.

ArmchairGeneral
14 Aug 06,, 19:02
Closeup.

http://johno.myiglou.com/images/ferguson4.jpg

leib10
14 Aug 06,, 19:16
I never thought of that. But that is a very significant firearm.

sappersgt
14 Aug 06,, 19:28
How's the gas seal? I'd heard the originals leaked a bit, not bad but a bit. With all of the other pyrotehnics going in the pan/frizzen area it would'nt make much difference. :) :cool:

ArmchairGeneral
14 Aug 06,, 19:49
Here's some stuff from the site I found the pics on.


"Loading is, as one may imagine, quite rapid. No careful measuring of powder, and especially no ramming of the ball down the barrel. To anyone who has fired a lot of black powder rifles, loading the Ferguson seems, well, a bit incomplete. You get this nagging feeling that you've forgotten something. You have - no ramming the bullet down the barrel!

Firing it produces a hefty crack, and recoil consistent with a 65 caliber round ball, which is to say it kicks, but not painfully so. It does blow powder and reside both up and down, out the screw threads, you can feel a puff of breeze on your forehead when the charge goes off. The first shot out of a clean Ferguson almost always goes without a hitch. Then, you experience the rapid reload, which seems even quicker after you've fired a shot. One twist of the handle, and the breech is open. Push a greased bullet into the breech. Pour powder in until the chamber looks full - the breech plug will knock out any excess. Twist the handle back. Prime the tray, ****, and let fly. With practice, a reload can be done reliably in 8 to 9 seconds. (Legend has it that Simon Kenton could reload his Kentucky rifle in 12 seconds) You can load it while lying down, though it isn't quite as quick. Nor as hazardous during a battle, but that's another matter entirely...

You also begin to experience the shortcomings. Up to the third shot, things go quite smoothly and rapidly - no swabbing the bore, no ramming a bullet down a freshly fired barrel. About the third shot, the screw mechanism begins to clog up. By the fourth shot, the screw breech no longer opens. You'll need to dribble a bit of water on the breech threads to free it up. This happens, no matter how much grease you put on the threads. Fergie has a sensitive touch hole - if you don't clean it after every shot, it will begin to either misfire or hang fire after the 2nd or 3rd shot, and I've noticed that this rifle has some very lengthy hang fires. Click, whoosh, oops, nothing, darn it... start to lower the rifle and BAM! Exercise extreme caution with misfires, it can still go off. So it loads quickly, but if you take full advantage of that fast load, normal black powder maintenance will stop you after a few shots. There is also the flintlock mechanism, and the tray in need of priming. Very easy to get this wrong, especially if you are in a hurry. You can dump 3F powder in the tray and get rid of the 2nd flask, but you usually get slow ignition. Dump in too much, and you get the normal flintlock slow fire: click, sssssssss, pow!"

"Owning this very faithful reproduction has been an education in why this rifle was such an advancement. It could be reloaded rapidly, and reloaded while lying down. However, it was still subject to many black powder limitations. The figure of seven to eight shots per minute is strictly theoretical - after three or four, you have to stop and clean the action - a most interesting discovery, and one the history books do not record. I've seen only the briefest mention of power fouling in Ferguson history, and it is mentioned only to explain the vertical grooves cut in the threads. (which don't do much for the fouling, by the way)

However, that is from the perspective of a person holding an expensive reproduction rifle. On the battlefield, back in the 1700's, it might have been a different story. If you forget about the concern for corroding an expensive reproduction, you might splash a little water on the action every 2nd or 3rd shot, and keep it from freezing up. Attach a pick to your priming flask, and give the touchhole a quick swat as you prime. Not quite trouble free, but still way ahead of the muzzle loaders. Eventually, prolonged exposure to acid (black power residue + water = sulfuric acid, which is why I don't do this - I use powder solvent) may have rendered the rifles inoperable. But, we'll never know. The rifles were taken out of use after one battle, and as far as I have been able to ascertain, no operating manual for a Ferguson is known to exist."

"The brainchild of Major Patrick Ferguson. Breechloaders had been built prior to Ferguson, most notably the rifles made by Chaumette, but they were delicate affairs, unsuited to the rigors of military requirements. Ferguson took an existing idea: the screw breech, and built it into a practical military firearm, or at least as practical as technology of the time (1770's) would permit.

His major innovation was to incorporate the screw breech into the trigger guard, with a handle that didn't detach and become lost, and stayed out of the way when not being used. Screw breech rifles of the time usually had a detachable handle that protruded from the side of the rifle. This alteration made the rifle into a practical weapon that could be operated in the field without fear of losing parts. "

"One hundred military Ferguson rifles were produced, and then shipped to the colonies along with a detachment that Ferguson had trained and led. They engaged in their one and only action at the Battle of Brandywine, one of the bloodiest clashes in the war. Ferguson's detachment was said to have been fairly effective. As there were 100 Ferguson equipped soldiers among the over 30,000 soldiers involved in the battle, they could hardly have had much effect, one way or another. In this battle, Ferguson was wounded. While recuperating, his unit was disbanded, and the rifles put away. The soldiers were issued standard Brown Bess rifles.

Upon recovery, Ferguson was assigned duty in the South, where he was said to have encouraged the destruction of civilian property by his troops, as a way to deprive the enemy of a means to survive. He met his end at the Battle of King's Mountain, Surrounded, he refused to surrender and was shot off of his horse. His cruelty to the locals hadn't exactly made him any friends, either."

"So why did the British not use the Ferguson? There have been hints that General Howe had them packed away as he secretly sympathized with the colonists, and had made statements to that effect earlier. However, Howe was Ferguson's sponsor, and was responsible for the detachment and rifles being built and brought to the colonies.

The most likely explanation is much simpler: armies of the time, especially successful ones, tend to be very conservative in equipment. What already works is kept in use, until an enemy comes up with something better. The Ferguson rifle cost upwards of three times as much to produce as the Brown Bess, and the British Army already had a full compliment of those, with a good deal of service life left. Care to go to the House of Commons in 1776 and ask for that sort of money? To replace perfectly good rifles? My dear General, have you taken leave of your senses?

My experience with this reproduction has shown that it wasn't quite the breakthrough that some have made it out to be. However, many of the drawbacks can be addressed, at least partially. So was it the super rifle that was abandoned? Perhaps. And, perhaps not. The idea was not unique, and was to come up again in military form."

"The bottom line appears to be that the Ferguson rifle was just too far ahead of its time to justify large scale employment. It's rapid fire capability, substantially faster than the typical rifle or smoothbore musket of the day, lacked the tactics to use it to full advantage. Those tactics lacked the situation to justify their employment. The cost of manufacture was substantially higher than conventional rifles, and could be made only by the most expert metalworkers, people who were in short supply, and would have been taken off of other critical tasks. It was also in the possession of a nation that already had a successful military, and saw little reason to make a radical and expensive departure from a known successful method. Had the Ferguson been invented by the colonists, who were already doing well with new and unconventional tactics, it might have been put to more effective use."

Bill
14 Aug 06,, 22:23
raven? imagine humping that? hah probably weighs like 150lbs what a waste of time and ammunition (and i know snipe willl agree with me on this one) one shot one kill, its more effecitent

I dunno dude, M134s(7.62mm minigun as pictured above) are badassed weapons, but they're certainly not man-portable, lol.

Bill
14 Aug 06,, 22:25
LOL. The Minigun was not exactly intended for handheld use, despite what you may have seen in Predator. Put that sucker on a helicopter, though, and you have one mean weapon for suppressing fire. Or for hunting coyotes. :biggrin:

When Mike Durant was shot down in Mogadishu he says in his book that he remembered looking at the mini-gun and the 10,000 rounds of ammo he had on board his CrashHawk and wishing that it wasn't electrically driven. The Blackhawks onboard batteries alone cannot power the gun, so it was useless to the defenders of the crash site, and they were eventually overrun.

Maybe if it'd had mounted M-240Cs or Ma Dueces they'd have been able to hold out till help arrived.

leib10
15 Aug 06,, 00:18
That's what I was saying in the other thread. The Minigun is a worthless piece of **** if no power is available.

Bill
15 Aug 06,, 01:09
That's what I was saying in the other thread. The Minigun is a worthless piece of **** if no power is available.

So it would seem.

ArmchairGeneral
15 Aug 06,, 01:57
When Mike Durant was shot down in Mogadishu he says in his book that he remembered looking at the mini-gun and the 10,000 rounds of ammo he had on board his CrashHawk and wishing that it wasn't electrically driven. The Blackhawks onboard batteries alone cannot power the gun, so it was useless to the defenders of the crash site, and they were eventually overrun.

Maybe if it'd had mounted M-240Cs or Ma Dueces they'd have been able to hold out till help arrived.
That's a very interesting point. Maybe they should add a handcrank. :biggrin:

omon
08 Nov 06,, 18:35
battle prooven

gunnut
08 Nov 06,, 19:09
That's a very interesting point. Maybe they should add a handcrank. :biggrin:

Can you imagine some guy frantically cranking away on a manual generator while the machinegunner mows down a throng of people in a hurry to see the 72 virgins in heaven? :biggrin:

The generator guy slows down a bit and the minigun's firing rate slows down with it...

leib10
08 Nov 06,, 19:22
Then it might as well be a Gatling gun. :biggrin:

gunnut
08 Nov 06,, 20:11
Then it might as well be a Gatling gun. :biggrin:

Oh yeah, silly me. Why reinvent the wheel?:tongue:

Bill
08 Nov 06,, 20:26
Oh yeah, silly me. Why reinvent the wheel?:tongue:
So that you can power your unpowered electrically driven gat when you are about to be overrun by Somalis...

Your idea was IMO a good one. :)

For the greatest list:

http://home.cetin.net.cn/storage/cetin2/report/s-weapon/gun/bq/M21.jpg
(I wish mine was that nice!)

jame$thegreat
09 Nov 06,, 00:58
battle prooven

A fan of German firearms huh? I did a report of the guns of WW II last year specifically comparing and contrasting American and German guns like the Colt .45, Luger 9mm, M3 grease gun, Mp40...and included spent shells (not from WWII but of the same caliber) Got a 96 and enjoyed the research.

omon
10 Nov 06,, 17:10
A fan of German firearms huh? I did a report of the guns of WW II last year specifically comparing and contrasting American and German guns like the Colt .45, Luger 9mm, M3 grease gun, Mp40...and included spent shells (not from WWII but of the same caliber) Got a 96 and enjoyed the research.

kind of ,gemans make awesome guns, overcomplicated tough.they give the rest of the world ideas,germans, russians and americans IMO are world leaders in firearms.

leib10
11 Nov 06,, 00:45
Americans don't even design many indigenous military arms anymore.

omon
11 Nov 06,, 05:19
Americans don't even design many indigenous military arms anymore.
not military but hunting, allmost every year some new rifles , revolvers, rounds come out.every time i buy gun magazine i drool like bulldog,every time i see something new came out.
where i live NYC even gun magazines are hard to find, they used to be in every newsstand, not anymore, NYC is very negative to guns 10 years ago there was at least 4 gun stores in my neirboughood now only 1 left.

jame$thegreat
12 Nov 06,, 05:02
not military but hunting, allmost every year some new rifles , revolvers, rounds come out.every time i buy gun magazine i drool like bulldog,every time i see something new came out.
where i live NYC even gun magazines are hard to find, they used to be in every newsstand, not anymore, NYC is very negative to guns 10 years ago there was at least 4 gun stores in my neirboughood now only 1 left.

Yup, NYC is the worst place to live if you are at all a fan of firearms. Where is that gun store btw, i didnt know there was one in Coney. Believe me if you are at all interested in firearms at my age in NYC you are automatically considered a sick minded individual or a future serial killer!:mad:

omon
12 Nov 06,, 05:53
Yup, NYC is the worst place to live if you are at all a fan of firearms. Where is that gun store btw, i didnt know there was one in Coney. Believe me if you are at all interested in firearms at my age in NYC you are automatically considered a sick minded individual or a future serial killer!:mad:
it's on new utrech and 71 or72nd.(if it wasn't for cops that shop there it would be gone too) there used to be one on coney island ave and ave x(that store sells tumbstones now), on fort hamilton and 94st, and thyere was another one in bay ridge dont remember exactly, all of them gone, have to drive to LI now.

jame$thegreat
13 Nov 06,, 01:20
it's on new utrech and 71 or72nd.(if it wasn't for cops that shop there it would be gone too) there used to be one on coney island ave and ave x(that store sells tumbstones now), on fort hamilton and 94st, and thyere was another one in bay ridge dont remember exactly, all of them gone, have to drive to LI now.

What kind of variety do they have? Do you know of any range anywhere near Brooklyn that rents guns, that you don't have to be a police officer to shoot in?

omon
18 Nov 06,, 17:06
What kind of variety do they have? Do you know of any range anywhere near Brooklyn that rents guns, that you don't have to be a police officer to shoot in?

they have rifles shotguns pistols bows ..ect. the closest place to shoot if you don,t have a gun would be PA. i love that state.

Maxor
25 Nov 06,, 13:36
I'm going to have to put up a picture of a land pattern musket. Any gun that is the front line issue for either the most powerful military on the planet or second most powerful (depending on how you feel about napolean and european land power)for over a century has to have something going for it.

http://www.aurorahistoryboutique.com/products/C000077_L.jpg

Honestly the gun was just average to slightly above average in most catagories for its day. What it had though was for a flintlock good reliability and standard ammo and parts.

SalemPoor
25 Dec 06,, 19:57
Americans don't even design many indigenous military arms anymore.

"indigenous military arm?" English literacy aside, who outside of the US designed all those M-16 and their variants?

leib10
25 Dec 06,, 21:50
I don't understand your question.