LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by gunnut
No doubt the coalition
You are busy arnt you GN ?..so it wont be you
Double standard? If by you mean by arguing that Libya and Iran are completely similar, then I guess, yes. But even though they are similar with killing innocents and international terrorism, they have many differences.
We are not baking cookies here, and comparing recipes. We have real people, both Military and Civilians analyzing and determining the conditions of the environment, and make decisions based on that, but if were negated, by the fact of double standards, and why we didn't act here and there.... then we would get no where.
I think of a quote, from Ronald Reagen "it didn't upset my breakfast at all"How do you plan to carry out this "no fly zone?" Do we need a UN resolution? Or just go it alone? China and Russia had already stated they will veto any UN resolution regarding a no fly zone.
Note not comparing. Just referring to precedent.
Afghanistan, self defense I know. But did we have Security Council authorization of Force?
Iraq? We had Security Council resolutions. But explicitly they said, any further action would have to be taken with Council resolutions.
I mean, precedent shows, that US has acted without Security Council resolutions. Even with regards to Libya.
How about Grenada?
" General Assembly Resolution 38/7 which "deeply deplores the armed intervention in Grenada, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and of the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of that State".[5] "
Panama?
On 29 December, the General Assembly of the United Nations voted 75–20 with 40 abstentions to condemn the invasion as a flagrant violation of international law.
So, yes many differences and both at the same time similarities. However, whats important to note, that the US has acted even without United States Security Council resolutions. Honestly, I can't think of the last time the US got a Security Council resolution.
Thats an interesting argument, that should have bearing on any decision that is made. Your right, what if he is victorious, what happens of the no-fly zone.What happens if Gadhafi emerges from this victorious? Do we lift the no fly zone? Do we commit ground troops to capture him?
Guess, the US could implement sanctions. And continue a no-fly zone, on the basis of it's mission, but if he failed to use any more air power against the populace, I suspect it could be lifted.
If anything were to happen again, readily resumed again. If any hostile acts, and provocations, then you would have to wait and see what those were before you have any questions of ground forces.
Overthrowing a dictator, by providing limited support. And possibly, one surgical strike to give justice to all the previous people who have died, and also, give a new future to the Libyan people? One surgical strike, if it could succeed. All that is needed. Then you see all the support crumble.What's in it for us?
No doubt the coalition
You are busy arnt you GN ?..so it wont be you
Last edited by T_igger_cs_30; 10 Mar 11, at 00:25.
FEAR NAUGHT
Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?
Which means the US. Thanks, but no thanks.
Wait...on second thought, we should get involved. It will be Obama's blunder. He might even lose his re-election if he gets us into a mess we shouldn't have been in.
You are busy arnt you GN ?..so it wont be you
I'm banging my head against the keyboard because Roosie seems to think home grown christian extremists are as dangerous as home grown muslim extremists.
Hey, I'm all for sharia law, as long as we start with San Francisco first.
Last edited by gunnut; 10 Mar 11, at 00:41.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
National interest. It was in our backyard and Soviet influence was getting into Grenada via the Cuban proxy.
National interest. He was interfering with our canal operation. Panama Canal is of VITAL national interest.
Again, what's in it for us? Give a future to the Libyan people? What happened to the last time we protected a bunch of muslims? We're still the Big Satan.
Like what the Colonel said, if the rebels win, they won't remember, if the rebels lose, Gadhafi won't forget. We get nothing out of this deal.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
Could be a typo? Kinda multi-tasking. So take it for what its worth. Unless it really bothers you, you are free too edit my post, if your a mod.
Oh, Gadaffi renounced international terrorism. And he also doesn't contribute in any way. I still find the guy a threat, though. Just as much Osama. those International terrorists... they can be terrorists one decade...but the others be peace loving, hippes... sarcasm aside.Osama is still at war with us. That's the difference. There is no justice in international affairs, only national interest. Osama is a threat. Gadhafi is not.
Justice served isn't a national interest? Whats to deter others?
And the belief that a future democratic North Africa could be of national interest. Muslim democracies that don't see the United States as the great Satan. The reason behind, there leaders escaping there own corruption and blaming it on the United States. See 9-11. You think, 9-11 will be the last time? And the way the world is going, it won't happen again? Hey maybe if you do give them freedom, get rid of the leaders, and fanaticism....
Nothing is immediate. But I disagree, getting rid of a guy like Gadaffi, turns out to be a good day. And hope for the people that are over there. Can't really say how our interest affect overnight.Again, what's in it for us? Give a future to the Libyan people? What happened to the last time we protected a bunch of muslims? We're still the Big Satan.
Like what the Colonel said, if the rebels win, they won't remember, if the rebels lose, Gadhafi won't forget. We get nothing out of this deal.
Last edited by Dago; 10 Mar 11, at 00:44.
Definitely not a typo. You use "too" when you should have used "to" in every single one of your posts. And I'm not a mod...
He's a bad guy, but he's not a threat to this country, for now. You can bet we'd find an excuse to invade Libya if he were a threat. He made sure we didn't have that excuse when he gave up his WMD program.
What's to deter others? A good old fashioned war to make life difficult for the dictator, who is actually a threat to us.
We removed Saddam because he wouldn't play ball. Gadhafi played ball a few years back so we left him alone.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
If you mean more toys than the rest ... your right, there GN hows the ego doing now.............rubbed enough yet?Which means the US. Thanks, but no thanks.
Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?
Democracy may not be a good thing. Hamas won the election in Gaza. Muslims will hate us because we are not muslims. If we were, we would not be the right kind of muslim. More muslims have died at the hands of other muslims than any other religion.
I don't support Gadhafi in any way. I just don't see the need to get involved in a civil war. By the way, who are the anti-Gadhafi factions? Are they pro-US? Will they be fair and just toward other Libyans should we help them remove Gadhafi? What if we put these people in power and they turn out to be dictators? Muslims will have a great new reason to hate us. After all, we supported Mubarak, the Shah of Iran, and the Saud family.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
Anyone remember Operation El Dorado Canyon? If he WERE a threat, multiply that by 100; probably wouldn't be too many buildings left standing in Libya. Factor in the fact that we're using much more advanced aircraft (probably B-2's, although B-1's would probably work just fine), and more advanced PGM's, and I'm sure we could do a lot more damage to the Libyan infrastructure than in 1986.
Last edited by Stitch; 10 Mar 11, at 02:14.
"Yeah. See, we plan ahead, that way we don't do anything right now. Earl explained it to me." - Tremors, 1990
gunnut,
be careful with that terminology. more than a few muslims have died fighting alongside us, and there's quite a few crescents in arlington cemetery.Muslims will hate us because we are not muslims.
The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"
-Leo Tolstoy
War and Peace
Qaddafy has already gave his pound of flesh. By his release of his own Libyan nuclear program, we can prove that Iran illegally obatined nunclear warheads blueprints.
Qaddafy has yet to demand his pound of flesh but do not mistaken, it is coming.
Chimo
Portugal today Ring any bells......................................wait out Sir
Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?
RSM,
Qaddafy ain't an idiot. He already knows that his demands four our pound of flesh will go unanswered. We were NEVER expected to come to his defence ... and would gladly cheer his demise. He got the best he could hope for. Our neutrality.
Chimo
Past Update
EU Official: Ashton Knew Of Portugal-Libya Official Meeting
Wednesday, Mar 09, 2011
BRUSSELS (Dow Jones)--An envoy from Col. Moammar Gadhafi's regime has headed to Portugal for a meeting with Portugal's foreign minister Luis Amado on Wednesday, a spokeswoman for Amado said.
The spokeswoman was unable to identify the official but said the meeting was arranged to prepare for the European Union's summit on Libya on Friday and that it was "agreed with Catherine Ashton"--the EU's foreign policy chief.
A senior EU official confirmed that Ashton knew of the meeting.
"I understand the Portuguese side were in touch with us about the" possible meeting, she said.
The official said Ashton's response was that the Portuguese government should go ahead and keep the EU closely informed and the sending of the envoy seemed to be part of a "diplomatic offensive" by Gadhafi's regime in recent days, which has included foreign media interviews by the Libyan leader.
On Tuesday, the opposition National Libyan Council traveled to Strasbourg to meet Ashton and members of the European parliament.
The EU is in the process of broadening sanctions on Libya but has said its priority at present is to focus on soothing the humanitarian situation.
It has also called for Gadhafi's regime to leave power but senior officials have said that any peaceful resolution to the conflict in Libya is worth pursuing.
EU Foreign ministers gather in Brussels on Thursday to discuss the Libyan situation and EU heads of government hold their summit on Libya on Friday.
-By Laurence Norman, Dow Jones Newswires; 32-2471-1480; laurence.norman@dowjones.com
(END) Dow Jones Newswires
09-03-11 1811GMT
http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZW...20110309000212
Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Share this thread with friends: