Thread: No Fly Zone for Libya?

Originally Posted by Dago

And wasn't the disco bombing in Germany?

The LaBelle bombing was in Berlin, in the US zone, which wasn't a part of Germany (and not under German jurisdiction or legislation) until 1990. And yeah, no Germans or Berliners died in it either. The dead were two US soldiers and a Turkish woman. Eleven Berliners were seriously injured, 152 more lightly injured.

Four of the five people involved in the bombing (three Germans, one Palestinian, one Libyan) received sentences of 12 to 14 years each in a German court ruling in 2001 and are all sitting in jail right now. The fifth, one of the two German women, was acquitted for lack of evidence. At least two of the perps - the other woman and her Lebanese-German ex-husband - were actually proven double agents of East-German domestic intelligence services turned by the Libyan intelligence.

All non-US victims were compensated in a mutual settlement with Gaddafi in 2004, with the relatives of the dead Turkish woman receiving one million bucks, the seriously injured receiving 350 grand and the lightly injured 190 grand each.
The US victims - the two dead and some eighty injured - were compensated by US court ruling and - irrespective of degree of victimization - cashed in a flat 8 million Dollar each in 2008, when Bush signed the Libya Claims Resolution Act.

And you would be correct, but I would add...... the mastermind still remains free.

Actually, the local groups were pretty free on their target decision.

For the Berlin attack, there were five possible targets evaluated by the group: The LaBelle discotheque, a McDonalds restaurant, an US Military Base, a US Military Hospital and the American Consulate in Berlin. LaBelle was decided on as the easiest target to hit quickly (was actually only #3 on the evaluated list), since the attack was a direct reaction to the sinking of two Libyan ships by the US Navy ten days earlier.

Originally Posted by kato

Actually, the local groups were pretty free on their target decision.

For the Berlin attack, there were five possible targets evaluated by the group: The LaBelle discotheque, a McDonalds restaurant, an US Military Base, a US Military Hospital and the American Consulate in Berlin. LaBelle was decided on as the easiest target to hit quickly (was actually only #3 on the evaluated list), since the attack was a direct reaction to the sinking of two Libyan ships by the US Navy ten days earlier.

Actually, kinda referring, on there material support, and direction of a Libyan dictator, that you think had nothing to do with any of it. And, also the bombing of airliners full of civilians. But whether they were sleepers or not, I was not arguing, nor the specific target. Or if Gadaffi spoke with them 2 minutes before the bombing and sending them flowers a few hours after. But more rather of there origin, finacial support, ideology guidance, and directions they were given to act as a proxy.

The Times - Wednesday, March 9

William Hague blamed a “serious misunderstanding” with rebel leaders for the botched diplomatic mission to eastern Libya as recriminations flew around Whitehall.

The Foreign Secretary insisted that the anti-Gaddafi council in Benghazi had welcomed the idea of meeting British diplomats, as he defended his decision to authorise the operation. It ended with the two MI6 officials and their six special forces “bodyguards” from the Special Boat Service being withdrawn after they were detained for two days by armed Libyan farmers.

Diplomatic and defence sources blamed the “mindset” of the special forces for surprising locals with a drop-off by helicopter under cover of darkness instead of deploying from HMS Cumberland in Benghazi harbour.

However, other officials pinned blame on an intelligence and diplomatic failure for misjudging conditions on the ground. “We have not had our finest hour,” one Whitehall official said.

Mr Hague said that the timing and details of the mission had been “decided by the professionals”, but added that he took full ministerial responsibility. The Prime Minister was aware that it was going ahead. Mr Hague told the Commons that he would shortly send in another team of diplomats, but “on a very different basis”.

A poll for The Times today shows that there is significant support among voters for Britain to take a leading role in the Libyan crisis. Almost half back military intervention on humanitarian grounds and a clear majority support help for refugees regardless of their country of origin.

In the Commons, Mr Hague was taunted from both sides of the chamber for the failings of the weekend mission. Sir Menzies Campbell, the former Liberal Democrat leader, said it had been “ill conceived, poorly planned and embarrassingly executed”.

Douglas Alexander, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said the failed mission raised further questions about Mr Hague’s response to events in Libya.

Mr Alexander, referring to the night-time helicopter landing, said that voters would wonder, if new neighbours moved in next door to the Foreign Secretary, “whether he would introduce himself by ringing the doorbell or instead choose to climb over the fence in the middle of the night”.

The Special Boat Service team took off in a Chinook from Valetta, Malta, in the early hours of Friday, it emerged yesterday. By the time senior government officials in London had discussed sending diplomats to meet the rebels, the team had already been detained.

However, the Populus poll found that 49 per cent of respondents believe that Britain should be prepared to use military force to prevent foreign regimes from launching attacks against citizens campaigning for freedom. This compares with 45 per cent of respondents who were against such a measure. Liberal Democrats were least in favour, with 50 per cent opposed to intervention.

The poll also found that a big majority supported Britain helping refugees, with 68 per cent in favour and 28 per cent against such a move. This effectively endorsed the mission last week by Andrew Mitchell, the International Development Secretary, to help refugees on the Libyan-Tunisian border.Britain also has an obligation to passport holders working abroad when their safety is threatened by political unrest, according to voters, with 86 per cent in favour and 11 per cent opposed.

Mr Hague said that any no-fly zone would require “a clear legal basis” and support from the region.
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Diplomatic and defence sources blamed the “mindset” of the special forces for surprising locals with a drop-off by helicopter under cover of darkness instead of deploying from HMS Cumberland in Benghazi harbour

bet even the "defence sources" were civil servants attached to MOD.

“We have not had our finest hour,” one Whitehall official said.

NO Sh*t.

Hague told the Commons that he would shortly send in another team of diplomats, but “on a very different basis

Rumour has it, the bodygaurds for the Diplomats will be John Cleese, Rowan Atkinson, Stehen Fry and Hugh Laurie............ if they do not beat them by making them laugh they will make better diplomats than we have got anyway.........

At the mo i am watching PM's Q's and the house is full , except for Hague

Originally Posted by tankie

At the mo i am watching PM's Q's and the house is full , except for Hague

Miss his bus did he ?..............................

UN WIRE - Monday, March 7

The U.N.'s tough stand on Qaddafi: exception or rule? - By Colum Lynch | Turtle Bay

For the first time, the 15-nation council's major powers had overcome their historic reservations about the Hague-based International Criminal Court (ICC) and joined in a unanimous vote to invite the tribunal's Argentine prosecutor, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, to investigate possible crimes against humanity perpetrated by Qaddafi's government

The U.N.'s old guard, Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela have denounced what it is has described as a U.S. led plot to occupy Libya.

the Obama administration's calls for regime change in Libya have fueled suspicions about American, British and French military intentions,

Originally Posted by tankie

At the mo i am watching PM's Q's and the house is full , except for Hague

I love PM's QT...It's the best comedy on tv.