Thread: Revolution in Egypt and the wider Arab world?

The idea of analysis is to give more than 50/50.Otherwise we could just toss coins.Right now the conditions on the ground don't leave much to the optimist in me. The pessimist ,however, has much to work with.

You may keep your hope,but I let mine at the gates of the Inferno

Originally Posted by Double Edge

We will see

Right now its 50-50, you have equal chance of being correct or not.

Actually it is 100%, but the game is still playing...

Cairo institute burned during clashes

Egyptian academics and volunteers scramble to save thousands of rare manuscripts that chart history of the nation

Volunteers in white lab coats, surgical gloves and masks stood on the back of a pickup truck along the banks of the Nile in Cairo, rummaging through stacks of rare 200-year-old manuscripts that were little more than charcoal debris.

The volunteers, ranging from academic experts to appalled citizens, have spent the past two days trying to salvage what's left of some 192,000 books, journals and writings, casualties of Egypt's latest bout of violence.

The Institute of Egypt, a research centre set up by Napoleon Bonaparte during France's invasion in the late 18th century, caught fire during clashes between protesters and Egypt's military over the weekend. It was home to a treasure trove of writings, most notably the handwritten 24-volume Description de l'Egypte, which began during the 1798-1801 French occupation. It includes 20 years of observations by more than 150 French scholars and scientists, was one of the most comprehensive descriptions of Egypt's monuments, its ancient civilisation and contemporary life at the time.

It is probably now burned beyond repair.

Its home, the two-storey historic institute near Tahrir Square, is now in danger of collapsing after the roof caved in.

"The burning of such a rich building means a large part of Egyptian history has ended," the director of the institute, Mohammed al-Sharbouni, said at the weekend.

Al-Sharbouni said most of the contents were destroyed in the fire that raged for more than 12 hours on Saturday. Firefighters flooded the building with water, adding to the damage.

During the clashes a day earlier, parts of the parliament and a transportation authority office caught fire, but those blazes were put out quickly.

The violence erupted in Cairo on Friday, when military forces guarding the cabinet building, near the institute, cracked down on a three-week-old sit-in to demand the country's ruling generals hand power to a civilian authority. At least 14 people have been killed.

Zein Abdel-Hady, who runs the country's main library, is leading the effort to try and save what's left of the charred manuscripts. "This is equal to the burning of Galileo's books," Abdel-Hady said, referring to the Italian scientist whose work proposing that the earth revolved around the sun was believed to have been burned in protest in the 17th century.

Below Abdel-Hady's office, dozens of people sifted through the mounds of debris brought to the library. A man in a surgical coat carried a pile of burned paper with his arms carefully spread, as if cradling a baby.

The rescuers used newspapers to cover some partially burned books. Bulky machines vacuum-packed delicate paper.

At least 16 truckloads, with around 50,000 manuscripts, some damaged beyond repair, have been moved from the pavements outside the US Embassy and the American University in Cairo, both near the burned institute, to the main library, Abdel-Hady said.

He told the Associated Press that there is no way of knowing what has been lost for good at this stage, but the material was worth tens of millions of dollars.

"I haven't slept for two days, and I cried a lot yesterday. I do not like to see a book burned," he said. "The whole of Egypt is crying."

He said that there are four other handwritten copies of the Description of Egypt. The French body of work has also been digitised and is available online.

There may have been a map of Egypt and Ethiopia, dated in 1753, that was destroyed in the fire. However, another original copy of the map is in Egypt's national library, he said. The gutted institute also housed 16th-century letters and manuscripts that were bound and shelved like books.

The most accessible inventory at the moment for what was housed in the institute is in a book kept in the US Library of Congress, according to William Kopycki, a regional field director with the library. He said the body of work that was destroyed was essential for researchers of Egyptian history, Arabic studies and Egyptology.

"It's a loss of a very important institute that many scholars have visited," he said during a meeting with Abdel-Hady to evaluate the level of destruction.

What remains inside the historic building near the site of the clashes are piles of burned furniture, twisted metal and crumbled walls. A double human chain of protesters surrounded the building on Monday.

At a news conference on Monday, a general from the country's ruling military council said an investigation was under way to find who set the building on fire. State television aired images of men in plainclothes burning the building and dancing around the fire on Saturday afternoon. Protesters also took advantage of the fire, using the institute's grounds to hurl firebombs and rocks at soldiers on top of surrounding buildings.

A military colonel, helping out with rescue efforts at the library, said about 10 soldiers have been tasked with assisting the volunteers.

Volunteer Ahmed el-Bindari said the military shoulders the brunt of responsibility for using its roof as a position to attack protesters before the fire erupted.

"When the government wants to protect something, they do," el-Bindari said. "Try to reach the interior ministry or defence ministry buildings. You won't be able to."

No beaches, attacks on Christians, elected Islamists, burned down these historical works - oh yes progress.

Modern day Library of Alexandria... Bloody shame.

Heinrich Heine said it almost 200 years ago: "That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also."

The Egyptians and the burning of libraries have a history spanning 2000 years.

Considering who did this,we saw it coming.If one will make a foundation in order to take in a safe place all the books and artefacts I'll give money to it.Culture is universal,just as idiot destroyers are.

Originally Posted by Mihais

The Egyptians and the burning of libraries have a history spanning 2000 years.

Considering who did this,we saw it coming.If one will make a foundation in order to take in a safe place all the books and artefacts I'll give money to it.Culture is universal,just as idiot destroyers are.

Second that. Too bad you can't put buildings in a safe place, too.

Originally Posted by Doktor

Second that. Too bad you can't put buildings in a safe place, too.

It is unclear from the article whether the building was deliberately burned because of what it was or whether it was simply 'collateral damage' resulting from violent protests (I note other buildings burned too). I note that some have already decided which it was. (bet Arthur Harris burned more books than every Islamic thug in history).

Originally Posted by Bigfella

It is unclear from the article whether the building was deliberately burned because of wha tit was or whether it was simply 'collateral damage' resulting from violent protests (I note other buildings burned too). I note that some have already decided which it was. (bet Arthur Harris burned more books than every Islamic thug in history).

Why you bring the religion to this? Nazis burned their books before Harris

I'm quite sure Harris burned a lot of books.He was bombing afteral,l one of the most cultivated nations in the world.I'm sure a lot of books burned at Coventry as well.The problem starts when one does it deliberately.Monte Cassino is one case.

I'm pretty sure everyone and his brother knew what was in that building and I'm quite sure it was written on it what it was,just in case someone from outside Cairo comes to riot and rampage in the midle of the city.

Mehmed the 2nd struck down an idiot soldier busy carving down Hagia Sofia.It's not that all Islam is hell bent in destroying culture.But a good part of Islam is just as stupid as the rest of mankind in doing it. Simple as that.

Heinrich Heine said it almost 200 years ago: "That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also."

They were trying to burn people, fucking books got in the way.

Considering who did this,we saw it coming.If one will make a foundation in order to take in a safe place all the books and artefacts I'll give money to it.Culture is universal,just as idiot destroyers are.

No the books belong to a society/culture who had nothing to do with making them

One of the reasons culture is universal.Many monuments had nothing to do with the current inhabitants,yet they don't burn to the ground.
I've no problem fighting for a political idea,even if it's fighting the Crusades again(just as an extreme example).I cannot conceive destroying what even the ancestors of my enemies created wrt culture.I have the utmost disdain for those who think otherwise.Yeah,I'm intolerant and ''prejudiced''.

Well, it's been a personal crusade of mine for years from the time I did some work on the Burton Brothers work in Dunedin.
Most Museum Curators simply WILL NOT digitise the material they hold so when the usual suspects destroy it the best that can be retrieved is reference works.
Even without rioters/nutters/acts of god material and objects can be lost or destroyed anyway.
If there's material irretrievably lost from this the blame lies squarely with the curators.