Originally Posted by glyn

Originally Posted by FibrillatorD

Its no secret your crusade to purge the religious on this board from their unhealthy tendencies. What continues to baffle me is that you assume because "The truth came to [you]" that the rest of us eagerly await you to reveal it.

Are you really that easily baffled? No wonder your avatar shows you a) blowing up a balloon. b) talking to a bomb or c) posing with a ball. You are free to take umbrage at anything I say. I would feel for you were it not for my surfeit of apathy.

As for the unholy genesis of this thread, you extracted an otherwise illuminating verse of a fellow WABbit from a completely relevant context and stuffed it, setting up a strawman for this battle on your crusade. You were a religious man before, surely you experienced faith. Therefore you understand that historical illuminations won't accomplish anything where beliefs rest ultimately on faith, except to make yourself look aloof. Thus, strawman. Thus, mental masturbation. Thus, do very well my good mate keep your "slowly revealed truth" in your pocket like the rest of us mortals.

Are you smoking 'whacky baccy' or over-indulging in Jockalese neck-juice?

Debate the finer points of the Bible if you must, but save the elitist tone and cheap rhetorical tricks for the dog. Deary dear, it makes you sound like a caricature of a man.

Hooray! At least I make a facsimile of a man. You are what we used to call in my 1RTR days a 'dwerg'. Who he? Someone who can get under a snakes belly whilst wearing a top hat. Are you sure you want to trade insults? I learnt that art in the tough school of the armed forces.

Again, I remind you that the quote (and the man) which this whole thread is meant to tear down was in defense of the lives of a few peaceful people who were killed for exercising their right to speak as you speak here. It was a kind, respectful gesture I thought, and you hijacked it in order to evangelize your own agenda, spitting on the graves of the dead in AF in the process. Have you no heart, dear heart?

Originally Posted by zraver

The accuracy of the bible can be best judged by the beliefs and practices of the earliest Christians, before time has a chance to distort them.

Lets look at the central claim about Jesus by modern Christians-

Jesus is God and Christ

This is of course an expression of the Nicene Creed. However is the Creed accurate and truthful to the original Christian beliefs? Or did Constantine corrupt it?

What do ancient non-Christian texts form the same period say?

A Roman governor (Pliny the Younger) in the 1st Century confirms in his letter to Trajan that Christians refused to worship Roman Gods, unto death.
Medieval Sourcebook: Pliny on the Christians
Since these letter were written 96-97 CE we know that the worship of Jesus had spread across the Empire within 60 years of Jesus death.

I entirely agree. There are records of even earlier date in Rome itself.

Tacticus in his annals also discusses Christians. Tacticus lived from 55-120 CE.

No argument from me here either.

Suetonius writing his "The Lives of the Ceasers: 120 CE confirms Christians were persecuted.

That is well understood, but it depended on many factors such as who was caeser at the time?, were they looking for scapegoats?
and other reasons.

BTW Glynn, Octavian was the first Emperor to crown himself Pontifex Maximus (head of the state religion). This tradition still exists in some form today a case in point is Queen Elizabeth by the Grace of God, Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith. She is Lord of Mann, and the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

The monarch still carries these titles.

Constatine never crowned himself Pope, that title has always existed with the Bishop of Rome, initially just 1 of the 5 patriarchs (Rome, Jerusalem, Byzantium, Alexandria, Antioch)

I don't have the evidence at hand to prove whether or not he was 'crowned' as Pope, but he certainly placed himself at the head of the Christian church and used the powers of a Pope. The Christian church, as you well know, had more than one pope at a time at various periods in its history - and were based in various places.

Antioch is important because this is where the term Christian was coined, it was also not founded by Paul but by Peter. Yet this major See was in accordance with the Pauline Doctrine espoused at the Council of Nicea.

It is my belief that 'Paul' (Saul) a Roman citizen from what is today Turkey, was the most influential recruiter to (what became) the Christian faith. He fell out with 'James' brother of Jesus over the vexed question whether proselytes should be circumcised and other issues. The James party largely faded away after the split with Paul. Were it not for Pauls tireless efforts (and connections) I think Christianity would never have become popular and established.

One other fact, the Bishop of Rome is not the only Pope. The Patriarch of Alexandria and the See of St Mark is known as Papa Abba.

Originally Posted by FibrillatorD

Its no secret your crusade to purge the religious on this board from their unhealthy tendencies. What continues to baffle me is that you assume because "The truth came to [you]" that the rest of us eagerly await you to reveal it.

As for the unholy genesis of this thread, you extracted an otherwise illuminating verse of a fellow WABbit from a completely relevant context and stuffed it, setting up a strawman for this battle on your crusade. You were a religious man before, surely you experienced faith. Therefore you understand that historical illuminations won't accomplish anything where beliefs rest ultimately on faith, except to make yourself look aloof. Thus, strawman. Thus, mental masturbation. Thus, do very well my good mate keep your "slowly revealed truth" in your pocket like the rest of us mortals.

Debate the finer points of the Bible if you must, but save the elitist tone and cheap rhetorical tricks for the dog. Deary dear, it makes you sound like a caricature of a man.

Again, I remind you that the quote (and the man) which this whole thread is meant to tear down was in defense of the lives of a few peaceful people who were killed for exercising their right to speak as you speak here. It was a kind, respectful gesture I thought, and you hijacked it in order to evangelize your own agenda, spitting on the graves of the dead in AF in the process. Have you no heart, dear heart?

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

I hope there really is a god though, I've got lots of questions!

Originally Posted by chankya

I'm betting there are so many people with questions that He probably has one of those "Press 1 for "Meaning of Life"..." kind of systems in the lobby.

Originally Posted by Expat Canuck

Very interseting stuff in here. I have to agree with you completely on one thing, early Christian history is really interesting.!

Originally Posted by crooks

The Bible is......too complicated to explain - I take everything I read in it with a fistful of salt though.