Samurai against knight - Page 12

Stuart Mackey · 04-19-2005, 00:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Locke

I think the samurai, even though the knight has an extremely well-protected body, that ultimately becomes his downfall. The knight is basically moving slower than the agile samurai, and even more slow if his weapon of choice is a pike. Sure, the samurai would have to get a very precise and well-aimed slash to even gash the knight's flesh, through the armor's thin (but opened) spots (such as between the helm and the neck-cover).
The knight would probably win the battle if it was in a closed space, since he wileds a long weapon (pike or greatsword), while the samurai would obviously win if it was in opened space.

snip.

And your evidence for the above is???

yatri · 04-19-2005, 23:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxus

Why Persians though? They had an absolute Monarch. Militarily they were inept and had to rely on massive military forces. They got their asses beat by rivaling city states, not once but twice, and got absolutely riped apart by Alexander.

their culture is still lasting. the culture itself is amazing. same reason i LOVE samurai. it's much, much deeper than the actions, and beliefs.. it's a "way of life."

yes, very cliché, but it's true..

PhilosopherJohn · 04-19-2005, 23:53 PM

Due to the different transportation methods of the time, leading to knowledge not being shared, both sides would not have understood the way of war that their opponent practiced. The engagement between European knights and Samurai would likely have ended in a lengthy draw.

Regards, John Higgins

Anon · 04-20-2005, 00:24 AM

Or a very quick victory for one of them.

PhilosopherJohn · 04-20-2005, 00:30 AM

My friend is a military historian, I will have him look into the scenario.

Regards, John Higgins

bull · 04-20-2005, 08:14 AM

if you can fight like this,then armour is a waste............

bull · 04-20-2005, 08:17 AM

like this and like that u can fight.....

Jonathan Locke · 04-20-2005, 16:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart Mackey

And your evidence for the above is???

what part has to be supported?

I think it's obvious that the knight is going to move slower that the samurai. It is also obvious that a pike-wileding knight would definetly win a battle in a closed space, sinc ethe samuari cannot move around to find the weakest spots in the knight's armor therefore the knight would only have to jab at the samurai utnil he gets a hit. Yet, like the posted pictures of samurai show, if it was opened-space, the samurai would just "hop" or move around, avoiding the knights slashes and jabs, until he finds the weak spot and the right timing.

deadkenny · 04-21-2005, 00:01 AM

A pike was a 'formation' weapon, not a good choice for a one-on-one dueling weapon. I suppose it's possible that the knight might 'catch' the samurai with the pike at range. However, the most likely result would be that the samurai would get 'inside' the pike and then the knight is dead.

Stuart Mackey · 04-21-2005, 00:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Locke

what part has to be supported?

All of it, see below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Locke

I think it's obvious that the knight is going to move slower that the samurai. It is also obvious that a pike-wileding knight would definetly win a battle in a closed space, sinc ethe samuari cannot move around to find the weakest spots in the knight's armor therefore the knight would only have to jab at the samurai utnil he gets a hit. Yet, like the posted pictures of samurai show, if it was opened-space, the samurai would just "hop" or move around, avoiding the knights slashes and jabs, until he finds the weak spot and the right timing.

Your opinion is not fact, sorry. Having an opinion is fine, but dont post it as if it were fact. Above you have not shown how you arrived at your opinion and what information formed your opinion.

How is it obvious that a man in plate armour is slower than a samurai ?

How is it obvious that a man in plate armour is better in an enclosed space?

What evidence leads you to think a samuai can simply avoid the knights blows?

What evidence makes you think the samurai's weapon can penitrate plate armour?

Stuart Mackey · 04-21-2005, 00:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadkenny

A pike was a 'formation' weapon, not a good choice for a one-on-one dueling weapon. I suppose it's possible that the knight might 'catch' the samurai with the pike at range. However, the most likely result would be that the samurai would get 'inside' the pike and then the knight is dead.

'Knights' would fight dismounted, English ones at least, with their lances as pikes.
Your responce above, feel free to show why a properly trained man at arms or a knight, someone who was trained from age 6 or so to fight, would be so incompetent with a weapon ith which he would be familiar?
Moreover please show how the Knight would some how 'be dead' should he screw up so spectacularly and let the Samurai get past his guard? Did he forget his armour and sidearm perhaps?

**Officer of Engineers** · 04-21-2005, 01:00 AM

The strange thing I've found about all of this is that both sides are argueing for failed systems. Both the Knights and the Samuari got their asses trounced by the Mongols.

Anon · 04-21-2005, 12:18 PM

"What evidence makes you think the samurai's weapon can penitrate plate armour?"

It seems pretty obvious to me that a Choku-To Katana would have a pretty good chance of penetrating plate armor. My reasons are explained about a page back in the thread.

Anon · 04-21-2005, 12:19 PM

"Moreover please show how the Knight would some how 'be dead' should he screw up so spectacularly and let the Samurai get past his guard? Did he forget his armour and sidearm perhaps?"

If the Samurai gets inside the knights pike it's over. If i got inside the knights pike it would be over for that matter.

**Officer of Engineers** · 04-21-2005, 12:21 PM

M21,

Meant to ask you. The Chinese always had this inferiority complex vis-a-vi Japanese sword arts. What's your view since you've practised the Tai Chi sword.

View Poll Results: Samurai vs Medieval Knight
Samurai	20	62.50%
Medieval Knight	12	37.50%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

04-21-2005, 01:00 AM	#177 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,917 Country:	The strange thing I've found about all of this is that both sides are argueing for failed systems. Both the Knights and the Samuari got their asses trounced by the Mongols. __________________ Chimo

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04-19-2005, 23:53 PM	#168 (permalink)
PhilosopherJohn Banished Join Date: 04-18-05 Posts: 33	Due to the different transportation methods of the time, leading to knowledge not being shared, both sides would not have understood the way of war that their opponent practiced. The engagement between European knights and Samurai would likely have ended in a lengthy draw. Regards, John Higgins

04-20-2005, 00:24 AM	#169 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	Or a very quick victory for one of them.

04-20-2005, 00:30 AM	#170 (permalink)
PhilosopherJohn Banished Join Date: 04-18-05 Posts: 33	My friend is a military historian, I will have him look into the scenario. Regards, John Higgins

04-21-2005, 00:01 AM	#174 (permalink)
deadkenny Banished Join Date: 04-05-05 Posts: 428 Country:	A pike was a 'formation' weapon, not a good choice for a one-on-one dueling weapon. I suppose it's possible that the knight might 'catch' the samurai with the pike at range. However, the most likely result would be that the samurai would get 'inside' the pike and then the knight is dead.

04-21-2005, 12:18 PM	#178 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	"What evidence makes you think the samurai's weapon can penitrate plate armour?" It seems pretty obvious to me that a Choku-To Katana would have a pretty good chance of penetrating plate armor. My reasons are explained about a page back in the thread.

04-21-2005, 12:19 PM	#179 (permalink)
Anon New Member Join Date: 08-03-03 Posts: 0	"Moreover please show how the Knight would some how 'be dead' should he screw up so spectacularly and let the Samurai get past his guard? Did he forget his armour and sidearm perhaps?" If the Samurai gets inside the knights pike it's over. If i got inside the knights pike it would be over for that matter.

04-21-2005, 12:21 PM	#180 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 15,917 Country:	M21, Meant to ask you. The Chinese always had this inferiority complex vis-a-vi Japanese sword arts. What's your view since you've practised the Tai Chi sword.

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