phillip

I'd have to say the Ottomans. I don't know as much as I want to about the Ottomans, unfortunately.
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It's ok Adawolf...you haven't missed anything.

Ironduke

Obviously the Ottomans... they were one of the greatest if not the greatest empires in the world at their height. As far as the Huns go, I wouldn't call them Turkish, they may have been Turkic. Turkish refers to the Turks of Anatolia.

Pathfinder, looks like you have conspiracies galore....

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The Buck Stops Here

Big K

[quote=Ironduke;433945]Turkish refers to the Turks of Anatolia.QUOTE]


hımmm...but as a Turk i believe word "Turkish" means a wider sphere...

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When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

Khan_Han

There is no difference between the Turkic peoples and Turkish peoples. The only distinguising factor is geographic location and difference in dialect (as a result of the former and assimilation)! Both denote and refer to the same ethnicity!

troung

The poll includes the Huns (who likely might not have been Turkic) but leaves off other Turkic states... like the Timurids, Golden Horde, Khwarezmid Empire, Mamlukes and others

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To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

phillip

Big K
Even under less enlightened rulers than the present government the Turks have been extraordinarily tolerant to other religions. During the 500 years of Turkish occupation of Jerusalem no religious shrine belonging to another people was molested. All sacred spots were open to visitors of the different faiths. And it may be noted in this

Speaking of tolerance...wasn't St. Sophia, the Orthodox church in Constantinople made into a mosque. Is that what you mean by tolerance?

Big K

Orthodoxs were preferring Ottoman rule rather than Catholic rule...but this is not the point.

the point is making Saint Sophia a Mosque signifies that Christianity is also recognised by Muslims....and Christianity's sacred places can be also Muslims sacred places too...

St. Sophia or AyaSofya or Hagia Sophia is a place that 2 of Biggest religions followers can unite and pray every way that they want...it was a Mosque and a Church at the same time...

neyzen

It was about power. Fatih Sultan Mehmet declared hims self Emperor and St. Sophia was more than a church. Argumentation about St. Sophia and imperialism between Istanbul and Vatican had continued until Kanuni Sultan Süleyman. Tolerance was Fatih's firman.


I couldn't find right firman in english. Right one was like this:

"I, the Sultan Khan the Conqueror,

hereby declare the whole world that,

The Bosnian Franciscans granted with this sultanate firman are under my protection. And I command that:

No one shall disturb or give harm to these people and their churches! They shall live in peace in my state. These people who have become emigrants, shall have security and liberty. They may return to their monasteries which are located in the borders of my state.

No one from my empire notable, viziers, clerks or my maids will break their honour or give any harm to them!

No one shall insult, put in danger or attack these lives, properties, and churches of these people!

Also, what and those these people have brought from their own countries have the same rights...

By declaring this firman, I swear on my sword by the holy name of Allah who has created the ground and sky, Allah's prophet Mohammed, and 124.000 former prophets that; no one from my citizens will react or behave the opposite of this firman!"

Kansas Bear

Phillip, here's a list of books that show the truth about the Ottoman Empire.

"Byzantine: The Decline and Fall", by Norwich
"Ottoman Centuries", by Kinross
"Ordered to Die: A History of the Ottoman Army in the First World War", by Edward J. Erickson
"A Peace to End All Peace", by Fromkin
"Mehmed the Conqueror and his time", by Babinger


Also, if Big K and Neyzen are going to crow about that firman, you should know the truth.

"On the way he provided the Franciscans of the monastery of Fojnica with a patent of liberty, alledgedly after a courageous monk by the name of Angelus Zvjezdovic had called his attention to the threatening depopulation of the recently acquired region. By the terms of this document the Christians(Franciscan monks) were guaranteed the free exercise of their faith. Actually the bulk of the population, allegedly 100,000 souls, were carried off into Turkish captivity and settled partly in Istanbul and partly in the Asiatic provinces of the empire.", p223.

neyzen

Stefanos Yerasimos's book: Constantinople and Hagia Sophia Legends With All Texts (book name is translated by me, so it can be wrong)

He try to explain Mehmet's empire dream and Ottoman-Vatican relations about Hagia Sophia. This book can be interesting too.

Ironduke

This has been a common practice throughout human history among all peoples. The Turks don't really stand out in this regard.

It has been largely unchanged over the past six centuries. The major alterations have been the construction of four minarets around it, and the plastering over of Christian paintings which actually did much to preserve them. So thanks to the Turks it has stood today as it did for nine centuries before the conquest of Constantinople. It would have otherwise likely collapsed a hundred years later.

Ironduke

I'm guessing you're a Turanist. I suppose Mongolia, Siberia, and Finland are Turkish too, eh?

Big K

hehe and American Indians too...

btw, Finnish have a lot of similar words with Turkish...

Big K

did you noticed the alterations in order to support the structual integrity and to protect made by Chief Architect Sinan?

i think the paintings were one of little differentiations between Islam and Christianity...Islam forbids visualise The God in order to prevent idolaters...

Ironduke

I've only seen pictures, do you mean the large stone buttresses?