Big K

REPERCUSSIONS ABROAD REGARDING RELOCATION

Although the foreign observers, who were at the locations of relocation, wrote that the Ottoman Government�s performance was perfect and done with care in spite of war conditions, the western press preferred to mislead the events. Likewise, although Edward Natan, the consul of America in Mersin, reported that relocation has been carried out regularly, (1) the Ambassador of U.S.A. in Istanbul, Morgantau, has related the events in a completely opposite way to his country and the American press has used these events against Turks. According to the claims issued in the newspapers, Morgantau bribed the Ottoman Government and purchased some Armenians to send them to America; furthermore he has saved some English, Russian and French citizens in Istanbul. A Turkish citizen in U.S.A. reported all these lies and false information used by the press on September 14th 1915 (2).

In the frame of the reports of English consuls in Iran, claims such as killing of 1.000.000 Armenians was discussed in the English Parliament and the parliament decided to protest the Turkish Government. Furthermore, the �Blue Book� published about the Armenian events in England included news claiming that over a third of 1.800.000 Armenians claimed to exist in the Ottoman country were murdered. (3)

Against those ill � willed publications, some objective Western press members have reported that the events were falsely communicated on purpose. In an article issued in a Stockholm newspaper which uses the headline �Massacre in the Ottoman Province, Where the Armenians live�, the absurdity of such claims and the reasons for creating such false news were explained. (4)

The Ottoman Government has declared the English claims to be false on January 4th 1917 with the signature of the Undersecretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs. (5) In the denial letter, it has been expressed that the Armenian population living in the Ottoman country has never reached 1.000.000, that this amount has decreased due to the migrations that took place before the war and the claims were denied. In the same document, it was pointed out that the Germans were held responsible for the murders of Armenians in an article of a certain issue of the �Times�.

REFERENCE:

Halacoglu, Prof. Dr. Yusuf, Facts Relating to the Armenian Displacement (1915), TTK Publication, Ankara, 2001.

FOOTNOTES

1) See document 664.

2) See document 665

3) DH, EUM, 2nd Branch, File 1, document 23 (see document 668)

4) DH, EUM, 2nd Branch, File 1, document 76 (see document 669)

5) DH, EUM, 2nd Branch, File 1, document 23 (see document 668).

__________________
When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

Big K

INVESTIGATIONS CONDUCTED BY FOREIGNERS ABOUT AND THEIR OUTCOME

Just after the First World War, following the invasion of Istanbul and other regions by the entente states� armies, hundreds of political and military leaders and Ottoman intellectuals were sent to and imprisoned in Malta Island by the English, with the claim that they were �war criminals�. Comprehensive investigations have been carried out on the Ottoman archives for finding evidences of crime about the people imprisoned in Malta. As the result of these investigations, no evidence could be submitted to the court neither against the Istanbul government of that time nor about the people imprisoned in Malta in order to prove the accusations on them. The English Court has made desperate investigations in their own archives and in the archives of USA government in Washington, but again no results could be reached.

In the same way, in the message found in the USA archive reports, sent by R.C. Craigie, the English Ambassador in Washington to Lord Curzon on July 13th 1921, the following is expressed:

�I am sorry to notify you that there is nothing that can be used as evidence against the Turks imprisoned in Malta. There is nothing that will provide sufficient evidence. These reports do not seem to include even the evidences that may be helpful in supporting the information that is currently held by the Majesty�s Government about the Turks in any way.� (1)

On July 29th 1921, the Legal Consultants of the King in London decided that the accusations directed to the people in the list of the English Foreign Affairs had a semi � political characteristic and therefore the transactions to be carried out about them should be held separate from those of the Turks, who have been arrested as war criminals.

Furthermore, the expressions �Until now, no deposition has been obtained from any witness proving the accusations made about the arrested are true. In fact, it is not definite if a witness will be found or not; since in a country that is far and difficult to reach like Armenia and especially after such long time, it is even unnecessary to express how difficult it is to find a witness� (2) belongs to the Legal Consultants of His Majesty�s Government.

Consequently, the people, who were under arrest in Malta, were set free in 1922 without any accusation directed to them and without any cases held.

During that time, some documents accusing the Ottoman Government of a so � called genocide and trying to evidence this issue was published by the English press. These documents were claimed to have been found in the Ottoman State Offices in Syria by the English Invasion Forces under the direction of General Allenby. However, the interrogations carried out thereafter by the English Foreign Affairs Ministry showed that these were not documents obtained by the English army, but false documents written by the Nationalist Armenian Delegation in Paris to the allied delegations.

REFERENCES:

1.PRO. FO. July 13th 1921, 371/ 6504/ E.8519

2.Foreign Office, July 29th 1921 371/ 6504 / E.8745

Big K

THE STANCE TAKEN BY SCHOLARS TO ALLEGATIONS OF GENOCIDE

The scientists, who perceive the history within the scientific principles, have reached the original copies and documents relating to the issue since 1925 until today, have listened to living witnesses and have made individual observations at the locations of the events. These are the scientists, who knew that the Ottoman archives were open to the researchers since 1925 and who themselves reached the documents. Therefore, only those who are as knowledgeable on this issue as they can comment on or can object to their views. For this reason, the report submitted by 69 American scientists to the members of the Assembly of Representatives in relation with the issue has great importance. (1)

�To the attention of the Members of USA Assembly of Representatives

The Turkish, Ottoman researches and the American Academicians specialized in Middle East, whose signatures are put hereunder, have agreed that the language used in decree number 192 by USA Assembly of Representatives is misleading and / or wrong in many points.

�Although we fully support the concept of �National Day of Commemorating Inhuman Behaviors�, we find the following part, in this text, unacceptable:

�. 1.5 million Armenian � originated people, who have been the victims of the genocide made in Turkey between 1915 and 1923 ��

Our disagreement focuses on the use of he words �Turkey� and �genocide� and may be summarized as follows:

From the 14th century until 1922, the area, which is called Turkey, more correctly as the �Republic of Turkey� today, was a part of the Ottoman Empire, which was a multi � religion and multi � national state. Just as it is wrong to accept the Habsburg Empire to be equivalent to the Republic of Austria of today, it is also wrong to accept the Ottoman Empire to be equivalent of to the Republic of Turkey. The Ottoman Empire, which exited from the history stage in 1922 with the Turkish Revolution gave birth to the establishment of current Republic of Turkey in 1923, was a state, which kept the lands of more than 25 states, over Southeastern Europe, Northern Africa and Middle East. The Republic of Turkey was only one of them can not be held responsible for any events that happened in the Ottoman period. But the ones, who have written the decree, wanted to give the responsibility of the �genocide� between 1915 and 1923 to Turkey by using the name �Turkey�.

As for the genocide accusation, no one, who has signed this paper, have the purpose of underrating the dimensions of the pains that the Armenians have suffered. Likewise, we have the opinion that the pains of the Muslim public in the mentioned region can not be assessed in any other way. The evidences put forward until now point out that an internal war between the communities (between the Muslim and Christian groups) has become more complex with the hunger, epidemics and the massacres and pains in and around Anatolia during the first World War. In fact, during those years, a continuous war has been suffered in the region that is not so different from the tragedy going on in Lebanon in the last decade. The losses of both the Muslim and the Christian nations are big numbers. However, there are many documents and findings that the historians must reach in order to determine the reasons of the events that resulted in the death of the Eastern Anatolian public, which includes many Christians as well as Muslims.

History is created by the statesmen and the politicians and it is written by the scientists. For the operation of this process, the scientists must be given the chance to reach the written records of the former statesmen and politicians. Until now, a big part of the archives related with this issue in the Soviet Union, Syria, Bulgaria and Turkey have been kept closed to the historians. Until these archives are reached, the history of the Ottoman Empire between 1915 � 1923 in the scope of the decree of the Assembly of Representatives numbered 192 can not be completely known.

We believe that USA Congress should encourage the full opening of the history archives relating to the issue and should not make any accusations until the historical events are fully brought into light. The accusations such as the ones in the decree number 192 of the Assembly of Representatives would unavoidably result in unfair decisions about Turkey and maybe damaging the improvement, which the historians started to record in understanding these tragic events.

As shown by the comments herein above, the history of the Ottoman � Armenians is an issue that is frequently debated among the historians and many of the historians do not share the expressions in the decree number 192. In case the congress adopts this decree, it will have tried to decide which part of the historical problem is true through laws. Such a decision basing on assumptions that are historically doubtful gives harm to the honest historical research and damages the reliability of the American legislation process.

May 19 1985

Prof. Dr. Rifaat Abou � El � Haj

History, California State University


Prof. Roderic Davison

History, George Washington University

Ass. Prof. Sarah Moment Atis

Turkish Language and Literature, Wisconsin University


Distinguished Prof. Walter Denny

Art History and Near East Researches, Massachussets University

Ass. Prof. Darl Barbir

History, Siena Institution (New York)


Dr. Alan Duben

Anthropologist, Researcher, New York

Ilhan BASGÖZ

Ural � Altay Studies Division, Turkish Researches Program Director, Indiana University


Ass. Prof. Ellen Ervin

Turkish Researches, New

York University

Prof. Daniel G. Hates

Anthropology, New York City University


Prof. Caesar Farah

Islam and Middle East History, Minnesota University

Prof. Ülkü Bates

Art History, New York City University


Prf. Carter Findley

History, Ohio State University

Prof. Gustav Bayerle

Ural � Altay Studies, Indiana University


Prof. Michael Finefrock

History, Charleston Institution

Prof. Andreas G. E. Bodroglifetti

Turkish and Iran Languages, California University


Ass. Prof. William Hickman

Turkish, California Berkeley University

Ass. Prof. Kathleen Burril

Turkish Researches, Columbia University


Ass. Prof. Frederick Latimer

History, Utah University

Prof. Alan Fisher

History, Michigan University


Prof. John Hymes

History, Glenville State

Institution

Prof. Timothy Childs

Teacher, Johns Hopkins University


Dr. Health W. Lowry

Turkish Research Institution

Inc. Washington D.C.

Prof. Shafiga Daulet

Political Science, Connecticut University


Prof. Halil Inalcik

Ottoman History, American

Art & Science Academy

Member, Chicago University

Ass. Prof. Ralph Jaeckel

Turkish, California University


Ass. Prof. Ezel Kural Shaw

History, California University

Ass. Prof. Ronald Jennings

History & Asian Researches, Illinois University


Prof. John Masson Simth, JR

History, California Berkeley University

Ass. Prof. Cornell Fleischer

History, Washington University


Dr. Svat Soucek

Turkologist, New York

Prof. Peter Golden

History, Rutgers University


Dr. Philip Soddard

Middle East Institute Director, Washington D.C.

Prof. Tom Goodrich

History, Indiana University


Prof. Frank Tachau

Political Science, Chicago,

Illinois University

Dr. Andrew Could

Ottoman History, Arizona, Flagstaff


Robert Staab

Middle East Center Vice

Director, Utah University

Prof. William Griswold

History, Colorado State University


Prof. Rhoads Murphey

Middle East Languages,

Cultures and History,

Columbia University

Prof. Tibor Halasi � Kuv

Turkish Researches, Columbia Professor


Ass. Prof. June Starr

Anthropology, Suny

Stony Brook

Distinguished Prof. J.C. Hurewitz

Former Director of Middle East Institute, Columbia University


Prof. James Stewart Robinson

Turkish researches, Michigan University

Prof. Avgdorlevy

History, Brandens University


Prof. Thomas Naff

History, Middle East

Researches Institute Director, Pennsylvania University

Prof. Bernard Lew�is

Middle East History, Princeton University


Ass. Prof. John Woods

Middle East History, Chicago University

Ass. Prof. Justin Mc Carthy

History, Louisville University


Prof. Pierre Oberling

History, New York CityUniversity

Prof. Jon Mandaville

Middle East History, Portland State University


Ass. Prof. Madeline Zilfi

History, Maryland University

Prof. Michael Meeker

Anthropology, California University


Prof. Metin Tamkoc

International Law, Texas

Tech. University

Ass. Prof. James Kelly

Turkish, Utah University


Prof. Stanford Shaw

History, California University

Ass. Ass. Prof. Kerim Bey

Southeastern University


Dr. Elaine Simth

Turkish History, Retired

Foreign Affairs Officer

Prof. Metin Kunt

Ottoman History, New York


Ass. Prof. David Thomas

History, Rhode Island Institute

Ass. Prof. William Ochsenwald

History, Virginia Polytechnic Institute


Ass. Prof. Grace M. Simth

History, California Berkeley university

Ass. Prof. Robert Olson

History, Kentucky University


Ass. Prof. Margaret L.Venzke

History, Dickinson Institute (Pennsylvania)

Ass. Prof. William Peachy

Jewish and Near East Languages & Literatures, Ohio State University


E. Prof. Donald Webster

Turkish History

Ass. Prof. Donald Quataert

History, Houston University


Prof. Walter Weiker

Political Science,

Rutgers University

Prof. Howard Reed

History, Connecticut University


Prof. Warren S .Walker

English, Turkish Oral

Stories Archive Director,

Texas Tech. University

Prof. Dank Wart Rustow

Political Science, New York City University


Invitations have been made by Turkey at different times in order to discuss the correctness of the documents put forward by the Armenians and the Armenian pretensions supported by the Western European Countries and Russia. These calls have been both directed at to the Armenian scientists and to the people, who have undertaken the Armenian propaganda. However, an important part of these people did not participate the meeting without showing any reasons. The last example of this condition has been set in the 11th Turkish History Congress that gathered in 1990.

For the first time, an �Armenian Section� had been programmed in the 11th Turkish history Congress and the foreign historians who have been �Armenian struggle Supporters� have been invited to the discussions in this section, but each of them using various excuses avoided participating in these scientific discussions.

The list of the foreign scientists invited to the 11th Turkish History Congress, held in Ankara between September 5th � 9th 1990, in relation with the Armenian problem, is given hereunder:

Prof. Dr. Heath LOWRY (participated)

Garin ZEDLIAN (did not answer)

Prof. Dr. Bernard LEWIS (could not participate)

Prof. Dr. Justin McCARTHY (participated)

Prof. Dr. Stanford SHAW (participated)

Prof. Dr. Anthony BRYER (Did not answer)

Dr. Andrew MANGO (participated)

Prof. Dr. Salahi R. SONYEL (participated)

Prof. Dr. M. MARMURA (did not answer)

Prof. Dr. Allan CUNNINGHAM (did not answer)

Prof. Dr. Robert ANCIAUX (participated)

Prof. Dr. Aryeh SHMUELEVITZ (participated)

Prof. Dr. Jak YAKAR (participated)

Prof. Dr. Hans G. MAJER (could not participate)

Prof. Dr. Wolf Dietrich HUTTEROTH (did not answer)

Prof. Dr. Klaus KREISER (could not participate)

Prof. Dr. Jean � Paul ROUX (did not answer)

Prof. Dr. Paul DUMONT (participated)

Prof. Dr. Robert MANTRAN (could not participate)

Prof. Dr. Richard HOVANNISIAN (did not answer)

Dr. Gerard LIBARDIAN (did not answer)

Dr. Levon MARASHLIAN (participated)

Prof. Dr. Vahakn DADRIAN (did not answer)

Christopher WALKER (could not participate)

Anahid Ter MIMASSIAN (could not participate)

Tessa HOFFMAN (did not answer)

REFERENCE:

(1) Yildirim, Dr. Hüsamettin, Ermeni Iddialari ve Gercekler, Ankara, 2000

Big K

ARMENIAN ALLEGATIONS AND UN TREATY ON GENOCIDE

The concept �genocide� is defined with the �UN Agreement on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide Crime� dated 1948. In accordance with article 2 of the agreement;

�Genocide covers one of the following actions; with the intention of killing a national, ethnic, racial or religious group completely or partially: killing the members of the group, giving heavy damages to the physical or mental integrity of the members of the group, keeping the group in living conditions that will result in the loss complete partial physical existence of the group, taking precautions that will prevent births among the group, transfering of the children in the group to another group by force. In genocide, planned actions that have become a state policy are involved.�

When the issue is assessed in terms of the genocide agreement, it is impossible not to mention some events in the history. For committing an offence of inhumanity as genocide, that nation must have a tendency for such a crime in its history. Tendency for crime is a characteristic for the societies just as it is for human beings. When the Turkish history is examined, one can not find any trace of no genocide or assimilation.

When we look at the geography, on which it has spread, we see that the Ottomans held a part of Europe together with the Balkans up to the borders of Vienna, all Northern Africa on Mediterranean coast, all of the Middle East and the Arab Peninsula under its management for many years. This period is at least 200 � 400 years. Which nation in this geography can be said to be extinct? In the period, during which religious rules were executed in Anatolia, beliefs such as the oldest Christianity sect Syriacism and Yezidi belief worshipping flame and peacock were able to survive lived and in 1800s, although violated of the religious laws, churches have been opened in Anatolia. Even while one of the two brothers was Sokullu Mehmet Pasha, the Ottoman Grand Vizier, the other was assigned as Patriarch to the Makarje Serbian Church and has resurrected the Serbian nation. In the same period, when we look a other regions of the world, we see the genocides of the sects struggle period in Europe, the communities, whose languages were changed in the far east (Indians � Pestun), Africa, and Southern America whose language and religion have been completely changed.

Nazis have killed millions of people during the 2nd World War. Between 1939 � 1945, 5-6 million Jews, more than 3 million Soviet war prisoners, more than one million Polish and more than one million Yugoslavians, approximately 200.000 gypsies and 70.000 disabled were killed. This is the genocide.

In addition to these, although the United Nations has a preventive agreement, there have been many genocide events in the modern era. For example, in accordance with the confessions of 2 retired French generals published in Le Monde, the French have killed minimum one million Algerians between 1954 � 1962, the Indonesian army has killed one million communists and their families between 1965 � 1966, the Red Kmers in Cambodia killed 1.7 million Cambodians between 1975 � 1979, in 1994 500.000 Tutsies have been killed by the Hutus in Ruanda, and finally thousands of Muslims have been subject to the Serbian severity in Bosnia � Herzegovina after 1991.

The genocide crime has been committed in these events in its real meaning. Contrary to the Armenian pretensions, the implementation performed in Eastern Anatolia in 1915 is the migration from one place to another region within Ottoman land and it has no relation with the genocide. Turkish management is accustomed to living with the nations of different cultures and races in the regions it dominated. There is �justice� in the Turkish tradition, there is �keeping the cultures alive�; but there is no �massacre� or �genocide�. This matter is clearly indicated in the book of Justin McCarthy named �Death and Exile�. In this book, the story of the Balkans and the Caucasian people taking refuge in the Ottoman management to escape death are related.

One should the ones accusing the Ottoman management with genocide: Where did the Jews and the Muslims escape from Spain and Portugal in 1469 where did Tökeli Imre and his men escape from Hungary in 1680, where did Rakoczi Ferench and his men go in 1711, where did Layos Kosuth and a Hun group of 2000 people go in 1849, where did Prince Chartorski go with his 135000 soldiers in 1841 and 1856, where did the Russian commander Vrangel and even Trouchki escape in order to take refuge from death?

The history gives the answer all these questions as the �Ottoman�. Don�t the ones announcing the relocation implementation in 1915 as the so called �Armenian genocide� know that Poland and Germany origin Jews found shelter in Turkey since 1930s? While only 20 � 25 years had passed over the so � called Armenian genocide, why did the ones looking for a country to adopt chose Turkey as their rescuer? The answers to these questions are hidden in the just, humane, tolerant, uniting character of the Turkish State tradition, which has always been respectful towards traditions and beliefs.

Furthermore, the genocides and assimilations made in the Balkans 550 years after the Ottoman Empire Fatih, who gave the people living on the land he ruled, the chance of preserving their values alive and transferring them to the new generations, must be remembered. The Balkan nations, whose languages, religions, churches, schools were taken under guarantee with this order, have torn the Bosnians, Albania � rooted Muslims, Macedonians and Bulgaria Turks out of their own land in the verge of the 21st century. Today, the ones accusing Turkey of genocide have ignored the massacres that continued for moths and tapped their ears to the screams of the raped women of any age. Recently, not only the Balkan nations found shelter in Turkey; but also the Iraqis running away from Saddam Hüseyin, the Iraqi state president, who tried to commit genocide using the �mustard gas� he provided from the western chemical weapon producers, found shelter in Turkey. The Turkish people has always shared their bread at any time in history in spite of their limited opportunities and have opened their arms to the oppressed nations. The Turkish people, the Ottoman and the Republic of Turkey have a very clean register that can be an example for other nations and states.

Big K

CONCLUSION

Many things have been said and written about relocation since the date of its application. The Armenians have managed to deceive the world public opinion for a long period by hiding behind the false documents. The Armenian massacre stories, which began with 300.000s and came to 3.000.000s have no basis. Likewise during the invasion of Istanbul, both the English and the French have sufficiently investigated the Ottoman archive and since they have not been able to submit any documents in relation with the Armenian genocide, they must not have found any such document.

On the other hand, they should have photographs in their archives taken by the journalists who came to Anatolia at that time to observe the relocation implementation. If a genocide had been committed with the order of the state, these photographs would have been presented to the world public opinion a long time ago. Furthermore, if the party claiming the reality of a genocide had concrete documents, would the for establishing a �commission of jurists� be left without a response? Why did not this official suggestion of the Ottoman State left unanswered? Was the reason the fear that the roles of some western countries would become apparent in the organization and agitation of the Armenian bands or the fear that sources, from which the Armenians obtained their guns to kill thousands of innocent civil people, be disclosed?

When the word genocide is mentioned the Nazi mass murder that resulted in the loss of millions of Jews and other ethnical groups, comes to mind. When the word genocide is heard, the murder at least a million Algerians by the French between 1954 � 1962 is remembered. When the word genocide is heard, the murdering of 1 million communists and their families by the Indonesian army between 1965 � 1966 is remembered. When the word genocide is mentioned, the massacre of almost 2 millions of Cambodians by the Red Kmers in Cambodia between 1975-1979 is remembered. When the word genocide is mentioned, the murdering of 500.000 Tutsies by the Hutus in Ruanda in 1994 is comes to mind. And finally when the word genocide is heard, the severe massacre of thousands of Muslims in Bosnia � Herzegovina and Kosova after 1991 by the Serbians is remembered. The genocide crime has been committed during these events in its real meaning.

If the Ottoman State had any intention of subjecting the Armenians to �genocide�, wouldn�t it commit it where the Armenians lived? What was the need for such expense made during the relocation and so many commercial and military precautions that needed to be taken?

The purpose of the relocation which the world�s most successful resettlement program has never been eliminating Armenians but was born out of a compulsory need of providing state security.

REFERENCE:

Hallacoglu, Prof.Dr. Yusuf, Facts Relating to the Armenian Displacement (1915); TTK Publication, Ankara 2001.

Big K

i'll continue later...

Parihaka

You want photographs?














I could go on all day...........

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Big K

yes it seems so...the fact is Ottoman Empire could not managed to protect, feed etc.. the Armenians which were our Millet-i Sadıka = "Loyal Nation"

the relocation was getting far over the capabilities of Ottoman Empire in these days....this is true...

These days there was Hamidiye Legions in this area...those regiments were a conclusion of lack of soldiers and were formed by Regional Kurdic or Arabic Tribes...normally Kurdish or Arabic people didnt have any military service obligation...they were wearing Ottoman Uniforms, but were also totally like bandits, there was no Ottoman Officers, totally a lack of central authority...imagine their attacks to the Armenian convoys...

Ottoman Commanders who was comissioned to protect these convoys did their best but they were totally outnumbered...

After the war Ottoman exercised many juriscidions and many people were swong (to swing??)

theres many sources about these cituations but i have to leave now, back to work...i'll show many other sources...

theres 2 thing to nota bene:

1- why Ottomans needed a relocation

2- all Ottoman Archives are open to everyone, Turkish Govt. called an international research in the Ottoman Archives,

but

Armenian Govt. did never respond to that call..

why???

Big K

i can show you some other photos of mass graves of murdered Turkish villagers...

these photos are not evidences i do not see any Turkish soldiers killing people in these photos...(hangings can be anywhere for any reasons)

on the other hand i can tell you some other stories about these heads on the piles, raped, her abdominal region splitted and her baby taken from her stomach with Armenian bayonets...

theres already a corrupted telegraph of Talat Pasha...

these are not evidences of a genocide...

glyn

__________________
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

Parihaka

OHHHhhh, you want soldiers...

Like these ones?

This doesn't look like a hanging to me...






This I suppose is a hanging..




Could you translate this for me by the way?

Parihaka

You see, one of the things I do in my spare time is collate imagery for various organisations interested in 'crimes against humanity', not for punitive reasons generally, but as a permanent record.
A picture paints a thousand words as they say, and as I said, I can do this all day.

deadkenny

"Big K", perhaps you believe that you can 'bury' the past via volume of text. You're wrong. If your intent was truly to provide information, you could have provided links rather than cut and pasting. Of course, that would then provide information on your 'sources'.

Just a couple points regarding the well established genocide. You questioned why would the Turks have 'turned on' the Armenians 'suddenly', after living with them 'peacefully' for so many years. Well, the fact is that a war was going on at the time, and as we've already discussed the Turks were getting their butts kicked by the Russians on the Caucasus front (in fighting, not just the weather, I hope we can agree now). They were afraid that the Russians would use the presence of the Armenians as a reason to annex a large chunk of territory to the Russian Empire, where there was already a population of Armenians. Thus, the Turks decided that the Armenians had to go so as to remove any reason for the victorious Russians to take the territory in question.

Relocation? The Nazi's said exactly the same thing about the Jews. The Nazi's claim that the Jews weren't intentionally exterminated, they were simply being 'relocated' to the east. In fact, to some extent, the Nazi genocides were modelled on the Turks extermination of the Armenians. At the time the Nazi's were deciding the fate of the Jews, Hitler was quoted as referring to the Armenian genocide.

It is very illuminating that you try to justify the 'relocation' / extermination of the Armenians by the Turks by referring to alleged crimes committed by Armenians. So you believe that it is justified to punish an entire population en masse for the crimes of members of that population? Ignoring the fact that anything done by Armenians was likely retaliation for what was being done to their people, you argue that these alleged 'crimes' justified subjecting the entire population to a 'death march' and then finally shooting or lynching the few survivors when the soldiers decided that the 'relocation' areas were too far to bother going all the way to?

The one interesting point out of all the 'garbage' that you've cut and pasted is the number of non-Turkish 'academics' that study Turkish / Ottoman history and have apparently joined in the denial. Unlike Germany, the modern Turkish government continues to deny the truth about the Armenian genocide. These so called 'scholars' know very well that their continued access to sources inside Turkey depend on denying, or at least remaining silent, regarding the extermination of the Armenians.

Big K

Kenny,

Introduction to Armenian Issue - FORSNET

you can find all in this link

Officer of Engineers

By Turkey's own accounts, 600,000 people died through at least Turkish inaction if not policy. Are you saying Ankara holds no responsibility over the deaths of so many of its own people?

__________________
Chimo