Thread: Greatest Western empire in history

Originally Posted by Maximus

First of all, both of these empires existed in very different time periods. Eastern Roman Empire(Byzantium) begins where Western Roman Empire(Rome) ends.

THAT'S MY POINT!

This eastern partition of the Roman Empire outlived its western counterpart by a thousand years, defending Europe against invasions from the east by Persians, Arabs, and Turks. The Byzantines persevered because Constantinople was well defended by walls and the city could be supplied by sea.

The Byzantine Government exsisted for 1000 years, that's all. There was no such thing as the Byzantine Empire prior to the Civil War. Both Rome and Byzantine lasted for the same ammount of time (over 1000 years). Since the longevity is the same, you must look at other factors to compare their military greatness.

For example...
1.)How much land did they conquer?
2.)What people's did they conquer?
3.)How many people's did they conquer?

All three of these the Roman Empire(Republic and Empire) wins, exspecially in the first.

At their zenith in the sixth century, the Byzantines covered much of the territories of the original Roman Empire, lacking only the Iberian Peninsula (modern Spain and Portugal), Gaul (modern France), and Britain. The Byzantines also held Syria, Egypt, and Palestine.

This territory is smaller then the Roman Empire! If you want to use shear ammount of conquests as a standard then Rome must be judged greater!

The Byzantine economy was the richest in Europe for many centuries because Constantinople was ideally sited on trade routes between Asia, Europe, the Black Sea, and the Aegean Sea. It was an important destination point for the Silk Road from China. The nomisma, the principal Byzantine gold coin, was the standard for money throughout the Mediterranean for 800 years. Constantinople's strategic position eventually attracted the envy and animosity of the Italian city-states.

Why does this make it greater then Rome?

A key strength of the Byzantine Empire was its generally superior army that drew on the best elements of the Roman, Greek, Gothic, and Middle Eastern experience in war. The core of the army was a shock force of heavy cavalry supported by both light infantry (archers) and heavy infantry (armored swordsmen). The army was organized into units and drilled in tactics and maneuvers. Officers received an education in military history and theory. Although outnumbered usually by masses of untrained warriors, it prevailed thanks to intelligent tactics and good discipline. The army was backed by a network of spies and secret agents that provided information about enemy plans and could be used to bribe or otherwise deflect aggressors.

Good for them, but this says nothing of their greatness.

The Byzantine navy kept the sea-lanes open for trade and kept supply lines free so the city could not be starved into submission when besieged. In the eighth century, a land and sea attack by Arabs was defeated largely by a secret weapon, Greek fire. This chemical weapon, its composition now unknown, was a sort of liquid napalm that could be sprayed from a hose. The Arab navy was devastated at sea by Greek fire.

In May 1453, Turkish sultan Mehmet II captured a weakly defended Constantinople with the aid of heavy cannon. The fall of the city brought the Byzantine Empire to an end.

Look above.

It is just that Byzantium Empire dawned when Roman Empire ended.

No ****! This fact you keep ignoring when comparing Rome and the Byzantine Empire. When you look at a nations greatness you must look at several things.

1.) It's Form of Government relitive to those in the same time period.
2.) It's Economy relitive to those in the same time period.
3.) It's military relitive to everyone else in that time period.
4.) It's Philosophical and Scientific Achievments relitive to thoose of the same time period.

When using this measure the Romans win hands down when compared with the Byzantines. There is no other rational means of determining the "greatness" of an ancient civilization. Just because the Byzantine Army of the 8th Century could defeat the Roman Army of the 1st Century does not mean anything. As it drops the contexts of the two armies.