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Reply With QuoteThe question at hand is "toughest soldiers" - not the best military traditions/most succesfull military/best leadership etcOriginally Posted by BD1
Apache Indian and Nguyen of the north. No quarter asked nor given with these studs, IMV.
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Jeff Lebowski
The question at hand is "toughest soldiers" - not the best military traditions/most succesfull military/best leadership etc
Steppe nomads(already mentioned),the Boers,everyone on the Eastern Front(most likely the harshest fighting in history).
Those who know don't speak
If people knew their history the battle would be over second place with the Spartans firmly in number 1. The fight for survival began at birth when he had to be judged fit to be a Spartan, if he wasn't he was left out to die. At age 7 he was ripped away from his mother and military training began. As he was leaving his mother told him to come back with his shield or on it. By age 23 he had to have killed a helot, passed all of his training, survived by scrounging and stealing ect and while doing all of this he had to build a reputation for himself. Because merely passing was not enough, a mess still had to accept him into their ranks. If he was not in a mess by age 23 he was demoted and turned into a Helot and handed over to them for their tender revenge.
That pressure cooker made them the toughest and possibly the most skilled individuals of all time. The only others to even come close would be the early Jannisseries.
As far as ancient soldiers, hands down the Spartans.
Modern soldiers, thats a tough one. Just about every force has its share of badasses, but I would have to throw my vote simply by virtue of the training, to the Russian SF. Matter fof fact, when the Warsaw pact still existed, all those countries had some pretty impressive SFs.
Modern era I'll give the nod to the WWI tommy's and thier kin. Every other army that fought in 1914 broke in the end, but not the brits and they often had the worst possible parts of the line in terms of exposure to the elements and enemy fire. They never broke despite serious failings in leadership, leave policies, trench design and doctrine.
The combatants in Stalingrad and Leningrad at least had shelter and didn't face gas and super rats nor risk drowning in mud. The troops of the British Empire and its dominions never broke. In terms of sheer grit they will take number 1 for me.
I"m thinking Mongols for toughest ancient world soldiers. My choice for modern day soldiers would be the Gurkhas based on their reputation since haven't actually seen them. The Tercio de Extranajeros (Spanish Foreign Legion) which I have seen.
Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
(Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)
Froze to death on some joint operations with Crimean Tatars who rode out fine.ours..
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
For modern soldiers I will pick the Japanese and the Russians in that order. The Japanese would canibalized the dead if isolated and without food to fight on. Their aptitude for stealth and their uncanny ability to infiltrate is legendary. One veteran told me that in three years of war, he had seen only one Japanese soldier to willingly go into capture.
All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.
My Vote Goes to Russians that survived Internment in WW2. Or the British, Kiwi's, Americans, Candians, Indians Chinese & Australians + unmentioned that survived the Death marches & Isolation. In more modern times, to the Cambodians in Death camps.
It's not just being bought up to kill. It's the ability to survive the huge mental & physical torments with the knowledge of what it is like to live free, have a family, etc. Then there are the ones that had the above and returned to fight.
Then there are the ones that had all the above, returned to fight, reconciled, forgave a brutal experience, returned home and continue to march in parades until they die. Thats tough...
Edit: unlike a modern military unit, in many circumstances, the men AND women that survived often did not have the benefit of conditioning that many elite units do - their bodies were able to take some of the worst treatment possible that an unconditioned body & mind could possibly fathom. Conditioning brings skill, skill can be attributed to toughness. IMO these people often did not have half of that.
Last edited by Chunder; 21 Dec 09, at 13:29.
The soldier of any modern army is tough enough and comparable with their conterparts in other armies - it is their officers who make them physchologically weak or strong.
There are no good or bad troops, there are only good and bad officers.
Cheers!...on the rocks!!
Then, we get tankies.
Chimo
Aww c,mon Col , ok then ,
We promise (new years res),
1 Not to destroy your newly made roads n bridges ,
2 We promise not to crush your shi,,, er, newly built latrines ,
3 We promise not to look good in all the war movies , and in actual theatre,
4 We promise to leave lots n lots of rubbish to be cleared after WE have routed the enemy
5 We promise to let you go 1st in mine clearance ops ,
And we promise not to take any notice of said Officer waving his hands in anger after above said ops may get carried out , inadvertantly of course ,
But not NUMBER 5 .
Thats all yours ,, Sir honey bunch
TANKIE. ECO WARRIOR , SAVE THE TREES
I think the Royal Marines and Parachute Regiment in the Falklands war are worth a mention. After disembarking from ships at San Carlos on East Falkland they marched across the islands covering 56 miles in 3 days carrying 80 pounds (36 kg) a man. They had no helicopter support and could not be resupplied during the campaign as all helicopters went down with the Atlantic Conveyor which was hit by 2 Exocet missiles.
They were under under constant enemy fire from the air, without cover across difficult terrain, drinking water or means of subsistence. When they reached Stanley, cold, wet and exhausted, they went into immediate action against an enemy well prepared and supported by field artillery.
We lost 255 men in 100 days in the Falklands against 108 in Afghanistan during 2009.
A truly remarkable feat and worthy of being considered in any discussion on who were the toughest soldiers in history.
I've already said this someplace else, possibly even this forum, but: Alexander's Macedonian Infantry; the detachments he took with him to conquer the "world." By the time he got to India these guys averaged in their 60s, were constantly outnumbered, frequently cut off from their primitive, mostly maritime supply lines, had walked over or through every military force sent against them with no end in sight, & suffered surprisingly few casualties. I guess word leaked out ahead of them.
I doubt if any group of soldiers has ever exhibited this degree of toughness, which was the required quality, right? Mental & physical. Not elan, panache, esprit de corps our some other quality, although they certainly had those qualities, too. The Mongols had numbers, horses & extremely powerful reflex/deflex compound bows. The Romans had training, organization, built-in castramentation & NUMBERS. The Macedonians had only the phalanx, which they couldn't really use all the time because of the terrain, and the Sarissa!
Prof
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