quoting a family acquaintance ( battles against Soviets in 1943-44 in Izjum, Korsun -Cherkasy pocket, Battle of Narva) - the russians were definetely brave and resourceful, but their real strength lay in their numbers.Originally Posted by Bluesman
Individual resistance to hardship does not equal military prowess.
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
The thread was not the most competentquoting a family acquaintance ( battles against Soviets in 1943-44 in Izjum, Korsun -Cherkasy pocket, Battle of Narva) - the russians were definetely brave and resourceful, but their real strength lay in their numbers.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
Read the original post. We're talking about the Man in the Ranks' ability to 'take it'. And I think for all their faults as fighting men, the Russian soldier has just about proved down through the centuries that he's almost immune to hardship and outright abuse. He may not be unbeatable, but he's no quitter.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
ours..
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.
if you mean threat - then OK, i get it.The thread was not the most competent
if you mean thread as you wrote it i take it as an example of your humor which i´ve learned to love (from safe distance) and i´m taking some time out to get it.
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Gurkha,s
TANKIE. ECO WARRIOR , SAVE THE TREES
i get it. And i thank you for your patience. And i still think that all the capabilities omitted to them are nothing outlandish and never-seen-before . As can be seen in other examples in this thread, the japanese soldiers for example
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.
How would the Russians perform away from Russia, I wonder? Throw them in the desert conditions of North Africa, in the rain forests of Burma/Malaysia. Then would they be equally 'tough'?
I bet the Uighurs/Kipchaks/Jurhcens/Khitans/Karluks etc from which many of the ignominious lower Russian 'Tartar ranks' are drawn would be routed if you put them in hot humid jungle conditions away from the cold.
Last edited by HillTribe; 19 Dec 09, at 20:43.
Totalitarianism-Feudalism in new garbs
Died in droves in Gilan as stated above. This was before Russia invented Cubans of course.in the rain forests of Burma/Malaysia. Then would they be equally 'tough'?
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
You mean before the Cubans became the new Central Asians for the Russians?
Totalitarianism-Feudalism in new garbs
Yeah, them Japanaese...legendary no-quitters. When I saw 'em mentioned earlier in he thread, I thought that was a good pick, too.i get it. And i thank you for your patience. And i still think that all the capabilities omitted to them are nothing outlandish and never-seen-before . As can be seen in other examples in this thread, the japanese soldiers for example
But seriously, you can't give some props to RUSSIANS as tough soldiers? Man, I sure can.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
from my family tree and friends/acquintances there were people who have fought with them and against them. And people who have served in Sov.Army.
Tough rus. are, no question. But not many think they were equal to their opponents (even a guy who served in 8th. Est.Rifle Corps in Red Army thought they were outclassed by germans).
If i only was so smart yesterday as my wife is today
Story published in a Chinese newspaper (my recollections are a bit hazy about the exact circumstances, makeup and dispositions of the forces, etc, but roughly it goes as follows):
During China's border conflict with Vietnam, one PLA artillery unit suspected that Vietnamese soldiers were infiltrating through the jungle near their perimeter, but did not know the exact position of the enemy forces. As this was at night they decided to recon by fire using incendiary shells, the idea being that the cries of the enemy wounded or movement of the enemy would give away their position.
After saturating suspected areas with artillery fire, they heard and saw nothing, and thus assumed that it was a false alarm.
Assessing the area the next day, the PLA was shocked to find a large number of enemy dead (don't remember exactly how many), burned beyond recognition. Apparently the Vietnamese soldiers stayed completely still and silent as they burned, in order not to give away the position of their comrades.
Needless to say the PLA unit gained a whole new level of respect for their enemy.
Last edited by citanon; 19 Dec 09, at 22:03.
In modern warfare the 3 big contenders have already been mentioned here.
*Russians - a history of being incredibly tough, though I'm not sure if Afghanistan & Chechenya have enhanced that reputation.
*Nth Vietnamese - these guys were unbelievable. In 1944-45 over 10% of the population died in a famine. From this they backed up to fight the the French, Americans, Sth Vietnamese, Chinese & Khmer Rouge. In all but one of these they were outnumberred or outgunned, often vastly so (against the ARVN in 1975 they had an edge, but not always a big one). Tough as they come.
*Japanese in WW2 - not just the 'fight to the last man' stuff by starving troops with no hope of relief or the insane charges against enemy positions, but some of the feats of movement. Look at some of the advances like those into India, in Papua New Guinea or even in Malaya. Some of those marches through impossible terrain with virtually no supplies stagger the mind.
Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C
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