Dont know if any of you have read these fairly new books by an Ex Sub Commander by the name of Gavin Menzies.
The first '1421' prety much clarified for me where or how the world maps that pre-date Columbus's trip state side in 1492 came about.
Fascinating reads. (I'm in the middle of 1434)
You can google the site, but youv'e gotta read the book.(s)
Really.
If this is about the China discovering America thing, I read up on this a while ago and remember that the theory was a real stretch and a half which was debunked. Unfortunately can't remember the exact site, but here is another quick google site.
Debunking Gavin Menzies
edit: don't know why I missed this one http://www.1421exposed.com/
Last edited by diablo49; 05 Jul 09, at 16:43.
Pretty sad reply.
Read the book, don't just jump on the defensive band-wagon. What's your opinion on the maps?
Open your eyes. Scared?
Ok - Here's the site; http://www.1421.tv/
Like I said - Read the book before you attempt to condem. What's your opinion on the maps?
Last edited by DragoonGuard; 05 Jul 09, at 16:50.
You 'read up on this' Where? the two bollocks URL's you just pasted?Originally Posted by diablo49
LMAO!
you mean maps like this one?
Gavin Menzies Maps | Chinese Treasure Fleets | Ancient Chinese maps | Chinese shipwreck junk | Chinese exploration maps | Caribbean shipwreck | Zheng He maps
Which is not, like the side seems to claim from 1418 but from 1763. Menzies claims that it is based upon a map from 1418, without offering proof. (And how could a map from 1418 show the new world in such detail if it was suppossed to be discovered 1421??).
Then there is the Pizzigano map..a map from Italy that he claims proves that China discovered America. I don't even know how to refute that, since I can't find any logic, nevermind how twisted in this statement. Further the map does not shot the Americas, but only several Islands. Menzies claims these are Caribbean islands, despite them not being in the right location for this. Also you can find one Pizzigano map the Island of Antillia. In case you have never heard of this Island..that is because it does not exist except in legends.
In Summary, this guy uses a map from Italy, that shows fictional Islands, to proof that China discovered America...
uh I might be wrong
Clearly you are quoting from the web. - Tarek, go away and buy/read the book then come back.
Antillia is Guadalupe. As I said before you are not in a position to make derogatory comments until you. You have read the material in question.
Is that not sound logic to base an opinion on?
You asked for opinions and told me to look at the map. I did both and gave ARGUMENTS why I believe the claim is bogus. You did nothing of the sort and have failed to address any point raised.
If you don't to hear the opinion of others don't ask for them
uh I might be wrong
ah and Guadalupe Island? The Island on the map is not even near that place..
uh I might be wrong
What? do you think they had GPS?....... use your head. (Menzies himself was a Navigation officer on one of H.M. Submarines for 4 years before he got his own Command - He explains the Navigational anomalies on the maps)
You are still gibbering here, with out having read the material in question.
This is not about a single map, - Go to the web site - Take what material is actually being spoken about in the book - Then do your own research if needs be.
Sorry -But I hold the work research objective opinion of an Ex submarine Commander who knows the real world, in far higher regard than anybody who gleans info from the net, and takes it as Gospel.
Your signature phrase is very apt BTW
Last edited by DragoonGuard; 05 Jul 09, at 17:59.
A couple of things for sure.
Zheng He never saw Aztec or Mayan gold and the 1st Nations never smelled a Chinese germ.
Chimo
Thats an hoax, debunked a long time ago.
Simon Jenkins: Of course the Chinese didn't discover America. | World news | The Guardian
Who wrote your signature?
None of you have actually read the books in question, or the references contained therein.
Jesus, even OoE.
This is the last post from me on this, - READ THE BOOKS!
Stop posting internet crap as a response.
Oh' aye - That's passed ma 100th post BTW.
Last edited by DragoonGuard; 05 Jul 09, at 21:08.
I'd rather read the reviews by accredited historians grounded in the historical method with free access to the best databases and with other peer accepted historians on in their cellphone phonebook.
Those people, the professionals with access to the best resources say the guy is a quack. His maps have been revealed as forgeries and his claims are for the most part unsupported by anything but other unsupported work.
Myself.
No we haven't.None of you have actually read the books in question, or the references contained therein.
Yeah, you may feel a bit lonely.Jesus, even OoE.
I don't read crackpot historians and your thread is about a pathetic hoax.This is the last post from me on this, - READ THE BOOKS!
Don't start crappy threads then.Stop posting internet crap as a response.
What I am trying to tell you is that Zheng Hi's contact with the new world was absolutely minimal and certainly would not have explored the interior of the Americas which is the only way the map could have been made, ie having explored it in person.
He never brought home Aztec or Mayan gold but he did bring home African gold. And if he did visit the interior, he would have spread plague much like the Spaniards did centuries later.
Most certainly, his ships were full of rats, themselves were germ carriers. So, even if Zheng He did not visit the interior, his rats would have done the deed all the same.
Contact between the Old World and the New World was a disaster for the people of the New World. The best example that Zheng He did not visit the new world is that no one blames him for the die off when the Spaniards came.
Chimo
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