Thread: 1421 & 1434 Columbus discovered America?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

What I am trying to tell you is that Zheng Hi's contact with the new world was absolutely minimal and certainly would not have explored the interior of the Americas which is the only way the map could have been made, ie having explored it in person.

He never brought home Aztec or Mayan gold but he did bring home African gold. And if he did visit the interior, he would have spread plague much like the Spaniards did centuries later.

Most certainly, his ships were full of rats, themselves were germ carriers. So, even if Zheng He did not visit the interior, his rats would have done the deed all the same.

Contact between the Old World and the New World was a disaster for the people of the New World. The best example that Zheng He did not visit the new world is that no one blames him for the die off when the Spaniards came.

'most certainly his ships were full of rats' ?

Their junks were full of plants/herbs/dogs (food)/ Rats? doubt it, they were that good at kiting out a vessel for long voyages. They grew their own herbs aboard ship.
Thats why their men never suffered from the likes of scurvy, or any other type of vitamin deficiency, - These people were hundreds of years ahead of anybody else on the planet at this time.

These guys did not go deep in to where they landed, - They were too busy mapping the globe. Their objective was to make contact with every/any/all kindoms on the planet, and oblige them to trade with China.

right now there is only one person that defends a certain books against all common sense, and said person is not zraver..

There have been several rational arguments against the claim that China discovered America, you failed to disprove a single one of them and instead attack those who dare to disagree...so tell me..why did you open this thread? Clearly not to discuss the book, since you are apparrantly unable to do so in any serious manner..

edit: when they did not go too deep..how did they get details from the INTERIOR?

And how could they draw a map in the year 1418 that included a continent that they, as you claim, discovered 1421???

Originally Posted by DragoonGuard

Their junks were full of plants/herbs/dogs (food)/ Rats? doubt it,

It was not intentional. Rats have a way of finding holes to hide in on ships.

Originally Posted by DragoonGuard

These guys did not go deep in to where they landed, - They were too busy mapping the globe. Their objective was to make contact with every/any/all kindoms on the planet, and oblige them to trade with China.

Zheng Hi fought wars. And if there is one thing that he was obliged to bring home was silver and gold - to pay for the fleet.

Originally Posted by DragoonGuard

The best data bases contain everything that Menzies has put together.

If it did he would not be using forgeries.

Its just that the Academics (as usual) will never diverge from historical dogma.

Really, you don't know much about the revisionist school. Not the type of revision of your guy, but the school that is seeking out and recording the history of the other side which produces a more complete view than the Euro-centric versions of the past.

You must be one of these people who think the bible is factual in some way.

You are, aren't you.

In fact much of the bible has been proven as a factual retelling of the actual times involved dealing with multiple ancient empires, their breadth and manner and other things of historical significance. As history the bible is very accurate in some areas.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

What I am trying to tell you is that Zheng Hi's contact with the new world was absolutely minimal and certainly would not have explored the interior of the Americas which is the only way the map could have been made, ie having explored it in person.

He never brought home Aztec or Mayan gold but he did bring home African gold. And if he did visit the interior, he would have spread plague much like the Spaniards did centuries later.

Most certainly, his ships were full of rats, themselves were germ carriers. So, even if Zheng He did not visit the interior, his rats would have done the deed all the same.

Contact between the Old World and the New World was a disaster for the people of the New World. The best example that Zheng He did not visit the new world is that no one blames him for the die off when the Spaniards came.

Ah science. Game, set, match.

Gavin Menzies is a hack and a known forger of evidences and documents. His last great archeological discovery was Chinese stone anchors he collected in the sea beds near California which he claims to have originated from Ming China. Of course, a more historically minded scholar would point out that in the nineteenth century California was teeming with Chinese emigrants, many of them subsequently took to the seas. Coincidentally, the anchors he found was of the nineteenth-century style. He also discovered a Chinese map that he used to buttress his thesis, which turned out to be something drawn by the Jesuits during Qing Dynasty. Ouch!

No one has successfully found any document or inscription in China that celebrates the discovery of a new continent. What the Confucian literati destroyed during the purge of the eunuchs were state archives and plenty of histories from other sources remain to refute Menzie's claims. Zheng He left in his ancestral shrine a stone monument commemorating his adventures at sea, with a long inscription of what his deeds and what he had seen, yet none of the exotic lands described in the inscription matched America.

Menzies's experience with submarines bears no relevance to his knowledge of seafaring in wooden ships by wind. An obvious problem with his theory is that Chinese junks sail by monsoon, their exclusive use of the square sail limiting them to sail only with not against the wind. There is no monsoon wind powerful enough to move ships in the western hemisphere. To reach America without contradicting the timetable of Zheng He's expedition, the junk fleet must complete a super humanly speedy journey westwards around the contours of Africa under gales lethal to ships without keels. If Zheng He pushed through, his fleet would have suffered crippling losses and there would be both documentary evidence and shipwrecks. Menzies had failed to found any.

And by the way... I read the book. And it took me two years to forget that rubbish. It's one of the only books I have voluntarily thrown away.

Why does everybody want to trash Menzies?

Its not like China is going to lay claim to anywhere is it?

Might be a crap thread, but its got entertainment value........Sorry for bringing back the memory of it BTW.