Thread: 300

Originally Posted by Low-tech

but lets not kid ourselves, theres little to no grey area between good and evil, every character is way too archetypical, character development is predictible<kinda melodramatic and cheesy at times> and we never really doubt most of the characters intentions. the plot, the climax is spoon-fed the same way star wars is.

its too simple of a formula......i like grey area, i like knowing that experiences change the characters dramatically to where you may not consider them evil or good anymore, that characters have vulnerabilities that are deeper than the obvious fear of death or failure, they have self-doubt, they make mistakes, thier judgement is in error, they cant cope or deal with situations and they do very real, human things.

im not saying his books are totally deviod of these things, its just there isnt enough emotional depth that satisfies me, i still like the LOTR books but, in terms of the nuts and bolts literature its not the end all be all.

So you knew that Frodo would fail and claim the Ring and that Gollum would prevail and get it back? That's funny because even the old Prof. himself wasn't 100% how that would work out while he was writing it.

But seriously, I disagree completely with most of your points re characters. First, and my own personal distaste for angsty "grey" characters aside, there is no "grey" regarding Good and Evil - acts are either one or the other. JRRT's characters are not all one way or the other although some certainly are. Boromir fails, Faramir prevails, but both are tested and know it. Likewise Galadriel and Gandalf both pass by refusing the Ring but they KNOW that if they claim it they will use it to do great Evil no matter that their intentions would be Good.

Regarding character growth, Gimli and Legolas overcome their ancient animosities and grow to be fast friends. Gandalf passes and is "reborn" into a starker, greater version of himself. Saruman falls, mainly by his own design. Denethor falls as well, another casualty of "mere" human frailty and clouded good sense. Grima is given a chance at his own redemption but fails that in the end. The Hobbits have grown immensely as we see at the end of their story and the Scouring of the Shire.

I could go on.

Of course, if you DO like pussyboy indecisive self-doubters in your fiction then I agree that LOTR is not for you.

-dale

@Low tech

Gandalf was the Grey Pilgrim.

while Saruman was the White , and the Saroun that held the Black Hand was black . I would say Saruman changed alliegence to the Lidless Eye, while Gandalf ascended deeper into purity when he became White.

I consdier Eoywen's character to be Grey. In fact so is Borormir and many others.

So did Leonidas lead 300 Spartans to the battle or did he have 299 with him? If he had 300, then with him would make 301. If he had only 300 including himself, then he had 299 with him. Who leads 299 men to a fight? Maybe it's really 301 Spartans?

Originally Posted by xerxes

I tend to think that a TV-movie or mini-series of LOTR, though closer to the book would have lost its epicness and half of its budget.

I've wondered if a mini-series format would be better. It certainly worked well for Pride and Prejudice, none of the movies can match the 6 hr miniseries. Although I think the 3 book format does have some significance to the structure of the story, I think it could be dispensed with. The problem is where else to break it up. I don't think 6 smaller movies would really work, as the books don't seem to have the right episodic quality to them. I don't know, but perhaps a division into a mini-series would work. Someday...

@Armchairgeneral

If they make a six-part mini-series, no one is gonna watch 80% of part VI

... but I am open to it.