Thread: Tactical leaders

Patton and Rommel

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Patton and Rommel

Yeah, but I usually have them in the greatest generals category. I'm thinking of great leaders at the squad through battalion level. I'm not aware that Patton or Rommel were standout platoon leaders. Maybe they were, but I've never heard it mentioned.

Dick Winters, on the other hand, was nominated for the Medal of Honor and awarded the Distinguished Service Cross as a young lieutenant. This was for leading an assault on a German gun battery on D-Day morning. The battery consisted of four guns and was guarded by a German infantry platoon. Winters had 12 men, what amounted to a squad. They routed the infantry platoon and disabled all four guns.

Things like that are what I meant. Leaders of small unit actions.

I'm sorry that I was not clear. Patton (and Rommel) view recee as "what's in front of my binoculars." They were both essentially company level commanders with the knowledge depth to lead a division. In short, they can exploit a tactical advantage for strategic purposes. I point to Patton's swing north during the Battle of the Buldge and Rommel swing in Eygpt.

Col. David Sterling (LRDG/ SAS fame) and Col. T.E Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia)

LtCol Lettow-Vorbeck. Tactical AND strategic genius.

There are so many "unknowns" that would qualify. Fine leaders of men, intelligent and skilled in the art of war. Men only known to soldiers under their own command and maybe to the enemy in their theater of operations, but destined to never be recognized beyond that.

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

There are so many "unknowns" that would qualify. Fine leaders of men, intelligent and skilled in the art of war. Men only known to soldiers under their own command and maybe to the enemy in their theater of operations, but destined to never be recognized beyond that.

Exactly. It sort of amounts to a "best you've heard of" question, or your personal favorite, for the reasons you stated.

The ones I listed, Geronimo, Robert Rogers, Daniel Morgan, Richard Winters, Tony Herbert, and David Hackworth, are some of my favorites, and reasonably well known to people who like to read about small unit actions.

Can you vote for yourself Just kidding! I'm just happy to have all my fingers and toes still

Simply the best.

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

There are so many "unknowns" that would qualify. Fine leaders of men, intelligent and skilled in the art of war. Men only known to soldiers under their own command and maybe to the enemy in their theater of operations, but destined to never be recognized beyond that.

Yeah, yeah...just tell us which nazi you'd most like to blow, and we'll record your vote.

Originally Posted by Rifleman

...David Hackworth...

David Hackworth so dishonored himself wrt the things he said about Michael Durant that as far as i'm concerned, he barely even qualifies as an American.

This is not to say he wasn't a crack leader at some point. All i know is that now, i wouldn't spit on him were he on fire.

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

I'm sorry that I was not clear. Patton (and Rommel) view recee as "what's in front of my binoculars." They were both essentially company level commanders with the knowledge depth to lead a division. In short, they can exploit a tactical advantage for strategic purposes. I point to Patton's swing north during the Battle of the Buldge and Rommel swing in Eygpt.

Sir,
I found your comment about being company commanders with knowledge depth extremely intriguing. Could you as the Brigadier would say "amplify" ?

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Simply the best.


Yeah, yeah...just tell us which nazi you'd most like to blow, and we'll record your vote.


David Hackworth so dishonored himself wrt the things he said about Michael Durant that as far as i'm concerned, he barely even qualifies as an American.

This is not to say he wasn't a crack leader at some point. All i know is that now, i wouldn't spit on him were he on fire.

I wrote this about him in this thread:

One of my best friends (retired Army brigadier general) knew him in Vietnam. He didn't have a high opinion of him ("shameless self-promoter"), but acknowledged that his troops DID love him.

I felt he was an egomaniac that believed he was never wrong, and just really loved the role of contrarian and iconoclast a bit too much. He liked to paint a picture of himself that always glorified his exploits, and he made sure that IN HINDSIGHT, he had been right all along, but the idiots just wouldn't listen to him. And if they wouldn't listen to him, they were automatically idiots.

But there is no doubt that he was a natural combat leader that knew how to balance his mission with his unit's welfare. He loved soldiers and the Army, and had the integrity to throw away a career to tell the Army what it needed to hear, but was unwilling to believe about itself. THAT is something I can respect.

A complex and valuable man with some large flaws, he was a human allegory of America itself.

RIP, Colonel. Call the roll.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

David Hackworth so dishonored himself wrt the things he said about Michael Durant that as far as i'm concerned, he barely even qualifies as an American.

This is not to say he wasn't a crack leader at some point. All i know is that now, i wouldn't spit on him were he on fire.

I agree that his comments about CWO Durant were mean spirited and cheap, and there was no excuse for it. But like you alluded to, that can't erase the fact that he was a great tactical leader at battalion level and below. Four Distinguished Service Crosses, that says something. It doesn't make him a great person but it does say something about his abilities as a tactical leader.

For all of the hoopala that surrounds him and his service in Vietnam, I feel that he didn't have any better idea than anyone else about how to win the Vietnam War strategically. Just better ideas about how to kill a lot of the enemy without having his own troops suffer as many casualties.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Yeah, yeah...just tell us which nazi you'd most like to blow, and we'll record your vote.

Now did I even mention a German in this thread? Please stop the attacks.

General Sir James Hope Grant. No question.