Thread: Tactical leaders

I'm afraid that you're the one who misunderstood me and continues to do so. Bluesman understands my statement perfectly.

I think Bluesman is just being (too) nice in the interests of board harmony to be honest.

I don't think i misinterpreted you at all...

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

"I find it interesting that those who have the "never forgive, never forget" mentality are merely continuing the hate and bigotry that the Nazis started."

I clearly stated that it was foolish to forgive and forget, that it violated the most basic principle of learning from one's mistakes, and you clearly stated that those who feel the way Blue and i do are "continuing the hate and bigotry that the Nazis started."
In effect, you called me a hateful bigot, and by extension...a Nazi.

So no, i'm not about to chuckle that off as some misunderstanding, when it clearly was not. You've defended nazis MANY times on this forum, and frankly, it's about time you've been called out for it.

Never have I defended Nazis. It's impossible to do that as their guilt is not in doubt. However, I've fought against the allegation that every member of the German race during the Third Reich was a Nazi.

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

Never have I defended Nazis. It's impossible to do that as their guilt is not in doubt. However, I've fought against the allegation that every member of the German race during the Third Reich was a Nazi.

Every member of the German nation that did not at least indirectly oppose the nazis was fit for firebombing as far as i'm concerned.

Carrying out the policies(or tacitly approving of them or being apathetic to them) is JUST AS BAD as if they were your policies to begin with.

WWII Germany was a nation of murderers, from the lowliest Hitler Youth participant right on up the line to the Fuhrer.

There is no defense for any of them.

And that's a fact.

We all know the old saying "All that's required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"....but i'll tell you that saying should be modified to:

Those who do nothing to stop evil are not good men, they're moral cowards and just as culpable as the evil-doers themselves.

It confuses me that you say that a German soldier's duty in WWII was to abandon family, country, and duty and defect. How is that possible, especially coming from you, an ex-soldier?

If you please, please continue our discussion by PM'ing me. I think we've hijacked this and other threads long enough.

Originally Posted by leibstandarte10

It confuses me that you say that a German soldier's duty in WWII was to abandon family, country, and duty and defect. How is that possible, especially coming from you, an ex-soldier?

How do you figure that starting and executing a global war of aggression in order to steal land and anhillate whole race(s) of people that had done nothing to the German people is "doing your duty?"

Hmmm?

And do you think for ONE SECOND that me or any other Western soldier on this board would do the same?

I think not.

That's all i have to say on this subject, i see no need to continue. I've made my position excruciatingly clear.

As have I. One last thing though.

Almost all historians have concluded that the German populace and even front-line soldiers were pretty much kept in the dark about what went on behind the concentration camp fences. Whether they really were ignorant to the fact or if they were just lying will never be known. However, what is known is that when they learned about the concentration camps after Germany had been defeated, the lot of them were mortified. Once again, an unsubstantiated assertion, but that's all we have.

Another issue to consider was that the penalties for desertion and disobeying orders was far heavier in the German Army than it was in most Western Armies, especially later in the war with the "flying court-martials". Consequences could also affect the soldier's family.

So my point is, would the average German be willing to risk his life and the lives of his loved ones on a whim, if they were really ignorant to the Holocaust? Would he be willing to refuse to take orders and to defect, abandoning his loved ones to an unknown fate? I would say no.